BJean

Yeah! Right on!! Oh it's so irritating when Meredith is such a wimp and stupid with McDreamy. She is supposed to be a brilliant doctor. She loves to drink and have raucous sexual encounters. She is keenly attracted to him. He's good to her and yet, she's a weak-kneed lily lovin' pansey a$$ with him. yeah right. And as for Christina who seems to have the total killer instinct, completely self-serving and self-centered and competitive, talented in the O.R. and yet she gets no respect. yeah, right. I think we should mount a write in campaign and insist the writers get Christina to bat her eyelashes at Hahn just to get her to allow her in on all Hahn's surgeries. It could be lots 'o fun watching Christina squirm when Hahn makes sexual advances. am I sick, or what? Ok I'm setting up Mad Men to tivo. I'll let you know what I think. Thanks for the tip!

Elenation I see your point. Consequences are always a factor. But we are built with a conscience. Although some of us need more guidance and discipline than others. Tommy for instance can distinguish right from wrong quite well all on his own.

Cher: I think I'm interested. I'm pretty much in the closet so I'm a little nervous about coming out at a convention. But I think that it could be very good to meet other bandsters and meet people in the business of helping obese folks. I've experienced a nagging plateau and I have read about so many others who have gone through the same thing. I think it is very common with lap banders to lose an intitial 40 - 50 lbs and then to have a really hard time getting anymore weight off. I am sure the reasons can be complicated, but it just seems like such a universal problem I'm thinking there might be some things that can help those of us who have experienced it. Btw, I have caught "The New You" show several times and it's fun and informative.

I tried to ask my doctor about this very thing. He laughed and looked at me like I had lost my mind. However there was another patient in the office that swore that when he flew to Vegas, his restriction was twice as tight afterwards. When I went to Scottsdale from Texas last summer, I found that upon arrival, I could hardly eat anything. It was that way the entire trip and when I returned I had to have some restriction removed. I didn't have any idea that flying could be a factor. It was only after I read a thread here that I considered flying as a contributing factor. I still don't know if it was coincidental or if the flight actually played a role. But if anyone does know for sure, I would appreciate hearing about it. I have a 12 hour flight coming up and I want to get all of my restriction removed if it is true.

Abuse in any form is bad. I think this has been a great forum. I have read lots of very interesting stories and different perspectives. I have always thought that parents should have the right to educate and discipline their children by their own set of rules. I've also observed so much abuse, both physical and emotional, that I wonder what we as a society are going to do to help the children and stop the horrendous cycle of abuse. You all are giving me some hope that it can be done without laws that interfere with parental rights. It has many of the same pros and cons as the question of gun control, doesn't it?

Tommy, that's an interesting question. I think that by definition if you do not believe in God, that you're an atheist. However I don't believe that it makes you a card carrying atheist. I think you can quietly practice your own belief system without being a part of some larger sect. In fact, I don't know of an organized group of people who practice atheistism. Do you? Same with agnostics. I think. I know more about organized religions than I do about random believers (or non-believers) but maybe some expert will add to the commentary here.

That's something that I'm always stunned by - the idea that atheists have no morals. Christians do not have the exclusive rights to morality. In fact the very idea that people need the reminder of hell to scare them into being better people or better Christians is odd to me. I've even read posts that said in effect, I'm a Christian and if I'm wrong, what's the harm. If you're wrong for not being a Christian, you're going to hell! So the inference is, that we all should join a church, become Christian and protect ourselves from an eternity of burning in hell. Frankly I would hope that people want to be better people and treat each other well because it is the right thing to do. To me, worrying about hell is such a selfish motivation for being good. Many people are good, for goodness sake.

To support your point about it being confusing when you mix love and physical pain Brandy, I'll tell you a little about my sister's daugher. My sister used to hit my niece - a lot. They were so much alike they constantly crossed swords. Of course my sister was bigger and in charge so guess who always won... anyway, my my niece is grown now and she and my sister have never been able to honestly talk about how much my sister used to hit my niece The times that my niece has tried to discuss it with her, my sister always says, "Oh you know that I never hit you. If there was a case where I did hit you, it was because you asked for it." And then she giggles nervously and leaves the room. Over time, my niece learned that love and hitting went hand in hand. She needed to believe that her mother loved her. To think anything else was too painful. Now as an adult, she can't feel loved by her spouse unless and until he hits her. Even sexually, he has to hit her or she just can't feel anything. My niece has never confided in her mother about it, but she's confided in me and my heart goes out to her. She gets counseling, but she hasn't been able to get over it yet. Btw, she NEVER hits her son and I am so proud of her for that.

BrandyII: Sometimes it isn't very popular to state your beliefs here. Especially when you state an opposing viewpoint to the majority of posters at a particular point in time. But if you feel strongly about an issue, you should just state your case. Hopefully everyone will have an open mind and heart and not "shoot the messenger." Because having a certain viewpoint is not something that can accurately define you as a certain kind of person. I have found that most of us here have more in common than we think. I hope that we can all separate our posts from who we are as human beings. There's no way that we can actually know each other personally just by reading what we post. Anybody can say anything here. Sometimes I think that some people post things just for a reaction, not because they care one way or another. Sometimes that generates lively and enlightening discussions. I believe what you've said on this thread is right on!

luluc: That was one of the most heart warming stories I've ever heard! You're married to a prince. My guess is he isn't perfect, but the man has a heart as big as outdoors! He's a keeper! I hear about cats sleeping with you and having several in the house and I sneeze just thinking about it. We had 2 cats, Mamie and Cecil, and I loved them, but I just couldn't have them on me for very long because I'd start sneezing and tearing up and rubbing my eyes and nose. Our DD took them when she went to college. We now have 2 miniature schnauzers. Maggie and Sophie. Yep, they're yappy. But they're fantastic pets. Brilliant and non-allergenic and affectionate and did I mention brilliant? I get tired of them freaking out every time someone walks by or comes to the door but I'm thankful that people know there are dogs inside my house that will protect me. We have a very safe neighborhood, but you never know..... right?

Good one, Jack. Reminds me of an old Chinese proverb: He who knows, listen to him. He who knows not, shun him. He wo knows he knows not, befriend him. He who knows not he knows... or, er, uh, well, gulp. He hoo, he hoo...

I'm with you... I thought Callie had gained weight too. I love the story line with Callie and Hahn. Think Hahn is going to wind up coming out? Last week Hahn told Christina that she didn't talk to her because she reminded her so much of herself. Maybe they'll wind up having an affair. I really miss McDreamy's ex on Grey's. I've caught her new show which is all right but certainly not great. She really can't carry her own show. I found myself getting really tired of her. OR maybe it was just the way the writers portrayed her. I like her on Grey's. Poor McSteamy! Can't get laid - except now it looks like Callie and he are going to get back together. I'm glad that they actually put a little more medical stuff in with the story. It was getting kind of too soap opera with no substance for me. I always watch Desperate. Now you make me want to watch Mad Men.

FF: I forgot about Sunta. I always liked what she had to say. Very interesting person. Wonder what happened to her. Wasn't she a moderator at one time?

Yup. He was also concerned about a test he had just had and was waiting for the results. It's hard not to think the worst, dang it. How exciting - you're getting a TT!!! Wow. You're going to hate the recovery period but you'll love the results! I'm happy for you!

Yeah I guess I go back really far because I haven't read anything from Carlene or TOM for an extremely long time. MiniMe and others were all so much fun to read. I didn't politically agree with Leatha, but she was interesting and fun to read. I'm thankful that you're still here Wheetsin and I am glad that Green feels like popping in from time to time. I'm glad that we still hear from Jack too. And Kat is great. And the others who've posted on this thread. You're all why I keep coming back almost every day. I hope we will all learn the lesson that if we find it necessary to go away for any length of time for any reason, it would be very nice if we would say when and why we'll be gone. I don't know if I will ever stop wishing I could read one of TOM's really far out but interesting posts.

Sarcasm can be easily misunderstood when we are not having a face to face. In fact, I seen sarcasm interrupt honest dialogue at LBT. People can react to a piece of sarcasm they don't interpret as sarcasm and then they're off on some misguided tangent filled with hatefulness. As long as you realize that you can be misunderstood, go for it, but I've seen too many people actually hurt by scarastic remarks at LBT.

Spanking actually benefits the parent because spanking is used as a means of control. It is a way for a parent to quickly and literally get the upper hand when the child has done something that the parent finds unacceptible. It brings to mind the way that some pet owners discipline their dogs; believing that the best way to control and teach a dog sometimes is to hit it. Everyone by now should know that dogs do not understand what you want (nor do small children) when you hit them. Yes it does make them fear you, they usually cower and submit to you and stop the offending behavior. But it often does not teach them the lesson that you are wanting them to learn. Let's face it, pets and children get conflicting messages when they feel pain from the person they put their love and full trust in. And after a spanking, children are often not really listening when we're preaching because they're preoccupied with the pain and fear and conflicted emotions that they're still reeling from. The question of learning is what we should deem the most relevant factor of this issue: is hitting a dog or a child the most effective way to teach them the lesson that you are wanting them to learn? If the lesson is: "fear me and always obey", then yes it probably is the most effective way to teach them. If the lesson is: "that is unacceptible behavior because that behavior is dangerous or offensive", then no, it is not the most effective means of teaching them what they need to learn. Many people say that they were spanked and they've turned out well and so that is indicative of the fact that spanking worked in their case. I believe that some people learn in spite of being spanked, not because they were spanked. Just as in the case of dogs who wind up doing the right thing. What many children learn from being hit is that their parents cannot be trusted and that their parents don't have as much control of their temper as they should. They often wind up having little respect for their parents and sometimes they even dislike them so much they want to have nothing to do with them as adults. Those are the ones who grew up to think that although spanking was bad, it was done to them and so by golly it's what you have to do to get control of their dog or child. Thus the cycle continues. All of this is IMHO, of couse! It's definitely a hot issue and one that is very personal. Of course when a country or state outlaws it, it ain't so personal anymore.

Boy Elenation we must be on the same wave length right now. I added "May he rest in Peace" after my post but then deleted it because I thought it might sound gratuitous. You added it for me. And you're right - it's good to know that he's no longer in pain. Thanks for sharing my story with me.

I know. It made me really sad to recall it and I hadn't thought about it in years. He wasn't injured in the accident. But all of the emotional stuff surrounding the incident hit him so hard that I believe that he gave up his will to live. It is really hard work sometimes to keep someone healthy when they are a parapalegic. Of course that depends on the extent of their disabilities, but it is easy for complications to happen. No one ever spoke up about whether he was drinking that day. My dad certainly didn't. However because they were so tight lipped and because they were all so depressed (everyone in the car), I have a feeling that he had been drinking. My dad never drank and he probably insisted that he be the one to drive (which often happened on those campaign trips) but since he wasn't driving, I always figured that the boss insisted on taking the wheel. There was just something in my dad's eyes and voice that made me think that and it was the first time I had ever seen my dad cry. I never heard another word about the little girl's family. I'm sure they were very bitter, whether there was drinking involved or not. It has to be horrible to lose a beautiful little child whatever the circumstances.

gadget that was humorous! I mean it. I'm glad to see you have a lighter side since we usually only link up in more serious areas. :biggrin2:

He was a parapalegic due to injuries he sustained while admirably serving our country in war. For a few years, he did a very good job. And the system he set up is still in use today - quite a number of years later. But his disabilities and the social situation that he and his wife were thrown into due to his disabilities, were very painful for him. He took medications that were prescribed for him and he drank to medicate himself even more. His secretary and staff ran interference for him at the office when by 3 in the afternoon, he was pretty much in his cups. To his credit, he never allowed himself to be photographed for political ads in his wheelchair. The poor guy (actually from a wealthy family) had a fabulous very powerful and plush Lincoln that was built just for him that had hand controls, lifts, etc., and one day while he was out on the campaign trail with a couple of his employees, he came to the top of a hill and a little girl ran out in front of his car and he hit and killed her. It was one of the saddest things you can imagine. Everyone who knew him and that he drank wondered if he had been drinking and driving that day. Only the guys in the car with him knew for sure and they weren't talking. The little girl's family was aware of his financial status and his job, so they sued of course. It became quite the media event. But the speed limit was 45 MPH on a well-traveled road, and the girl ran out in front of him. I don't know if anyone would have been able to avoid hitting her. My father was one of the men in the car and had to testify at the trial. My boss died about a year later and we knew that not only did he have a broken body, he had a broken heart. A bit off course here but thinking about politics on the local level made me think of all this today.

I agree that an anti-smacking law may not stop the abusers (the ones who the law deems are abusers) but it might slow them down a little. At least they may not do it in public. And they may not leave bruises or break bones. We need to give kids relief from people whose lives are so stressed that they take it out on their children. If it takes a law that is so extreme that it is causing an entire country to be divided, you can bet that more parents will think twice before smacking or abusing their children. I've often wondered what parents who believe in smacking their children would do if the ability to hit their kids was taken away from them? What kind of discipline would they use?

I was lucky to absolutely love the representative I worked for. I agreed with his politics 100% and it was an exciting office to work in. However at the Court Clerk level, I knew that my boss was an alcoholic and that the office was actually run by a couple of his key employees, who were not the most ethical people I'd ever met. I've heard people say that it doesn't matter that much who is president. But I couldn't disagree more. You can track our economy and the country's progress as it relates to education, environment, banking and other very specific things like international affairs by just looking at who was president and which party dominated Congress. I know you may be a Republican and this may sound offensive to you, but one of the reasons that I believe that more people than usual seem to be interested in the elections this time is because for at least 4 years we had a very conservative Republican President and a Republican dominated Congress and the decisions that they made have sent our country in a direction that has been very good for the wealthy folks and large corporations, while the problems for many Americans have become much worse. We need checks and balances and that makes it vitally important for us at the state level to know exactly who our representatives in Congress are. The president can't do much without congressional support, but if he has the majority support, we can be steered in a direction that is not in the best interests of the country as a whole. So the bottom line is that not only do we need to get out and vote, but we need to make darned sure we know who the candidates are. A few sound bytes heard on the evening news or in biased political ads just don't tell the full story. I am sure you find it conflicting to work for someone who you have overheard playing politics in a less than honest way. It may be disgusting but I do think that it is pretty common for our elected officials to talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Oh my! You make fun of Carrie Underpants big hair and your fav is Jason Castro???!!! Seriously? (Btw I'm a fan too :-) but I'm from Oklahoma and big hair is not only acceptible in some circles there, but required! Bless her sweet little heart! :thumbup:

Elenation - You must have an interesting job! The office of Mayor is really, really political in most towns. I was a Deputy Court Clerk once and my boss was elected. Every four years we were expected to campaign and canvass and put up signs. You really needed to believe in your boss in order to be loyal and give him your full support. There are always skeleton's in people's closets. It's lots easier if you stay a little in the dark about any character issues your boss may have. When I worked as a legislative aide, I learned what politics was really about. The stakes were much higher and my boss's influence and power was enormous. He had been in his seat for 20 years. Most of the important stuff (not relating to election time) was done behind the scenes. Some of the conversations were shocking and it was when I really learned how the system works. I was very disillusioned for a while and after I moved onto another job, it took me a while to get over it and even want to vote again. What I finally realized is that if we don't vote and if we don't use the power that we have as voters, the system will REALLY be corrupt. We actually have more power than most of us realize. If only we would use it and use it wisely, things would be much more fair in this country and the democracy that we all aspire to for this country would have a greater possibility of working. The only time my bosses ever jumped was when their constituents made noise.