BJean

Just because the medical profession may have already ruled out a medical cause for this child's abnormal size, does not mean that she's just overeating and that's all there is to it. Anyone who believes that is an ass. Obesity and related disorders are not just about loss of self-control. We may be in the infant stages of being able to understand this very complex problem, but hopefully one day some of the keys can be unlocked and the lap band and other extreme measures that people take to be "normal" will be passe. Can you even imagine the trauma this child is having to endure? Going on the Dr. Phil show to have her parents confronted and having plain-spoken Dr. Phil put in his two cents, with his audience cheering him on, could be very detrimental to this family. I hope that it doesn't turn out that way. I usually think that Dr. Phil is spot-on with his assessments. However have any of you tried to read his book and commit to it for weight loss?

Wheetsin: My sister and I always knew when to call each other no matter how far apart physically we were, even when she lived in England and I lived in Virginia. We grew up finishing each other's thoughts and sentences. My DH said that we could both talk at the same time and understand each other perfectly when no one else had any idea what we were talking about. She was very much like my twin although we were actually 13 months apart. When she went in for her mastectomy, she told the doctor and nurses that she really did not want anything negative said in the operating room. She told them that even though she was "out", she would soak up those negative vibes and that she would really appreciate it if they would think happy thoughts and speak upbeat words. She was not a mystic, didn't believe in anything weird. She was a teacher, a Presbyterian and was very smart and I miss her every moment of every day.

laurend: You are absolutely right. My kids went mostly to parocial schools and the question of our not paying taxes for public schools was on the agenda of the Republicans big time. I thought it was wrong then and still do now, and for exactly the reason you stated. It's a shame that so many people feel they must send their children to private schools to get a quality education. It's a self-fullfilling prophesy. The more we send our kids to private schools, the worse the public schools have become because of the lack of interest of those parents in the public school system. And of course even though Bush declared that education is important on his agenda (I mean afterall that goes without saying since Laura was a teacher), doesn't mean that schools have been improved since he's been president. My neighbor works in the "No child left behind" program. She says it's a joke. darrell: what man makes Hillary look like Rush?

gadgetlady: Thanks, that explains that. As for Ann Coulter, I get the creeps when I see her name in print, much less hear her voice. She and Rush should hook up. They've just got to love the ground each other walks on. When Ann Coulter first started out, I thought she was a very attractive young lady. The longer the hateful stuff in her head came tumbling out in shocking sound bytes, the uglier she became. Now I find her looks and demeanor to be incredibly revolting. But lets face it, she made a name for herself and got her mug on TV, I'm glad she's the one who actually has to sleep with herself, not me.

OU: I appreciate your candor too. I would completely freak out if Rush ran for Senate, so I can certainly understand your reaction to the possibility of Al Franken running. You're right, we're looking at each of them from opposite ends of the spectrum. Neither of them possibly in a perfect world, should be in government. However this is far from a perfect world and there are some folks who are and have been in Congress who are much worse than Al Franken. Actually, to tell the truth I think people like them and Newt are easier to deal with than some of the sneaky you-know-whats who say whatever they think people want to hear, but behind the scenes they pull all kinds of shady shennanigans. At least with these outspoken types, we voters pretty much know what we're getting.

OU: I think Al Franken is hilarious. I imagine you think Rush is funny. Al saw a need, jumped in and did what somebody needed to do. People were actually believing most of the venom that Rush was spewing. I have heard Rush tell bald faced lies. And say them with conviction. He and Courtney Love have a lot in common. Gadgetlady: I don't want to argue about it either, but I am definitely curious, can you tell me something that Rush Limbaugh has done to deserve the Nobel Prize for Peace? (This should be interesting!)

gadgetlady: Gore isn't a bad person, like Rush Limbaugh is. I'll bite. In what category did Rush get nominated for a Nobel Prize? Journalism?

OUSooner: I'd love a Newtie nomination because I'm a Democrat. It would help our cause. Mariah: The current new-cons in control of the Republican party don't want John McCain because he has become too middle of the road. Not right wing enough. He used to be much more to their liking. Now he's trying to get more votes from the whole population, not just from the right. If you go back and read some of the stuff he's said in the past couple of years or so, he's much more moderate than prior to that. He's smart because he knows there's going to be a ground swell of support for someone who is moderate after what we've been through with the right-wing dominated congress and White House.

