BJean

Thanks, karey. I'm glad to be joining in the fun (and productivity). As for the HCG thing, is that akin to the Human Growth Hormone stuff? I've heard a little about that but nothing about HCG injections. I did Medifast for 6 weeks quite a while back. It restricts you to 600 calories a day and you drink what I thought was a vile concoction of their powder and your water, ice and flavorings. It was tough. I believe that they have improved their powder since then. But I have also heard talk that it is being frowned upon except in cases of extreme obesity where somene's life is in imminent danger. Now that's just hearsay - I do not know that as a fact. But your son may have heard something about it. I went to an medical endocrinologist at the time. I honestly believe that my body became more efficient at storing fat after I did Optifast. After a couple of years, I went into perimenopause and began gaining weight. I was never able to get back to metabolizing fat like I did before the 600 calorie a day fast. Back then I could still run and even that didn't do much to help me lose like it always had in the past. Now I'm no doctor or biochemistry expert, and the drastic change in metabolism that I had to deal with may have been simply due to the perimenopause thing, who knows. I know you are anxious to get where you want to be. You've done so well and you're looking so great that it is inspiring you to be the best you can be. I don't blame you one bit for wanting to get it off fast and be done with it. The only reason I told you about my experience is because 500 calories a day is even less than the 600 I did for six weeks and that makes me worry a little. If you have found a reputable doctor who believes in taking this course of action, knowing what you've recently been through, then of course I'm behind you 100%.

I sure can't argue with the fact that McCain is experienced. I don't think that he will make a good president, but I can't fault his life experiences. I honestly think he is too old and a little too out of shape to handle the job. I'm not really guessing about that. I know how much things deteriorate as we get over 55. Let's all remember the last few years of Reagan's final term and give McCain's age some serious consideration. Another for instance... my good neighbor was a fighter pilot for the Navy. Yes, he did tours in 'nam and as a career, it doesn't get much more strenuous than being a Navy fighter pilot. He's now 71 and he is very involved in an organization for retired military pilots. In fact, he holds one of the highest offices and he travels frequently for various meetings/conferences, etc. He tells me how hard it is these days to get it all done. He loves his duties in the organization but he feels he needs to step down and allow someone who is more energetic do his job. And here's a guy who still edges his lawn because he doesn't like the way his lawn guys do it. In a really high wind the other day, a section of our heavy cedar fence was blown down into the alley after being hit by flying patio furniture. He single-handedly (after delivering meals on wheels) pulled that huge, very heavy section of fence out of the ally and into our driveway. So yeah, he's still in good shape and he's still active mentally, but he'll be the first to tell you that he is not as quick thinking and fast on his feet as he used to be. Btw, his kids are in their 50's.

Well what we've tended to vote for in the past are people who have been deemed very "qualified" for the office. You've pointed out quite eloquently how that has worked out for us. Maybe what we really need are less qualified plain old American folks who give a rats patoot for a change. Actually some of the most effective congressmen from time to time have been the inexperienced ones who have come in wanting to change the system. I disagree that nothing good ever comes out of Washington though. I just think that nothing MUCH good comes out of Washington. Occasionally we have a shining moment that is inspiring. Many of the small accomplishments are lost on the general public because they get no media coverage. Good stuff doesn't tend to sell. Controversial and bad stuff does. I like Pelosi as compared to many others up there. She works for what she believes in and doesn't mince words about it. Of course I know you don't see it that way, but I definitely do. In fact, I rather admire her brass ovaries.

P.S. My son and DIL didn't want a big wedding so they got married at the Little Brown Church (where Nancy and Ronnie Reagan got married) with no family or friends present. Just them and the preacher and some music. They said they thought it was just going to be like a Vegas wedding, wham bam, thank you mam, but it was very sweet, very romantic and it meant a whole lot to them. A month later we and her mom and dad gave them a fantastic party at our house. Had it catered by a fabulous Orlando Asian caterer and we stayed up all night drinking champagne with Plum wine and orchids and eating from a buffet table with 8 woks and a huge Lion's head costume in the center. Asian lanterns hanging all over the place, etc. Just think about what you want and start getting ideas and make it your own.

