BJean

You consider Erica Jong a credible source of information? Have you read her books? Not that I disagree. I just don't consider Erica Jong the smartest bulb on the porch. If a backlash happens because Senator Obama loses, and if there is blood in the streets, it will be shed by the pro-Obama people, caused by their oppositions brutality, if history tells us anything.

Diane that's the darned truth! I think everyone is frustrated by the length and ugliness of this campaign. It has made a lot of people want to vent. I cannot wait until it is over. Once Tuesday comes, we should have a lot of answers to many of our questions. Different questions could arise after the election day, but I think we all hope that there is no question about who the real winner is.

A "present" vote is different from no vote. You proabably don't know the reasoning behind some Senators voting "present." Ha, ha, ha. Since when have you cared one whit about what France thinks? Anybody want to discuss the fact that John McCain actually has "ties" to Bill Ayers and the "PLO" operative Palin, Karl Rove and Rudy Guliani have insinuated that Senator Obama consorted with? Interesting disclosure today. And no, McCain wasn't disclosing a thing. It was discovered by others and revealed on MSNBC. Also reported by CNN although not as in depth. Even Fox News has found recent assusations against Senator Obama to be utterly ridiculous. Wow. Never thought I'd see that day. Did you?

I find your comments interesting. Sometimes I wonder if we're all residing on the same planet though. Someone asked me about Joe the Plumber today and wondered if I thought that his entrance into the campaign was planned and orchestrated by the Republicans. I can't say that for certain, but I can say that I am very surprised that McCain has brought him onto his platform at rallies. Like he's trotting out a VIP. On the one hand, Senator Obama has some people helping him campaign who have serious credentials and credibility. On the other hand, you have Joe the Plumber. Whew. That sucks.

This is not for the faint of heart. A friend of mine sent me this today and since it is on the topic of this thread, I decided to share it with you. I thought twice about posting it. I hope no one is offended. "The thought of an assasination can make my stomach churn. I hope that you all never have to go through what we went through when Jack Kennedy was assasinated and then Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King were gunned down. "The riots were real. We flew into a small airport in Tennessee the weekend after Martin Luther King was assasinated and a very well-armed National Guard lined the streets through town. They weren't there for set decoration. "I think that those assasinations scarred our hearts. We were left feeling impotent and powerless. After crying for what felt like an eternity we ducked our heads and focused on our own little lives knowing that there was no hope for most of us. "Now Barack Obama has given us hope again. The hope that things can actually get better. "Maybe we can become the super power that we once were. It would be nice if we could be proud of our public school systems again. Maybe people will want to volunteer to make America better. What a concept. "We would like to stop being embarrassed everytime our president speaks. What if we could once again be a role model for other countries. Maybe other people could actually be able to respect us and learn from us. "Wouldn't it be wonderful if our children could be inspired to invent exciting technology that would save the environment. Maybe we could learn that money isn't the most important thing in our lives. "Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could actually have pride in being an American again. "I would like to think that we could experience true peace and happiness even in my lifetime. "I'm telling you that if they assasinate Barack Obama I hope we hang those bastards up by their toes and watching them bake in the sun until the radical terrorist assasins crawl back into the holes they crawled out of."

P.S. The idea that Senator Obama is too inexperienced to be president is no less discriminatory than saying that Senator McCain is too darned old to be running for president. Neither is absolutely true - but that doesn't stop people from saying those things.

I understand your point. And you said it well. But you can't deny that McCain is still associating with known felons - like G. Gordon Liddy. And unsavory characters like Karl Rove. I'm not sure exactly what he did learn from the Keating Five scandal.

Good Lord, you'd think so wouldn't you! But have you taken a good look at John McCain's entire campaign? It has been a matter of him making accusations against the Democrats and then having it discovered a while later that he has done exactly what he made the accusation about. Why has his campaign been such an embarrassing mess? It reminds me of the Democrats campaigns in the past. Karl- you've got some 'splainin' to do.

No, that list is not a comprehensive look at Senator Obama's accomplishments. It was a quick study of an isolated period of time. It's not a brand new study, nor the whole picture. It was just the first thing I came up with on google that proved my point. I doubt seriously if anyone here would be thrilled if I came up with some of the outrageous laws McCain has proposed, or even some of the nutty things he actually voted for in his career. We aren't wanting to discuss the merits of the "Keating Five" debacle are we?

