BJean

Interesting. That guy is a vocal opponent for the very thing that he used to believe in. Guess that would make a guy pretty passionate on the topic. But we also know and understand that there are hundreds, if not thousands of doctors who may or may not choose to perform abortions on women who need them, but who absolutely support a woman's right to choose and do believe that the Constitution of the United States of America applies to women as well as men.

Honestly I only post stuff like that to counteract, just a little, some of the ridiculous links that get posted. I like your open-minded assessment, Steve.

THE JUXTAPOSITION OF FACTS....A USEFUL PERSPECTIVE....... ----- A question of perspective : Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin, what if things were switched around?..... think about it. Would the country's collective point of view be different? Could racism be the culprit? Ponder the following: What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter? What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review? What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class? What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee? What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards? What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married? What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization? What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard? What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five? (The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.) What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker? What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter? What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes? What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem? What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distribution? What if the Obamas had adopted a white child? You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are? This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference. Educational Background: Barack Obama: Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations. Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude Joseph Biden: University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science. Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.) vs. John McCain: United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899 Sarah Palin: Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the world. You make the call. ------

Acorn is trying to get people who have not participated in the voting process in America to get registered and vote. There is nothing harmful in that. In fact, it is admirable. The fact that one of their workers filled out a form and used "Mickey Mouse" doesn't indict the entire organization. The inciteful crap that Fox "News" reports notwithstanding. If you wanted a fair and democratic election, you would welcome an organization that was trying to help people get registered. I don't know why you accpeted the results of the 2004 election, Steve G., but there was a problem with electronic voting machines that were skewed to give Republicans more votes than they actually got. It was not a true and honest election - nor was the 2000 election. There has been lots of research released on the subject, and election fraud in the U.S. has been a very real problem. Now as for Acorn, they do not count votes. They do not even have the authority to allow someone to vote or to forbid them to. If someone lies on a voter registeration APPLICATION, it is not their fault. However, they have been very good at finding APPLICATIONS that their people have turned in that are fraudulent. Once they discover those fraudulent APPLICATIONS, they bring them to the attention of the Election Board. And by the way, the employees who took the fraudulent APPLICATIONS are assessed to see if they are intentionally taking fraudulent APPLICATIONS or if they have done it without the intention of defrauding the Election Board. Once they determine that, they either fire the worker or they retrain them. If you cared to know the truth, you could have tuned into the real news and learned all of this in the press conference that revealed this information and much more. If you wonder why I have put the word "application" in all caps, above, it is because Acorn only has the authority or power to take voter registration APPLICATIONS. They do not have the power to actually log a voter's registration into the Election Board's records. The Election Boards are supposed to be doing the verifying and actual placing voters on the election rolls. So as Steve suggested, this is a red herring and something brought about to divert the attention away from the real issues. I imagine more of these types of things will continue to be brought into the election since the Republicans have become so desperate. We can all listen to Fox "News" and learn of them first. Now as for an honest and fair election process, I just hope that when I go to the polls, that if I am presented with an opportunity to vote using an electronic machine, I will be given the alternative to use a paper ballot that can be there for the re-count, if a re-count becomes necessary. Which right now, looks very likely. And somehow I'll bet the fact that some boards are trying to once again disenfranchise certain voters in certain swing state areas, will only disturb you based on with whether you're a Democrat or a Republican.

What some of you don't understand is that the question is not about whether the fertilized egg is an individual life, or there's just a blob of tissue present, or call it a clump of cells that will soon look like a fish, a zygote in waiting, or any other label you want to pin on it. That is not the issue. The issue regarding Roe v. Wade, that you want to overturn, is about a woman's Constitutional rights. You place your beliefs above those of every woman in our country. You insist that your beliefs are not only correct, but that they are more important than each and every other American woman's Constitutional rights. I understand why you believe what you believe. But you may never understand why you are so completely and utterly wrong to insist on taking a woman's Constitutional rights away. You cannot pass laws that govern the fetus when it affects the life of its' host. That you can call it a conflict of interests may be correct in your mind, but the life of a blob of tissue (by whatever name you wish to call it) does not have any constitutional rights. It is not an independent human being and that blob of tissue cannot be ruled to be more important than the woman who is carrying it, i.e., give it Constitutional rights that are deemed to be more important than the woman's. Again if you believe that once a sperm has swum its' way up the tube, seeks out an egg and penetrates it, that it is instantly a baby, then by all means do your best to help the woman who is that fertilized egg's host bring that baby to term. However, you must stop short of physical intrusion and governmental control of that woman. You can't force the woman to adopt, you can't force her to have the fertilized egg extracted and given to another woman, or other physically intrusive actions. And you must stop short of taking away that woman-host's basic American provided Constitutional rights! No fair, no way, no how.

