BJean

For any of you who are interested, there have been a lot of studies over many, many years about the death penalty and whether it is a deterrent to crime. It has always been shown to not be a deterrent. So if we are in favor of the death penalty, we should not kid ourselves by saying that it is done in order to discourage other potential killers. Several of you who said they're for the death penalty went on to say something about it being done to, in some way, appease the families of the victim. However, in many cases, intelligent people whose family members have been murdered, are not appeased by the imposition of the death penalty on the killer. The most wholesome and effective help that grieving family members can experience is by forgiving the killer. Yes, you got that right. Forgivness. It is healthy, it is lasting and it is what Christ would want. Besides, we should, as someone posted earlier, take the higher ground. We should not be in the business of killing. We may not be able to rehabilitate a killer, but we should not reduce ourselves to taking other people's lives for revenge. Now in the case of Mark. I am completely on his side in the argument that ensued after the exchange between musicalmama and Mark. I'm glad ya'll stopped beating that horse because it was obvious that those of you who persisted in putting him down, were only taking advantage of the situation because you surely couldn't have possibly believed that Mark thinks that killing Christians is acceptable to him. Musicalmama's comment wasn't taken as serious, so Mark's shouldn't have been either. I agree with Mark often, so I'm not a fun debate partner for him. But he brings a lot of interesting viewpoints to the table and he has a great sense of humor. I would be seriously depressed if he disappeared from the scene.

I haven't heard much about him for some time. I guess from the sound of the posts here, he's in ill health? I am so glad that he brought the problem out into the open and helped people think about physician assisted suicide as well as euthanasia. Many of us will have to deal with these decisions at some point in our lives. It is important for us to make our wishes known to our loved ones in case we become incapacitated and are unable to tell our doctors ourselves. Ayers, yours is a powerful post on the subject and I really appreciate everything you said. I have had to watch my dad, my mother and my sister (who was my best friend) die. I too have witnessed the ungodly way we are able to keep some people who are riddled with pain, alive far past when nature intended. Dying with dignity, in a beautiful, respectful, peaceful and loving way is what everyone should want. Not dying in excrutiating pain, without control of bodily functions, without the ability to move about or perhaps even eat or breathe without assistance. What a horrible, inhumane way we've allowed the government (mostly) and medical community (sometimes) to intervene in our impending deaths! I'm with Mark... thank you Jack. I hope you have trained someone to follow in your footsteps, although I doubt if many men are as courageous and caring as you.

396: So you've had a vasectomy... somehow that gives me a feeling of relief. I wish there was some possible way that you could experience becoming impregnated without your consent, then carrying the totally unwanted baby until term, being an unwilling host to a creature growing inside you, making you ill and causing you to lose teeth and acquire hideous stretch marks (that your intimate partner finds disgusting) acquiring hemmoroids and vericose veins, having a pound of flabby stretched out flesh where your flat stomach used to be, going through the fear, uncertainly and physical pain of labor and delivery, having your vagina opening torn up past your anus, wind up with bladder and bowel problems from it, and then cope with having a little person expecting you to take care of their every need for much of the rest of your life. If there was some possible way that you could feel it, know it, experience every single moment and every single aspect of it and you still thought that someone else could make a better decision for you than you could make for yourself, then I'd be willing to take your opinion on this subject a little more seriously. But sorry, you just sound like a little guy who, for whatever reason, likes to think he can force his beliefs about a woman's right to choose on others. Bite me, dude. Where's the nice, warm, runny Brie when you need it?

The only downside for me is all the time I spend on my a$$ at the computer instead of moving my a$$ burning calories. At least we aren't watching TV. I've read that watching TV burnes fewer calories than just about everything! Glad you decided to jump in here. R & R can really bring out the beast in folks. My DH wonders why I've become so much more vocal politically lately. Poor thing. He's a very conservative Catholic, who's worked in the military defense sector and votes Republican. Well they say opposites attract. We're living proof! :biggrin1:

Jasmine- We the people of the United States are the ones who are responsible for the vast numbers of people migrating to our country. It isn't their fault that we have made it so attractive for them to be here illegally. That's one reason calling them unflattering names seems so unfair. But they are here illegally and they aren't natives. Just like Hurricane Katrina victims, they don't deserve our scorn. But it is still a huge drain on resources. And as for the illegal immigrants, it is hugely unfair to all of the people who have spent the money, done all the work and jumped the hurdles to become legal citizens of the U.S. But I'm stating the obvious. I just wanted you to know that I do not blame illegal aliens - or undocumented immigrants - for their plight.