Aw, come on. Jump on the bandwagon! It's going to be great being a part of getting this country back on its' feet and strong again!!! I just gotta say one last (we all hope) thing. About Joe the Plumber... do you realize that Joe the Plumber was a regular conservative talk show call in person? Was it a surprise to you that on the night and following morning after the debate, when McCain used Mr. Plumber ad naseum to make his points, Joe was out on his lawn holding court with his right wing rehtoric all neatly mapped out and ready to let loose on the public? Does it make any sense to you at all that McCain's policies will not financially help Joe, but Senator Obamas would? That is, IF poor Joe ever decided to actually be a grateful man for being an American and pay his taxes to help make this country work. Of course if his book deal comes through or he becomes a rock star, movie star or radio commentator, thereby joining the ranks of the wealthy, then the ideology he espouses would make sense. I make light of it, but I am really stumped as to why McCain would continue to use a tactic that is so painfully transparent.

washingtonpost.com > Columns Judge Him by His Laws » Links to this article By Charles Peters Friday, January 4, 2008; Page A21 People who complain that Barack Obama lacks experience must be unaware of his legislative achievements. One reason these accomplishments are unfamiliar is that the media have not devoted enough attention to Obama's bills and the effort required to pass them, ignoring impressive, hard evidence of his character and ability. Since most of Obama's legislation was enacted in Illinois, most of the evidence is found there -- and it has been largely ignored by the media in a kind of Washington snobbery that assumes state legislatures are not to be taken seriously. (Another factor is reporters' fascination with the horse race at the expense of substance that they assume is boring, a fascination that despite being ridiculed for years continues to dominate political journalism.) I am a rarity among Washington journalists in that I have served in a state legislature. I know from my time in the West Virginia legislature that the challenges faced by reform-minded state representatives are no less, if indeed not more, formidable than those encountered in Congress. For me, at least, trying to deal with those challenges involved as much drama as any election. And the "heart and soul" bill, the one for which a legislator gives everything he or she has to get passed, has long told me more than anything else about a person's character and ability. Consider a bill into which Obama clearly put his heart and soul. The problem he wanted to address was that too many confessions, rather than being voluntary, were coerced -- by beating the daylights out of the accused. Obama proposed requiring that interrogations and confessions be videotaped. This seemed likely to stop the beatings, but the bill itself aroused immediate opposition. There were Republicans who were automatically tough on crime and Democrats who feared being thought soft on crime. There were death penalty abolitionists, some of whom worried that Obama's bill, by preventing the execution of innocents, would deprive them of their best argument. Vigorous opposition came from the police, too many of whom had become accustomed to using muscle to "solve" crimes. And the incoming governor, Rod Blagojevich, announced that he was against it. Obama had his work cut out for him. He responded with an all-out campaign of cajolery. It had not been easy for a Harvard man to become a regular guy to his colleagues. Obama had managed to do so by playing basketball and poker with them and, most of all, by listening to their concerns. Even Republicans came to respect him. One Republican state senator, Kirk Dillard, has said that "Barack had a way both intellectually and in demeanor that defused skeptics." The police proved to be Obama's toughest opponent. Legislators tend to quail when cops say things like, "This means we won't be able to protect your children." The police tried to limit the videotaping to confessions, but Obama, knowing that the beatings were most likely to occur during questioning, fought -- successfully -- to keep interrogations included in the required videotaping. By showing officers that he shared many of their concerns, even