BJean

Kat: My first husband convinced me to go back to him twice after our divorce. I realized later that I was doing it for my son, not myself, and because of what society thought of divorce. We wound up with 2 divorces, the last time I agreed to go back, I didn't have our previous divorce set aside, as I did the first time. I'm a real slow learner. But he was a very charming and very good looking guy, with lots and lots of potential for leading a charmed life. Too bad for me and our son that charm isn't a good substitute for substance. I won't bore you with the rest of the story, but as ugly as my life with him was, it doesn't hold a candle to what you went through. You can't go through things like that without learning a whole lot in the process. My first marriage to my Ex brought me to the place where I could love and appreciate my second husband, because I probably wouldn't have given him a second look if I had met him first. Not that he isn't good looking, it's just that he is such a solid rock, athletic, conservative guy and that was not appealing when I was very young and wanting to ride in fast cars, if you know what I mean.

Ah yes, now that you mention it, Green, I do remember that quote as having been said by dear ole' Wallis Simpson. The slut. I am sure that she probably impressed Rose Kennedy and that's why Rose adopted that skinny bitch approach to life. Did you know that Wallis Simpson and her abdicated royal had a place in the U.S.? Never having seen her in person, only photos, I can't understand what he saw in her. But then, that brings to mind a more contemporary someone who fell for that "horse" woman, doesn't it? I guess having a few extra lbs and being married to a commoner is not always so bad, by comparison.

Wow Kat, it sounds like you were married to a guy that is just one self-centered, selfish SOB. Since he obviously had no intentions of changing and didn't think it was a problem, and that you should adapt to his wanting a "balanced diet", I don't think you had any choice but to extricate yourself and try to have a happy life without him. I'd be willing to bet that your former husband is a man who is still involved in lots of messed up relationships. Must be a control thing as well as an ego thing. When we had problems, they paled in comparison to what you were dealing with!! Congratulations for being able to get on with your life, both for your sake and those of your children! You must be a strong intelligent woman, thank goodness!

Wow lepez you are awesome. I can't imagine having your job, but I can imagine the emotional rewards of helping sick children and their parents deal with devastating diseases. Thanks for the feedback from my post. I just got a letter from my medical insurance carrier and they're wanting me to participate in a very simple group that promotes wellness. It is probably a good idea, but I think I would rather not focus so much on medical stuff. I enjoy hanging out here and it takes up almost all the free time I have!

I'm exactly what I was last week. Aw, shucks!

I don't know who coined the phrase first, but Rose Kennedy (John's mum) was famous for saying, "A woman can never been too thin or too rich." In fact, she was so obsessed with it, she missed out on many of the family outings. She hardly touched her plate during dinner, chatted a while at the table with all the kids and hubby, and then retired to her room so that she wouldn't be tempted with any other potentially fat-producing behavior. Calista Flockhart is not only skinny, she seems to have trouble even getting her lines out because she's such an uptight beeotch. I think Americans are so obsessed with that waif look because it is practically impossible to achieve unless you are anorexic or close to it. We always seem to want what we can't have. Anyone remember Twiggy? If these wafer thin girls were healthy, it would be different, but many of them are not. They take drugs and eat improperly to stay as skinny as possible. Although there are women who can't gain weight, no matter hard they try and that must be very frustrating, but I just can't relate to the likes of the interior decorator on "Divine Design". She's over 6 feet tall and weighs a buck ten. Frankly it must be a testament to our society that I will say that I would nearly kill to be that skinny. I guess I'm feeling that way today because I just, once again, gave in to my cravings and had some ice cream. I guess on a normal day, I would be satisfied to look like Marilyn Monroe. Didn't she wear a size 14?

Good job Green. You said much better what I've been trying to get across here. Many women are so hurt by their husband's affair, they are willing to throw everything they have, including the well being of their children down the drain. If they would stop and consider the reason for the affair, they will probably find out that their husbands needed something for themselves and that it is often not because they don't love their wife and children. Wronged women are quick to fill up with hurt and bitterness and it makes them feel better to "kick him to the curb". Unfortunately her friends and family are usually in support of that action. When one part of a couple has been "wronged" it would be better for both people if they would step back and take a good long look at the whole situation before they make any major decisions. Believe me, this is the voice of experience talking here. If we had not been willing to do that when our marriage broke down, we would have missed out on over 30 years of having a better marriage than we ever dreamed possible. As for the man or woman who has been stepping out with someone who has, over the course of a few months made them feel great, the odds are completely against that new relationship ever working out, even if a divorce occurs.

The way I have usually communicated with a partner is after we are both happily "finished" and we're feeling close and trusting, I begin with explaining that I'm kinda shy in the talking about it department. (I am very careful how I say things, always very soft and meek.) I've never been great at approaching things in a clinical or straightforward way. I'm more of a shy, catch me if you can, style grrl. So I smile sweetly and talk about how great things were, or weren't, and say something like, "Is there anything I could do differently that would make it better for you? If they play it shy too, then I try to get him to open up by asking if I could have done it slower or perhaps faster? Harder or maybe softer? Further up or maybe further down? Anything in particular that you'd like me to try?" That usually opens up a dialogue and hopefully if I am dissatisfied with something that has gone on, then I can feel comfortable bringing it up too! Good luck!

Terridoodle: Your third paragraph is very powerful. I have known several women who have become so bitter about their unfaithful spouse that not only do they lose their spouse, but they also lose their friends and sometimes even the love and respect of their children. It is very important that we go through the process of figuring out what we need for ourselves after spending so much time invested in someone who became unfaithful. But we need self-respect, but we don't need to become self-centered, hateful human beings. I'm glad you brought this potential side effect, profound bitterness over having a cheating spouse, into the discussion.

Boo: Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. I will certainly be thinking of you too after reading your list. Wanting a divorce is a very emotional place to be. All of the things you listed make you sound very interesting. For you to have lost so much weight and still think of yourself as obese is not too surprising to me. After I had been obese for years, I never really accepted the fact that I was so big. I just kept thinking of myself as just a little overweight. Seeing myself in a photograph was shocking. You have done a great job with your weight loss. With all of the experiences that you've been through, including having a daughter who must offer you many challenges, it is also not surprising that you had to get on the lap band bandwagon. I'm very impressed with your success!

I've noticed that there is a fairly common therapy for couples who have hit an impasse with regard to their sex life. It is suggested that the first step after openly discussing the situation is for the couple to spend some time just hugging, no sex, and no pressure from either person to have sex for a period of several days or weeks. Once two people have disconnected physically, it is very difficult for them to reconnect even once the original (and/or existing) reasons for the disconnect are brought out into the open. That's why counseling is helpful during the process. Sometimes it takes a third unbiased person to help two people figure out what actually got them to the point where one of them or both of them is uncomfortable with, or turned off to, the idea of having sex. There is usually a lot of anger and hurt that need to be dealt with. Getting the emotional problems out of the way is, of course, the first step. The second step is that trust must be established between the couple and during that process, the act of physically touching one another without the ultimate goal of having sex is very important. Anyone else ever heard of this approach?

Really great post, lepez! And Green, you made some excellent points!

lepez: I know you're are right. I have done a lot of research, both reading and seeking answers from doctors. All sources agree with you. As I said, it is completely irrational and possibly just a mind game that I have played with myself to justify NOT losing weight. The mind is a powerful thing. We can understand things intellectually, but emotionally be compeletely irrational. I appreciate hearing your input very much. It has been several years since I went through the research process. As I understand it, there are five kinds of breast cancer. My sister had inflammatory breast cancer. My mother's was different from my sister's, however I don't know for sure if genetics played the same role in both of them, and my maternal grandmother's breast cancer, but I am sure it must be possible. When I had to have a hysterectomy several years ago, one doctor told me that there is a school of thought now that for women who are genetically predisposed to breast cancer, they are thinking that hysterectomys might be a reasonable approach to lowering their chances of getting breast cancer. I haven't read any studies on that topic and I don't know if any have been done. I volunteered for a large study that was being done some years ago, about a certain chemotherapy treatment for genetically predisposed women but I was told I was not a strong enough candidate. Several years later, I also volunteered for the studies that Johns Hopkins did to determine whether I actually was genetically predisposed to breast cancer. I was told again that having one sister, a mother and a grandmother who had it was not a strong enough indication that it is being passed down genetically in my family. I have one sister (and brother) who have not contracted it and my mother had two sisters who did not contract breast cancer. My sister was 49 when she died. She lived through the initial surgery, radiation and chemotherapy and then when it came back, a year and a half later, she went through the most hellacious rounds of chemo and other therapy that I could imagine. She lived 3 years from her first diagnosis to her death. My mom was 69 when she died. She had the surgery and was told that since her lymph nodes were clear and they got all of her cancer, she wouldn't need chemo. She had a few rounds of radiation and within a few months, her cancer metastisized and was in her bones, her brain, her lungs and everywhere else. She died a year and a half after she was initially diagnosed. All I know about my grandmother was that she was hospitalized briefly and died when my mother was 14. So she was pretty young too and I am not sure how long she knew she had it. My friend who also died, discovered her lump and went through chemo, but was gone within 2 years. Anyway, I guess all of this haunts me a little more than I sometimes realize. I do know that breast cancer isn't thought of as a fast growing cancer, but in my experience, it certainly doesn't seem that way. These women were all such wonderful human beings and did so much all their lives for other people. Maybe I'm too selfish and self-centered to die so young. Like they say, only the good die young. Anyway, thanks for letting me vent on the subject. Anytime I mention it, I always learn that someone around me has had to deal with breast cancer in some way. I really appreciate hearing about someone like your sister who is able to conquer it. I am good about self-exams (everyone I know who has been diagnosed, except one, has found their cancer before their mammogram). And I get mammos every year. I know you are diligent too and that is what gives us our best chance for survival if we ever get it. Thanks again for sharing your story with me. It helped me get my head back on straight again!

Good for them for sticking together! He needed to be run out of town!

Thanks Eddie. I'll do that. Btw, you're doing very well, weight-wise!! Good job.

kat: I want to live where you're living!!! We have seriously discussed moving to New Mexico when the DH retires. Have you ever been to Cuchara, CO? I left my heart there once. I've always wished we could live in a place in the mountains, that is, high desert. I love Santa Fe (except for all the stupid transplants, hee, hee) 30 years ago it was wonderful. Do you mind me asking where you live? I imagine it to be a very small town?

As far as I'm concerned, that's harassment! It would be a really crummy thing for a co-worker to say, but for a boss, it's unforgivable!

Eddie if we could roust out T.O.M. I'll bet we could get some mischief going! What's the GLBT? I knew something had to be going on somewhere... it's been too quiet and nice around here! :heh:

claramae: I'll bet you're right about that!

claramae: You and me too!!

I prefer traveling on the economy to tours unless we are very limited with our time. Then I love tours because you get to hit the high spots that you've always read about, which without a tour guide you would probably miss. I'm a bit of an art nut and I love antiques and preserved painted buildings and architecture. So I think Italy is the ticket too. Wish me luck for getting a trip into the works. My son and DIL were offered a wedding trip to anywhere in the world by her boss. They spent a lot of time planning a European trip. Then they decided that the Far East would be exciting and exotic. They finally settled on a road trip across the U.S.A.! Who'd a thunk it? They had a blast. He's a baseball nut and they got to see all of the famous ball fields. Her boss owns commercial real estate across the country and they were treated like royalty in his hotels. They traveled from Florida up the east coast with stops in Petersburg, VA (where we lived when he was little) Washington, D.C., Chantilly, VA (where we lived when he was a middle schooler), New York City, Boston, Kennebunk, MA, Bar Harbor, Bangor, and then headed west across the northern states, saw Niagra Falls, Chicago where they ate at a famous restaurant her boss owns part of, Indiana, Kansas City, parts of Colorado, the Grand Canyon, the Painted Desert, Utah, Lake Tahoe, Seattle, etc. It was a dream trip. They still get out the photos and rave about what a great thrill it was to see so much of the U.S.A. with no serious time or money constraints. (Her boss provided a Visa with a hundred thousand dollar limit for food and incidentals.) I do not have enough of what my mother called "intestinal fortitude" for me to want to travel to 3rd world countries. I don't even aspire to Nepal. I know too many people who have had bad experiences and there are enough well developed places to keep me busy. I know that must sound very silly to you, but I guess I will save them for my next life. Can I live vicariously through you when you tell me about them?

Hey, maybe that's why Gore has his jockey's in a wad... he was planning on fading away on an ice floe. Not a bad idea Green, except for the part about there being no readily available ice floe handy in the 30 or so years that I have left. (I am much more optimistic than Jack on that score.) But if I am more of a veggie than a real person, I'd rather give up the last 15 or so... My what cheerful thoughts! :tired

P.S. Congratulations on your new band!!! Hope you're doing fine and well on your way to a healthier, slimmer you!

Yay Nana! I don't blame you for hanging onto the best of the group! My father taught me that when you're the new person at your job, beware of the one person that seems like they are the nicest and friendliest and the most concerned about you getting on board. They will turn out to be your worst enemy and the quiet one will turn out to be the most honest and sincere person in the place. I've found that to be true in many group situations. Not 100%, but more often than not. Sounds like it was true at your new church. As for my former boss, she told me once that her remark was one of her dad's favorites. I never really understood it, but I did know that she meant it in a very insulting way. She was one of those people who came on really strong like she had my best interests at heart and like she actually cared, but in a very short time, her true nature came through and I was shocked. All she truly cared about was money. Man, life's too short to live that way, doncha think?

Ha, ha, ha... big as your head burritos... funny! When I went to a spa (read Fat Farm/boot camp) near Rutland, VT, my newly acquired roommate and I used to walk to town to a little burrito stand that had big as your head burritos. In the spa dining room, no one could understand how we could eat such delicate portions :rolleyes It's not surprising I didn't lose more than 9 lbs. in a month! :faint: You heard any word from anyone about TOM? :confused: