BJean

Carlene: It might interest you to know that my daughter-in-law became pregnant with identical twins. She suffered from a malady known as Twin to Twin Transfusion Syndrome. She consulted with four doctors including 2 "specialists" on TTTS. All but one recommended that she and my son "START OVER"!!! The fourth doctor told her what her medical alternative was, serial amniocentesis (weekly withdrawal of amniotic fluid), which might save one or both babies. That procedure carried quite a lot of risk and could also have a possible outcome of one or both babies dying in utero, or if one or both survived to his 2nd year of life, would have a very good chance of developing Cerebral Palsy. My DH got online and researched and read everything he could find and learned that there were two doctors in the United States who do a procedure (surgery) that could actually cure the problem. Long story short, we flew to Milwaukee and had the doctor who has devoted his life to the research and development of the now relatively routine (for him) procedure. It was a 15 minute surgery that was captured on video and we all got to see. He did a small mid-line incision, went in and with a laser, cauterized the connecting blood vessels on the placenta so that they no longer allowed blood to circulate back and forth between the twins. Although she spent much of the remaining months of the pregnancy in bed, she delivered the boys by cesaerian and they are now rompin' stompin' healthy 4 year olds.

TOM: Your last sentence makes a good point in this argument. Carlene also explains in her posts why so many people are frustrated with our litigious approach to many things that are "accidents." Wheetsin shows us how all of this influences what doctors make and perhaps even who is willing to practice medicine these days. I believe we can all agree that the pendulum has swung too far in one direction and things need to swing back the other way a bit. Bubble asked me if I was saying that bartenders should be held responsible for serving an already intoxicated patron. She probably hadn't read my earlier posts. I do not feel that there should be laws compelling bartenders to enforce the law regarding public drunkenness or drunk drivers. If a bartender has coerced a patron to drink until they are legally drunk, or if a bartender has in some way been negligent, the patron who suffers damage due to the bartender's negligence, should be able to go through the court system in an effort to prove that the bartender was negligent - just the same as in any other case where an individual whose negligence has caused damage. I absolutely do not believe that a bartender should be compelled to enforce a law that says he or she may not serve an alcoholic beverage to someone who may have already had enough to drink. Like you, Bubble, I cannot fathom the argument that says we want our bartenders to be the beverage police. People need to be responsible for their own behavior. I totally understand the information TOM posted relating to the McDonald's hot coffee in her shorts case. However, I believe if I were on the jury I believe I would have voted to charge the idiot customer 80% at fault, not 20%.

lisa: In light of the dealings of this Presidency, the article you posted almost seems funny.

karey: I've been having the same trouble with fills. I can't understand it. I'll be fine at first and then it gets increasingly tighter, then almost nothing. When I go back there's always a little bit less than when I got the fill. Where does it go??? I haven't lost weight at all in the past couple of weeks and only a very small amount over the past 2 months. I don't know what's going on. I do know I haven't had the same amount of resolve to lose as I did in the beginning. I want that back. I've lost close to 40 lbs. and bam, I'm stuck (and I don't mean PB stuck) - I guess I mean at a plateau. I am so wanting to get to below 170 because the last time I was below 170 was about 8 or 9 years ago. Right now I'm bouncing back and forth from between a high of 182 to a low of about 176. Sooo frustrating. I would be excited if I fit into a size 12 at all. You're doing very well! I don't know why my doc doesn't suggest a soft diet after a fill. I'm going to ask about that tomorrow. It makes sense to me to take it easy because you might be a little swollen just from the new fill, right? Keep up the good work, Karey! You are going to keep me hanging on and not getting depressed. Thanks.

Wheetsin: You make my point, exactly. Now if we both can just learn to DUCK and COVER!

Carlene: I had the hot coffee incident in mind too. But wasn't it her vajayjay that was injured? Her Hoo-Hoo was the little chocholatey cupcake she was going to dunk in the coffee. Oh wait, that's Ho-Ho. My bad.

P.S. Wheetsin your lawsuit scenario that TOM pooh-poohed is not so far-fetched. Attorneys will sue anybody anytime, and I will defend their right to use the system. We definitely need those checks and balances! I believe that if somebody wants to hold the bartender accountable, it should be the individual who was served too many drinks and then allowed to walk out the door, keys in hand. The bartender should be sued in a civil court for damages by the drinker if he sustained damages due to the bartender's irresponsible behavior. In that lawsuit, in a court of law, the drinker must prove that the bartender was negligent and the bartender gets his day in court to prove that he was not. That's fair. But we have too many laws on the books right now that pass the buck down the line. We need to step up to the plate and take responsibility for our own actions!