I'm late, I'm late, I'm late... for a very important date!!! July 1st. Hey girls, count me in!! I need to get this last 20 to 25 lbs. off too. If I can actually get the first 20 off, I won't mind taking a little longer for the last 5. So my near term goal for this challenge is 20 lbs.!!! I'm thrilled to be back with some of my September bandsters! MinMi: You should honestly figure out what you really, really want to do and then make a plan. Maybe you can have a real heart to heart with your mom and let her know how really much you want your wedding to be in the Caribbean and ask her if there is any way she could pull off getting there. A little begging when it is that important to you can't hurt, can it? My friends were appalled that my daughter didn't want a big wedding. She didn't even want them to give her any showers. They still don't understand, but she would have been very uncomfortable with all that. As it was, we only had 100 guests (and that was PLENTY) at an extremely beautiful golf course and the whole wedding party and the guests and everyone still rave about the wedding being the most beautiful they've ever seen and the party as being the best, get-down rockin' blast they've ever had at a wedding. Stick to your guns. It's your wedding and they'll be your memories forever! Of course if having more people there is more important, that may mean you'll need to compromise, but I'm sure there's a reasonable answer for everyone. If not, you and your fiancee should win!

Hang in there, hon. As my dear dietician says, we need to celebrate our successes no matter how small and put the failures completely out of our minds. She says our brains are very powerful and if we think of ourselves as failing, it can turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. (And we can't believe others when they tell us we're failing either!)

Brandy I am sure you are puking sick and tired of seeing your name in print in this context. I apologize to you as well. I certainly never intended for you to be hurt even more by these exchanges. On a positive note, I'll bet your skin is a lot thicker and hereafter you'll be well able to take care of yourself without any input from the likes of me!

Jachut: I think in retrospect everything you're claiming about the way you feel regarding the Brandy bout is clear. I do get it. Serously. But when the fracas was ongoing, your language and that of serveral others did not come across as being anything but completely intolerant and even accusatory. I don't have any problem whatsoever with anyone telling their stories and calling someone on it when they've been asked for advice and then that person does not take the advice - especially when their reasons for not taking the advice are flimsy excuses. What I complained about were the words that became very personal affronts to someone who was honestly struggling and wanting to open a dialogue about it. You are a person with a particular way of thinking and so am I. We're not bound to change one another, but if we read something that the other has posted that we vehemently diagree with, it's pretty certain that we're going to say something. You and I both have strong personalities, that's for sure. I understand that and I believe you understand that, but I don't think that everyone else does and I hate like hell to see someone get hurt here when they are having serious problems, just because you or I have strong opinions and we like to voice them. I usually welcome it when someone lets me know I've stepped over the boundaries of civility and it has certainly happened before. I can handle it. And I hope that you and I become friends because we'd spent some time communicating back and forth and in trying to understand each other, and we're actually learning where each other's coming from. At this point, I'm sure you aren't a bad person. I hope you can say the same for me.

laurend: Whoa there. I apologize if I put words in your mouth that you never intended. I added that little sentence about your post because I felt a very strong undercurrent in a couple of your previous posts on this topic when you let me know that you thought I was out of line. I was extremely disappointed that you would choose to call me down since I have on so many occasions supported you. I guess I thought that if you disagreed with me you might just see your way clear to let it pass without comment. But heck, you gotta do what you gotta do and obviously your support of the way BrandyII was being treated said it quite plainly. I decided not to say anything before now but when you felt it necessary to post that perhaps when a person is having problems and can't handle the heat at LBT they should go someplace else where they can find peace and support, I just felt I needed to let you know I thought that was going too far. If the language I used is stronger than yours, just know that it is how your post read to me. I guess you, for one, aren't ready to let it go and if this ridiculous discussion is ever going to go away, I'm going to have to just stop responding to the things I find to be rude and unacceptable.

In your earlier post (4:38) Jachut you said that maybe since you're no longer losing weight and you're into the maintainance phase you may just not feel real tolerant of those people who aren't getting the job done. There may really be something to that. And honestly I can understand that. It's been boring to me sometimes when I read post after post where like flipper said, they're not eating correctly, not exercising, and wondering why the band isn't working. Sounds like laurend is definitely feeling that way too since she seems willing to toss some of us out on our ears without a backward glance. I think the problem with some parts of this discussion and most of BrandyII's thread is that we have people at diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum in our journeys. We're just not communicating. You don't have the patience to offer anything supportive beyond telling us that the only means to the end is lots and lots of exercise (preferably running) and very little food. Whereas some of us who are still having difficulty reaching our goals and who are groping with emotional issues that we are trying to get past, feel that this hard-assed, hard-lined attitude is not helpful and is way too harsh. I think we've beaten this old horse to death and I suggest that we get back to the interesting stories about people's personal experiences and what they've learned and stop calling trying to correct each other. Okay? Anybody got a problem with that? :blushing:

I was excited when the discussion spoke to depression and depression as it affects overeating. There were a couple of awesome posts about that!!

Sorry you missed 'em Ninja, check out their posts on pages 7 and 8. We didn't bring it up again. They just never let it go and we got tired of it - once again. Hey I gotta say everyone has a right to post anything they want - and Jachut certainly has claimed this post as her very own so she certainly can post whatever she deems fit to print. We are equally free to protest certain attitudes and language if we choose. Nobody likes whiners or even whingers (to speak the Queen's English) and I think we all agree on that. What some of us don't care for is someone bullying someone else and others piling on. And I just didn't see it as "tough love" it stank more like gloating and sneering much of the time.

Whingers wasn't in my dictionary. I thought they were spelling whiners incorrectly because they seemed to be talking about hating whiners. My mistake. Complainers compaining about complainers makes more sense. :Angel_anim:

Sades: I think we all judge other people. It's in our nature. But not all of us find it necessary to publically dress someone down who we judge to be inferior to us. You have to wonder why people got enjoyment out of that and why they seem to want to continue ragging on about it.

*Jasmine* I don't think it is whiners they seem to have a problem with - it's whingers.

I find if someone is seriously wanting to share the reason for their success and if they seriously care about another person, whom let's call Joan, they will share their story and take the time to go into details about how they felt going through the process. Let's say Joan doesn't accept the help or just doesn't get it, or just isn't willing to make a change, a truly caring person will probably realize that they wasted their time, but you wouldn't expect them to just haul off and verbally slap Joan in the face and tell her that she is lazy and keep heaping on other negative insults. Because if she did, her "caring" would seem extremely disingenuous.

Jack to answer your earlier questions: yes, and I darned sure hope so. As for your last remarks are you suggesting that we set up some kind of licensing and testing for political candidates?

Ghrelin, huh? Amn't familiar with that term. Gonna have to Google it. I'll bet my bod is good at making that stuff.

Nanook: That's funny! I don't have the stomach for actually running for public office. I don't know how my Dad did it. I've served on 4 homeowner's boards of different neighborhood Homeowners' Associations in 4 different states and that was surprisingly political! Sometimes the people who wind up serving on boards like that are way too hungry for power and they like to shove people around in the neighborhood. It can get ridiculous! Fortunately in this town, the neighborhoods employ privately owned companies to manage the affairs of the neighborhoods. I like that except right after we moved into our house here, I got a card repremanding me for putting a quite lovely small bird bath in my front flowerbed. They carded me for not having drawn plans submitted to and approved by the board. For a 3 foot bird bath! Yeah, right. Moved the sucker to the back yard and just lived with it. Most people would defy the association and dare them to come after them. That's just not worth the hassle to me. Besides, rules is rules.

Right on, Pearlygirl. After I enjoyed my first intitial weight loss with the band, over 40 lbs., and then settled into a slower pace, I kept being very disappointed in the 1 to 2 lb weight loss per week and tended to beat myself up for not being able to achieve quicker results. The dietician I met with regularly, who has a very well-rounded educational background, routinely got onto me for being too hard on myself. She said that I should feel great about losing, no matter what the amount, and that not giving myself credit for what I was accomplishing was self-defeating behavior. It has taken me a long time to get it. I had spent years being too hard on myself, not believing compliments, and using self-deprecating humor to handle most things. I think that may be a familiar bit of behavior experienced by lots of us who are battling or have battled the bulge. The dietician also says that many people who are susceptible to addiction are way too hard on themselves. They never are able to quite live up to their own standards. She may have something there. Btw, I agree that you can't lump all obese people into one category of being addicted to food. If you could, treating obesity could be handled the same way for everyone and we might all be taking 12 steps or methadone.

great post, snowbird. I've gone through a similar thought process and I sure enjoyed reading your thoughts on addiction and obesity. I had about a year of acupuncture treatments at one point in my life and a very good friend of mine was a chain smoker. She asked if acupuncture could help her. The doctor I was seeing told me that he could definitely cure the physical addiction to tobacco, but that he would not be able to cure the mental addiction and behavioral patterns that she had spent years doing. My friend did wind up going to him and in fact, she was able to quit (after trying everything else). However years later, when her husband had some severe medical problems and she was very stressed, she reverted to her old behavior and dependence on nicotine. She's hooked again and recently told me she's going to begin withdrawal again through acupuncture treatments. We are very strong creatures sometimes and very fragile at other times. None of this is simple, and if we can learn from each other, and garner some support from time to time, this is a good place to get involved. Sometimes we even learn when we're beaten about the head, neck and shoulders. :-)

Wow. These latest posts are really, really helpful! So much insight and wisdom here. I hope lots of people are tuning in. It has helped me get refocused and think a little more about how great it's been since I lifted the veil of depression that I was in for so long. If our disagreeable exchanges helped to generate these fantastic posts, it may have been a good exercise for us, not a bad one. If a few raw feelings got exposed in the process that may be a good thing too. Maybe we need to name the thread Dr. Jachut's Musings.

One of the biggest disappointments to me in my lifetime (if you don't count the assassinations) was to see that Bill Clinton was unable and unwilling to stand up to it all. He had big dreams and made wonderful promises, but it didn't take long for those to be shut down. He did manage some worthwhile things during his tenure, but nothing like we'd hoped. One person who did try to stand up to try to change the way things are done in Washington was Jimmy Carter. He was booed out of town and ridiculed by congress. And the public went along with the booing. He was nearly impotent as a president. But I don't believe he sold out like the Clintons and I respect him for that. He has worked since he's been out of office to do good things all around the globe. And interestingly, he is criticized constantly for it. Meantime, Bill Clinton has become wealthy. He and elder Bush made a few appearances and said some good stuff, but neither of them has done anything very impressive other than building their empires. And that, I'll admit, has been impressive. You don't hear me criticizing Nixon, Reagan or George W. and that is because they sold out even before they took office. They really never promised any changes to improve the way Washington does business and that's exactly what they delivered. They enjoyed the fruits of the way things are done and they started building their empires way before they left office. I understand why Jack feels so jaded, but I hope I never give up on the idea that things can improve. The Washington "system" has evolved into such a giant self-fulfilling circle of reinforcement, it may never be able to be changed. But it sure won't change if we don't figure it out and demand more of our politicians, just as we must turn away from our dependance on oil instead of allowing those who profit from it run this country into the ground.

Leslie2lose: Wow, that was a powerful story. I could relate to much of it. I'll never forget the day my niece showed me a picture of me sitting on my sofa and I didn't recognize myself. Seriously. I asked her, "who is that?" Talk about denial!! You sound very Enlightened, as does Juli and I am very impressed with you both.

P.S. I hope if you think of it and get a chance, you'll tell him that many of us here at LBT are grateful for the job he did and we are very proud of him.