BJean

I can see why the kids like Mylie Cyrus. She has waaaay more confidence than any normal 15 year old. When we were that age, the kids who had the most self-confidence were the ones who always were admired the most by the rest of us self-conscious slobs. I had to get up and leave during the show last night. I especially hated it when Daughtry said "... they need YOUR help" over and over, instead of they need OUR help. I mean, that just seemed like he was doing the show because it was required of him, not because he cared or wanted to. Some of it was gut-wrenching, some of it was gratuitous. I didn't like the Mylie C./Billy Crystal exchange either. I mean everyone knows they are aware of each other and it just seemed stupid and like a big waste of time. Tonight should be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if Brooke is voted off and Kristie Lee stays. I would prefer Syesha leaving to Brooke leaving, but Brooke has been pretty disappointing up until Tuesday night, when I thought she was goodf again. Kristie Lee was given a lot of camera time last night and her voice sounded good. She has been looking so pretty, it makes me think they have decided to invest more in her than Brooke. Btw, on Larry King the other night when the Idol judges were on, they all agreed that Syesha is more like a movie star than a singing star. That's what I've thought all along too! Those genuises!

The way it works is for us to learn from ALL of our mistakes, not just some of them. We have been guilty of going green when it is convenient. When it is inconvenient, or not profitable, we decide that it is not in the best interests of the greater good to make changes.

Amen luluc! Just think, we pay more for meat, poultry, vitamins, milk, and the list goes on, for food that doesn't have harmful additives!!! Isn't that a kick in the pants!

luluc I know TX is a really big state, but we moved to the country a few years ago and after 9/11 we were happy to be in the position of having a water supply from an artesian well and propane that we could control. We also had a septic system that was environmentally friendly. All the rest of the family decided that our place was where we'd stay in the event of an all-out attack. My how fearful we all were back then. I eventually got tired of the drive to town and we moved back. I do still miss that feeling of independence that we had out there. And I envy you your garden. Congratulations on making the effort to have a green life!

No. When the law prohibits women from being able to making decisions affecting their mental and physical health, women will die as a result. Not allowing women to choose is saying that women do not have the right to their own bodies. A fertilized egg is part of a woman's body and you can't have it any other way. Laws should not intervene so that it costs a woman her right to living a healthy life. And the arguments that anti-choice lobbyists make are pretty convincing evidence that they do not care if a woman lives or dies if she is unable to make her own choice. They use terms like "inconvenience" and "abortion as birth control". They either are ignorant of the facts, or they don't care.

Backing up just a bit. Gadget in your response to mine, you said that you do not believe that the baby's value "trumps" the value of the mother and that you believe that they can both live. I know you have posted that on the other thread. My point is that in a perfect world, although both might be able to survive and live healthy lives, ours is not a perfect world and sometimes a choice must be made.

Bitter- as usual I really enjoyed your post. In fact, I've missed you!

Well said, shortgal!

Elenation: Who's left to apologize? I thought most everyone had already done that. I have... over and over and over. I apologized even when I was accused of directing insults to someone specific when I absoutely was not. You want more from me? Just say the word, darlin'. I'm on a peacekeeping mission. :Dancing_wub:

gadget: First off, you live in California. That's quite different from living in Texas, for instance. You got a lot of tree huggers out there. Texans, not so much. We had a little critter in Florida that was keeping a large tract of land from being developed too. It had the owner's hands (and pocketbook) tied, which seemed patently unfair. I agree with you about much of what you've said. I do not believe that the earth is going to be irreparably destroyed within even close to our or our children's children's lifetimes. It's survived a really long time and bearing some meteoric catastrophy, it will keep on keepin' on. We as a species could be endangered by our environmentally unfriendly practices however. I believe that we have a responsibilty that we have heretofore ignored, big time, to preserve our environment as much as we can. We have invented all kinds of hideous products for our convenience and to make corporations wealthy. I lived in Petersburg, Virginia, adjacent to Hopewell, Virginia when Dupont and the tobacco companies were polluting the air and water and earth so badly, you could hardly breathe and you couldn't enjoy the formerly beautiful rivers and bays all the way up the Chesapeake. You couldn't eat the fish and you wouldn't dare go swimming in those areas. Now some of our presidents and Congressmen, who have been on the side of greed and big business, would have us believe that allowing some of the chemical companies, and others, to pollute our environment is just unfortunately the cost of living and that it is those corporations' right to do business that turns them an enormous profit. I disagree. I believe that even our corporations (including car manufacturers) should be compelled to consider our environment when they are designing and manufacturing products for human consumption. I am not a card carrying member of PETA, and in fact, I think THEY are wackos (descriptive term, that). The fact that they seem to prefer plastic shoes, purses and belts is contrary to what I believe we should be wearing. I know what the manufacture of plastics can do to our environment. We should be wearing fur, wool, leather, linen, cotton, etc., because they are natural. For them to believe that animals are superior to human beings is as crazy as saying that a human embryo is superior to a fully grown woman.

LBloomR8: Touche' and that's fair!

Medifast is going well for my DH - who doesn't have the band. I lost 10 lbs. but the soy Protein had such an adverse effect on my system, I wasn't fit for human company. Well, not sure my dogs wanted to be near me either. They had about 2 or 3 items that were whey protein that didn't bother me, but I found that I couldn't survive on chicken Soup and a mango tea. At least I found that I didn't want to survive if I only had that to dine on. I'm back at trying to do it just me and my band. Oddly enough, I had a small amount of restriction - could eat but not overeat - and I decided to get a fill. After that, I have less restriction than before! So, I'm going for another fill tomorrow. I don't know if doc made a mistake or if my exercise program is causing me to lose fat in the band area. I wouldn't complain about that! Good luck with getting your bod where you want it. You'll do it. I just worry that you're going to cause yourself some harm and if that happens, you definitely won't be able to exercise like you were pre-surgery. I know how it feels to panic, thinking you're going to gain weight! But your body may be trying to repair itself and it is making you crave more calories. You can eat a whole lot of veggies and some fruit without gaining weight. You know you just have to keep those things handy. Healthy Choice makes a mean fudgecicle that is very satisfying. And I"m learning that if I make sure that everything I eat is 100 calories or less, it is easier to keep track of how much I'm taking in. My biggest problem is doing what I'm recommending to you: veggies and fruit. Hang in there girl. It seems like it takes forever to get slim and trim again, but a few months is a small investment for the rest of your life!!

I had some burning, but nothing like you're describing. Mine was more localized. It went away pretty quickly also. Like in a day or so. I know you really want to get yourself in shape and to have lots of stamina, karey, but please take it easy. Starting out with a mile is a lot! If I can play the mother hen for a minute, I would suggest that you not go so far right at first. I think you would be better off if you would only do a fairly slow-paced, relatively short walk for a while. Your body will allow you to gradually increase your time and mileage. You should listen to the signals that your body is giving you. This isn't like when you hadn't had recent surgery and you were trying to get in shape. You can cause internal scarring, adhesions, etc. Of course if your doc has told you to do more, he's the boss! (I'm only your muther.)

Hope you're having a great weekend too, luluc!

I mostlly grew up in Oklahoma and there are many names and words that are derived from Indian cultures that are very hard to pronounce using phonics. Chouteau is one of them. Chickasha, Wekiwa (also used a lot in Fla.) and many more that I can't pull up at this moment. It is interesting too that these words are prounounced and used differently just across the borders of nearby states. I'm sure that Kat has to deal with much of it in N.M. as well.

I can't for the life of me understand why people who say they love people and the earth (like G.W. Bush) on the one hand, are against environmentally friendly concepts and practices on the other. For me it is as confounding as saying that you want to force women to carry their unplanned, unwanted fertilized eggs to full term because you want to save lives, yet being 100% for the death penalty. No rationalization that they use in either case, makes any sense to me. :confused2::confused2:

Lord, I hope so. :thumbup: Sorry, just couldn't resist after having read your sarcastic remark to TommyO. But seriously, I for one gratefully accept your very thoughtful apology and attempt to do better in the future. Not only that, but I pledge to do better too. :regular_smile: Maybe our Virgo was in our Aquarius rising or our gemini Pluto'ed something or other. :tongue:

And by the way, I prefer to keep names and personalties out of my posts if at all possible. That's why I don't use quoted material all the time above my responses. I try very hard to keep the topic in mind and my own beliefs at the forefront of my posts. luluc's point about the written word is so true. But what we're talking about here is the differences in style that you and I and others have, gadget. And that's okay, isn't it? I also don't like to provide links to stuff. I have no problem with someone who does, it just isn't my style. It isn't what I find to be important and beneficial to me. If I mention someone by name, I mean my post to be directed specifically to them and I hope for a response from them. If I do not mention someone by name, I am trying to keep it as impersonal as possible and make my point based on what I am feeling and what I believe and what I have read. At that point, I'm not interested in whether a certain one person may choose to respond to me in a direct, personal way and lodge an opposing viewpoint. I read everyone's posts and if they disagree with me, I try to focus on the debate, not the person. We really don't know each other personally here at LBT. Now I know that everyone must be sick to death of this little friction that has gone on here and who can blame them? I would like to put all of this behind us and frankly, if it is someone's style to get personal, get accusatory and/or become defensive, I will go back to using my own style, doing my best to not take it personally and I will do my best to stay on topic. :cursing: As Sammy Davis sang, "I gotta be me..."

Oh but gadget, you were not the only person who was participating on the thread who was anti-choice. There had been several others at the time. However he may well have been directing his comments to you specifically. I'm not ignorant of that fact. However I do think that for any of us, getting all defensive and accusatory in response to a post is counter-productive and only serves to incite friction and bad feelings. But thanks a lot for working so hard to always keep me straightened out. Sometimes it actually works.

poor luluc. sorry you're having allergies. At least it isn't that awful flu that's been going around!!

P.S. I think it was very big of gadget to reflect on TommyO's post and admitting that her reaction may have had something to do with posts that he has made elsewhere or some time ago. Very cool.

luluc, I"m afraid you have one more example why people don't share their own stories here. I understood your analogy. Onof my pet peeves is that sometimes people with differing views jump on a post and take it off in a different direction and run with it, just to make their own point. It may not accurately reflect the original poster's intent. Someone pointed that particular point out above when they referenced my argument that TommyO wasn't being personally insulting. (I didn't deny that his post was hard-edged.) I think that people felt so disgusted and insulted by TommyO's first post because they identify with the kind of person that TommyO used to make his point. He wasn't naming names, or pointing fingers at any one person in particular. He was making a generalized statement that you can choose to understand as his way of making a point, or you can choose to take it as a finger poked in your own eye. We all have those choices when we read the posts here. Nor is it productive to choose to argue about personalities or to point out grammatical or spelling errors. That only comes across as trying to discredit someone because you don't agree with their post. But ces't la vie. Differences are what make the world go 'round. And they also makes for pretty firey debates here! Whoo-hoo!! :cursing:

All this impassioned argument here points out one thing quite clearly: There should be no ban against a woman's right to make her own choices when it comes to her body and that of her own eggs, fertilized or not. These eggs are not the property of the state. The people have no right to seize a woman's eggs and force their idea of morality on the mother. In fact, you can't force people to accept your idea that a fertilized egg is and of itself, a baby. An embryo has no voice because its' voice is that of the mother - not the voice of outsiders who wish to impose their will on not just the baby but also the mother. You cannot separate the two.

I see that Pix has said it much better than I ever could have.

Yes. Your're right, that sounds harsh. You want to project your feelings into her story. You don't know what would have happened to this woman if she had not had an abortion. She could have died. Then there would be no life and no 4 children, and no great guy, and no way for her to have any feelings of remose or for her to regret her life of drugs and alcohol. There would be no way for her to have seen the "light" and live a better life. No chance for God's guidance or his forgivness.