BJean

By the way, if you will take the time to go back and read Tommy's original post on this page, you will find that he did not personally insult anyone. He was stating his views and commenting that he had a hard time understanding how people could literally believe the story of Noah's Ark. And if one does believe in it literally, how can one expect a discussion here to come to a "logical" conclusion. I believe that is a point well taken. I'm sorry, I just don't believe that he was being rude or insulting to anyone in a personal way. I believe he was saying what HE believes. Then he was jumped on for his spelling and accused of being all kinds of rude. If you have a problem with his beliefs, why don't you argue those points instead of making it so personal? You don't know Tommy. He could be your very own state legislator. Or your doctor. Or your high school history teacher. Or your college statistics professor. I've known many intellectual and brilliant people who do not type well and who do misspell words. What about our former Vice President? Okay yeah, I know, TommyO couldn't be our former Vice President, that's obvious. Been missing you Tommy!

TommyO: Man how I've missed you! And I am so very glad that you added your posts. It really puts things into a proper perspective. For everyone to have jumped on you in such a rude way - just because you do not share their religious beliefs - is very, very telling about who they are inside, which would seem to reveal a lot about the people behind the anti-choice movement. It also explains clearly why more people from the silent majority just stay silent.

That would definitely be entertaining. Ok, it's resolved, we all seem to agree - out with Kristie Lee. I loved Brooke until the past couple of shows. Now she's beginning to grind on my nerves. She can be spunky and I like that. But if she keeps up with that whiny, furrowed brow thing, she's out. I like the guys but my favorite is the Aussie - Michael Johns. He's gotta get over that unattractive self-conscious sweaty brow thing. I hope he'll continue to get more relaxed, lose himself in the song, and just exude sex. Whoo-hoo!

Yeah, why do the Brits put in the "ces" when they don't prounounce it? My English friend would say Glos-ter. Northern Virgina is an awesome place to live.

Just to set the record straight - although I know people are wanting to retch over the entire matter at this point, gadget I did not call you intolerant. I just didn't. I said that people should be more tolerant. You chose to make it into something that I did not say or intend to say. Now, as far as I'm concerned, it has been put to rest. luluc: Thanks. I'd sure miss you, that's for darned sure!!! I agree Wheet, this is a very complicated issue and I have mixed emotions too. I do think that we all agree that the death of this child was a horrendous, dispicable mistake. I'm not so sure how we make a law that punishes stupidity. But we definitely need to protect our children from stupid people. Oh that's cute Glocester. Do you pronounce it glos-ter? I lived in Virginia for quite a while and their pronunciations often follow the British. In Oklahoma they'd say, glo-ches-ter. Didn't mean to highjack the thread, but I wondered if Glocester is from across the big pond, since that would be an interesting perspective for this thread.

I did not claim to be in the minority. I did not say that you were beaten about the head, neck or shoulders or that you should feel like you were. I really do just speak for myself. I may assume from the content of your posts that you believe something or other, but I can only assume it, not claim it. There have been numerous people supporting your position here lately. There has only been one person who is strongly supporting my position and one other person that I can recall has pro-choice leanings. Again, I am talking about lately. I directed my post to snuffy and you chose to respond to it as if I were speaking directly to and about you. I did not direct my post to you or make any claims about you. I did claim that I was going to sign off and not participate here until and unless things calm down a bit. However I decided that it really was unfair, and yes I feel that word is accurate, for you to challenge me on the content of my post because you decided that it related to you - because it did not. Please, please, please gadget, let's put this silliness behind us and not direct anymore personal animosity toward one another. It is totally unproductive and besides it undermines both of us and our goals on this thread. Right now everyone who's reading knows where you stand, and why you hold those beliefs and everyone knows where I stand, and why. Can't we please just get along?

Oh no, Gloucester, you seem really sharp online! I have really liked your posts in fact. Far from wacko! And your idea of periodic checkups might really establish a workable way to save our children. It sure seems a shame for our country to have to resort to something so intrusive, but something needs to happen, and soon. Are you from Gloucester, Mass or the U.K., or neither?

Thanks so much for the feedback, laurend. I really appreciate your comments. Obviously my posts somewhere along the line riled more than one person. I was working hard to get people to understand that although punishing the parents seems like the best thing to do, it not only won't bring back the little girl, but it may not even keep others with their beliefs from doing the same thing. I'd like for someone to come up with a genius idea of how we can protect our children in America. We're doing a lousy job so far. We have lots of laws and yet still we have children who lose their lives at the hands of their caregivers everyday. I'm sure I didn't do a good job of expressing myself, I was only trying to get someone smarter than I to come up with a better plan than just punishing the parents. Not that they shouldn't be punished, but IMHO there needs to be something more. Thanks again for telling me how it is. I trust you completely with your honest, straight forward style. I've been PM'ed and asked to stay and I'm sure I will. But I'll work harder at not riling feathers. That doesn't appear to have the positive effect I was hoping for.

You guys are hilarious!!! And sure are spot on as far as I'm concerned! Except about Dolly. I thought she not only sounded gastly but she looked gastly to me. It was about her teeth. They looked like slip-ons. You know false teeth instead of caps. Surely not!! She can afford the very best. And she may need to go back to covering up her chest. Those massive lumps so high up looked almost painful. Of course I love her to pieces. I was surprised that she seemed so nervous last night. She's done just about every venue you can imagine, why be so nervous on AI? I think she's one of the brightest performers around though. It really wouldn't hurt her to update her look, do ya think? I mean she doesn't have to look her age (61, I think) but she should bring it out of the 70s. I'm totally in agreement about the boyz! And poor Kristie Lee. It was just sad last night.

So I've been put on report for stating my opinions and questions? Why does that feel discriminatory and unfair? I'm sorry I have offended anyone, including you gadget. That surely has not been my intent. My intent at this thread and others is to give participants my viewpoint and to generate some lively debate about hot topics. Would it be as interesting if everyone agreed on every subject? I realize that few people, if any, share my views, and that's absolutely not a problem. But I believe that it is healthy to look at as many sides to an argument as there are sides. This is what freedom of thought and religion is all about. Believe me, there are people who are far more extreme in their views than little ole' me. Although I do try. If at any time everyone wants me off Lap Band Talk, I will go quietly. I have never meant any harm to anyone. I sincerely care about the people whose posts I read almost every day. I love to read what you are thinking. I feel very warm toward laurend, for instance, even though we disagree on more than one subject. Laurend has a very bright intellect and she seems to be a genuinely good person. That has no bearing on whether I agree with her politics and we can debate a topic without feeling hateful toward one another. Thank you for that, laurend. Please tell me if you believe that I should stop participating at LBT, laurend. Not to put you on the spot, but I'd appreciate your feedback. I trust your input.

snuffy you can't imagine how much I have appreciated your posts and I too thought that you had answered all the questions that had been asked of you, and more. You may think that there is no one who is in agreement with you (except me, of course) and that your postings don't make any difference. But I believe that there is a silent majority reading this that just don't enjoy the awful negative stuff that comes into play. And if anyone is pro-choice and says so, they get walloped severely about the head, neck and shoulders. It seems like lately you and I are the only ones who've been willing and able to trudge on in spite of everything. I do not, however, blame you one bit for opting out. In fact, after yesterday, I believe that the negativity of participating on this thread is getting me down in a way that isn't healthy. Some of our dear readers may find this a delightful turn of events that you and I both are feeling as if we've been beaten to a bluddy pulp (at least I feel that I have - you seem much stronger than I feel). So maybe if we don't continue to post, this thread will die down at least for a while. If not, I reckon the vocal minority can rant and rave on, post their extremist websites, and high five, without our input.

Well, we were talking about inconvenient truth and green stuff.

Robin Bird: I feel just exactly the same way you do about taking care of my children. I would never intentionally endanger their lives. And hopefully, I would never endanger their lives by my stupid behavior or ignorant beliefs.

Elizabethsew: You're so very right. I've been singled out too many times to count. And I'm usually outnumbered in these debates. Something I'm sure that right about now you all can understand. Although I'm having trouble expressing myself obviously, I would like to know exactly why people feel so strongly here that these parents should be punished. I'd like to understand to what extent they feel these parents should be punished. What is fair? What standards do we wish to use to ensure that other children do not die from parents who believe in using prayer and their faith to heal their sick children? Where do we draw the line between religious freedom in this country and discrimination against people who do not share the majority's belief system? If you believe that these parents did not care whether their child lived or died, then the answer is easy. But we must be responsible people when it comes to changing our laws or making new ones. We shouldn't just get upset about a case that has been the latest hot item in the media and declare that these people should be hung in the town square, without knowing all of the possibly very important mitigating circumstances. Fact is, we know what the media has chosen to feed us. If our concern is honestly for the well-being of our children, what can we do to keep this from happening again? As I said earlier, if we punish these parents, do you believe that this will be a deterent for other people who might consider withholding medical care? How do we reconcile allowing people to live their lives freely when it comes to their spiritual practices and telling them that they can't practice their religion in certain instances? Gadget, I fully understand your confusion. I can assure you that I am not a bird. I am a woman who has been very involved in the law over the course of my life and I might be a little intolerant myself when it comes to hot topics and people wanting to change a law or make a new one.

Yes, I understand your position and your desire to change the law. However with change comes responsibility. Too often impassioned people have rushed to make or change a law without fully understanding or considering the repercussions of that change. This could also hold true on another thread where discussion of the death of a child whose parents held religious beliefs that compelled them to not seek medical treatment that could have saved the child's life. People get very angry and militant when it comes to someone killing a child. They don't seem too concerned with mitigating circumstances over where that thread is being discussed. I'm not sure that I understand the difference between the death of that child and the death of a child who is aborted... that is IF you believe that both children should be the afforded all of the same rights under our laws because they are both individual, fully functioning human beings.

Mitigating circumstances and intent? I can't believe that you would ever cut a woman any slack who went off and killed a human being just so that she wouldn't be inconvenienced. How could mitigating circumstances influence your imposition of the death penalty on a woman who obtained an abortion and killed a full blown human being? Her intent is obvious. I know I'm not as much fun as snuffy, but I just felt the need to get this cleared up. Who knows where snuffy is right now.

Thanks for sharing a giggle, georgia! MissyG: you crack me up! And you don't have to worry about me... I'm sure not voting for Ramiele. Yeah georgia, Simon has one big head (at least one). But let's face it, he's gone pretty far wearing a tee-shirt. I hate like heck to admit it, but I actually would like to share a meal with him. I have a sneaking suspicion that all the conversation would revolve around his brilliance though and he'd miss his big chance to get to know me.

I'm sure most readers believe that you're correct in all your posts, gadget. You're definitely more learned in all things metaphysical and religious than a lot of us. And you have quite a loyal following here at LBT. That's certainly something I am sure you are proud of, as well you should be. I do hope that you will continue to entertain ideas and perspectives from others who do not necessarily agree with everything that you say is right and good. We're all God's children, even if our spiritual lives and our beliefs are quite different from each other's. We all have a feeling that we know the differences between good and bad and intelligent and stupid. Very few of us are right 100% of the time and I believe that we should, therefore, embrace tolerance when it comes to our fellow human beings. Everyone will meet her maker in the end. None of us has the knowledge or the infallability to stand in judgement of each other.

kat, your story was priceless. And you are the only gal I know who uses the term "sh**s and giggles. That was one of my sister's faves. That and sh** Marie! Do you think that the mean ole' tech learned anything from having her shoes filled with your upchuck? I sure hope so. I hope they are keeping you as far away from her as possible when you go in. I give Loretta big kudos - too bad there aren't more people like her! Sounds like green has been very fortunate with her medical peeps. Thank goodness. Everything is unpleasant enough without having to deal with arseholes! I was sure glad to see that you had logged on today, green. Love you grrl.

Yeah, I probably shouldn't be taking my huge antidepressant pill. It's huge! But it's the one that they tell me not to crush.

I really like Jason Castro too. But I can't imagine crawling into bed with that hair - or even sharing the same table for a meal. I like it when he ties the top back, but I wouldn't want to touch the stuff. Cooties!! Well if he put a hair net on, I might crawl into bed with him - but still no to sharing breakfast.

P.S.S. What was with Dolly Parton's teeth??? They looked like George Washington's teeth. Simon isn't trying to be America's next Idol. He can wear anything he wants.

P.S. Who's going home tonight?

Ya'll are right on!! I hate the thought of everyone thinking they need to wear Spanx or girddles for gosh sakes!!! I thought that crap went out with the '50s!!! I haven't figured out why some girls today think that tight is right, and extremely tight is better. Very few people can get away with extremely tight clothes. A few super models and that's about it. My DD explained to me the other day what sporting a "muffin top" means. Ya'll know? It's when you wear the low waisted jeans and it's the fluff that bulges up and out over the top of the waistband. Muffin top - a perfect name for it. I know you're wondering... and yes, I have a muffin top and I try not to wear tight or short tops that accentuate it. My gosh, who'd want to see that??? I've found that with the band, having those low waisted jeans are much more comfortable than jeans that put pressure on the band area. Am I the only one who thinks Ramiele's clothes look like she raided her little sister's closet? Her stuff is just as bad as Carly's as far as I'm concerned. What did you think of David Cook's new do? Freakishly normal, I thought. His patent leather Count Dracula comb over with spit curls sure leaves something to be desired though. :wink_smile:

I shouldn't have presumed to speak for them. Of course they are the only ones who can determine if they are tormented. In fact, I was assuming that they really are extremely religious folk, who faithfully believe that their prayers can be healing. Otherwise, the alternative is just too awful to deal with. That would mean that they are neglectful at the very least and possibly even abusive parents. Those things cannot be determined here. We should only be debating or discusing the possibiities. We can't know what really happened, probably even if we read the newspapers and watch TV news broadcasts about it. Everyone seems to put their own slant on seemingly outrageous stories. The more slanted, the better we public seem to like it. Gives us something to rant and rave about. I think debating and ranting and raving is fine. But for any of us to believe that we should be in charge of exacting punishment based on what we know, we're way out of line.