P.S. Watcher, neither can I understand how people can vote the same party back in that put us in such a precarious position internationally and that spent us into the ground so bad we have no idea how we're ever going to get out. The same party that insists on the "trickle down" theory of economics when we have lived it and know that it does not work! If you all don't know, by the way, what John McCain plans for Social Security and don't understand exactly how his medical plan would work, I highly suggest you research and understand them before it's too late and you are blindsided.

You know what... yes, I know that I sound rabid and passionate. But it is not without very good reason! If you don't understand or want to understand what happened in the past two elections, you can't understand my concern and fear about the upcoming election. I get that. At this point, I believe that we need to stop worrying about the political rehtoric being passed back and forth and worry about exactly how we're going to be assured of having a legal, honest election. They're telling us that if we go to our polling place and find electronic voting machines, we should demand a paper ballot. I wish it were that simple.

Unplanned pregnancies and remedies cannot to be classified in a 1, 2, 3, 4 grocery list of reasonsing. There are some usual reasons; some that could be classified together, like due to a grisley rape, for instance. But people are all different with different problems, physical limitations, mental limitations, religious beliefs, scientific beliefs and social beliefs. To try to lump everyone who might consider abortion into a group you've decided is relevant, is blindlingly ridiculous. The whole point is: you have no right to intervene in another woman's bodily processes, nor do you have a right to judge her and choose her course of action about an unwanted, unplanned pregnancy. Just because you believe that abortion is nothing more than killing, doesn't mean that everyone views it in those terms. Not everyone takes the Bible literally, and not every Christian agrees with a singular assessment of what constitutes life. People often sound like they are so endoctrinated in one narrow way of thinking that they have no capacity to understand that things are not simple, and that there are valid physiological and psychological reasons why abortion should be an option for women. Once again, I know I sound like a broken record, but you have every right to not have an abortion. You have every right to speak your mind and try to convince people that abortion is wrong in your belief system. But what you're wanting to do is to take away my rights. YOU want to tell me that what you believe is the only truth. YOU want to tell me that I have no right to control my own body and my own medical treatment. YOU insist that if I chose to have an abortion, I am nothing but a murderer. YOU have no right to call anyone who chooses abortion that. YOU are not the decider. YOU are not God. What a woman chooses to do when she finds that her birth control method failed, or she finds that she may die if she bears a child, or that her child doesn't have a brain or doesn't have a healthy heart or lungs and will be severely handicapped, or that she has been raped and brutalized and has become impregnanted by someone who is insane and that the insanity can be part of the genetic makeup of the fertilized egg she has inside her body, or millions of other reasons that cause a woman to consider abortion, is wholly within her rights and not a decision for you or the government. Take a woman's right to choose away? No fair. No way. No how.

Well said, Kat! To answer the question though, you are darned right that I am pro-choice and anti-spanking. I honestly believe that I value life more than most people. I believe that babies are far too important than to treat them like a commodity, passed from one parent to another. I am not anti-adoption, but I sure wouldn't encourage anyone to give their child up. I believe adoption can be a wonderful thing and I also believe that it can turn out quite badly. It should not be treated as a basis for a law that requires every woman to bear every child in each and every case without exception. As for how it relates to spanking - it goes hand in hand as far as I'm concerned. The more informed and experienced I become in my life, the easier it is for me to understand these things.

Kids do not grow up to be unruly, disrespectful or truant because they haven't been physically spanked! And God would never want us to hit our children, no matter what we call it. If corporal punishment is the only way a person knows to keep their children from growing up to be delinquents, they need to get into some serious parenting classes.

I am certainly no medical expert - just a banded patient with an incredible doctor and his staff. Not too long ago they put out the word that due to recent studies, LB patients should not be taking pills - of any kind. They insist that we use Centrum chewable viamins. And as for any other usual meds that you need that cannot be crushed, they told us that we need to consult our physicians to get something that doesn't have to swallowed whole. I asked if I never had a problem taking pills (as of the 2nd year after banding) do I need to heed that advice? I was told that it is extremely risky for many reasons and that I am taking my life into my own hands if I continue to take pills - especially large ones. Upon further probing, I was told that one of the reasons is that LB patients have been known to choke and aspirate medications - which they said can be lethal. I'm taking my life into my own hands because I do continue to take small pills. I am very careful and take my time and pay a lot of attention when I take them though. Just wanted to share, for what it's worth.

I think that one reason that the election process hasn't been changed in the past 8 years is because none of us wanted to believe that something like that could happen to us in America. We all want to believe that our elections are honest and representative of what the majority of Americans believe in and want for this country. By the same token, we all want to believe that we can trust our bankers and our brokers too. We've been terribly naive and woefully ignorant of how greed corrupts, both in politics and the financial institutions in America. I have been amazed at how quickly Britain and some other European countries have acted to fix their financial woes. We Americans often are paralyzed and too slow to realize the truth of what's happening. And they have been dealing with terrorists up close and personal for many, many years. They have had to learn how to react quickly in crises. I must say though, I wonder if I am the only one who was competely amazed at how quickly our government shut down the airports on 9/11. It was out of character for us as a nation. For instance, think about the firemen and others who didn't get out of the buildings before they collapsed. And think about all the people who stood outside the buildings in shock, only to be sucked into the fray. But as usual, I digress. I believe that the primary reason that Senator Barack Obama is needed in this country is that he is extremely smart and he is quick to identify problems and go about solving them. I cannot say that of John McCain.

Hey Jack, I really appreciate your post on this one and I respect you a lot for it.

So the woman is raped and YOU get to decide for her that she must relive that experience for 9 months and then keep looking the product of that rape hard in the face, feeding it, nurturing it and loving it for the rest of her life? Or do you insist that she give it up for adoption because YOU think that is the best thing for everyone involved? You all have every right to behave in that manner if you get raped. You have no right to determine what is right in each and every case of rape for each and every woman everywhere. You will never convince me that rape is God's plan for impregnating a woman and producing a child. God gave people free will. YOU do not have the right to play God. For someone to say that there are NO EXCEPTIONS EVER and that every woman, by law, must bring to term each and every fertilized sperm that occurs, is wrong, wrong, wrong. I believe it is your right to make that decision for yourself, but not for every other woman in America. This is something that we cannot take a giant step backward on. If you don't understand the reason for women's right to choose, I am sorry for you. But making abortion illegal does not work. Spend your time and energy helping women who find themselves impregnated without their consent. Work for them and the unborn children. Help those children when they are born. But leave the physical medical decision of whether to have a child up to the individual. It is their right, not yours.

MissFFs: I challenge you to go back through all the posts here and at the other one pertaining to this subject and see just how many assinine links have been posted by Republicans and how many have been posted by Democrats. My only reason for posting any links (which I try to rarely do) was in response to someone accusing me of saying that the Republicans put out lies and innuendo as their campaign plan of action. I believe that's the way they win elections - that and voter booth fraud. I believe this because I have witnessed it myself, starting with Richard Nixon's bad guys. (One of whom is a big McCain supporter and who McCain saw fit to rub elbows with and take his money.) The Democrats are up against it. They are not willing to commmit crimes like the Republicans just to get elected. And if you will notice one thing I'd appreciate it: as a rule, Obama speaks to McCain's proposed plans for the country, he does not lie or insult personally, or attack McCain on a personal moral basis. Although as you probably saw, there have been some reasons that he could have done just that. If anyone sticks to the issues, it is Senator Obama. I'm not saying that each and every ad that the Democrats run are pure as the driven snow, but by comparison to the Republican rabid dog ads, the Democratic ones are baby kittens. Have you ever watched the documentary, "Murder, Spies and Voter Lies"? Most of us know what happened in the past two presidential elections - and I believe it probably was also true in the case of the Tom Bradley defeat in California. You see, I just don't believe in the "Bradley Theory" that the media is touting right now. But I do believe in illegal elections because I have been witness to it. Let me ask you this,why would people think it is cool to say that they voted for someone other than who they actually voted for when they come out of the voting places? And why would they do it in such incredibly high numbers? Do you think that there was an underground agreement for everyone to throw off the media so that they would air early announcements that the Democrats won - just as a lark? Or what's your theory? You buy the Bradley Theory? If Obama doesn't win and the exit polls have pointed to the Democrats winning again, there should be marches on the White House and we should rise up and demand a new election - one where the people count the paper votes in the town squares.

I disagree. Those links aren't from another universe. They're from people who have become very upset about the lies that the Republicans have put forth about the Democratic candidate for president. The people who authored those two pieces I posted links to, want to distribute via the 'net, the same kind of bunk that they've been reading everyday about Obama, only they make their bunk about McCain and Palin. There's lots more where that came from but I honestly do not wish to be one of the people who posts links all the time, knowing that the links are nothing but made up stories, like the extremists here at LBT do. I realize that Republicans aren't used to this behavior from Democrats, but let's face it you sure can't blame them. We've had to put up with the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter for years and from someone like T. Boone Pickins and other anonymous authors of extremist garbage fostered to make people fear Obama - a man who has worked hard for people - and a man who has been a Christian his entire life - a man who has been severly maligned and who has seen fit to rise above it. You better believe I will do a victory dance if he wins. I'm really tired of being beaten down by the lies and innuendo the Republicans have heaped on each and every nominee they oppose. Tired and sick of their dirty tricks at the polls and election boards. Tired and sick of people saying that both parties do it, when up until now it has been the Republicans who have won dishonestly. If the Democrats have learned that the only way to win is to play the game the Republican way, then maybe they'll have a fighting chance in this political game, which will be an enormous change in this country. And we darned sure need change, Jack. Surely you can agree with that.

Here's another one you will probably think is relevant. http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2008/09/show-me-trig-palin-birth-certificate_03.html You don't have to thank me. I know how much you all appreciate swapping pertinent links.

Ok, here's a Republican tactic. Obviously this kind of thing is more to your liking. http://www.zimbio.com/Bristol+Palin/articles/342/Sarah+Palin+Want+Baby+Die

MissyG: That was phunny!! There's just no end to the links posted here to political trash, it seems. I am beginning to have a peaceful calmness about this race. The Republicans seem to be finally going too far, even for Republicans. The day the Republicans post their true intentions and philosophy on the internet is the day we will never see. The reason: they cannot win a presidential election based on what their actual goals and intentions are. So they have no choice but to make up outrageous lies and distribute misinformation about their opponents and many of you here are instruments of their evil. Kinda makes my skin crawl. But no matter, I am calm and serene. I believe that most people are onto the Republicans these days. I'm sure they will keep stepping it up a notch. The latest (as of yesterday) of having a few plants at McCain's rallies scream out more and more obscene rehtoric is effectively putting a nail in the coffin of McCain's campaign.

Well ulp, gosh Missy G. you ought to listen to Rush. I'll bet you'd find him interesting too. He has a whole lot to say on all kinds of (made up)subjects and he certainly has interesting ways of looking at today's topics. Just as Ann Coulter's way of looking at stuff is interesting. They are certainly great at adult conversation. I'm so relieved that they are around to bring such fascinating viewpoints (lies) to public light. Golly gee, sarcasm is such fun sometimes!

Shout out to tha 3rd grade.. Joe Six Pack... Heels on and gloves off... etc., etc. How can you tell she's an educated woman? Dan Quayle had an education. George W. had an education. There are no guarantees that just because you got a coupla degrees that you'll use 'em for the greater good. I find Sarah Palin ridiculous and disgusting. Not because of her use or abuse of the English language. Not because she flirts and grins a disengenuous toothy grin. I find her disgusting because of her politics. She's just exactly what this country does not need. She's just exactly the kind of person who wants to take away some of my basic American freedoms. She's as scary as the helicopter she hunts from. And she reminds me a lot of some of the women I've worked with who made it to the top because they were willing to do just about anything to get there and whom you couldn't trust to do anything for anyone but themselves. Women can be real stinkers sometimes and she is stinking the loudest right now. She relishes her role as a rabid dog and she does it very well. And you can be sure that I have these feelings because of my own personal beliefs - not because I've read something someone else has written or something I heard someone else say on TV. To think that Sarah Palin could actually become the President of the United States makes my blood run cold and the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I feel like a caribou trapped in her sights right now. She's a threat to me, big time. Joe Biden has done a fantastic job in the Senate. He has worked hard and long for the people. He's just as qualified to run this country as John McCain and is the better man. Senator Obama has had more mud slung at him than even John Kerry. (And you people who praise McCain because of his war record but who bought into the Swift Boat ads, should be ashamed of yourselves.) Of course all of this is IMHO - you have yours, I have mine. I pray to the Lord each and every night to deliver us from the evil that the Republicans have perpetrated on the American people and continue to perpetrate. I pray that people will stop being blinded by the lies and start throwing the bums out. We're their bosses ya know. And btw, middle class Americans did not cause the bail out mess. They did not profit from the deregulation that the Republicans insisted upon. Corporate America did. And John McCain and the Republican party represent corporate America. Throw the bums out!

Thanks for the link, Jack, but why would anyone want to hear what Ann Coulter has to say? I guess if they're listening to Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter is probably interesting to them as well. Go figure. Anyone want to argue about how the color of a person's skin affects a man's ability to be president any more than a person's limited mobility or range of motion in his arms does? If we can discuss one, the other is certainly fair game. Although I would argue against name calling in either case.

Great to hear from you Wheet! As a matter of fact, if Palin were a man, she'd be laughed off the stage - like our old friend Dan Quayle was. Inexperience and light in the boots mentality always crosses gender lines. Her performance last night was just that, a performance. She did not give direct answers and she avoided any potential problems by reiterating something she had already said. She was insulting to her opponent and he didn't take the bait. They were both very well-rehearsed. She was well-scripted but it hurt her to not have a better grasp on reality - or maybe it served her well. No one seems to be calling her on it. I watched several reports on different chanels last night and they all agreed that Biden won - hands down. Now what they're saying this morning I have no idea - I'm supposed to be packing for Vegas. Palin does believe that Roe v. Wade should be overturned and she does not think that same sex couples should be treated exactly as male/female couples. They let that slide. Of course even if someone tried to pin her down on her true beliefs, she has the maneuvers down perfectly on how to hide her real agenda. If you don't believe me, just read gadgetlady's passionate love of all things Palin. She makes it very clear for all of us. I thought Palin's nearly final answer was very telling - about what she'd do if McCain were to die and leave her with the presidency - frankly it looked to me like she's counting on it... wink, grin, wink, grin, wink, wink.

When I said congress was controlled by Republicans for the past 12 years, I mean prior to the current Demo control. The Republicans keep yelling that the Democratic controlled Congress has done nothing to fix all the stuff [the Republicans] have fouled up. They always forget to mention that they are the ones who got us here and that the Dems have only had a short time with more Democratic potential votes and that we continue to have a dishonest President who loves using his veto power. For heaven's sake, give us a break. We're not all completely stupid and ignorant of the facts. But I gotta say, if you're buying what they're saying, you just might be.

I believe that the ultra conservatives have stolen the Republican party away from mainstread Republicans. I have voted Republican in the past and my husband is a staunch Republican. However, we both agree that the Constitution is a scared document that the current administration has knowingly ignored, with malice in their hearts. Too many neo-cons believe that they know it all and that they should always be in charge, telling us who is patriotic and who is not, deciding whether we should go to war against our enemies or not. These new power grabbing, greedy, ignoramuses have been in control of the Congress for about 12 years. We are seeing only some of the aftermath of their way of doing things. It is time to throw the bums out!!! And that includes John McCain. He wants us to think of him as being on our side, but in nearly every case, he agrees with the current administration's actions. Besides, he likes the power that the war would give him. He should have stayed in the military and become a general like Patton. I feel sorry for true moderate conservatives in this country. Many of them must be struggling with what they hear their leaders tell them (over the past 12 years, especially) and what they've done while they've had the power and they've got to be very conflicted over this election process. I am not conflicted in the least. I know that Senator Obama is extremely capable and is extremely intelligent and that he will lead this country better than it has been lead in well over a decade. I am sorry that so many people fear someone (Senator Obama) who is a person who has proven that he cares about the working class. I don't have any pie-in-the sky illusions about what I believe he can accomplish while in office. On the other hand, I know exactly what we will get if we elect the McCain-Palin ticket and I honestly wonder how much worse it can get with Republicans at the helm. If Palin actually were to step into the Presidency, God Help Us All!! George W. Bush's actions would pale by comparison. I say this because she has proven it by her words and actions.