No, of course not. Glad you follow my disjointed (oops) thinking, Wheet!

I'll bite lisa, what did Tony Snow have to say on the topic?

P.S. Actually TOM I'm a happy drunk. You'd probably like me better if I had a couple of stiff ones in me. Come to think of it, so would I. :faint:

Great points to ponder Wheet because that's exactly where a lawyer would go with this until he finally reached the Supreme Court with one argument or other. TOM: I don't have a short temper. I do have strong thoughts on this subject. I never drink and drive, but I did once. I was with my two best friends and we went to dinner at a fun Mexican restaurant. One was visiting with me from Orlando, the other from Denver. We started off with a couple of margaritas over dinner. Then another one after dinner. Then the restaurant said we'd had enough margaritas. So we ordered beers. We were having such a fantastic reunion, and everything was so hilarious. The next thing we knew, the restaurant was closing. We'd started this little party at 6 PM and it was now 11:00. We had no choice but to take the party home and continue our catching up on the good times we'd been missing. I drove us home over the back roads and we reached my house safe and sound, but I have no idea how I did it. I have no memory of the drive at all. I could very easily have run into a tree or a ditch or another car or a house, for that matter. If I had killed or injured one of those women, I couldn't have lived with the pain. It was absolutely not the restaurant or waiters fault that I drank and drove. They were not responsible for my irresponsibility! All I would have had to do was call my husband and he would have come to get us. People are so quick to blame everyone else when something goes wrong in their lives. You should have been more responsible and not have agreed to a third drink and the ones that followed. There are bad bartenders, no doubt about that. You should realize that before ever ordering the first drink, but if we pass a law that says that the bartender is responsible for your bad behavior, what is the motivation for you to take the responsiblity for yourself when you're sitting at a bar? Blame it on the bartender because he forced you to buy drinks? Really? I never said that the bartender shouldn't be taught to learn when a person has had too much to drink. They should learn it and they should get into trouble (lose their liquor license, pay a stiff fine, etc.) if they knowingly serve someone who is drunk. But we are responsible for our own behavior, we shouldn't expect anyone else to take the blame for our own supidity and weaknesses. I am glad that Mother's Against Drunk Driving and others have brought the problem of drunk drivers to an awareness that may prevent people from drinking and driving. Better enforcement of the laws about driving while intoxicated is vital in the process of people being more responsible public drinkers. The whole concept of having a designated driver has caught on with much of the younger generation. Strike one for the MADD organization! Sorry you were taken advantage of by an unscrupulous bartender, but you did learn a lesson and I'll bet you won't make that mistake again. Fortunately, you didn't harm anyone in the process. But if you had hurt someone, it wouldn't have mattered to you very much if the bartender had been punished. Your life would have probably been ruined, and that of the person you harmed.

Frankly I'd like to give him his Christmas goose early!

I continue to be amazed at how many Americans still think Bush and his administration are nice, smart, well-intended people. Meanwhile our basic rights in this country are being taken away, bit by bit. I haven't read a lot of books on how things unfolded in Germany in the beginning when Hitler first started getting the Germans to agree with his actions, but it had to have seemed like he was a good and decent man for him to have gained the German citizens' trust like Bush has gained the trust of some Americans. I am sure some of you will consider me an alarmist. You'd be right. I am not a young idealistic person. I've seen a lot in my lifetime and we should be very afraid of Bush and his backers. We can no longer suspect that he is the bad guy, he has proven himself to be the bad guy.

I agree with BubbleButt on this one. Bartenders should be charged with the task of not serving alcoholic drinks to a person whom he believes has had too many drinks already, but it shouldn't be lesgislated. If you make the bartender responsible for people who over-imbibe, we may as well tell people that they can go into a bar and not worry about getting drunk because the bartender is going to make that decision for them. That takes the responsibility off the shoulders of the person who is doing the drinking (and possible driving) where it should be. Unless you want bartenders to have the job of being law enforcers, instead of law followers, it just isn't right to blame them for someone leaving their bar and getting in a car and driving while drunk. First of all, how and when and by what standards are you going to train all bartenders to make the determination of whether a person has had too many drinks? What kind of weapon will a bartender be able to use when someone becomes unruly and decides to challenge the bartender? Law enforcement is what police are charged with - not bar owners. Police are trained to handle people who break the law. Bartenders are not and I don't want them to be. A person should be able to open a business, operate within the current laws and have reasonable business practices without having to become a law enforcer. Anyone who drinks and drives should be responsible for breaking the law.

lethea g: That is simply wonderful! What a huge and important step for you to take in your life. It couldn't have been the easiest thing you ever did, but I know you are so thankful that you took that step.

MinIN: If you are getting a full TT next week, don't expect to be comfortably sitting at the computer anytime soon. Oh but wait a minute, you're not getting a TT, are you? Rather breast enhancement surgery? If that's the case, I can't comment on how you're going to feel next week. I wish you the very best results!!! We will be thinking of you, getting even all the more fabulously gorgeous. You've worked hard and done so well at this weight loss thing - you definitely deserve to keep doing what you can to be fit and beautiful. I wish I had gotten the band when I was your age!! We'll look forward to hearing from you as soon as you're up to it. Btw, thanks so much for taking care of the stats again. We illiterate computer non-geeks are sorta at the mercy of you brainiacs.

P.S.S. You are not the only gay person posting at LB Talk. Not the only Born Again either. You might be the only 40-something born again gay man, raising 2 teenagers, whose better half is also 40-something and now sporting a band. I'm not sure about that either though.

MsDad: Glad to have you aboard. There are only one or two actual bashers here. They are very passionate about certain topics. You need to be aware that this area is labeled Rants and Raves and we all feel free to rave on... and on and on sometimes. It is refreshing to be able to vent and argue and still be friends. After all blest be the tie that binds. The bands being the tie that binds. Pun intended. :mad: So you didn't ask, but my advice is, don't take any of us too seriously. We really aren't mean, just opinionated and vocal because this is just the forum for it. Besides, we are all probably struggling a little with the fact that we can't turn to food when we get all "het up." Good luck on your journey to bandland. P.S. I am glad you settled the question of chance or choice!

laurend: I have no idea what the stats are and I believe they would be difficult to get. But my experiences tell me that while there are many churches that do very good work and that are not governed by greed and power, there are many churches that have become so obsessed with their power, they do not practice the basic teachings of Jesus. Some of them may not have physical churches but there are many televangelists who bear this out. In fact, I would probably venture to say that all televangelists are obsessed with material things and power. They are quite different from a church that is supported by, and for the most part run by, the people in the community it serves, presumably as in the case of lethea g's church.

lethea g: That is a beautiful story about your experiences within your church! It sounds like you are surrounded by many good, loving people. I am sure that they are thankful that you are in their lives as well. I completely agree that it can be a very personal thing to attend church and worship God. That was one of the things I appreciated so much in the Catholic Church. It was a very spiritual setting compared to the other churches I had been a member of earlier in my life (Methodist, First Christian and Southern Baptist, which were all much more social than spiritual.) I love to witness churches that actually go out into the community and help others with their work, time and money, like yours does. Too many churches collect money and use it to build bigger churches, buy more elaborate pews and more expensive choir robes. My Dad used to rail about our church always raising money for a bigger and more elaborate church. He thought the money should go to helping people in need. Our large church already sat vacant almost all of 6 days out of 7. That was an enormously expensive bit of real estate to maintain just to have it sit there not being used, when there were people in our community who were destitute without electricity and running Water. I saw his point. It is very heart warming to learn what a great personal relationship you share with the other members of your church. I am very happy for you.

HoneyLin: Great that you are doing well and happy with your band!

karey: I read on another thread that you were going to do the Thermage and I remembered that when you got back you posted that it was painful. Then later I read another post from someone else who also said that it was painful. I believe you also said you might do it again and that you're happy with the results. I don't remember the name of the subsequent treatment similar to Thermage that is now being done that is not supposed to be so painful. Do you know the name of that one? I can't remember which thread that was on. I am glad to know that you are getting good results from your treatment. Do they predict how long the effects are supposed to last? Best wishes for your TT and B-lift. Will you have them done at the same time? Cool that your son is enjoying Montreal!! There's so much about it that feels exotic and French and historical. Will he plan to work for Cirque de Soliel when he is finished? How long is that course? We were there for only 2 years + a little bit. My husband was doing some consulting work for a company in St. Jean sur Richlieu, which is very French. I'm not sure I would have survived as well if we had lived there. We lived in the Anglo part of Montreal (on the west side) on the 18th floor of a high rise overlooking the mountain and beautiful old houses on the hillside. Do you plan another visit before your son comes back to the states?

Aaaaahhhh. The truth comes out. Green is no novice at this beauty business! Good show, darlin'!

Green I appreciate you pointing out to me that being small has its benefits too. I usually buy the smallest size they have of a particular shoe and it is usually the one that is on display. I don't even have to wait for a clerk to help me when I see a pair I like. :welldoneclap:

TOM: you ARE just using pornography to illustrate a point, aren't you? Not that there's anything wrong with that.... I'm just sayin' s all... :welldoneclap: