BJean

TinK: Thanks for your kind sentiments. Admittedly it has been rough to go through the deaths of my dad, my mother and my sister, and to now watch my MIL deteriorate. I agree with much of what you said. I didn't actually say that I am a big proponent of euthanasia. I agree that people should make their wishes known as well as they can and that we should all have a Living Will and a DNR if we believe that we do not wish to be kept alive artificially when there is no hope for recovery. I do have a big problem with keeping people alive like they kept my Dad alive. My MIL may still have the ability to fight back from her current problems. Having her doctor treat her with less than total respect is very hard to take, though. Aging people are not attractive, by society's standards and they have a hard time standing up for themselves, especially when they are sick. And they are discriminated against everywhere, just as fat people are. When there is a person who is in the hospital or a nursing home and the person is in relentless pain, with no chance of eventual recovery, I believe it is inhumane to keep them alive artificially. I cannot believe that my God would want that for any of us, despite passages in the Bible that may indicate otherwise. Putting it in writing does not assure the patient or the family that their wishes will always be respected, as proved in the case of my Dad. Some compassion must be felt for them by the people attending to their care. The fact is, as several who have posted here say, many health care professionals do have compassion and will not allow a patient to die a horrible, painful, long-drawn out death. Some of the medical profession cannot be trusted to put the patient first, however. That's why we need to make this a political issue. It's something most of us will have to deal with in our lifetime, either by ourselves or through someone we love. If God were here in person, talking responsibility for each and every human being and making a judgment call for each human being at these critical times, then I would say that we should turn it over to him. But he isn't here physically except in our minds and in our hearts, and we are only fallible human beings.

Nope, never had the occasion to meet the beautiful one. However my son was in the movie. No speaking lines. But what the hey, worth mentioning. Also worth mentioning is that I did see Led Zepplin in concert. Holey freaking freeholies - it was incredible. It even stands way out from the fantastic concerts that they stage today. Moody Blues was also another amazing concert. They oversold the tickets and I watched people put their elbows through the glass so they could break in - I was right behind them. They actually allowed the show to go on. Standing room only, even in the nosebleed seats and everyone got seriously stoned and back then some of the freaks were doing "hand trips." Very far out. But now that I'm more adult, a serious fire hazard. I saw Edgar Winter and White Trash in Richmond and their opening act was Don McLean. Can you even imagine? Don McLean was booed off the stage by all the freaks and in the women's rest room, I saw girls shooting up and snorting all manner of weird substances. Scared the living hell out of me. Leon Russell did a great concert in Tulsa that I saw outside, elbow to elbow with lots of crazy dudes. They passed pipes, cigarettes, and other things that I did not know existed. I survived the experience, but I was really afraid that big brother was watching my every move. Dude! This is way more fun than talking about books! Not exactly intellectual, but Memory Lane can be a good place to take a walk now and then.

Butterfly you just made my day! Everything you told us about your interaction with your two kids, sounds fantastic. Your responses to their reaching out to you were perfect and it means so much to them in this very upsetting time in their lives. They need to be able to grouse about their dad to someone and it is the best possible scenario is if they are able to talk with you about him without any criticism or any "I told you so's" You did GREAT!!! You're going to be going through lots of stages during this time of transition. You're bound to want to vent and get it all off your chest. This is a great place to do it. I think all you'll get is support from the good people here. In fact, many of us have been through similar experiences and know how difficult this whole thing is for you. I am so impressed too when I looked and noticed your 91 lb. loss!!!! Eat my heart out! I know you're concerned because you're forgetting to eat, and you do need to keep your metabolism up and running, but it sure sounds good to me to be in a place where you're not consumed with thoughts about where you're going to find the next great thing to eat. Any advice for me about that? I was banded in September and I've lost around 40 lbs., all in the first few months. The last 3 months I have not lost a pound.

Yup, that's their M.O. I'm sorry to know that it happened to someone in your state. I always hold out hope that the public sees through that crap. But the fact is, most people want to believe the worst about people. The arse-holes plant a lie in with something that is actually true and it is almost impossible to fix the damage it does.

Boy am I out of touch with that party. Who's Harold Ford, Jr. and what's he up to?

Butterfly your last post sounded lots better. And things will continue to get better. It won't be easy and it will never be the same, but it can be better even if it is different. I never, ever spoke badly to my son about his biological father. Finally when he got old enough to think about that he asked me the question I'd been waiting for. He said, "Mom, if Dad is such a nice guy and you don't dislike him, why did you get a divorce?" That was my cue. I finally explained to him, gently, what all his father had done to cause the divorce. He didn't understand everything of course, but he began to understand a little. Now he is an adult and his biological father has tried to all of a sudden be a part of his life. The biological father is extremely religious and has tried to give my son all kinds of advice about how he should live his life and be more religious, etc. Now my son says to me, "how did you EVER love him?" You will be so much better off in the long run if you stick to your policy of not putting him down to them. They will, before too long, put two and two together and you will look like a saint to them, compared to him. A good friend of mine and her husband divorced when her kids were just entering college. The kids decided to live with him. They were old enough to choose. She was extremely hurt, but she understood because he had money and resources. He was happy and not struggling with anything. She was poor, living in a small apartment (away from their kids' friends.) The dad was having a free, exciting bachelor life. She was trying to figure out how she was going to survive. Then she had to have both knees replaced not long after the divorce. Neither of her children, or her ex-husband were willing to help her out. She did all of the rehab on her own. She struggled through it for months and just about the time she thought she wouldn't be able to do it, she realized how strong she was and that she actually COULD do it. She and her kids are now closer than ever. They don't live with either of their parents now (the father wound up driving them crazy with his demands) but they spend almost all their free time with her. Think about it for a minute. If you're a young person, where would you rather be? Hanging at a place where things are upbeat, where there's no sadness, no stress? Or at a place with someone who is deeply wounded and frightened and stressed? It doesn't have anything to do with their feelings for you. They probably love you a whole, whole lot. But they are just trying to survive in all of this too. And the most comfortable place they can be, in their previous home, is what feels the most stable for them right now. Once you get into a more comfortable routine and you find your way and start working toward the goals you wish to achieve, you will be happier and they will be more comfortable being around you. Right now, it is very important that you heal from the divorce. You are undoubtedly wounded and have so much to sort out in order to map out the rest of your life. Take this time to get it together and I think you'll realize, like my friend did, that the divorce may have been the best thing that ever happened to you.

Laurend: Recent history tells us that the Republicans will pull out all the stops to retain control of the White House. Right now it is early and they are pretty much playing by the book. But it will change when things get closer and tighter. They will wage a war over the internet. In the past they've done everything you can imagine to plant doubt in the voters' minds about the opposition. They do not mind concocting very believable stories about the Democratic candidate. During Nixon's time they did it with snail mail. This time it will be through emails. They managed to do it to Kerry, horribly, and it worked. Although I'm the first to admit that Kerry was a weak debater and his campaign retoric became very stilted toward the latter part of his campaign. It has to be awfully difficult to go through what he and his wife went through in that campaign. Al Gore made mistakes too. His first mistake was not allowing Bill Clinton to go out and stump for him. He under estimated the power of Clinton's popularity. But what really beat both of them was the extremely powerful and united front that the Republicans had. The fact that they have such an unpopular President at this point may cause them to splinter a bit which would hurt them. But I don't think that is likely because in these early debates, all the Republican candidates have the platform down pat. None of them seems to be willing to buck the Republican machine. And who can blame them? They could probably never get elected without it. But after all my yammering, I just want to say that many people think that a Democrat is a shoo-in, and I absolutely believe that it is too early to know for sure because there is no end the political dirty tricks that the Republican party is capable of. (No, Democrats are not immune to dirty politics, but in the past they were not willing to go to the extremely dishonest lengths that the Republicans were.)

laurend, I'm not like Carlene. I didn't want anyone to know. I've suffered too many diet failures and had to face people afterwards. I didn't know if this would work for me and I just didn't want to have to deal with the comments and questions. As it is, I told a couple of women who are neighbors and I don't see them very frequently. So everytime I see them, they check me out and wonder how much weight I've lost. Well I haven't lost ANY in the last 3 months so now I have to explain what's going on and assure them that I have not given up the fight. I can do it, but I wish it weren't a topic of conversation. If they thought I'd just lost some weight, they'd be impressed right now. As it is, they're wondering why I'm not losing more. I too used to cry when I got very angry. I am certainly over that now. And as you get older and more self-confident about your own intellect and ability to deal with stupid, cruel people, you will get over it too. Bitter has it spot on. We shouldn't care what others think, probably especially those in our families who should be our support system. As I've gotten older I'm almost too outspoken when someone ticks me off. I think I scare some younger people because they're so used to being terribly sweet to keep the peace. Like I USED to be. Believe me you do not have to hurt someone's feelings though just to keep from being hurt yourself. Just listen to Bitter. I honestly think she's right about this. You can always just get up and leave the room if someone brings it up and you don't want to talk about it. You can tell them that you have to go PB, but then you don't have to actually DO it. They aren't worth the waste of good chow.

One word: Homophobia. It's a hold over from years and years of men being scared to death that gay men are going to hit on them, I guess. I mean nothing else makes any sense to me. Of course that is an extremely ignorant thought process, but what else is there? All this talk about gays not being allowed to marry is another stupid, stupid issue. When you confront those who argue against it, and ask why gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, they come up with all manner of bogus reasons, like higher health insurance premiums because of AIDS, etc. Right wingers will narrow-mindedly argue that God didn't create Adam and Adam, He created Adam and Eve. Boggles the mind, doesn't it. Sometimes the stupidity in this country makes me want to cry. If Americans don't get rid of this administration in the next elections, I am clearly in the wrong country.

I just watched a debate on whether the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy should continue in the military. Democrats against it, saying gays and lesbians should be able to serve in the military and be open about their sexual preferences. The Republicans say that they should not and that the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy is working. However the question came up partially because some very needed linguists were discharged recently because they came out. Also it was brought up that a lot of gays and lesbians served in Iraq and then were discharged when they came home because they were known to be gays and lesbians. How can anyone in their right mind think that excluding gays and lesbians in the military is the right thing? Other countries have an open policy in their militaries without regard to sexual preferences. Are we living in the dark ages, or what? Who are we to go telling other countries that they do not practice good humanitarian policies when we disciminate against a whole segment of society, based on their sexual preferences?

I wish some of the other young movie stars would learn a lesson from this. If she had been allowed to come home with an electronic bracelet, they sure wouldn't have learned anything. Maybe the judge was trying to make an example of her - afterall she's the ring leader. Whatever Paris does, so goes the rest of the tribe. She has several things going for her (that the public, especially teenage girls are impressed with) and that's why she gets so much media coverage: 1. She's rich. 2. She has tons of self-confidence. 3. She loves all the publicity. I think she's one of those people who would rather have bad publicity than no publicity. Didn't they say that she wasn't really unhappy that her sex tape was all over the internet? 4. She's tall. 5. She's skinny. She can wear all the designer fashions and by wearing them and posing for the cameras constantly, she gets the designers publicity. They feed on each other. 6. Because she gets all the attention she wants, she gets to drag out all the newest fads first and whatever Paris considers cool, is bought by other young girls, all across the country. Once she showed up with her puppy in a designer puppy carrier, all the little starlets had to have puppies in pretty little puppy purses. Now young girls all over America are doing it (at least in my town.) 7. She's such an anomaly, even we people here at LBT are talking about her. Go figure.

That's truly commendable gadget. How many babies of different ethnic origins have you adopted to date? I think it's great that you've put your money where your mouth is.

I have a solution. All those pro-lifers up in Alberta can really put their beliefs to the test and up the population of their country in one fell swoop. They must each pledge to support a minimum of 2 unplanned recently impregnanted women in the U.S. They will pay for food, clothing, medical care (including vitamins) and housing for the women while they are pregnant. Then pay for the medical for the newborn infant and pick them up at the hospital (of the biological mother's choice) as soon as they are physically able to leave hospital. Then they must legally adopt that infant and take care of them until they are fully grown, send them to college, pay for their wedding (if the child chooses), babysit the grandchildren. But they must vow to never dampen the doorstep of the biological mother, ever. Everyone wins.

Never heard of Bentley Little. You make me want to check his stuff out. I'm not a big Steven King fan, but enjoyed some of his movies - probably because I hadn't read the books. I'm like you laurend, I can't put a book down until I finish it, if it's a book I really like. Enjoy James Patterson a lot too. I've read all of Patricia Cornwell's books although there have been a couple of clinkers in there.

I just wanted to mention a sort of unbelievable NSV that I had at the exercise physiologist's last Thurs. I've seen her 3 times since surgery. Each time she measures half a dozen places on my bod to see about overall loss of inches. Each time I've seen her, I've lost one inch in my NECK!!! A total of 3 inches in my neck! She's shocked each time. She says it is much more normal to see 1/8th inch to 1/2 inch change each time, at most. And although I hadn't lost weight since I saw her last, I had lost inches all over except in my waist. So the water aerobics have helped some. All in all much better report than I expected! It really helped to have some positive news.

Yeaaaaa, Carlene... just what the doctor (or Nurse Ratchet) ordered!!! Now hop to it, Green. Oooh Carlene, your gym/spa sounds fabulous. Do you mind me asking which one? We almost live in the same neighborhood, I think. I'm going to be going to Larry North in Southlake for a while, but I hope to be looking for one with more amenities after that. Your jeans getting more comfortable yet?

Butch: The only good that comes of it for me is that I get to vent my spleen and I also get to know about the latest stuff is that is going on within the anti-abortion movement. Their tactics make me furious but it's stuff that we need to know is going on. You are right though - I doubt seriously if anyone's mind is changed one way or the other. We've all formed our own opinions and beliefs about the subject by our particular exposure to the question from the clergy, the news media, our friends, our families, our own personal experiences and from (in some cases) careful study of the issue. A few posts here aren't likely to change those beliefs. Btw, I went to high school with a Butch Stepp. That isn't you, is it?

tink: No the doctor was not prosecuted. None of the administrative staff or the medical staff in the hospital would have dreamed of bringing that guy before the Medical board much less a court of law! The medical profession does not work that way. It is almost always up to the patient or his family to do the dirty work. That is one reason so many doctors get away with making terribly poor decisions with not even a slap on the wrist. That's a good reason for not putting limits on monetary judgements in malpractice suits. It's one of the few checks and balances we have as a society when it comes to this very powerful profession. Of course, we didn't exercise that right in my own father's case. I don't believe that most other people, who have legitimate reasons, exercise that right either. Right now in America we are governed by the insurance companies with regard to our medical care. We are also pretty much dictated to by doctors. We have to be pro-active when it comes to our health. It isn't easy, but it is absolutely necessary. In fact just last night my MIL, who is in the hospital after falling and breaking her pelvis and spending time in a nursing home (supposedly for rehab.) Most of her family has no experience with doctors, hospitals or nursing homes. My DH and I showed up at the nursing home last Sunday afternoon to find her all alone, in bed, still in her nightgown, and in excrutiating pain. She was nearly delirious and her blood pressure, as it turned out was 208/174. Her left shoulder was causing intense pain, coming in waves. We sprung into action, got her some immediate help from the nursing staff. Once they realized the condition she was in, a doctor was summoned right away. They took her blood pressure with every type of blood pressure monitor they had available. Her stomach was bloated as if she were 8 months pregnant. She said it had been that way for 3 days. No one in the family had noticed it - including us. They rushed her to intensive care in the hospital and did lots of emergency tests. She's now in a hospital bed after the discovery that she had an intestinal blockage. They determined that her shoulder pain was caused from deferred pain from the gas in her intestinal tract. She also had a bladder infection. (TOM said on another thread a while back that if you ever have a family member in a nursing home, watch out for bladder infections - patients always get them in nursing homes because of the staff not making sure that they are hydrated because they don't want to change their clothes or bedding often - how right he was!) We think the reason she didn't have another stroke (first one was in Dec.) or heart attack was because she was on so much coumadin. (blood thinner) This is Saturday. She is still in the hospital and being kept on lots of pain medication to manage the pain, but they told us that the pain medication that she was taking before the fall and pelvis break, probably caused the fall as well as the intestinal blockage. We're now being told that if she won't allow surgery for exploratory purposes, she will be discharged from the hospital right away. We have located a better rehabilitative nursing home (we hope), but she's in no shape to be moved anywhere and what possible good at this point would surgery do? She's 81 and very fraile. I would love to be able to tell you that our experiences are different than most. It just isn't true. We are no more or less savvy than the next person when it comes to medical care. Our experiences are very likely the norm. I know we were talking about euthanasia, but I can tell you that right now after what this poor, tiny fragile woman has been through, she'd implore him to rescue her and put her out of her misery, if she could. As it is, she will probably live months, perhaps years, longer in a nursing home, in pain and being treated worse than an animal. Do you really think that is what God wants for this woman?

Green if I could get hold of you right now, I'd paddle your fanny! Well, that's an exaggeration, I'd probably just get in your face, scold you and wag my index finger at you. Where's Carlene when you need her? You really cannot put this off any longer. I know you're loving the weight loss, but you can get yourself in a dehydrated and potassium depleted state that can be life threatening. Harvesting your own doody is not like flirting with an Italian Stallion (I probably shouldn't even put it in the same sentence!) but it is a necessary evil just like flirting. Please take the time to just DO it! You will be so glad you did, even though the whole thing is a bit degrading. Remember, you need to refrigerate it if you aren't taking it to the lab immediately. Don't make the same mistake I did and after placing it in the proper container, placing it in another sealed plastic bag and then in a taped down non-descript brown paper bag, then reveal to your DH what's in that bag. Don't do it. Big mistake. To all you potential and new bandsters: I have never heard anyone say that you have to give up red meat forever. Although it probably wouldn't hurt any of us to do that. Chicken used to be an almost daily part of my diet before the band. I've been banded since September and I still can't eat chicken easily. But the first meat I was able to eat comfortably was a ground beef pattie. Later I learned how to eat filet mignon. Fish of some kinds are easier to eat than any other serious protein source, except when my band was too tight recently. I found that mahi-mahi and talapia both made me PB. (That is a pretty descriptive term for what we do - it's better than "upchuck" and not like a true vomiting session.) The most important thing you should keep in mind is that you do not want to do that - PB - if you can possibly avoid it (and you can.) My doctor gave me a refrigerated medication that is good for one year. If I contract a tummy virus, I was told not to allow myself to vomit. If you get into a real problem with continual vomiting, you could cause the band to slip and we don't want that. My nutritionist harps over and over to all of the patients that the size of the bite that we should be trying to eat is half (yep, one-half) the size of a carrot coin. It should take us about 45 minutes to eat a meal, but no longer than that. The best advice you can get here at LBT though is to listen closely to what YOUR doctor tells you to do and follow HIS advice. If he has told you not to eat red meat, be sure you understand his reasoning before you go off and try to do it. He may know something about your particular case that we don't know. As for the gas and left shoulder pain that most LB patients have after surgery, it took me almost exactly one week to get it all out of my system and no longer have the pain. I had read that the more you walk, the quicker you get rid of it. I was pretty sedentary at first, but some people are very active right away. They're the ones who have very little problem with the deferred pain from the gas. I also did not take ANY pain medication after I left the hospital. Not even over the counter stuff. Just didn't need it. I could use it right now just for the buzz but I hate trippin' alone. :heh::heh::heh: Green, don't make me come up there!

Unfortunately I guess they're everywhere. Not just in Iran or the southern parts of the U.S.A. Oh yeah, except maybe for Canada. They seem to be all over it there, from Green's teachings anyway.

laurend when I was in high school I belonged to the First Christian Church which was a part of the Disciples of Christ organization. In our little southern town, our minister spent a lot of time speaking to the congregation about tolerance and love and forgiveness. Bias of any kind was not acceptable. I was married in the First Baptist Church into a very conservative, religious family. They practically owned their own pew in their very large church. The atmosphere in that church was quite a contrast to the First Methodist Church's teachings and the First Christian Church's teachings. That Baptist Church, which was a fundamentalist Southern Baptist Church, was all hell, fire and brimstone. I could tell you some stories that would raise the hair on your arms.

Wow, laurend, you win!! I have the most incredible risotto recipe with mushrooms and asparagus - and a nice Parmesan Reggiano in wide shavings over the top. It doesn't get much better than that, does it? Have you ever had crispy penne pasta? I had it at the Hollywood Athletic Club, in LA. The way it is cooked with a honest-to-goodness parmesan reggiano atop, causes it to be slightly crisp on top, but buttery soft and creamy on the inside. mmmmmmmmm.

You know, as much as I would like to get to know you and share some kind of understanding, I am pretty sure we are just not on the same wave length. Each time we exchange posts, we just get farther apart. Well we can't say it was for lack of trying, can we. You should be proud that your thread got so much attention and lasted so long. But right now, I'd like to discuss a nice, soft, slightly warm French Double Cream Brie, with low-cal water wafers.... mmmmmmm.

I know this thread has become less active lately, but I want to tell you how much it means to me. If I hadn't had you all, who were banded in my same time frame, I am sure I would never have been able to understand so much about this process of the LB. I appreciate each and every post you all make. I am thrilled to read about Tami's and MimNi's fantastic commitment and results. I admire karey's and Sandra's and Shell's and gonnabe's ability to keep on the path and continue to lose when many of us were struggling and not losing. Everything I read here I can relate to in one way or other and I thank you all so much. I hope we won't give it up and will continue to stay in touch and keep abreast (especially MimNi's) of each other's progress. Big hugs to all of you and wish me luck with my new exercise program that starts on the 19th and with my bit of unfill and realization that I was overfilled and not being able to eat real food and so I was hungry all the time. I hope there's someone lurking that this helps. :kiss2::kiss2: :girl_hug::kiss2: :girl_hug::kiss2: :girl_hug::kiss2: :girl_hug: (That's all the hugs and kisses - anymore would scare everybody!)

Gee dude, who said it was your fault? It is what it is. We are who we are. You are very happy with your belief on the subject, proud and vocal. When you are vocal about a belief that you have, it will obviously cause people to react to you in certain ways. I only meant to say that I thought is was sad that if they are good friends, they didn't feel comfortable sharing a difficult time with you, since you're their friend. You brought up the Bible and I was just observing that Jesus wouldn't condemn his friends for doing something that He believed was wrong. He would be supportive, try to understand, and show them love and acceptance. You're not Jesus, you're just like the rest of us, which is of course, fine. But you're the one who brought the Bible into the discussion and you're the one who chose to tell us about your friends. I didn't want to ignore one of your posts. It seemed very heartfelt.