BJean

I'm guessing you're counting the days pre-surgery as part of your liquid diet?

This is really fun and uplifting, but I have to run. Thanks for keeping things civil. I certainly respect that.

A fetus isn't a self yet. Sorry, that's a fact. I suppose if the medical profession came up with the ability to grow a fertilized egg into a living breathing human being, you'd want those women with an unwanted pregnancy to submit to withdrawal of the fertilized egg and grow them to term and then have them be wards of the state? I do not believe that the government should be involved in people's right to take drugs. It hasn't worked thus far, has it?

Ah but if there WERE a medical condition that would endanger her life, it wouldn't really matter to you would it? You're completely for making abortions illegal, aren't you? I mean it's obvious that a fetus has more value to you than an adult woman. I get that. But I just don't get it. Anyway rest assured, you don't have to bother trying to convince me, I will NEVER get it. I told myself I would not go here again. But I got sucked back in. It's a sad, sad argument. The saddest part is that we are actually having to have this discussion again in my lifetime, thanks to the Republican party and George W. Bush. His mamma sure didn't bring him up right, did she? She believe a woman has a right to choose. At least that's what she said many moons ago. I haven't had a recent update (since her boy has been in office.) I can't imagine her being vocal about it as long as he's president.

Oops. Goofed again. I told myself to let the women's rights thing go. You obviously feel so strongly about it that nothing I say can make you understand why no one should pass a law saying that the government has the right to make decisions about what goes on inside her uterus.

That last sentence wasn't made with the intention of hatefulness. I am just really trying to understand how people think it's okay to inject themselves in a decision about a women's uterus and that they think it is a sin to kill an innocent fetus, but that it's okay to kill anyone else who may threaten them. It seems like a double standard to me. You love babies, but you don't have compassion or understanding for people with troubled minds or souls. Don't you know that an unwanted pregnancy can be just as much a threat to a woman's life as a criminal with a gun pointed to her head?

My son and DIL lived right in LA during the riots. After that, my son went out and purchased a number of guns, took lots of target practice and bought a huge commercial safe for the guns. I only hope that he doesn't actually kill someone someday. I don't want his family to be victimized by gun-totin' criminals, but I know how much it would change his life if he actually killed a human being. I just wonder if it's more likely that someone they know and love will be one day shot with one of his guns or if it is more likely that they will have a criminal intruder and need to protect themselves? I guess that's why you aren't worried about the stats. You don't want to take any chance that you won't be able to kill someone who is a threat to your family. I understand. You don't believe in killing babies in utero, but you do believe in killing.

I guess I'm not sure why you made the comment about statistics being immaterial to you. The number of killings that those two snipers committed in Washington, D.C. and northern Virginia is a statistic. The number of assassinations and attempted assassinations committed by guns in the U.S. is a statistic. The number of assaults and deaths committed in Waco is a statistic. The number of killings and injuries in Blacksburg are cited as statistics. Do you think that those statistics have nothing to do with the way guns are purchased and used in this country? I doubt very seriously if the individuals who committed those crimes were unschooled in the use of firearms.

I'm talking about the statistics as they relate to gun use. What you're saying about training having a causal effect on proper usage of a gun seem to make perfect sense. Unfortunately I don't think you have to have training and qualify to pass a test on proper usage and storage in order to buy a gun. The consequences of using a gun improperly are extremely bad. (If one considers being shot and suffering injury and/or death to be bad.) I don't blame honest, well-trained gun enthusiasts for not wanting additional laws passed for gun ownership. However I believe the laws on the books that aren't being enforced are not being enforced because they may be badly written laws or impractical laws that were enacted because of knee-jerk reactions to things like the horrific Blacksburg incident. What we need are better laws that actually protect people from improper and inappropriate use of firearms. I don't believe we should take away the rights of Americans to own guns, but there are too many accidental shootings and there are too many cases of nut-balls committing heinous crimes with guns. (understatement)

I don't become legless, but I do tend to do some knee-walking. At least I think that's how I get the rug burns.

Carlene: You're very sweet and you're being very generous. Nice to see under the circumstances. It can be very frustrating to watch people embrace things that they hope are true even when those things are not supported by facts. I've been guilty of jumping on the wrong bandwagon too. But there are so many myths going around about Social Security. It's been going on practically my entire lifetime. Everytime a Republican takes office they use Social Security to try to incite their constituents. If they were serious about SS reform, they wouldn't tell people that putting Social Security money back in the taxpayers hands for them to invest, is a viable answer. It's a political gambit.

That sophisticated, huh? I'm a Stoli and tonic girl myself. Subsequently sometimes accused of not being able to handle "firewater."

Somebody want to look up the stats for the number of people killed in a household with guns in the residence and the number of people killed in a household with no guns in the residence? If owning a gun really does prevent anyone in your home from being killed, then owning them is a no-brainer. If owning a gun makes it more probable (statistically) that you or someone in your home is killed or injured by a gun, then your argument for owning them for protection from the bad guys is not too justifiable, now is it? One of the profs I had in college said that there is a Scandinavian country where it is a requirement that at age 18, all boy citizens must attend a course on gun safety and shooting and then they are issued a gun. It insures that every household has at least one gun in residence. He said that their stats for crimes committed with guns is very low. I never researched it to find out if this prof was BS-ing us, but my guess is he was a card carrying member of the NRA.

One of my best buddies, Liz, always used to tell my daughter when she was complaining about boys... Liz would say, "Don't worry, honey. We have ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of what men want. If you understand that, you'll have nothing to worry about." She had a Air Force General father with four brothers and no sisters. Believe me, Liz understood men. (airway man, I'll bet you're lots of fun at a party. You are funny!)

Courtney Love is a seriously messed up woman. She was messed up before she met Cobain and lots of his friends think she was responsible for his death. There was a documentary about it. Whatever. Together they were a train wreck. It is a serious shame that their daughter has to cope with parents like them, especially if addiction is genetically passed on. I agree with whoever suggested she had the fat sucked out. She looks like she's had some very, very serious liposuction. Not that there's anything wrong with that.....:rolleyes

Are these open containers we're talking about? Just kidding. We're telling Muslims they can live in this country and then we're telling them to compromise their beliefs because ours are different? Clearly they should find another vocation, but they shouldn't be legally banned from being cabbies if they want to. However, if they are going to discriminate against people who carry alcoholic beverages (not medicinal alcohol, right?), they should disclose it in some way to the general cab riding public. Live and let live. Sensible respect of everyone's rights - not just Muslims and not just non-Muslims.

Poor Green!! If you were throwing up, I'd think that the physical force of that would cause additional pain in the area. Makes me want to curl up just thinking about it. Sounds like Green doesn't do anesthetic well. I too used to have very painful menstrual cramps and often wound up tossing my cookies on the first day and then lying in bed for hours, curled up with a heating pad and cup of hot tea that me mum would provide. I sure miss that precious woman.

Green, I defer to you on the pain part. I have no idea what kind of procedure was used in France for you. I have had a D&C, which when I asked, was told that it is much like the abortion procedure. Some anesthetic was used and I did not feel the procedure. Afterwards there was cramping, somewhat heavier than during my menstural cycle. Uncomfortable, but not unbearable. They gave me a mild over the counter pain killer which took the edge off. Perhaps I have been under an incorrect impression all these years about how painful an abortion procedure is. I only know personally of this experience and of those of friends of mine who have had abortions and who said the pain was not extreme. BTW, none of the women I know who have had the procedure regret it. They all are thankful that they had the choice between a relatively simple procedure and a lifetime of regret.

Alexandra: Nicely said. I doubt that there have been any legitimate studies conducted because it would be nearly impossible to document illegal abortions, but it only makes sense that if a woman were to be rendered sterile from abortion (which must only happen in a tiny fraction of cases) the likelihood of that would be far greater with "backstreet" abortions than with medically supervised abortions. The horror stories that are often used to scare women into thinking that abortions are unsafe, painful and possibly that they will cause sterility are simply scare tactics used by people who wish to impose their will upon others. Most abortions do not case sterility. Most abortions are uncomplicated. Most abortions do not cause extreme pain. My guess would also be that the large majority of women who are under enough duress to choose to abort a pregnancy, are not women who will regret their decision. They are women who are thankful that their lives are not forever changed by an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy. Of course there can be complications to any medical procedure. Of course there are women who regret their choice, but that can be true whether a pregnant women chooses to give birth to a baby or one who chooses to terminate a pregnancy. There are so many variables, so many reasons, so many personalities, so many situations that cause women to consider abortion. It is just not compassionate or sane for someone else to make that decision for a woman. It is illegal for people to make that decision for a woman and that is as it should be. What if the government decided that the country is over populated and that women MUST abort pregnancies? It has happened in at least one country. It could, one day, happen here. How would those people who are against abortions feel about being compelled to have one? Outraged? Personally assaulted? Helpless? Well, women who believe they absolutely NEED an abortion, for whatever reason, feel similarly about being told that they may not have one. I repeat my earlier stance on this. Anti-choice people are going to keep on until they cause Americans to rise up against them at the voting booths.

Wheet: Size 10 doesn't seem small to me. My DH is 5'11" and wears a size 7. That might sound small, but did you notice the EEEE part? *wink, wink* BTW, congratulations on your Viking catch!

airwayman: You are SO right on!!

Bush's appointees have to be incompetent idiots. Who else would go along with all the stuff they've done and set themselves up as the fall guys?

Yep MSDad, that's what they always say!! As for the hand thing, shoe sizes and glove sizes are often the same. An old girlfriend of mine (much older than me :heh: ) says she's just thankful that her husband has such a big schnoze... thinking of the time when the viagra no longer works. Oh my goodness, I can't believe I told you that. Hope it isn't too risque for you peeps. I thought it was darned funny. :nervous But maybe it didn't bear repeating.

P.S. Thank you, Eddie. And thanks to Marjon9 and laurend for their caring and thoughtful posts in support of yours.

Eddie you are my hero for taking the time to post your story. There is no question who is the more credible source of information here... you are! I really hate that we have been witness to so much discrimination against gay people during my lifetime. I am like laurend and hope that one day we will all look back at this and be astonished that we were so friggin' stupid and hurtful. Thank God that you have found someone you love and who loves you and that you are able to live together today. When I was young, you probably wouldn't have been able to walk down the street together without suffering some injustice. Today you can go to at least some states and be married. It gives me some hope that things are going to keep improving. We must keep up the fight against discrimination and wacko religious extremists!