going so far as to help pass other legislation they wanted, he was able to quiet the fears of many. Obama proved persuasive enough that the bill passed both houses of the legislature, the Senate by an incredible 35 to 0. Then he talked Blagojevich into signing the bill, making Illinois the first state to require such videotaping. Obama didn't stop there. He played a major role in passing many other bills, including the state's first earned-income tax credit to help the working poor and the first ethics and campaign finance law in 25 years (a law a Post story said made Illinois "one of the best in the nation on campaign finance disclosure"). Obama's commitment to ethics continued in the U.S. Senate, where he co-authored the new lobbying reform law that, among its hard-to-sell provisions, requires lawmakers to disclose the names of lobbyists who "bundle" contributions for them. Taken together, these accomplishments demonstrate that Obama has what Dillard, the Republican state senator, calls a "unique" ability "to deal with extremely complex issues, to reach across the aisle and to deal with diverse people." In other words, Obama's campaign claim that he can persuade us to rise above what divides us is not just rhetoric. I do not think that a candidate's legislative record is the only measure of presidential potential, simply that Obama's is revealing enough to merit far more attention than it has received. Indeed, the media have been equally delinquent in reporting the legislative achievements of Hillary Clinton and John Edwards, both of whom spent years in the U.S. Senate. The media should compare their legislative records to Obama's, devoting special attention to their heart-and-soul bills and how effective each was in actually making law. Charles Peters, the founding editor of the Washington Monthly, is president of Understanding Government, a foundation devoted to better government through better reporting. © 2008 The Washington Post Company Ads by Google News | Politics | Opinions | Local | Sports | Arts & Living | Going Out Guide Jobs | Cars | Real Estate | Rentals | Shopping SEARCH: washingtonpost.com Web Search Archives washingtonpost.com: About Us | Work for Us | Advertisers | Site Map | Search Terms | Topics Index | Make us your homepage | mywashingtonpost.com | Mobile | RSS | Widgets The Washington Post: Subscribe | Subscriber Services | Advertisers | PostPoints | Electronic Edition | Online Photo Store | The Washington Post Store | About The Post | National Weekly The Washington Post Company: Information and Other Post Co. 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I wish you would have taken the time to dissect those writings and researched what was written - and understood them as the exaggeration and misstatements and innuendo that it is full of. We can both go to places and post links where people write all kinds of B.S. about both candidates - it does not make them accurate or worthwhile pieces of reporting. Senator Obama has not lied about his relationship with Ayers or Rezko. He has told about his work and friendships and knowledge of these men. Last night John McCain, in an interview with Larry King, ranted and raved about the Rezko connection. Insinuating over and over that Rezko is a member of the PLO. And insinuating in the loudest, most indignant terms that Obama has a connection to the PLO. Or he said, I don't know, maybe he doesn't... but we need to know! Larry King later reported that not only is Rezko not a member of the PLO, he and Senator Obama have clashed openly over Rezko's discussion of certain Palestinian complaints. Larry King went on to say that after the careful research that they have done, there has been no additional contact or political relationship between the two men. That's again, just what this campaign is all about. They raise the question but they don't listen to the answer. They accuse Obama of all manner of anti-American, terrorist activity. When it is shown to them that they are wrong, they don't listen and furthermore they don't even change their rehtoric. That's blatantly dishonest politics and I hope most of the American people see it for what it is. And see McCain for what he is: a frustrated, angry, seething old man, not too good to pull out any dirty trick his camp can come up with to besmerch Senator Obama's very good record of achievements.

I didn't author the above - it was found by a very quick google I did.

Now, It is time to post Senator Obama’s record from the Library of Congress.I have to mention that Senator Obama’s list is too substantive, one is coalesced to categorize. Since its a lot, remember you can go to the Library of Congress website, and check it out yourself, but I am just summarizing his first 8 months. During Senator Obama’s first 8 eight months of elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced 233 bills regarding healthcare reform, 125 bills on poverty and public assistance, 112 bills on crime fighting, 97 economic bills, 60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills, 21 ethics reform bills, 15 gun control, 6 veterans affairs and many others. In his first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These included: (1)the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 that became LAW, (2)The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act that became LAW, (3)The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act that passed the Senate, (4)The 2007 Government Ethics Bill that became LAW, (5)The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill that is in committee just to name a few. In all since he entered the U.S. Senate, Senator Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1096. An impressive record, for someone who supposedly has no legislative record. Read the facts and not emotion.

Good post, Florida Pete!

Jack I just readjusted my reading glasses and see that what you were doing was sarcastically comparing Senator Obama's suggestion that our young people serve our country in some way in order to get a tuition break, being no different than the draft. But turn up your hearing aid dude, he hasn't suggested "mandatory" service. Have you only checked part of his record, as per your "performance" comment? Because so far he has been one of the most effective Senators we have. All the trash talk that the Republicans have done to besmerch Senator Obama's religious faith, criticize his desire to move forward in this country in a direction that will engage citizens instead of disenfranchising them, make changes in how we handle the economy so that the wealthiest in the country are not rewarded with exorbitent tax cuts, the insurance companies are not able to take us to the cleaners and control our health care system any longer, and for the Republicans to even say outrageous things about the people he knows and is friends with... is absolutely obsene, dishonest campaigning. Par for the course maybe, but good grief I hope you don't believe all that! I know some of you have bought it hook, line and sinker. Oh yeah, I forgot, you don't believe anyone can possibly be a good politician because all politicians are bad. Just like the broad statement the government is bad. Wake up people. Government is necessary. Politicians are necessary. Ctiticism can be a good thing. It can help us find ways of improving this country. Unless all you do is criticize and offer no real solutions. That's a waste of time. If you don't like one party's politics, you can just say you don't like their plan. But in this contest, there's only one candidate who is being truthful about his plan for the country. Only one man who has spent most of this race outlining exactly what he proposes to help get our nation strong again. That's Senator Obama. McCain has slung mud for the majority of this race and has been less than thruthful about his plans for change. He tells us that he wants change. He tells us that he's a maverick and doesn't like his party's policies. But he doesn't spend his time explaining his plan in detail. What he does say is that his theory of rewarding the wealthy will eventually help middle America but he doesn't explain how in the world that will happen. Because the "performance" we have seen for the past 8 years, the "performance" McCain has shown us and is promising to continue, is giving the real tax breaks to the wealthiest in America. Not only has that Republican ideology not helped middle America by providing the jobs he promises, it has nearly brought down the collapse of our entire economy. So if that talk does it for you - and that kind of performance is what you base your vote on, then Senator Obama is definitely not for you.

Ok you Liberalists who are calling me names for spelling things out in detail about what a dishonest race McCain is running. Go line by line and spell out what I'm wrong about. Don't use the political ploy of going off subject and ranting about what you don't like about the Democrats - tell me exactly what is right about the Republican allegations against Senator Obama as a person.And then go one step further and explain why his policies are bad - but don't just use the republican tactic of accusations and innuendo - give us the real facts. Put your money where your right wing mouth is.

Beth you're right, I am not very thick skinned when it comes to the way the Republicans have chosen to run their race and instead of telling the truth about what their political agenda really is, they attack, attack, attack. I do not have a quarrel with anyone exposing the truth that Senator Obama knows and has Bill Ayers as a friend. What you don't get is that the tone and manner in which the Republicans have characterized that friendship is way, way, way out of line! You don't hear the Democrats making outlandish charges about McCain's relationships with right wing extremists who have been responsible for criminal felonies committed in this country. And now McCain is trying to distance himself from George W. Bush - as if that were true. They are both from the same party and they share a whole lot of the same agenda. To behave as if he has a completely different agenda in the areas that are important to this country right now, is not correct. Do you know about McCain's actual military service? Or is what you know pretty much limited to the part about him having been a tortured POW? Have you ever questioned the real reason behind his not leaving the POW camp when he was offered the chance? Why wouldn't a good soldier want to get back into battle to try to save his fellow fliers? Do you know McCain's academic record? Do you know how many planes that he's been in that have crashed? When I hear him continuing to refer to himself as a maverick, I think of a very old Tom Cruise in Top Gun. Remember Maverick's plane crash? Remember why they called him Maverick? Do you know how he met his wife and how he divorced his other wife? The reason you don't hear Obama slandering McCain personally is because Obama is the better man with a much more honest campaign focused on the issues and what he proposes. He points out when McCain has not told the truth when he's on the podium, but he doesn't accuse McCain of hanging out with felons in an effort to make us all believe that McCain's a bad person (who would commit a felon) because he hangs with felons. And he doesn't accuse McCain of being too old (as opposed to McCain's claim that Obama is too inexperienced.) Not only does Senator Obama refuse to use age discrimination in this election, he also has not brought up the fact that McCain has had 4 episodes of cancer - a lethal form of cancer. Even though some doctors have suggested that Americans should have knowledge of the results of McCain's latest cancer test. So to answer your charge, yes I can understand why, if you've bought into the outlandish accusations that Republicans have used in this campaign, you'd like to paint me with the brush of ignorance, but I am not ignorant. I am informed. On both sides of the ticket. Btw, to set the record straight, asking the wealthiest percent of people and corporations to pay the same amount of taxes that they paid before Bush gave them huge tax breaks, is not socialistic. Paying taxes is not socialism. Fairness does not equate to socialism, no matter how loud and long the Republicans say it. What Senator Obama proposes has to do with fairness. I wish McCain would be more open and honest about what his plans are. I promise you, what he proposes has nothing to do with fairness. It has everything to do with a small percentage of the people in America and it has to do with greed. Not taxation without representation - pure and simple greed. And Ghost, your outline of what you'd like to see Obama do as president is exactly what I expect him to do and that is why I do not hesitate to vote for him. We certainly know what we'll be getting with McCain and even if Obama is unable to do everything you suggested, we'll still be better off as a country than if McCain were president.

So Beth, if you think that Senator Obama's service on a Republican appointed board in Chicago, with Bill Ayers, constitutes him hanging with terrorists (or that because Bill Ayers held a gathering at his house for young Harvard Graduate - tops of his class - to show his support for a promising public servant constitutes hanging with terrorists) then I wonder what you think of John McCain hanging with G. Gordon Liddy - a convicted felon, a Watergate burgler and a mastermind of illegal dirty tricks in the Nixon administration? McCain has spent more time and accepted more money from G. Gordon Liddy than has been disclosed. I have no doubt that Ollie North supports McCain all the way and probably is in love with Sarah Palin. Although I do not listen to anything Ollie North has to say since I was present when he was on the Phil Donahue show when he tried to unsuccessfully explain his participation in the Iran Contra affair.

Well gadget that was so civil, it makes me want to respond to you. I did work for a Democratic legislator and I did work for the Democratic Attorney General in Virginia. Several assistants to the General openly voted Republican, without fear of remonstrance from anyone. I am married to a Republican whose family is staunch Republican and who are also as Catholic as people can be. I have great respect for them and I wouldn't have married my husband or become a member of that family if I didn't love them and want to listen to them and understand their thinking on both religious and political issues. I grew up in the Methodist Church. Went to Sunday school every Sunday, went to Church Camp in the summers and taught Sunday School when I was older. Later I learned to love the doctrine of the Disciples of Christ Church and became very involved in Church activites and taught at their Church camp and sang in the Choir. When I was 18, I was swept off my feet by a Southern Baptist young man, fell in love with him and we got married after going through counseling by the pastor, attending Church twice weekly and ultimately I was baptized in the Baptist Church. We figured out pretty quickly that we were too young and should never have made such a big step when we really didn't understand what we each needed from a marriage, a spouse or even life. We divorced after 4 years. Later btw, the Catholic Tribunal conducted a study and that marriage was annulled in the Catholic Church. My father was a Democrat and he and my mother were very active in local and state politics. Both wonderful, socially conscious people, whom I adored and respected and whom I miss every day. I have studied several other faiths in depth, have read the Bible and although I am certainly no religious expert, I do have a pretty good grasp of what it's all about. I know that Jesus believed in helping the less fortunate. I know that he disliked and did not respect the wealthy who took advantage of the weak. I know that he practiced tolerance and peace and love. When my father-in-law, a life-long staunch Republican and supporter of the Pope and the Catholic Church, spoke out a couple of years ago against the policies of George W. Bush, I knew I wasn't just being a stubborn Democrat by believing the same thing. Well as further proof, even George W.'s parents don't support all of his decisions. (Yes, I did vote for Herbert Walker - in fact, I have good friends who are close to the elder Bush's.) You say you lean to the right of the Republcans. I believe that the extreme right of the Republican party has gone off the deep end. They do not seem to practice the teachings of the Lord and yet they claim to be good patriotic Christians. Well I'm not accusing you of having hate in your heart by any means, but I do believe that some of the most extreme right wing in this country would like nothing better than to assassinate a man like Senator Obama. Which is what this thread is about. I believe that Senator Obama is a man who is capable of following in the footsteps of Christ's teachings far better than John McCain or Sarah Palin. They are spouting hateful, devisive rehtoric that is detrimental to the health of our country. They support the money changers and they lie to the weak. They want to continue the war and they accuse Senator Obama of not being supportive of the troops. That is a terrible lie, among all their other lies, and although I said above that I cannot forgive them, that is not really true. If they were to recant their lies, admit the sins they have perpetrated on the American public, I could certainly forgive them. However they show no signs of ever standing up for anything good and pure. That's not my whole story, just part of it. Care to ask anymore questions?

gadget, have you ever voted Democratic? I have voted Republican, although it's really none of your business for whom I have voted or for which party affiliation I usually support. Beth what you don't seem to understand about Senator Obama's plan is that he doesn't want to punish corporations - he only wants them to pay their fair share. Under the Republicans they have enjoyed huge tax breaks and McCain wants to give them even more. That's because he says he believes that if the corporations have to pay more (even just their fair share) that it will mean fewer jobs for Americans. In the past 8 years at the very least, that has not been the way it has worked. So why should we allow McCain to continue the very thing that has brought our country to this incredibly low point in our history. Did McCain have any great plan to help fix this financial mess? When he blathered on about needing to get back to Washington so he could help solve the problem, do you think that he came up with anything to solve it? During the meeting he rushed back for, he sat through the entire meeting without saying anything. Senator Obama asked all the questions and voiced his concerns. When it was coming to an end and they asked McCain if he had any questions or input, he said he didn't. So big deal. What was all that about? I hear what you're saying about your fears about Senator Obama. They are the same fears that the Republicans have peddled in every election in recent history. This time that have really gone out on a limb and called the opposition "socialists" which has, I will admit, put the fear in a good number of people. Just like the fear mongering they've done about Obama's association with terrorists. But they don't just stop at that. They have done everything they can think of to smear Senator Obama. It has been one dirty, filthy, embarrassing campaign designed to personally assult a man who has done so many great things in his career. The other thing that infuriates me is that they not only are wrong about Obama's plans for unifying this country, they have done everything in their power to incite anger and hate and I really, really can't forgive them for that. You seem like a perfectly reasonable and intelligent person. That should tell us something about this election. It has divided this country and it is effectively turning us against each other. We can't let them do that to us. We have to learn how to work together. We can't allow the Democrats penalize anybody for making a living. And we can't allow the Republicans to continue to pad the pockets of the filthy rich in this country at the expense of middle class Americans which means, losing their jobs and winding up paying an unfair share of the taxes that are needed to run this country. Obviously I don't have the answers either. But I know that you will vote for the people you believe are the lesser of evils. I have the confidence in knowing that when I vote for Senator Obama that I will be voting for someone I actually admire and respect and feel will be able to make this country as strong as it once was.

Carrie I'm not voting for Senator Obama in spite of his views on women's rights, I agree with him that this is not a cut and dried issue. It is a very complicated issue that makes it imperative that we keep women's right to choose legal. He understands about the Consitutionality of women having the right to have control over their bodies and the unconstitutionality of other people wanting to exert their own control over women's bodies. He has been willing to be open and honest about his views on this issue and he is willing to go to bat for women's rights. He will not be deterred by someone in the back of the room shouting, baby killer! He knows that Roe v. Wade is more important than just one side of the question. I know it is offensive to some people that he wants to keep abortion legal, but this issue is something that goes to the very core of women's rights and I am very pleased that we have someone who will stand up for us.

Congratulations on getting your LB date!! Let me get this straight. Who do you blame for all of the illegal aliens in this country? And you believe that if we boycotted one day, all stopped paying our taxes, it would do exactly what to this country? Neither side listens to us because we aren't saying anything to them. We're crabbing to ourselves and our friends and all agree that pork barrel spending has to go. We agree that our laws need to be enforced at our borders. We resent the immigration laws that have been ignored. We resent the fact that our government does actually encourage (for years and years) illegals to come into this country and take advantage of the system we have set up to take care of them. We resent the fact that our public school system has gone so far astray from the basics and that nothing serious has been done to improve them in such a very long time. We resent that we and our children have such enormous student loans by the time we graduate from college there's no hope of paying them off in a reasonable length of time. Some of us have decided that we don't like the way our tax dollars are being spent in Washington. But we continue to elect the same leaders year after year. We duck our heads and pretend that voter fraud and manipulation of votes hasn't really happened and so we don't rise up and demand an accounting of why we can't have an honest election in this country. And you think the answer is to refuse to pay your taxes? And you want to elect someone who assures you that he is going to not only reward the men at the top of the heap in this country like his predecessor did, but he wants to give them even more because what? rewarding corporations has worked so well for us? You are so overtaxed now, you believe that under John McCain he's going to make it all better for you? You BELIEVE that? McCain says Senator Obama doesn't account for his proposed new plans for this country. That is an outright lie. Obama has done his homework. He already knows where he needs to cut and he isn't proposing trillions of new dollars spent on new programs. That's what McCain is planning. Just like George Bush has done to us. John McCain has not revealed a plan - he's only told us he's going to take a red pencil to go line by line and cut out the waste. Why should we trust him to do that? McCain and the Republicans preach no new taxes - or even a tax break. But that is not what they do. Read your history book. Don't take my word for it. Check out the economies of the Republican dominated White Houses and Congress. Gasoline always goes up. Jobs go away. Illegals come in by the thousands. I've lived through it. You way solves nothing. Taking a chance on a man who is intelligent, honest and has a well-defined plan to improve our country is what we should be thinking about. His very real plan to start greening up America is a mighty ambitious plan that fills us with hope for a better future. More jobs, cleaner air, less dependence on foreign oil. McCain wants to drill more oil wells - and in the Alaskan Wilderness first and foremost - so that the 600,000 or so citizens of Alaska can get rich (and by the way, they do not want to share it with the other states). He wants to go about using more coal. He says he wants alternative energy, and his mantra is the same mantra that the big oil companies advertise on TV - but they do not spell out any real plan to git 'er done. I do not trust them for one minute. They have proven who they are and where their values lie. Their values are not all about improving this country. They are all about greed and lining their pockets that are already overflowing with Americans tax dollars and our money from the gas pumps. Have you bothered to notice that McCain spends his time talking about what is wrong with Obama and hardly ever says anything definitive about what he can do to improve America. All of his plans are veiled with talk about how he's gonna look out for Joe the Plumber. Well my friend, I'm not buying that Republican rehtoric any longer. I'm taking a chance on the Democrats. This year, they are worthy.

Green, thanks! I am glad that someone understands my point.

Hey Beth I like your style too! Your logic on the other hand, not so much. You're the one who is saying that both sides are bad. I think that there are bad people on both sides, just like there are bad government policies. But just because there are some bad government policies does not make all government policies bad. I would not ever say that there aren't bad people who took advantage of the lending institutions' tricky loans, but I am also not blaming JUST the homeowners in this collapse of the housing market, as some people are. All too often the Republicans have used the same logic you seem to be using to get them out of taking responsibility for the things that they actually did do that has hurt middle America. They also like to use the old welfare argument to make people think that paying taxes is wrong. In fact, Joe the Plumber has bought into that rehtoric to such an extent, that he has refused to pay his taxes. There's a whole movement out there of people who think it is righteous to not pay their taxes. But poor Joe doesn't seem to get it that he wouldn't have a country like this if people didn't pay to get things done. He wouldn't have a public library, the military to shock and awe Iraq, the police to take care of killers and robbers and law breakers of all kinds, he wouldn't be able to depend on the fire department to save his home if it caught on fire. The welfare you talk about (which we all hate) is a very, very small portion of the tax burden. And besides, there are things in place to keep people from just living on welfare all their lives - or have you done your homework? Yes I know there is corruption in the welfare system and that there are welfare cheats milking the system. But that doesn't account for the majority of people who get assistance when they are in dire straits. I don't like the idea of paying for people to sit home and watch Jerry Springer on their widescreen TVs either. So I'm making my voice heard through letters to my Congressmen (and woman). Are you doing that? Because they actually do pay attention to what they hear from their constituents. They may not listen as closely to them as they do to the lobbyists, but trust me, they know that our votes control their job. Most of us have just been too lazy, sitting around not doing anything, or just bellyaching about what we think is wrong with the government. I hope that this race has energized and informed people to such an extent that from now on we will all stop feeling like such victims of our government and politicians and start all being activists for a better America!