BJean

gadgetlady: to answer a question directed at me from several pages back, the state prohibited my missionary cousins from instructing Jews about Chrisitanity.

Yeah Carlene, that's what I'm sayin'! Obviously something was suspect because any normal human, RN or not, would know to get someone some help. Makes you wonder if maybe she lapsed into stupors on a regular basis or somethin'. Lap Band Rupture? What?? How the heck could a lap band RUPTURE? Deteriorate, maybe. Fall apart? Get too much fill and explode? Hmmm, sounds like one of those urban myths to me.

Thank you, Ron.

Ron you and gadgetlady are doing the picking and choosing. Many of us accept the Bible as the word of God. We do not have the problems that you seem to have in the past of embracing of it and holding it to our breast without having someone assure that it is literal and proven to be literal. We are not all involved in dissecting it so that we can make something out of it that wasn't meant by God. Most of the Bible is self-explanatory but there are parts that many people debate because they appear to be ambiguous. We don't have to deny the Bible or change anything just because of these ambiguities. You behave as if by accusing us of not having true Christian faith as you define it, you more powerful and a better Christian. But you have done nothing to prove it. Ron you beat your chest and stomp and huff around, you threaten us with hell, you call us fools. It is ludicris to us but we are highly offended and that's why we continue to argue and take up our own posture in this seemingly silly long-winded debate.

Wheetsin: Lots of people do call me BJ. This day and age, I have avoided it because of the obvious connotation.

At any rate, I honestly do not care what you believe. You have no credibility with me as I obviously do not with you. It's okay. Live and let live. Love and get love in return.

Ron, if you are insinuating that I made up the story about my cousin and her husband you are completely utterly wrong. It was not, however, yesterday. It was 30 years ago. They are back in the U.S. and have their own huge, beautiful church in Cincinnati. They not only spent time in Israel (a really long time, both of their children were born there), but they also spent a lot of time all over the Middle East. They could teach you so much about all of the people in that region. They started out their ministry sounding a whole lot like you. They have learned so much more about God, Jesus and the people of the world, they no longer rant, rave and scream in people's faces to get the word across. They have seen too much pain and suffering to waste any more of their time on earth treating people badly in the name of God.

Don't you people ever watch daytime television? There have been many programs where gay people who have denied their true sexuality (some of them because it went against their church's doctrine) who did everything in their power to overcome their homosexuality. They have gone to great lengths, and most of them have studied the Bible, gone to workshops, had counseling and some even had to have antidepressants to function. Then they realized that they could no longer live a lie. They had to stop allowing their churches, family, friends and society in general, make them deny their sexuality. They had spent sometimes years living what they called "a lie". One of my daughter's best friends in high school has a brother who is Gay. His parents are die-hard members of a Church of Christ. They have done almost unmentionable things to their own son because they believe that he can un-choose his sexuality. The poor boy finally wound up on drugs, living on the streets of downtown Orlando because they threw him out for refusing to deny that he was a homosexual. He was a beautiful blond, healthy, intelligent young boy, who now is a broken, angry, lonely person who I wouldn't be surprised if, at this point, he has AIDS. He has no self-esteem, he would rather die than say he's not Gay, so why bother using condoms? I feel horrible for the son and horrible for the parents. Can you even imagine the torment they must have gone through to treat their own (only) son that way? Yet it is what their pastor advised them to do, and how the church admonished them that primarily caused their behavior. How terribly sad this family is today. How much pain and suffering do homosexuals have to endure before people understand that we must learn how to live, let live, and love all of God's creatures? However they're wired. I do not doubt for one minute that if Jesus met this young man, he would embrace him and tell him that he is loved.

Did you know that when my cousin and her husband were missionaries in Israel many years ago and ran a Christian Church there, they were forbidden to try to convert Jews? They worked with and taught Arab children. That was a Southern Baptist missionary school they ran. I guess maybe the Southern Baptists got ticked off and took matters into their own hands right here in the U.S. of A.

gadgetlady: I was not insulting you in any way. I was trying to make my point. By saying jumping off, I meant that you left, you jumped off the thread. After everything you've said since you jumped on today, I cannot believe that you are pointing fingers and taking offense to what everyone else is saying. You used to be much more level headed in these discussions. Well I guess I used to be more level headed before I joined this thread too. My question was a very serious one. I noted that Ron has sort of taken over the job of answering it. If you agree with everything he's posted about it, then don't bother answering me. But don't accuse me of attacking you. I was not attacking you. You don't attack me either, please.

fertilized eggs don't have rights.

furthermore gadgetlady, if what I was asking is an attack, you've been throwing a lot of that around and I suggest you get off the subject of how awful the rest of us are.

gadgetlady: you called my serious question to you an attack? If so, that explains a whole lot.

Ron, will you agree that our perfect, all wonderful, all knowing God did not physically write the Bible? Will you agree that God spoke to MAN or MEN and that those MEN wrote down what God said to them? And would you agree that MEN are not perfect, like Jesus? If all of the above are true, then why can't you understand that the Bible wasn't written by God, it was written by men and was inspired by God. I don't care what the Old Testament says, men wrote that too. Get it???? Why can't you understand that people who love and respect the teachings of the Bible do not have to have the Bible be perfect, like Jesus, because nothing, nothing, nothing is?

