BJean

Gosh Jack, I really appreciate your response. I agree with some of the points you make about diplomacy often winding up with us or others in some kind of war anyway. No argument here on that. As I posted earlier, if war is needed, then war is what we'll do. However, I don't think that bad events or bad people should always make us pursue war or keep us from working for peace. If we give up on living in a peaceful world we won't ever have one, and there is good chance that Americans will lose life and limb for what isn't necessarily a direct threat to our freedom. Death and destruction can happen for much less reason that that if we too quickly abandon the possibility of negotiations and diplomacy. This war is one example of that. That is one reason why many of us believe that the BushCo tenure in the White House is different and worse than those of most other periods in history.

I hear you Heathergurl. It's a little early yet, really. Yesterday I heard that Hillary announced that she is definitely a candidate and that she plans to win. I wish her voice weren't so strident. I want to like her because I am a Demo, but I think I may have the same problem that a lot of other women have with women in politics and business, and that is women can become very harsh, in the process of having to battle their way to the top. I used to work for a woman who was more like a man than a woman. She used worse language than any men I'd ever worked with. One appealing thing about Nancy Pelosi is that she is so soft-spoken. Hillary is as qualified as most anyone, men or women. She has done a lot to support women in the world. She's participated all around the world in causes for women. She has been in the White House, knows how it runs, how to get things done, what not to do (!!!), and has Senate experience as well as experience at the Governor level. She's been a Republican and a Democrat. Which is a good thing, I guess? She leans a little more to the Republican side than most Democrats would like, but if that makes her moderate, I'm in favor of it. I just wish I liked her personality more. With all that she's been through, both with Bill and their detractors, she pretty dang tough. I think one reason Obama is so appealing to people right now is because he is so soft-spoken and low key. After having so many harsh things happening to us in the U.S., we could use someone who seems a little less aggressive. Anyone agree or disagree?

Mouse this is an open forum. You aren't butting in. Ever. Those are, of course, good points. And they are reasons why you and Jack feel the way you do. You have told us over and over. We have said over and over why we pray that there can be some peaceful end to the war in Iraq. We would like to think that there are some people with enough intelligence to represent the United States, who can deal with those people, even knowing what they are, to stop the killing. To stop the bombing. To put an end to the loss of American lives. Are there no qualified people willing to try? It's okay if it doesn't work immediately. No one expects a quick and easy solution. But if we just keep saying that War is the only answer to dealing with extremeists, we will have to build lots and lots more bombs. The killing will never end. We just don't think that more and more killing will bring an end to it. We think that either we need to stop killing and get the heck out, or wipe out the entire Middle East. Completely. No little cells in caves. No civilians. Flatten it into a vast wasteland. Then war might work.

Thanks, Mouse. I was under the impression that the Geneva Convention pertained to all prisoners of war. My bad. Since this is about terrorists, we can grab suspects and do whatever our laws say we can to them. Oops. That can't be what we're doing. We don't have laws that say we can hold prisoners indefinitely without charging them. Our laws say that we cannot torture people. We must be operating under one of the recently enacted Bush laws. Those would probably come right after the laws he enacted that replace the ones saying the government can't wiretap, discriminate and the other stuff. What you and Jack seem to be telling us is that because there are terrorists all over the world and because of 9/11, all bets are off and forget diplomacy, forget conventional rules of the land, do whatever Bush says is the only way to combat terrorism. Afterall, we don't want those Muslims coming over here and making us get on our knees and pray to Allah. Thank goodness we have someone with balls who won't let them get us.

I'm happy now!