The words "illegal alien" may be distasteful to you because of the connotations - not just the words per se. But to me, calling them undocumented immigrants doesn't feel right. To say they are immigrants is to say they have immigrated. How can that be correct since in no way have they legally immigrated - they are not actually new citizens of this country. They are squatters maybe? Of course if you use the term, immigrant, simply to describe one who has migrated north, then I guess it is accurate. I'm sure this will be wildly unpopular for me to post this, but I think many Americans prefer the term "illegal alien" to "undocumented immigrant" because it is such an emotionally charged issue.

Yo mama!!!!

Green in theory I completely agree with you. Mexico is a beautiful country, loaded with so many beautiful people and with a fascinating colorful history. The fact is, I have a little personal knowledge of the corruption in government there, and I have heard about it being an even more prevalent and widespread problem than just the local gendarmes. I am not sure how our two countries can work things out for the little people, when the boys at the top of both our countries are so fat and happy with the status quo.

Carlene it doesn't surprise me one bit that Pat Robertson's outfit operates like that. Personally I think he is very slimey and disengenuous. I know people who truly worship the man. There has to be something different going on in their brains and mine, because it just makes no sense at all to me. Oral Roberts' counting room was filled with people ripping open and counting. I do not know what they did with all of the prayer requests but I will ask my SIL. I think some of these evangilists start out with passion for Jesus and God's word, but they get blinded by all the $$$s and that becomes their mission. With Pat Robertson, his mission is not only to amass wealth however, he wants political power too. Obviously he's accomplished both goals.

Trust me lifelongband, you did GREAT!!!

Funny thing about televangelists, if someone is cured they take all the credit, if they are not cured it is because of the lack of faith by the sick person. That whole mindset reminds me of people who pray to God that they win the ballgame. If they win, they thank God. If they lose, it's because they must not have had enough faith so that God would help them. I've never heard them consider the idea that the other team might have more faith and therefore God answered THEIR prayers first. When Oral Roberts got started in tents, he was incredibly believable and charismatic. Then he went on local TV and one of his lines was, "Put your hands on your television while I pray for you and you will be healed." My SIL worked for him right out of college. She was one of the "counters." She opened envelopes and tallied the take. It was a large secure room and it was just brimming with cash. They treated her like a convict. It was bizzare! Reminded us of Scrooge McDuck.

Very well said, Green. Generally speaking (dumb to do, I know) Americans do not think as globally as Europeans and I guess some Canadiens do, at least in terms of our nation wanting open borders and allowing pretty much just anybody to become an American citizen. We are very self-centered. We love our country and we love our way of life. Anything that threatens us will cause Americans to rise up en masse against that threat. (That's why initially, on Bush's word, most Americans approved of our attacks on Iraq. I must add that I never did.) Having millions of illegals in this country is infuriating because of the work we do to keep America great, and all of these unaccounted for people are not contributing (as far as we're concerned) to keeping America great. Although that seems to be the consensus about illegal aliens for some of us, it also seems that Dubya, and some Congress people think having them here to keep the cost of labor down is contributing to America's greatness. Well if we can believe him and Congress that the definition of greatness in America is capitalism, I guess they're right.

Dynamo: Sadly to say, no I am not recommitted. Everyday I start out that way. I am sure that I need a fill. I keep saying next week. But I promise I am going to call tomorrow for a fill next week. That will also involve a visit with the nutritionist. She's a stern taskmaster. But that's not the most important part. I can go over my symptoms and she will help me figure out why I'm having this problem! But I am in a much better mood and feeling like I'm beginning to understand better what's going on here. Sorry you didn't have a restful night. A very good women's wellness doctor I used to see says that sleeping straight through the night is a crucial component to a woman's healthy life. Something (it's been a while) about elevated cortisol and other hormones being out of whack that make it a problem, especially when you are worrying about the risk of cancer. So if you have to take something to get a good nights' rest, do it. Be careful of taking Tylenol PM though. Tylenol is hard on your liver. The main ingredient in Tylenol PM that causes you to sleep is Benadryl and so just take some Benadryl. Preachy little thing ain't I? Sorry about that. I'm just passing along information because I've had that problem, including lactose intolerance, in the past.

Tami: I believe you would feel tighter because water tends to keep the area opened up. That's why a lot of overweight people drink a lot with meals even without the band. It allows you to eat more. That is also why we are told not to drink anything closer than 15 min. from mealtime and not to drink during meals. If you drink during a meal you are much more prone to overeating. This is what the nutritionist preaches and also what my experience confirms. I definitely agree that if you do drink plenty of water after about 1.5 hrs after a meal, and early enough before meals, you will do much better. I have had a hard time doing that. I need to focus more on water and less on what I can eat.

Sweet dreams, Dynamo! Hope I didn't give you nightmares!

Uh oh I jumped in and posted over at the illegal alien thread instead of here where all this is actually going on. How'd this bleed over into the God Bless Jerry Falwell's thread anyway? Do we need some Limburger here too?

GREEN!!!!!! Stop being in denial. You have a bug!!! The weight loss is great and at first that seems cool enough to put up with the inconvenience of the cramping and diarrea. But believe me it can get much worse! When we lived in Arizona, we met friends of ours in Juarez and spent the weekend. I was careful about everything I ate or drank... until we went to the dog races. I decided to have one margarita on the rocks, then two and as the races got more exciting and I got more buzzed, I wound up forgetting all the admonitions to not eat the ice or drink the water. I did both. Back home about a month later, I had those symptoms you talked about. I only weighed about 110 lbs. then and I began losing weight. It got gradually worse and I was a realtor trying to sit open houses and squire families around town to look at houses. I knew every open house with a bathroom. It finally got so bad and so painful that I couldn't take a sip of water without the terrible abdominal cramping. In fact, I couldn't even THINK about eating or drinking without triggering the by then, horrible cramps. My doc gave me the little "kit" and directions for harvesting a sample to determine exactly what kind of bug had invaded my body and was using me as a host. In all, I spent about 3 months going through all the extremely powerful medicines prescribed before I got the thing in check. By then I had lost so much weight I hardly looked like myself. This is not a laughing matter and it isn't something you need to fool around with. Your husbands leftover meds aren't going to do the trick. For gosh sakes, get the specimen and get it to the lab. They won't have the results overnight as it is. You need to kill off the little bugger(s) and get your life back! Your health is much more important than anything else you have! Please let us know that you've done your "dooty" and you're on the road to getting this thing whipped! Did I ever tell you about the fella that got a tape worm when he was in a foreign country? Well he went to the doc and the doctor said, son we can do this one of two ways... the short 3-day way, or the longer 3-week way. The man said I'll choose the short 3-day way! The doctor said, it is very unpleasant... you'll have to keep your resolve all the way until it's totally completed. But the man said, I can do it whatever it is. Just tell me what I have to do and I'll do it. The doctor said, okay now do exactly as I tell you. Go out and buy a quart of vanilla ice cream and a lemon cookie and come back to my office right away. So the fella did as he was told. When he returned to the doctor's office the doc said, okay now drop your pants and bend over. The guy did as he was told. The doctor took the quart of ice cream and put it right you-know-where. Then he jammed the lemon cookie right onto the ice cream. The doc said, now pull up your pants - don't bathe or do anything else. Come back tomorrow at this same time and bring another quart of ice cream and a lemon cookie. The guy couldn't believe it. But hey this was a reputable doc and the he was desparate. The next day he showed up at the doctor's office with the ice cream and lemon cookie. The doc instructed him to drop his pants and bend over. He shoved the ice cream where the sun don't shine and poked in the lemon cookie. He told the guy to not shower and come back tomorrow for his 3rd and final treatment. The next day the worried patient showed up, as before with the quart of ice cream and lemon cookie. The doctor directed him, as before, to drop his pants and bend over. Then the doctor went at him with the quart of ice cream. Then he waited... he waited... he waited... and the next thing you know, the tape worm stuck his head out and said, where's my lemon cookie? The doctor smashed him and the fella was cured! Well, my daddy always said there was humor in everything. He also said the first time he heard that story he kicked the slats out of his cradle.

Bubble, why do you ask others what they're doing about the situation? What are YOU doing, besides ranting and raving and blaming the illegal aliens for all the problems in your part of the world? Do you really think that pointing out the horrors of the situation is going to fix it? Do you think that telling us how bad it is where you live is going to make us look at all Mexicans the way you seem to? Why aren't you more angry at the government of your own country for not enforcing the laws and in fact encouraging illegal aliens from Mexico to come here and work and get other benefits? Why aren't you screaming from the rooftops about who is really to blame? It reminds me of a place where I lived in Florida. They did not enforce the speed limit law or the law against running a red light. They didn't want to discourage tourism, which was a billion dollar a year industry. There were tons of accidents every week because everyone knew these laws weren't enforced and so they chose to drive above the speed limit and run red lights because they were always late for something. Yeah, the lawbreakers were wrong and were in fact, breaking the law, but who could blame them? They were essentially encouraged since everyone did it and they knew the laws weren't to be taken seriously because even the cops broke those laws and never enforced them. It wouldn't have done one bit of good for me to rant and rave about the lousy drivers and the accidents they caused and rant and rave about the fact that they were breaking the law - nothing was going to change until the laws were enforced. I started waging a campaign in the letters to the editor sections of the newspapers. Other people chimed in. Then more people started talking about the fact that there would be fewer accidents if these laws were enforced. One thing led to another and in a few years, the local government decided that they had to start enforcing the motor vehicle laws. Once people realized that they could be ticketed for breaking one of those laws, they stopped breaking them so often. Traffic accidents didn't cease to exist, but there were fewer accidents related to speeding and running red lights. But it didn't happen because I went online (or anywhere else) and bitched about the bad drivers.