Some of the beverages that ya'll have included for the party have me wondering, am I the only bandster who was told not to have carbonated sodas? Did they just tell me not to drink them because of the calories? My DH and I were on a plane a week or so ago and the flight attendant ran out of WATER, can you believe!? And so I tried to think of something quenching that didn't have caffeine and I came up with Sprite. I took two sips and remembered (like God speaking to me from the heavens) THOU SHALT NOT INGEST CARBONATED BEVERAGES. I gulped and asked her to bring me a vegetable juice (ugh). I guess vodka would mix pretty well with that - hmmm and even provide some roughage if you include a stalk of celery and a twist. Sure can't hurt vegetable juice with that addition.

So now gadgetlady jumps off. I'm very disappointed. I really would like to understand her persistence with regard to my above post. That topic has been nearly beaten to death here, yet it still continues to come up and with such accusing innuendo. Several of us have said over and over that we do not need to have someone prove to us that the Bible is a word-for-word factual account of the words spoken to man by God. To accuse us of having a "salad bar" faith is really uncalled for and judgmental. And closed minded. And self-serving. And like Ron says a lot, Where do you get this stuff?

gadgetlady: I could and want to respond to your last post but I will refrain because I don't think that anything I say about it will change your mind about what you feel about what you read. I am glad that those of us who were intensely involved in that discourse took a moment to cool off, laugh together to relieve the tension and to bond. I wish you could have enjoyed it with us. But I have a very serious question that I would really appreciate an answer to. You have gone on quite a lot about the Bible being literal and if we don't believe that the Bible is a literal tome, we're Christians without what? Direction? Anyway, my actual question is: Why do you think that the Bible MUST be taken as literal? I for one do not believe that the Noah's Ark story is literally true. I am like Lisa on this, except I believe it with more conviction than she seems to. I do believe that it may be partially true or completely true to the people who wrote about it at the time. Maybe their view of the "world" was 100 miles square. Maybe all of the animals in that square totaled up to about 50, but the point is for me, it doesn't matter at all. I can still learn the lesson of Noah's Ark. I can still feel passionate about Noah and what God spoke to him, but to believe that the all of the earth was under water and that Noah's Ark held 2 of every animal on earth is pure folly.

ousooner: Yea you! That was great to read.

Uh, I guess I'll pass on the whole epispasm idea. Nite again youins.

P.S.S. If Ron were to crash the party, can someone make sure he gets one of those Brain drinks that Wheetsin knows about? It's worth a shot, isn't it?

P.S. Wheetsin tomorrow would you promise to tell me what an epispasm is? I'm not sure but I think I may want one. Um kay?

Ok we need logs for the fire, kindling and matches maybe we can siphon some gas out of the car to start the fire, so we better bring a hose, at least a 15 footer. Any of you able to suck real good? So you can start the siphon, I mean. Ok I think I have everything here. We should meet in the parking lot and who has an SUV so we can get everything in? Do you think we should bring a tent in case with any luck we'll pass out and spend the night? Yeah. That could happen especially with the amount of booze I'm bringing. So we probably should put in a little cook stove and some pans and food for breakfast. Any of youse bandsters can't eat eggs? Oooh. I just had a thought...if we're going to spend the night, shouldn't we bring a mattress of some sort? Yeah? Well, I guess we should bring our own blankets and pillows. No sense roughing it. All set? PART-EE PART-EE PART-EE PART-EE. Oh wait a minute. I forgot something, I have to go to bed and get some sleep because we're looking for office space tomorrow. Darn. How disappointing. Well Wheetsin, let's just say we partied and celebrated your one year in spirit! It was some good time, I'll tell you! And the best thing was that none of us got hurt - nobody got cut or swallowed gasoline, or choked on a pineapple rind. It was all good. Nite ya'll.

Ok for TOM we need Maneshevitz (sp),. add that to the list. And an epispasm, Wheetsin can tell us more about that later, I guess. I'm not sure if that's for the male Jew or the female Jewess. It definitely sounds like something we want along for the ride, so to speak. About the body shots, do we need anything for those? Whipped cream, sugar, salt, olives, cherries, pineapple??? Did I mention the blanket? We are going to the beach, aren't we? I mean I think we'd get too much attention in a bar. Oh yeah, we probably need some kind of lantern that doesn't blow out in the wind. I'm ready now let's go do some serious Jewish conversions and some serious celebrating of the one year mark for Wheetsin! Yeaaaa, and the crowd went wild!

Ok. So let's see here: we need miniskirts, preferably plaid. We need bagpipes, that's a given. We need a person who is the opposite of the one who performs a Bris. We need a sharp scalpel, We need tea cups for visual coordination with our miniskirts, We need amaretto, kahlua, cream, sex on the beach, peach schnapps, won't we need a blanket if we're having sex on the beach? Hmmm. I may need to start all over.

Yes Greg, you have cracked the secret code of Ron. When the going gets tough, the Ron gets going. Let's face it, he was running out of negative phrases. They were so overdone by the end of the day. Even Ron might have noticed. I tried to help with that. I've done my part.