Who do ya'll think the Republicans will nominate for president? Or should that be a different thread? Man I hope they nominate Newt Gingrich.

Hi yall: Sorry I'm late checking in. I've been out of town and just flew back this afternoon. I havent' lost any weight again. I am going to go to my next appt. with rocks in my pockets and my lead underwear on. LOL I did exercise twice - one hour sessions of water aerobics. You all did great! Keep up the good work.

It seemed that Kerry's presidential campaign was mishandled from start to finish. That he committed that fairly recent gaffe that the Republicans turned into a slam against our military was just hideous. I really like him, but he just seems too weak to handle the dishonest smear tactics of presidential politics. That the Republicans were able to do what they did to Clinton, and for the length of time that they got away with it, and that they spent the kind of obscene money and governmental resources doing it, with impunity, is infuriating too. Now the election is two years away and they are already using their low-down dirty tricks against two of the Democratic front runners. I truly believe that they don't draw the line at anything. I hope that Democrats will fight the fight with honest ammunition and facts. We certainly have plenty of ammunition!!!

Alexandra: You win.

See there Alexandra, even Green overcame her modest exposure to religion. heh, heh, heh.

TOM: So THAT'S why your head is so bumpy. I often wondered. As for the arsehole who killed his own son by breaking the law, I think he should be punished for breaking the law. If we aren't going to enforce laws, why have them? I have pity for the man, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he broke the law. I agree that children should be protected from mean parents. Can we also protect them from stupid parents? When does it start, TOM? In the crib? Should we have daily or nightly visits to ensure that all parents are not abusing their children? What will we call this new police force? Will they carry weapons just in case some kooky parent has a weapon at home? Yeah, yeah, I know. That's not what you meant. But how far exactly do you want society to go in protecting children? I guess for some people it would start when the sperm wiggles its way into the egg. Or when the dad thinks about the sperm wiggling its way toward the egg. We better be sure that the mothers maternal equipment is environmentally receptive too. About the Jehovahs Witness folks who won't transfuse their child... it seems like abuse, doesn't it? What are you going to do with the Christian Scientists who don't take their children to the doctor and get them innoculations? Want to deport them or incarcerate them until they change their religious beliefs? What if they promise not to withhold medical treatment? Should we still do something about them? I hope you don't think I'm being silly. Well I guess I am a little, but if you think my questions are extreme, I guess you'd be right. But these are things that many people in this world would not think are going too far.

Thanks for the feedback! Alexandra: We seem to totally agree in your first post. You did a very good job of explaining it. My only disagreement is that a healthy knowledge of religion does not have to result in an irrational loss of intellect. (Although an unhealthy brainwashing certainly can!) In your second post, I think it is commendable that you were able to have the self-discipline to ferret out the answers as well as the questions. Not all people are willing to do that much work. Most everyone will do some digging, but unless they are very interested in the topic, it can be fairly limited without someone helping them with sources, etc. (I may be speaking from the dark ages, before the computer age and the wealth of information that is at our childrens' fingertips today.) I am not advocating that everyone should give their children a religious education via anything that is beyond what they believe themselves. And it sounds to me that your parents' approach worked very well for you. The one reason that I would like for my grandchildren to have some religious foundation is not because of my own beliefs or non-beliefs. I wouldn't begin to dictate where or by whom they receive the lessons. But I do think that when kids are small, it is good for them to learn the value of being a good person. The Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule that I had to study, memorize and recite in front of the congregation when I was twelve, was an endoctrination in being a good person. I disagree with the concept of being good because if you aren't YOU ARE GOING TO HELL. And I do not agree with the concept of incurring God's wrath if you do not worship him and I disagree with the concept that the Bible is a literal work, that God himself wrote. In fact, it sorta makes me crazy, as you may have noticed earlier. Not all churches are so steeped in lore that they are exclusionary of other beliefs or even other churches. As long as parents instill a basic reason in their offspring, for being a good person and being a good and decent member of society, I am happy. I just think a lot of young parents today who have been so completely turned off by organized religion (the Catholic Church in my childrens' case, Southern Baptist in my DIL's), have caused them to think that they should WITHHOLD ANY religious education from their children. I believe just as strongly that science and evolution should be taught to my grandchildren. Hopefully, they will acquire a healthy knowledge of both and make all of their own decisions about both. Just as you have.

I was at the book store today and saw a hard cover book that is already out and is page after page, pictures and reasons why people love to hate Hillary. My hope is that they're going to continue to bash her and become so blatant and disgusting about it that the American people elect her to show them how unacceptable their campaign tactics are. Can you say backfire?

KariK: It seems that Ron is not the only guy who can't tell the difference between the president and God. Sometimes I think the president is confused about that too. People repeatedly, not just Ron, have stated that we're all a bunch of unpatriotic Americans who are dividing this country because we don't bow down to Bush because he's our president. Respect they yell, respect the president, whether you agree with him or not! I wish I had been around at this site way back when Clinton was in office. I wonder if those same people demanded respect for Clinton because he was our president. Did they really respect him and not criticize him when he was our president? Because they sure are dissing him now, every chance they get. And I'm like Green (I think it was) who said that Getting a Blow Job and lying about it is a lot less horrendous than taking us into war and lying about it.

My son reached a point in his life where he decided to stop going to church. When his wife was pregnant and I asked if they were going to take their children to church, he said that NO, he was going to be open minded and allow his children to make up their own minds about religion and God and Jesus. I asked him how they are supposed to make up their minds if they have no religious education. I also pointed out that he made his own decision about religion and he was raised in the Catholic Church and attended parocial schools. He understood my point.

The direction this discussion has taken about what parents should be allowed to teach their children is really surprising me. Are people actually suggesting that we should intervene one way or other about whether parents should be allowed to teach their children about God and religion (WHATEVER - Wiccan notwithstanding - religion it may be)? Even if you are seriously concerned about white supremists teaching their children hate, who the heck are you to intervene? Where does your control over other people's freedom to raise their children start and stop? Today you're afraid of white supremists, tomorrow you might have reason to be afraid of fanatical Jesus freaks. The next day you might be afraid of a faction of the Pentecostal Church. The day after that, you may decide that The Christian Church is dangerous, and so on and so on and so on. You can't legislate morals. You can't tell people what to teach their babies. When they are attending public schools where teaching standards are universal in the U.S. school systems, we as a society get plenty of time to teach children all we need for them to know to enter society. In the meantime, think freedom, folks. Basic American freedom.

gadgetlady: The whole reason I thought that the term "lobbists" was innaccurate is because of the context where it was used. I did not mean to say that Planned Parenthood doesn't lobby Congress. They do not lobby people - just like preachers should not be considered "lobbying" from the pulpit. I may be splitting hairs, but it's the connotation of "Congressional lobbyists" as it relates to the clergy and an organization that offers assistance to people that made me uncomfortable. (BTW, there are some Christians who pay for lobbyists too, against abortion, so Planned Parenthood doesn't have a monopoly in that venue.) But that is another topic for discussion.

Sometimes silence is Golden.

Green it is not unusual for our times, but it is still shocking when you're the one having to go through it. I don't know how we improve the situation. I know there are some things that can be improved today, but to change the whole system is a tough one. The caregiver and the families of people who are declining and who are no longer self-sufficient, go though so much that they sometimes have health problems as a result of the stress. My heart goes out to you and your family. I've been through it, I have a good idea of what you're dealing with on a day to day basis. Sometimes each day is worse than the last. Death and dying,, and poor medical care during the process, is sometimes almost unbearable. But of course we have no choice but to do the best we can.

OUSooner: I cannot believe that people are so stupid that they care one way or another what the color of a person's skin is. Who among us is not of some racial mixture or another? That whole thing about "one drop" and all that is even more offensive to me than some fanatical religious zealot is. Applications and questionnaires used to ask Color: I would say medium pink with brownish freckles. Or I when they asked race: I would say American Indian with some Scotch and Irish thrown in. When they asked Church Preference I would answer Gothic.

I'm with you WAVYDABY. I wasn't sure where you were coming from and I really wanted to understand. I agree that no one should put another person down for his beliefs. I wish more people felt that way about it. The door should swing both ways. I am so sorry that Ron continues to believe that people were putting him down and attacking him. I don't know if his faith blinded him to the fact that we all just want to get along, but we don't expect to be told what to believe by ANYBODY. This is a country based on that principal. We tried to explain, he wasn't open to it. He seemed to feel that it was all about him having a strong faith. It was definitely not as far as I am concerned.

Alan Keyes: Maybe a great orator, but one scary dude.