BJean

Oops. you type must faster than I - probably think much faster too. You answered my post. Not my question, but you did respond. The thing that several people who post here do not seem to grasp is that no one is required or even compelled to cite reasons or backup data for what they believe. Anyone can post anything, however passionate or dispassionate or right or wrong or indifferent. If you choose to ignore or take their stated beliefs with a grain of salt or less, say you think it's as important a pimple on a gnat's butt, that is your prerogative. Everyone can inisist on proof, but no one is mandated to provide it. Too often the proof that is submitted to back up people's statements here is full of bias and totally open to interpretation. If you are trying to win people over to your side of an argument, then it is probably necessary and important, but it is not a rule and no one should be condemned for choosing not to play the game that way. I have my beliefs and if you choose not to join me in those beliefs, it does not harm me one way or the other. I just enjoy posting and exchanging thoughts and ideas. Sorry if it doesn't jibe with your way of doing business here.

Please disregard my just previous post. TOM said it much better than I and lisah25 is a very pleasant soul, whom I wholeheartedly respect. I don't believe that one has any credibility when one says, I respect other people's beliefs and then that person comdemns the other person to hell (oh yeah, THEY aren't doing the comdemning, God is!!!!) If you can't hear God's voice here (through Ron), then you are doomed!!!!!

Ron if someone here believed in the Qur'an and all of its' teachings (not that anyone posting here does, but for the sake of argument we'll pretend that someone does), and they belabored the point that the God of Islam is the same God that you worship, and you disagreed with them, but they would not let it go and kept insisting, in a louder and more coarse voice that their God is the same God because the Qua'ran proves it to be true and furthermore that your Bible cannot be taken literally because it is written by too many different voices and translated too many times, would you take it as an affront to your own beliefs and be insulted by their demeanor, appalled at their insistence of having proof for something that you believe is untrue? Would you be mystified by the fact that they continue to argue until they're blue in the face and get so angry that they make so many mistakes in their writing and spelling that their discourse is often difficult to read and understand and would you think that having them repeat over and over that you are an infidel, are doomed to hell and that they know that it is a fact because the Qur'an proves and promises them that they are right, would those arguments do one thing to change your mind about your belief in the Bible or that Jesus is your Savior? No? Well then, why are you continuing this discourse? For many of us it seems that you are hell-bent on trying to make yourself feel good about you, or perphaps you just like the sound of your own arguments and the more often you can repeat it, the better you like it. It also seems that the more strident the contest, the happier you are.

Good Morning everyone. I am down 1 lb. for the week with 2 one-hour exercise sessions. I had a fill last week but I think that he just put back what he took out. I feel practically the same except I am not quite as hungry as I was before the fill. I am pretty disappointed that I am not more restricted. I do not particularly enjoy having holes poked in my tummy. I am paying this guy to take care of me though and I'm going to trust his judgement a while longer. I finally hit the sevens (even though just barely) and I must say that I am very excited about that!

About kidney stones: be afraid, be very afraid! I've had them twice in my life. You do not want to take any chances. Both times I had been dieting - although not on high protein diets. I was not drinking water like I do now. I also lived on the desert in Arizona, which the doctor said makes you more prone to kidney stones if you don't stay hydrated. You are smart to keep the water coming... and going, of course!

Ron I would love for you use whatever peaceful means you'd like to communicate with someone who says they don't believe in God, the Bible is just a bunch of stories, and if there is a God why doesn't He do this or that. I do not think you should embarrass God by losing your temper. You should know that trying to force something down someone's throat is not the way to get them to believe your message. You should not be offended in any way by someone who does not believe in God or His message. Why would you be? You know God exists, you have strong faith in your ministry, you know that God has reasons for sparing some children and taking others early or for crippling another. You have nothing to apologize for when talking to non-believers, you have no reason to lose your temper and use exclamation marks, hard words and the rest. You should be ABOVE all that. Your message will be much more believable, and be inspirational to others if it is delivered continuously in an inoffensive, and in fact, loving manner. On the other hand if you are looking for a scrap and it makes you feel better to provoke people so that you can use, for your own edification, God's scriptures to make yourself feel superior, then continue on the path you've chosen. P.S. Spelling frustration, FISTration speaks for itself.

Unfortunately that mispelling of frustration may have been what we call a "Freudian slip".

lethea_g: I am not giving God a lashing. I am not an "unbeliever." If I have said something that sounds personal it's because it is personal, it is not criticism of spritualism or the worship of God. I am offended, as a true believer by this particular messenger. I am offended because it seems to me that he uses his spirituality, his message, his ministry, to be offensive to non-believers and if anyone is offending the Bible's message, I believe it is the offensive messenger. Not the Bible or God. I find this tactic of spreading the Word to be offensive enough that it would be wrong of me to not speak up. It is very important to me personally for anyone who is questioning the Bible, the existence of God or another's ministry not to be offended by the messenger and confuse that person's rantings with the message of the Bible. I believe it is incumbent upon me to teach the offending teacher.

I think you shouldn't call people fools and then expect people to respect you. I don't think you should whine about being attacked and then attack others. It isn't necessary to initiate conversations here. We're all free to jump in anytime we would like to repsond to a post. You are extreme in your approach to telling folks about your beliefs and in fact you go so far as to tell people that they are ABSOLUTELYwrong in THEIR beliefs, and that they are going to hell. Threatening hell to non-believers makes you seem vindictive and vengeful. When you are able to voice your opinions and beliefs and you have people who jump in to quickly tell you how right and wonderful you are, you can be incredibly kind and effusive to them. But actually, if you really want an open discussion as you said you do, you should welcome people like TOM and others who disagree with you because it gives you the opportunity to cite all of your scriptures and use all of the techniques you've mastered in your pursuit of ridiculing non-belivers. Is your goal to lecture here and not truly inspire a debate? If so, perhaps if you did not not speak in such absolutes and did not disrespect others here, you would not generate such vehement dissent. People will not always tell you how brilliant you are and what a blessing you are. You say you want to discuss the subject that you brought up, but you constantly get furious and lash out in very hateful ways toward anyone with whom you disagree. I've been here from the beginning and that IS the way it is.

Guess I'm out!

Looks like a one-on-one debate is quite effective here and both of you are having a good time and respectfully reading each other's data (presumably). I am impressed and I am learning in the process. I really appreciate gadgetlady taking the time to present some names that I asked for. It will help me out a lot. TOM, I know some people think you are way "out there" in left field somewhere, but I think you are very down to earth and thoughtful and I love the way you used an illustration of how some viewpoints come into being. When you study a subject in-depth you almost always can find a case of someone stretching, stretching, stretching to make their point more credible. Fortunately there are people like you who are smart enough to dig really deep.

Serious, I'm glad you're serious. We don't allow no typos here. This is a thread to end all threads. No typos, no bad language, no gramatical errors. Nut balls beware!! Only pirates with the utmost intelligence and black teeth are allowed. You want PROOF, we'll get your stinking proof! :speechles

Yeah, I hear ya. When there's pain involved, it shouldn't take a person long to learn a lesson. That's what I'm sayin'!

TAMI WE LOVE YOU! You're an inspriration to all of us. Plus you are so upbeat and do such a good job of staying on the exercise wagon. My doc and my dietician both emphasized my getting a minimum of 60 grams of protein a day or I definitely would lose my hair. They both observed that I can't spare a strand! They also told me that if I do start losing my hair, up the protein and not to worry. It WILL come back! Hang in there, you've got the best of both worlds - quick weight loss and luscious hair. You rat.

Hee, hee, hee, Yeah, I want my cheesy-poofs! Shut-up and go make me a pie.

All righty then. Call me stupid. Or slow.

Early on in this discussion I said that Osama and Hillary probably couldn't get elected in 2008. The things that have been brought out here make me more convinced, not less. Maybe that will change. We'll just have to watch it unfold.

Well I haven't honestly looked at her voting record. But I will before I vote. I appreciate the feedback!

gadgetlady: Would you do us both a favor? You seem to really like to quote sources and cite references and give us websites to read to help us understand your perspective. I would really appreciate it if you would help me a little by just listing some of the names of the famous (or well-known enough for us to be able to check them out), scientists who have become creationists? I'm having people in tonight and I don't have time to run through all those web addresses you've listed. Just 50 or so, names, please? Out of thousands, it should be an easy task for you.

TommyO: You didn't listen. I thought I warned you. But you have to admit that this can be fun sometimes, can't it?

Alexandra I do not want to be thrown off LBT. I participate everywhere else quite nicely. But I would not at all be disappointed if you would shut this thread down. It is downright ugly.

Ron I don't have all my ducks in a row like you do, just lying in wait for some unsuspecting heathen you can tear into. But I do know that there is a passage in the Bible that speaks to the use of the word "fool". In the Bible there aren't many words that have been condemned as strongly as that one when one man uses it to describe another man. You have used that word twice in reference to me (and God said "man" in the Bible, so I'm exempt), but now you've used it in reference to a man. I think that as knowledgeable about the Bible as you are, as quick to use quotes from the Bible as you are, maybe you can come up with the passage I'm referring to since I don't remember exactly where I read it. But I have a sneaking suspicion that you have been tossing that word around knowing that it is one of the most insulting things one man can call another man. So I'm afraid that you're protesting too much when it comes to you saying you have been "attacked". (You've used the word "attack" much more often than anyone else here, I'm pretty sure.) TOM makes a thoughtful statement above when he speaks about medical science being a science that God gave us. He also gave us the science to use carbon dating, trips to the moon, and lots of other fields of scientific endeavor. You can't put science in the equation only when it's convenient for your argument.

Maybe this part of LBT should be retitled, Rants, Raves and Rudeness.

T_O_M: That may be true, but that doesn't make it incorrect. Them guys at South Park is geniuses.

Serious! Great observation. I wouldn't want to have to spend the time to take Sunta to task on her spelling! In some threads, that could develop into a person's life's work.