Sure, hon. Stop eating and exercise. Simple, eh? I joke with you. You'll have to excuse me. I've hit a wall lately. You sound like you're doing okay. Not the wildly successful huge loss that some people here have been able to manage, but 30 lbs lighter is nothing to sneeze at!

This is sounding so silly. I honestly don't think that Bubble and Tommy are communicating well. Lots of assumptions and guesses and finger pointing about what each other were originally trying to say. Now it's gotten out of hand and the right wing neo-cons are gleefully jumping into the fray. If you're having fun, far be it for me to highjack anything. But I hate for everyone to be having fun without me. What can I think of to say that might inflame everyone? LIMBURGER!!! By the way Bubble, why are you neverendingly so accusatory about what exactly Tommy does to help unfortunate illegal aliens? He doesn't have to help people in order to have an opinion. Or to feel compassionate. I feel compassion for some of the illegal aliens and I don't do a thang for them. Well, that may not be entirely true, I've been involved in presenting some scholarships to a few of their children. Of course that's only encouraging them and that's not what you're all about, right?

Mimin: I can't imagine how fabulous it would feel to lose over 8 lbs. in a week!!! No wonder you're looking so great. You're a freak though - no doubt in my mind. Kidding!!!!!!

Carlene: With your reflux, was it at night after you laid down in bed? Did you actually have normal reflux, with burning, etc.? I didn't have any idea that I was experiencing reflux until the nutritionist asked me if I ever cough up white stuff. I said I do sometimes and she said that it is acid reflux. I had a hiatal hernia for years before the LB surgery and the doc repaired it at the same time he placed the LB. Am I just overeating and that's what's causing the problem? I know before when I was losing at a good pace, I didn't seem to have this problem. Sorry if I'm grossing everyone out, but I am afraid I have a problem and I'd like to figure it out because I am so busy with a new business that I'm having a hard time getting away from it all and getting into the doc's office.

Morsaille: You are not only aces at computer picture posting, you give good bandster words of wisdom. I beat anexoria ass well. Before ever getting the band when I would work hard at losing some lbs, as soon as I realized a decent loss I would binge until I undid all my good work. I stopped getting on the scale because of it. You know the accepted wisdom is that we sabbotage ourselves because it is "all in our heads" but I am not so sure about that. I think there is a whole lot of psysiological/biochemical stuff that we have no clue about. I honestly think that all this is very complicated. We just try to think that it is simple - calories in, calories out but I just don't think it's that simple.

Thanks you all. I'm rather discouraged with myself. I'm floundering and have been for several months now. Before, when I was losing consistently I couldn't understand why people would sabbotage their band. It just didn't make sense to me. Well, it still doesn't but now I have found that I am doing just that. Carlene: what happened that you had to get an unfill? I've begun to wonder if I don't have something else going on. I keep blaming it on my head, but I know it isn't entirely that. The way I feel now is different when I eat than it was for the first 7 months. I'm definitely having more problems than just the hunger.

Michelle, I can't begin to imagine what it would be like if my husband died. I went through a lot when my sister and mom died, but losing DH would be like part of me dying. I am so glad to hear that you are finally beginning to see the beauty of life again and to care enough that you want to be healthy and happy again. You seem to have such a beautiful soul and you are so supportive and helpful to others. I am very glad you're a part of the group at LBT. Hugs to you too! Green: Your report from your recent doctor visit gave me a horrible jolt. You and I were, at one time, at about the same weight with practically the same weight loss since our surgeries in Sept. Now I'm still where I was and you've moved on and I realize that I could also have been at 155 now if I had not lost it somewhere along the line. So don't just be happy about where you are, rejoice with all your might!! You've accomplished a whole lot and it's great!! My hat is off to you!