BJean

Band to sleeve revision done when I was 64 - and I wish I could have done it years ago!

This is so stupid I can't even wade through it all. It goes from wrong to so freaking wrong it is unbelievable. God didn't write anything - down or up. The Bible wasn't written when mankind developed into an upright creature. So there were no rules from the outset, nothing written, nothing spoken. We are intelligent life. We make our own rules. We develop our own spirituality. We made the Bible. We may have had divine inspiration or it may have simply been people with enough intelligence that they were attempting to make sense of life and trying to ensure that people could learn to coexist in peace. I'm not unfaithful. I am very faithful. But I'm not stupid and I'm not ignorant and I am not, unlike yourself, blinded by religious endoctrination and unable to think for myself. Like this kind of discussion between us always winds up, I'm suggesting once again that you stop thinking in absolutes. Stop buying into rigid thinking and judgement of others. You are always going to be a basically unhappy person until you allow yourself to question and question some more. And actually be open to other possibilities. It will enhance your spirituality - not crush it. I do understand your fear. And that fear runs very deep. It will take some work but you can do it, I think. Although I am not positive that you can actually get past that deep-seated fear that you cling to. You're so wrapped up in fundamentalist, extremist blind worship, you are missing one of the most important things that life has to offer. And you'll never know exactly what that is until you stop that chatter in your head and let the life blood flow freely without such stricture and negativity.

You do not have the right to protect human embroys from anything. So there is no infringement involved.

First, it isn't murder. Second, you do not have the right to try to make people do your bidding - i.e., carry a baby when they are unable to to it or do not want to do it. You cannot interject your wishes into a woman's womb. You have no right to do that and it is physically impossible for you to do it.

It is very hard to do but PUT AWAY THE SCALES! At least for a few days. Then, what I've learned is that (if you're really sticking to the low-cal program) your body has begun to hang on to every calorie because it thinks it's starving. That is quite common. Honestly this sounds counterintuitive but eat more calories for a couple of days. I promise you it will tell your body that you aren't starving it and your body will then allow you to realize a weight loss again. It is really how it works. The other way to do it, if you don't trust what I'm telling you, is to increase your exercise by a lot. But when you're eating very little and your body is hanging onto everything you eat, it's in starvation mode. If you increase your exercise (which will work for seeing a loss) but you aren't taking in enough Protein, it can be very hard on your muscles, including your heart. I'm no medical professional so go ask the medical pros in your life. If they say I'm wrong, then it's because they haven't had enough experience to understand the phenomenon.

As Rodriquez said, we don't put laws into effect because they are reflecting what God "said" in the Bible. Sorry to burst your bubble. But you definitely seem to live in one. A small, contained bubble of thought and beliefs. We pass laws because they keep us all from running over each other on the streets; to keep us from thinking it's all right to take other people's belongings; to keep us from killing our enemies; to have a structure for us so that we can hopefully live in peace in this very populated world. My beliefs on a woman's right to choose whether or not to procreate will absolutely in no way infringe upon your beliefs. Your desire to make abortion illegal definitely infringes upon my beliefs. We're not only talking about keeping religion out of our government, we're also talking about keeping our Constitution REAL. Making laws that do not take away the constitutional rights of others to live their lives. We don't have laws because of God. We just do not. We have them because we are a civilized society. And we try to make our laws that are fair to everyone as much as possible because that's what our Constitution and Bill of Rights promise. That's why our forefathers came here and why they wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights the way they did. Not to please God. They did it to make this a free country, where people do not have to live by any rules set up by one particular religious doctrine. They were intentinoally very open and explicit about separation of church and state. Why can't you understand that? Why do you continue to argue they wanted a nativity on the courthouse lawn?

Me: "... as it relates to every other woman and what they believe, it's fine for you to make your beliefs known to them but you are not our creator and you have absolutely no business telling them whether they are doing the right thing if they choose to have an abortion, no matter what their personal circumstances are." You: "I never claimed to be your creator. God gives me the right to tell others about what he has to say on issues. To say that I have "no business" to do so on a thread entitled "who supports the right to choose" is ridiculous. If we saw each other on the street or something and I overheard your conversation about having an abortion, then it would not be my business to tell you anything. But here, this is what we are discussing, so it is my business. If someone were to ask me what I felt about abortions and why, I would tell them." No, that's not what you want to do. You want to make laws that reflect your personal beliefs on this issue. It isn't that you just want to tell people what you believe and what you've decided that God has said on the subject, you want to legislate what you believe to the point that it is as if you think you're God Himself. You use His name and you say you're using His words but it's you who wants to rule us and they are YOUR words you're using. If God wanted to rule us in that way, then He would. He didn't choose you to rein us all in and have us follow you and your teachings. Everyone does not believe that God spoke to us through the Bible. And He, no matter how convinced you are of it, DID NOT write, nor did he actually speak to be quoted, in the Bible. Talking about an issue is one thing - labout this or any other topic like gun control or capital punishment or legalizing drugs - everyone is free to give an opinion and reveal their beliefs. But when you decide that your beliefs should be the law of the land and they are simply your beliefs with no basis in science or even good sense, then we have to draw the line.