Hey Jack. Whoa there. I did scan your document. It was of interest to me. I suppose I did not read it with the same eyes that perhaps you thought I should. I didn't mean to offend you or be thick-headed. I was just wanting to know if you think that diplomacy NEVER works and I wanted to know if you think that war is the best and perhaps the ONLY way for the U.S. to resolve conflicts. From everything that I have read that you've posted, it seems to me that you believe strongly that diplomacy doesn't work. And whenever someone posts something about the negativity of this war, you give examples of why it is the only way to resolve the issues of jihad as it relates to the U.S. or perhaps anywhere in the world. In fact, you give example after example of reasons why you believe that those of us who are against this war and those of us who favor diplomacy are wrong. What I'm wondering is if you think that War is the only way and Diplomacy has no chance EVER of solving any world problems? I shouldn't really have asked for examples. I was just wondering if your views are all encompassing.

P.S. I am not "blaming everyone" else for the tackiness or rancor of this thread. I am blaming YOU.

"As for this BJean character." Heh,heh, heh. That character is checking in, Ron, the Jesus imitator. I have never posted that I am an atheist. You insulted and irritated a good friend of mine after I said I would quit you. I felt compelled to give you some of what you're giving. You can accuse me of being the perp all you want. It doesn't make it so. Everyone can read. I am not worried in the least about making a fool of myself. I just wish you were a tiny bit concerned about your image. That would probably have changed the tone of this entire worthless, meaningless thread.

So the answer to my first question would be, no? The answer to my second question would be, yes? I just want to make sure I understand your lengthy answer. And to answer your question, no, I have not read the Geneva Convention. I have a pretty good grip of some of the items, but I do not have a copy in my hip pocket. I could go online and find it and read it but why bother? Our administration doesn't believe it is valid anymore.

It bothers me because the thought of that is scary. How can you possibly know if I believe in Jesus? You have no earthly idea what my beliefs are. I haven't told you because it is none of your business. You are not someone who I believe I could trust with personal information about my beliefs or my politics or anything else that I value. You're an agitator. And I am here to agitate back. I'm having a good time. Are you?

Why do you keep referring to yourself as if you have something in common with Jesus?

Katt: It's good to hear from you even if you are not happy with your band situation. I know it is very rough, what you are going through. But although I don't want to make light of your problems with the band, please notice that many of us September Bandsters have had trouble the past couple of weeks with our lack of weight loss. When I've gone through the grieving process, several times, I get this huge knot in my stomach. I want to eat and I do eat, but it is painful. That knot sits in the pit of my stomach wanting to scream at the pain I'm sending down. I don't think anyone can understand it unless they experience it. Please don't worry too much right now about dieting. Your nervous system has to be compromised right now. Stress can do terrible things. Give yourself some time to work through all this. Love that pup and cry as much and as often as you can. It is very cathartic. We do pray for you.

Jack can you think of (or are you even willing to think of) one incident where diplomatic negotiations have been successful in the past? Is the only way that the U.S. has made any achievements or resolved any conflicts, through war?

Mousecrazy: Lynn Cheney? Really? What do you like about her? What do you think qualifies her for president? Did you like the idea of Elizabeth Dole? Do you really think she was/is qualified?

Heathergurl: No, I didn't mean would you vote for Lara Bush over Hillary Clinton. I just meant if you could think of a woman that you would like to see as President, who is it? That you would vote for Lara Bush over Hillary Clinton only tells me that you are probably a Republican. It doesn't tell me if you really would support a woman for president if you sincerely had to make a choice.

Mousecrazy: Your statements: "I know what killing the enemy means" and "... political solution...I have no idea what that means." are certainly welcomed by me. I appreciate your honesty and your views about the UN and our participation there. Thank you so very much for stepping up to the plate and saying what you really think. I don't have all the answers either, and I know that I am idealistic in my approach to all things political. I am just too much of a woman, mother and grandmother to believe that war is ever the answer. How are we different from Saddam Hussein, except in numbers and scale, if we use deadly force to change the world to our benefit?

No, no, no, you've got me all wrong! I didn't mean to offend you, Ron! If you think that's what I meant by what I said, I apologize! I have been learning so much here by what you've said. You may not like me or what I've said, but I certainly am not upset or offended by anything you've said, in the least. God knows my intentions. God knows me, just like I know God. I am very happy with my beliefs. If you misunderstand or your beliefs are very different from mine, that is your prerrogative, of course. I am not trying to sway you or convince you of anything. I just know that you would be a much happier and more fulfilled person if you would believe that name-calling and being rude to people is not what Jesus would do if he were in your shoes trying to convince people that they are wrong. Idiots! If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it must be a duck. Woof, woof.

Ron, baby: This is to you. If I have in some small way been able to get under your skin (as I apparently have) as much as you've gotten under the skin of many people here, then I've done my job. I can leave here now happy in the knowledge that you have bristled enough under the weight of my comments to completely show the depth and breadth of your brain power.

Alexandra: I'm glad you are carrying the torch for many of us who prefer not to communicate with this clown, but who are having trouble turning away from this thread. His is way too reminicent of the voices of propaganda I've been exposed to all of my life. You have my respect for not backing down or giving in. In fact, this is finally getting pretty humorous. Thanks!

Woo-hoo. Score another one for Alexandra!

If the Republicans can beat John Kerry and Al Gore, they can sure beat Hillary and Obama. John McCain could never be elected to the presidency without conventional Republican backing and support. He will always have that master's hand up his butt. That's why voting Republican or Democratic is important, no matter how much people would like to believe to the contrary.

That people need guidance is the point, really. If we didn't, the Bible probably would have never been compiled and handed down through the ages. Churches wouldn't be so large and exquisitely decorated. Needy people wouldn't be taken in by some of the bad, so-called religious, people speaking from pulpits today.

Do you think that there is any, ANY approach to the problems in the world, in the Middle East specifically, that can be used to resolve issues, other than utilizing weapons?

MK Olsen is dying. She's still functioning, like Karen Carpenter did until practically the end of her life. Unless MK can get a grip, she just won't make it to spend all of her millions. How very sad. Jodie you seem to be totally self-obsessed right now - especially about losing weight. We all go through it sometimes. But it is unhealthy and counterproductive to our getting what we want. Think about this: you are going in for an interview for the best job in the world, the pay is incredible and it's everything that you want in life right now. Now think about how will you prepare. When you go in for the interview, what will you be thinking? Will you be worried if they think you're fat? Will you worry that they will ask you a question that you won't be able to answer well? Will you worry that they won't offer you the top of the pay scale? Will you worry that the other people competing for the job are prettier, smarter, or more capable than you are? Going for that company interview is, in a way, sort of like trying to get a friend, a boyfriend or anything you really want that takes effort on your part. What you have to understand upfront is what it is that you bring to the table that should make the company want you. These can be your education, your personality, your way of expressing yourself, your energy, your ability to get things done, your willingness to give up some free time when overtime is necessary, and your ability to work well with others. All those things are WAY more important than your looks, whether you're looking for a job, a friend or a boyfriend. For you to be prepared for a successful relationship with a "company", you have to know how to present yourself and what is expected of you for the job, but more importantly you have to go in and find out if that company is really the company you think it is and where you wish to invest most of your time. You have to interview THEM. If you approach it from that direction, you will intently listen to what THEY are saying during the interview, you won't be obsessing over your appearance or your answers. When YOU do the interview, you will be hanging on their every word and action and you will know exactly how to respond, automatically. If you want the job, your subconscious has the right stuff and is ready to go. You just can't get in the way of it doing its' job by obsessing about all the wrong stuff. If you were going to interview someone, would you think that a person who is defensive, aggressively loud, self-conscious, intent on relating a story or notion that is not relevant to them, or someone who doesn't appear to care about the welfare of the company would be the right person for the job? You may have everything that a company (or a boy or a girlfriend or a teacher) wants and needs, but if you are too busy worrying about how YOU look or feel, instead of listening to THEM, watching their behavior, understanding the signals and information that they are putting out, you can miss the boat completely.

Emminent domaine sucks big ones. A highway that connects Mexico, U.S. and Canada is a good one. I'm in favor of the Americas coming together to help each other and benefit from each other. What are you afraid of?