BJean

sophrosyne: I believe that the Bible can be difficult reading sometimes and confusing, but it has wonderful parables and simple lessons that we can easily apply to our lives each day. If we try to take it too literally, we can miss out on so much. Do you wonder why some people find it so necessary to define the Bible as literal? I think that it may mean that they are so afraid of dying and hell, and since there are a couple of passages that promise them they will go to heaven no matter what if they follow a couple of the rules explicitly, that they feel insured in a way. It's the only thing that makes sense to me, but if you have a better take on it, I am very interested in knowing it.

It's interesting this global warming thing. Why would people, scientists, insist that global warming is happening? To line their pockets with gold? To get power over the people? Why would Bush deny that global warming is a trend? Why? Do any of us need to point that out?

Lisa: And I honestly think we should be scared. Some people here think I'm saying that or that TOM is saying things for effect and for the shock value. I promise that I am 100% serious about this. What Bush has been able to pull of during his presidency I would never have thought possible. If he can do these things, how far can he go? What else will we let him take from us? What other atrocities will he commit in the name of freedom and Christianity? They are deadly serious questions. The fact that Bush is catering to the extreme right, to some fundamentalist Christians, is such a powerful and frightening tactic, it smacks of McCarthyism and Hitler's tactics. We never thought those men could take advantage of their power and crush people like they did either. Right under honest people's noses.

Amen to the Ann Coulter sell out comment. But I do think you're being too kind. It's so funny when someone who hasn't been here at all or for a while, reads a lot of this and then seems overwhelmed. I've found that the only way to really enjoy it is to jump right in and parrot back some of the most outlandish things that you read. It is humorous to see them sputter. We really shouldn't take advantage of the less gifted that way though. The most interesting aspect of this thread is that at one point we all agreed that the Bible could not be interpreted in its' totality, as the literal word of God. Then it all deteriorated again after somebody slept on it. Whee!

There you go Wheetsin, talking about food again! I'm assuming it's a Gummy Worm!

laurend I just re-read your posts, I agree with Alexandra and Green...BRAVO!!!

TommyO: My point exactly.

Ron, we do not have to prove our faith to you or explain it to you. It's our faith. Period. It has taken us our whole lives to come to believe what we do. We aren't suseptible to someone who would like to come in and tell us that we are wrong, wrong, wrong. We believe what we believe. You can yell it to the rooftops that your way is the only way, but you'd be wrong about that too. Furthermore, you do not provide any proof of anything you're yelling about. If you had proof, you would have stated it by now. So you're wrong to say we're wrong.

Nope, dude. You're wrong. About all of it. You can call me names, you can refute what I say, but it doesn't make you right. History tells us that Republicans do the impeaching (I'll grant you that Democrats would like to be rid of this horrid man who holds the office of President of the United States of America) and the Democrats who care about all Americans, not just the rich ones, are the ones who are assasinated and impeached. If what Bill Clinton did while in office that was impeachable, i.e., he lied about his affair with Monica, was such a grievous offense, why wasn't he removed from office? They certainly wanted him removed. I think that the Republicans were extremely embarrassed that they did what they did and that they spent the money that they did to uncover the fact that the president took advantage of a little intern vixen. Especially because of the impeachment process and the document that they wrote and made public.

Maybe all of the people here who you've misunderstood, misquoted and called fools should band together collectively and compose a post that helps you to understand, Ron, that we believe that taking the Bible literally is incorrect and impossible, and that basing ones beliefs on the Bible and its' scriptures, does not have to be taken literally in order for one to believe in it. What part of that do you not understand?

You're funny Ron. No one here said that they didn't base their faith on the Bible. Where do you get that?

You're spouting pure neo-con hype. He coerced the response he demanded from his advisor about the Weapons of Mass Destruction Saddam Hussein supposedly had. So not only did he lie, he manipulated his advisors and that is even worse than lying. We don't impeach, Ron, you and the likes of you do the impeaching. We try to work with the government and elected officials we have. You are just mistaken and wrong.

Hey, listen... we do count on the Bible as accurate. We know it isn't literal - you know that - we all know that. The fact that you keep beating the proverbial dead horse with absolutlely no real facts with which to base your opinion, is plumb silly. Especially considering you're continuing with behavior that you have accused practically everyone here of doing. And especially considering your arguments were dealt with many pages ago and we all understood them at the time. You are just mistaken and where do you get that?

Furthermore Ron, just because you didn't SEE Lisa's or wavydaby's, TOM's or my response about your ridiculous claim that we don't base our faith on the Bible, doesn't mean that it wasn't there. Lots and lots of things seem to get misunderstood or ignored by you.

Ron, you are quite wrong about Bush and about his administration and the way he got us into this war. That he lied to the Congress, including Senator Clinton, is not something you should be bragging about. That he lied to his people, the people who elected him is not something that any of us should put up with. His trickiness isn't quite as covert as Nixon's, but he's just as tricky - or tries to be. You are flatly mistaken.

Ron: It isn't surprising that you don't understand Green's point and why we should be scared out of our wits!

Green: I love you.

Betsyjane: Always loved that saying. And it seems to fit the circumstances quite well.

Green: Good thing you're not a U.S. citizen, some of the people here would say you're being unpatriotic talking that way about our government.

Carlene: Bush is such a bad person, I might not be willing to give him a BJ, but I might be willing to hire someone to do the job. But I doubt very seriously if the new legislature would impeach him, like the Republicans did Clinton. They'd think up some reason why it's okay for Bush because afterall, to say HE is wrong is to be unpatriotic and liberal.

Ron you're talking out both sides of your mouth about patriotism. Where do you get this stuff? And like Lisa, I have answered your question about my faith as have several others, you just don't like our answers. Saying that unless we believe what you CHOOSE to believe, we have no basis for our religion or spirituality is just plain silly. Where do you get this stuff??? Are you thick-headed or just a plain ole' fool? I mean, after all, where in the world do you get this stuff?

TOM: I know you like to get people to think and to provoke a dialog between interested parties, but I definitely think they will never understand what you're trying to say. They will accuse you of all kinds of things. That's just how single minded they are.

sophrysyne: That is one of the best things I've ever read at LBT, Rants and Raves.

Just as I thought. You were probably one of the most vocal people around about Bill Clinton when he was president. What the Republicans did to that man is not very different from what TOM is suggesting can happen in the U.S. against Muslim believers. And after that happens, not much can stand in the way of right wing-nuts doing whatever they want to do to others who stand in their way. Republicans were still so ticked at what they felt was an injustice to Nixon, they've been bound and determined to get back. Unfortunately they've never had the same ammunition that the Democrats had. So they used what little they did have to publish one of the most obscene, biased, filthy documents that as far as I know has ever been put into print and circulated throughout the Congress as a basis for impeachment. What they did to this country and the presidency is wrong and as unpatriotic as anything I've ever seen in my life or even read about. I'm wondering... am I the only one whose noticed that it's the so-called liberals, the men who work to help the down trodden, who get assasinated in this country? Sure Gerald Ford supposedly had an attempt and Reagan met up with a richocheted bullet, but the liberals are the ones who are always killed.

Hey gadgetlady. Maybe TOM was trying to call attention to the program so that people would watch it? IMHO.