If you believe that it is God's will that a woman or girl becomes pregnant and you also believe that a person should not interfere with God's will and you also believe that abortion is murder, then it makes no sense that you would believe that it's all right for anyone to get an abortion for any reason. And I hope you never have to face a personal situation where you are conflicted between your own body and your beliefs. As for what you believe as it relates to every other woman and what they believe, it's fine for you to make your beliefs known to them but you are not our creator and you have absolutely no business telling them whether they are doing the right thing if they choose to have an abortion, no matter what their personal circumstances are. Hence the absolute necessity for this to not be a governmentally controlled issue.

Cleo's it's interesting to look at a chart where you can see, in black and white, what trickle down economics means to Americans. But we've lived it and it is a middle class and lower wage earners reality. And even though some middle and lower income people fancy themselves "conservative" and hate the ideology of the progressive party, they have had to live with the results of Republican economic policies. They won't admit it, but they were surely better off during the Democratic administrations than the Republican ones. So it just proves that the Republicans are quite adept at selling what they want Americans to believe. And we're not that good at putting 2 and 2 together to figure out what they've done to us until it's too late. Eight years gave us enough time to figure it out and that's why President Obama was elected with a strong majority. People got it and they were hurting and fed up.

When Fox was trying to soft peddle it, it sounded like real news. They have become so extreme that there's no mistaking what they're up to. And it is very grating on your nerves because you don't have the opportunity to call them on the glaring lies and exaggerations. It would be great if when they took a breath we could ask questions or make comments. Unfortunately only we can hear it when we question them and there's no opportunity for them to have to qualify their outrageousness. Rupert Murdoch makes absolutely sure of that. Heck yeah it's frustrating. Sometimes I watch just to see if they've been able to come up with anything more outrageous than the last time. They never let me down.

I've decided to stop weighing every day. It's been several days now and I miss jumping on and seeing a little loss every day. But I think my weight loss has slowed because I am eating a little more than I was. I hope I'm not stretching my stomach! That would be revolting! But I definitely can consume more than I was. Perhaps it's just that the swelling from the surgery is gone?

Speaking of stale popcorn, there's one theater nearby that if you go to one of the first movies of the day, their popcorn tastes absolutely GREEN! Moldy, nasty, yuk! I'd love some popcorn but right now I don't trust myself. So all I have to do is think of that terrible green popcorn and I'm okay without it. I do eat nuts though and have for probably 3 weeks. They don't seem to cause any problems and I too needed the ruffage. :-)

Yeah, I re-read my post and it sounded like gobbldegook. What I was trying to say is that the way the laws are right now, the government cannot to force a woman to have a baby or to abort a baby. The government just doesn't have that power over women. And it never should.

Uncovering things like the RNC's plans for dirty campaigning reminds me of the Nixon era. And the Republicans only cooled it for a while after that. But they have known how to use "dirty tricks" (a very nice thing to call what they do) for ages and it seems to work best when the lies are the most exaggerated. Americans seem to have knee jerk reactions to anything shocking. We tend to just get angry and not think things through. We don't seriously wait to find out if what we've heard is true. We just assume the worst. But we've been burned and we've been burned really bad from time to time. And that makes me hope that the majority of voters will not be so quick to think the worst of candidates, until the proof is evident and obvious. And leroy until we revamp the political system we're going to have a political system that isn't perfect. But I don't think that it has necessarily let us down at this point in time. I think that it seriously let us down when everyone reacted to 9/11 and allowed our president to take us into a senseless war. So far with this administration, there are people who are seriously working hard to make improvements for most Americans. No one single issue should make us judge this administration or congress as having failed us or as having fixed everything we want and need fixed. But I think they are trying, against all odds, to improve things for all Americans. That's all we can reasonably expect from a system like ours.

This issue is a personally religious one for some people, which is of course, perfectly fine and expected. For those who believe that abortion is wrong in the U.S., their constitutional rights are protected legally so that they can live by those beliefs. Because for every woman in America, religion aside, the law provides a constitutional right for them to be able to choose. Abortion is legal and should be legal under the laws of our land. Beyond that, one needs to follow ones own conscience and beliefs and refrain from trying to impose those very personal beliefs on those who do not share them by taking away every woman's constitutional right to choose, by the law.

It's downright hilarious to watch patty complain about "Bush bashing" when all she does is Obama bash. And before that, she was busy bashing Clinton. Remember??? She swore that Clinton's failed policies are why 9/11 happened. Which was patently false. The Republican dominated congress stopped Clinton from being as aggressive as he wanted to be with terrorists in certain middle eastern countries. So whether the bashing is deserved or not, it's going to happen from the opposition camp. That's the way it is in American politics. In fact, that's the way it is in politics everywhere. We're just dirtier about it than in some countries. I'd like to see patty's list of Bush accomplishments too - particularly when it comes his economic accomplishments - which is what she constantly wrings her hands and whines about regarding this administration.

Well I think that "ignorant" is probably more accurate than "stupid" for those who buy into the lies and misrepresentations that the Republicans put out to win elections. And in the past, there have been a large number of Americans who are seriously ignorant of the truth. There are still people who believe that John Kerry somehow lied to get his war medal and that he didn't in fact help save some of his fellow military comrades. And the fact is that T. Boone Pickins, an extremely wealthy oilman, and his ilk were behind the lies and misrepresentations that were published and repeated in the mass media that brought John Kerry's campaign for the presidency to a halt. And these terrible, terrible self-serving wealthy men claim to be patriotic. What a joke. No seroius patriot would besmirch the name of a man who risked his life for this country by serving in the military. In fact, no decent human being would do that. This is simply one of the lies that ignorant Americans bought during a campaign. There are many, many others we could enumerate. And the biggest lies - the most damaging and onerous lies are concocted by some of the most wealthy and powerful Republican businessmen. They are carried out by the "tools" that they employ who are as greedy as the rich men they work for. And if you disagree with the Democrats and you consider yourself a conservative, it doesn't mean you are de facto ignorant or stupid. You are though if you believe the lies and jump on the perpetrators bandwagon and argue that the lies are the truth. And I certainly do not say any of this because I feel in any way superior to those ignorant folks. It say it because it is what has happened and continues to happen within the Republican political machinery. You sure don't have to be a genius to figure it out. You are committed to ignorance if you believe and repeat the lies just because you don't agree with the Democrats' politics.

I know, I know. Sometimes I give people more credit than they deserve. I just hate thinking that people are so gullible and easily influenced by the some of the bad guys. But we have to realize that there is huge, HUGE money behind the Republican lies. Historically we've thought that if it is reported as news and if it is in print in an important newspaper, then it is probably true. It's amazing how much power the wealthiest have over the working class.

Well let's just hope that Americans don't have a short memory at election time. I trust that the Democrats are going to do a better job of campaigning than they have in the past. It's always a crap shoot though since Americans historically have listened to the lies and bought into them in the past. And when they did, they forgot that they wound up hating themselves for it later.

I think the problem is that after the first week, we begin to feel so good we think we are able to do most of the things we are used to doing. I really pushed the envelope getting in the pool. My steri-strips weren't completely off when I decided to go ahead and swim a little. I usually am very religious about sticking to whatever my doc tells me to do. Could be why it took longer to heal that one spot than it should have. Some of the things you probably shouldn't do for a while are sweeping and vacuuming. It is very easy to overdo it when you begin to feel good. After the first week, I felt really great, except for the tenderness and pain right around the biggest wound. Pampering yourself more than usual is smart because you don't want to pull anything or cause adhesions or scarring that might give you problems later. It's only for a few weeks and then you'll be good to go!

When I went in for my second post-operative appointment, I told the doc that everything was great except for the one incision on the left - the largest one. And that it was still tender and hurts sometimes. He said, "well it should be tender, you had a hole there the size of a quarter and that's where I took your stomach out. It's just going to take longer for that spot to mend." I don't know if that's the answer for you, but yours sounds much more painful than mine. I agree with the others that you should call your doctor just to be sure.

P.S. We have a movie theatre that serves real food and we have gone there a couple of times since my surgery. I've chosen a high protein food when it was mealtime. I couldn't eat much, but it kept me from trying popcorn. When you go into a theater and take in that freshly popped popcorn aroma, it's not easy walking past the snack counter!

I used to love to go to the movies and enjoyed a huge bag of popcorn every time. But I am scared to try it with the sleeve. I don't know if I will try it once I'm several months out from surgery but I have heard stories about people eating too much popcorn and having big problems -- and they didn't have their stomach stapled. So I just decided that as much as I used to love popcorn, why risk it? Maybe I will thinnk differently later on. I'll bet there's someone else on here who can give you more input on eating popcorn with the sleeve.

I haven't actually hit a stall yet but the weight loss is very slow and steady. I tend to weigh every day and measure my losses in ounces. I know that seems silly, but it keeps me happy knowing that with a few exceptions, I have lost a number of ounces everyday. When you've been fat and fought it as long as I have, just seeing the scale go down steadily, instead of up, is pure satisfaction.

You know if this fiasco in Arizona causes a more serious look at the immigration problems between Mexico and the U.S., I welcome it. Republicans stirred this up and Republicans are the ones who have historically looked the other way when it was in their interest to allow people to come here illegally from Mexcio. Our laws haven't been seriously enforced and in fact, we have encouraged illegal immigration of Mexicans by structuring our laws to favor them - like allowing the children of illegal immigrants to be natural born citizens if they are delivered here, allowing them to have medical care and other benefits whether they have medical insurance or not, employers looking the other way when it comes to the lack of green cards and other things that make it attractive for them to come here illegally. What we need to to is figure out how to handle the whole thing legally and how to structure our laws so that we can live with them and also so that we can enforce them. I think any sane person knows that having a gestapo like climate on the streets of Arizona is crazy and unworkable. But if this tactic helps us begin to straighten it all out by making what we do very public in our courts of law, then it will have made sense in a very nutty and unconventional way. Man, the of political dirty laundry is coming to the surface now that Democrats are at the helm is welcome by me - it's been a very long time coming and we're way overdue for fixing some of this stuff.