BJean

Would you vote for Lara Bush? Everyone raves about her being such a sweet school teacher and all. She's supposedly the voice of reason in that family, etc. Is Lara Bush your idea of a competent woman who could get your vote? Please tell us one woman's name as an example of a woman that you would like to see nominated for president so you could vote for her.

You are more than welcome. I'm sure glad you're one of our moderators. I wish we really were sitting across the table from each other with our cups of mocha java!

You go, Sunta!

I just got here. It's very interesting to read all of the posts. Most people have said that they would vote for a woman. Whether it is Hillary or someone else. My question is this: Is there ANY woman who would be good enough for you to actually vote for? I don't believe that for most of you (and the rest of Americans) there is a woman who you would actually go out and vote for. I know you don't WANT to hold women in lower esteem than men, but I believe that you do.

Alexandra: I love your outlook. Very refreshing on so many levels. Arguing with someone who is so scared of going to hell that it dominates their thinking and reasoning is a big waste of time. (They must have done a whole lot of sinning for the issue to be so important.) Arguing with someone who thinks that because they have embraced certain passages of the Bible, and they no longer question the validity of divine intervention being the source of the writings in the Bible and because they say that they embrace all that they think that Jesus stands for and that Jesus died for their sins, and that since they have been "born again" and have a close personal relationship with God and have their pass into heaven, they seem to believe that any and everything they say and do is right. (Or at least forgiven, which may be an important distinction.) Any of the those same people who fear "eternal damnation in hell" and who believe that the "second coming" is drawing near are like Chicken Little. We should get out of their way so they can run around the yard flapping and squawking to their little heart's content. Afterall, what's wrong with people being good for goodness' sake? I am much more impressed with the state of your heart than of some Christian's I've encountered.

I'm down 1 lb. for the week. Did 2, 1 hour sessions of water aerobics. I have bounced back and forth with about 2 lbs. all week. One day elation, the next day disappointment. I have eaten some things that were "firsts" since the surgery (that I shouldn't have). I thought I needed a fill week before last, and I think I could still use some "tweaking" too. Or a fast upper cut to the lower jaw. LOL.

LOL. A little kitty lookin' to get fixed. Nice. I read your post tonight. I liked it. I don't think we're dealing with an intellect much higher than a stump, but I guess if it's something that needs to be done. a?

"pure-white-driven-snow" in the same sentence as "politicians"? Oxymoron. The UN is functioning these days in a climate composed of countries who no longer choose to kowtow to the U.S.'s demands to solve world issues our way. So that makes it corrupt? We used to be a country who was very influencial in the U.N. We've not been going there to solve or help solve issues that arise. We're going in there and telling them that they MUST do things our way, or the highway. They're laughing at us. They're uniting against us. So that makes it corrupt? I'm only trying to make a small point. I am sure that there are definitely factions in the UN that are terribly corrupt. But I am not sure that casting aspersions on the entire UN is a productive approach to attaining peace in the world.

Betsyjane: You are absolutely NOT alone in your beliefs (at least the ones that you listed). I'm with you, babe. If God were designing a woman using the theory of Intelligent Design... he'd design you. T_O_M: Gosh you're a breath of fresh air. I enjoy (almost always) every word you write. I do appreciate your viewpoint and your manner of expressing yourself. Laurend: OMG, I don't have time to wade through every word of your post. It is fascinating and relevant but LONG!!

Green: I stayed up too late last night reading that thread. Like a nut, I allowed myself to get pulled into the fray. The dude isn't seriously trying to win anyone over to Jesus. He's wanting a fight. The dirtier the better. It's a colossal waste of time, but even so, that can be fun. With him, it just is not fun. Some people don't play fair when their arguments are stale or weak. He, like a couple of others I've noticed, when defending lame posts goes on the attack and accuses others of the very thing he is guilty of. That is frustrating when there is a time lapse between posts. So I wish everyone would ignore him and if he jumps in anywhere else, they continue to ignore him. It would teach him the meaning of the word frustration. (Only one of the words he needs to learn, others being grace, dignity, love, respect, tenderness, empathy, warmth, and did I mention respect?) P.S. Your "shallow" stabs at humor and your "poor anger management skills" are exactly what I like about you!

No Ron. The hatefulness displayed here has been mostly hatefulness on your part. Just because you exclaim that the phrase "... crawled out of the woodwork" is a fair characterization of others in your "defense" of your faith, doesn't mean that everyone here agrees with your characterization. You have so much to learn. You will never learn it if you continue to have one set of rules for yourself and another set for your opponents in this debate. You will never learn it if you don't really listen. You're so busy thinking up offensive things to retort with exlamations and exaggeration in your writing, it is obvious that you have no plan to really win anyone over to Christ here. You're just having fun slinging mud and barbs. For you, the more hostile it gets, the better. "Have you joined the flat earth society yet?" "wackos and nutjobs" "do you realize how stupid this argument is" - all things that you put here on this particular page of this thread. There are many others on some of the earlier pages. I guess as long as one of us is willing to give you an opportunity to voice your miserable thoughts, you're not going to bow out gracefully. Buh bye.

Oops. I'm sorry. I thought you were serious. Like George Michael said in his popular song... "ya gotta have faith."

I just spent the past very long few hours reading what's been going on here. Good Lord! I have met a lot of Christians who believe that they must witness their faith to others. Never, never have I been exposed to such a complete and utter pompous self-righteous, insulting, name-calling person as I have here. This person who claims to be all knowing, completely spiritual and Christian is an embarrassment to his "faith". For him to refer to some of the women here as "Darling" and "Sweetheart" among other things, simply provides positive proof that he doesn't deserve the energy or time that has been put in here to rebuff him for his indelicate and incredibly condescending remarks. I have a feeling that we've all been had! This is obviously some kid who is having fun getting people all riled up. He's found a subject that people have strong feelings about, used his few buzz words to push peoples' buttons and off we go. This guy, whoever he is, is certainly no intellectual. He does not deserve respect from anyone here which he obviously hasn't received. But let's cut him loose. He's a complete and utter fool. If anyone gives him anymore time, I'm ashamed of them. We should all just be laughing at his stupidity and his proclivity to show his a$$.

Gadgetlady: You missed my point about the "credible facts" that point to creationism. They are belief based. Not science based. I have not just heard someone talk about it and I haven't just been exposed to a few books about it. All aspects of religion, Christian and others, have held a whole lot of interest for me. Therefore I have spent lots of my time reading, thinking, researching and listening. The fact that you think I am uninformed goes exactly to the point of my earlier reply to your posts. But thanks for wanting to share.

The policy to go to war in Iraq was never right. It still isn't right. It still isn't improving anything for anybody. Congress continues to devote money to the effort because we cannot leave our military high and dry. They are there, we must give them what they need to survive. The day that President Bush bombed Baghdad was a sorry, sorry day. It was a horrific sight to bring into my living room on my TV. The fact that some people thought it was correct (politically correct) to support our President at that time didn't make it right then and doesn't make it right today. If we could do the job that he says we can do, of cleaning up the country from the in-fighting, establish a proper government, and rebuild, then that is what we should do. We owe it to them, unfortunately.

Gee laurend, you've just pulled us back from our reverie. Dang 'cause I've been wildly amused by Green's antics too. Rather made my day in fact.

I have lived all across this country. From a very early age right up to this moment, I have had creationism crammed down my throat. Unlike laurend, I haven't had anyone EVER cram the idea of evolution down my throat. EVER. Not even in college. It has always been presented as a theory to me. Most theologians, priests, ministers and born again Christians of all walks insist that creationism is the way the truth and the light. I have never read or spoken with anyone who can provide as much proof of creationism as I have heard or read about the scientific possibility of evolution. No one on the side of evolution cares one whit whether I believe in that theory or not. Contrarily, some Christians think that people who do not believe in creationism are wrong. Creationism is based on belief. All of the evidence points to that. That people can manipulate words and say that certain "data" points to proof of creationism, is simply part of a belief system. Most of us have been brainwashed from a very early age to believe that whatever our minister, Sunday school teacher, Priest or other religious person in our lives presents to them, is absolute truth. To expect us to give up our powers of reasoning and rationale is quite frankly, a much more shocking bit of propaganda than any data I've read or heard about the theory of evolution. Before anyone should jump to conclusions, I am a Christian.

Aw, Gadgetlady. So someone feels passionately about the topic. That's her perrogative. I have a very strong feeling that Sunta (I think it was) just disagreed strongly and did not mean any harm to you personally with what she said. You obviously feel very strongly about the subject as well. That's cool. But just because someone disagrees with you in an open forum in a very passionate way, it doesn't mean that they are trying to bash you personally. Are you sure that it isn't just that you're offended that people here aren't buying the concept of creationsim in spite of all your hard work and the large volume of data that you've posted? It's okay. Really. You didn't take us to raise.

The reason I asked is because many people I come in contact with say that they do not consider the platform of the party at all. They don't think that the parties have much power and so that doesn't enter into their voting decision-making. I'm trying very hard to understand how and why people have come to that way of thinking. Thanks very much for your input!

Gadgetlady: I say who wins. For me. Obviously others can decide that you or someone else wins. For them. Personally, I vote for TOM. I find him to have the most credibility and most sensible theories. As for someone who doesn't post here, what do they have to do with ANYTHING? That's strictly between you and them. If they wanted their information put into this thread, they'd post it. We're probably thousands of miles away, we're anonymous. How can we harm them? Why do you or they think that we mean harm to anyone? God forbid. Someone is reading something between the lines that just isn't intended.

Mommy0105: Does the platform of the party that the person belongs to enter into your decision at all? Or do you base your decision to vote for a candidate just on what you've heard him say or what you've read that lets you know what he plans to do while in office?

Yep. I'm afraid TOM wins this one Gadgelady. You can count me as one of those "...mainstream molecular biology and zoology" folks who are still "...seriously enthusiastic supporters of Darwinism." (To quote your source.)

P.S. We're not talking about wanting other countries to love us, Mouse. We're talking about our being able to inhabit this planet in somekind of peaceful coexistence. Bombing the crap out of people is a temporary fix and it harms our own country in the process. If things are pushed to the limit and we have no choice, then that is our choice. If there are other ways to deal with bad people, especially ways that are beneficial to the world at large, then it should be incumbent upon us to lead the way.

Yep. I believe my grandchildren will not only speak English, but they will sing Cumbaya as well. That is, if they don't have to go into a senseless war and get their A$$es shot off. Some grandmothers haven't been so lucky, have they? You still have not answered the question of how our involvement for the past several years has made us more free, safer or done anything for my grandchildren. Nobody is arguing that terrorism has or has not happened anywhere or everywhere in the world. You are so right... this is a non-debate. Furthermore I am not surprised that Mousecrazy is still having trouble understanding that we do not (if I make speak for more than myself here) endorse terrorism. We hate terrorism. We believe that we should do all that we can to prevent terrorism. If going to war would prevent terrorism we would be all for going to war. We are not people who are just anti-war at all costs. We are not peaceniks. We believe in using intelligence and working with people to solve problems. If we cannot solve problems diplomatically, we try to resolve them without bloodshed. If someone threatens us or our safety, we believe we should do all we can to protect ourselves. What we have been trying over, and over and over in this thread to explain, is that we do not believe that the war in Iraq was done for any of the reasons I've just mentioned. We believe that many, many people have been killed because of the war in Iraq, both Americans and citizens of Iraq and elsewhere. We believe that their deaths have been in vain. We believe that we have been lied to and that Bush's motives are not pure.

Looks like BJean has missed all the action. I'm off to read the thread. I need a few chuckles.