BJean

What is disturbing is that it came up at all. And I am certainly not the one who brought it up. You didn't bring it up because you thought that if Senator Obama has some Arab blood it is just an interesting little tidbit, like he grew up with his grandparents, or his mother died young. You brought it up because it allowed you to claim that he is an Arab. Under the circumstances of our Middle East involvement, you know, just like that little bushy haired lady at the McCain rally, that it is a scary thought that an actual Arab might be running for president here in America. I don't buy your claim that you brought it up because it had to do with how mistaken people are for calling him an African American. In fact I hope you didn't really expect anyone to believe that hogwash. Truth is, it was done for the same reason they brought up the robust exaggeration of Senator Obama's relationship with a man who is a Palestinian sympathizer. They've brought that up because they are sure that people who support Israel in this country would find that distasteful. But it backfired. Just like so many of the dirty tricks that Republicans have pulled this time. Turns out that McCain's been involved with the same man - and was even involved with William Ayres in making a $400,000 contribution to that scary man's Palestinian research. Makes you wonder if McCain doesn't have some Arab blood coursing through his veins. As I've said before, I don't know who in McCain's camp is responsible for all the misinformation and lies, but it's almost like they are working for the other party - because most of it has turned out to be blatant lies or things that McCain himself has done. And I believe that it has mostly hurt McCain's chances. At least with people who are not extremists, and who seriously want the kinds of change that Senator Obama represents.

Ok Susan. I for one, get the message.

Beth you keep saying you don't like either one but you only denigrate Seantor Obama. I don't recall your railing on about Senator McCain. I'm sure you said something early on in an effort to convince someone that you are a true middle of the roader, what did you say, Libertarian? Hardly middle of the road. gadget you speak ridiculousness. I didn't change the subject. I expanded on your chosen topic. What's the matter, can't come up with the ethnic backgrounds of anyone else running for office? I'm just sayin's all. april I think you may have hit the proverbial nail on the head in your use of the word, poser. I think I could abide some of the extremism I've encountered here if people would just admit why they say the things they say - why they toss out words like socialism, genetic background, Arab, socialism, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. And they want us to think that it has nothing to do with race when they both bring that into the discussion. Who they, bigoted? Of course the color of a person's skin has nothing to do with anything..... yeah, right. Jack, I've been the lone ranger here for at least a couple of days. I didn't accuse anyone of attacking me for just stating their political views. But guys, I didn't mean to kill the buzz. It was getting very humorous and I am glad!!! It's gotten way too intense and although it allowed for some spleen venting, and some really nutty links, it was getting way too repetitive. How many ways can you explain what socialism really means? I have a feeling that if Webster came up out of his grave and defined socialism for the Republicans, they STILL wouldn't stop misusing it.

The race train, eh. This just keeps getting better and better.

No doubt about it froggi. We can all hope though that the election is won by a wide margin, whoever wins it, so that the elected person will have a clear mandate about what Amerians think is the right path for this nation.

Written by a black man.... now isn't that just a magnificent observation. It's one man's opinion and I'm sure you agree that it is a perfect definition of the character of Senator Obama if you're a desperate Republican.

aa: sorry I misinterpreted your post. I'm so used to everybody attacking me, I find myself always on the defense. Except for green - she's very good at not attacking people. And her definition of socialism is exactly what I was taught in school. It is for that reason that the constant use of the word by Republicans is so irritating. You can't bastardize a word like socialism and expect people to agree with your use of it. Carry on aa, you're doing much better than I did when exchanging viewpoints with Beth.

aa: What's a poser? Your explanation is kinda weird. You're monitoring people's posts? Oh my what's that about? Not that you asked, but just so's you'll know... I have had my band for 2 years. For over 2 years I have read and posted about the good and bad, the problems and successes of trying to get and having a Lap Band. Personally I have reached a point where my band and I are one with the universe. Umkay? Here's my post to you regarding the Lap Band: Congratulations on your 21 lb. weight loss! Keep up the good work! Feel all better now?

Have you researched Senator McCain's ethnic background? What about Sarah Palin's and Joe Biden's? I'm sure if you've researched theirs, it will take you no time to come up with the sources and links.

Beth it is nice to see you admit that you do see things in this political thread as black and white. I thought it was obvious and it's good that you came out with it. I don't hate her because she's beautiful. :cool2: As I said before, I don't hate her at all. I am incredulous every time she opens her mouth. And as a woman, I think she's set us back about 50 years. Ok gadget now I get it. Your source is quite revealing! I hope everyone reading it understands the magnitude and gravity of what you have posted. And by the way, does that mean that you call Senator Obama an African-Arab-American? Or is it Arab-African-American? For your purposes, I'm pretty sure you'll be happy to just keep it at Arab, pure and simple Is this enlightenment as to Senator Obama's ethnic mix revealed so that it falls into the kind of segregation lines that were accepted as legal in the south (and probably still in a couple of places) that any person with a drop of African blood in him/her makes them a Negro according to law? So as you have explained it by your post, anyone with a drop of Arab blood makes him/her an Arab. I see. And I also see the need to dissect the derivitive of his/her name to underscore the claim. Makes perfect sense. Hmmm. For what purpose did the white folks make laws like that? And what is the purpose of someone pointing out that because Senator Obama's Kenya, South African, father is a decendant from someone who was Arab, that Senator Obama is Arab? What is the reasoning behind you or anyone calling Senator Obama an Arab? Good grief, I thought you'd be thrilled enough just to be able to call him black, African-American, or fill in the blank. We sure appreciate you calling our attention to this worthwhile research. Makes me want to read everything you post because I am sure you only post valid and fair links and quotes. Deep thoughts. Gotta love 'em.

As we've said before Beth, dirty campaign politics is in the eye of the beholder. I've never heard any of the rehtoric that you've posted above. And I've been involved in politics all my life. I believe that you are interpretating certain statements to mean what you've posted. Like the Bush one about the draft. Which brings up a good point. Bush interestingly enough, did not reinstate the draft although it seemed like he might have to. Instead he turned our National Guard into regular military and he changed the rule of no back to back combat tours of duty, to making them fight in Iraq as long as he decides they are needed to keep his and McCain's and Cheney's sham of a war going. And Republican supporters say that the military knew what they were getting into when they signed up, so it's fine and dandy. You talk about sad. That is not only sad, it is unfair and has put our position of having a good defense in jeopardy. And btw Beth I will believe that Senator Obama is an Arab when there is valid proof. I don't care in what form it is presented. But it has to be valid proof.

KyBC: You make a very good point about the absurdity of basing ones vote on a candidate's ethnic background. On the other hand, there is this claim by some of the people posting on this and other threads that Senator Obama is an Arab. I am challenging that claim because I have seen no proof of it and no one with any credibility proving in any way that it is true. Even John McCain when he had to address the claim up close and personal in front of the cameras said that Senator Obama is not an Arab. Senator Obama claims that he is an American - and that he is an American with both white and black parents, which if it ever counted for anything and it doesn't in my books, would point to some people correctly referring to him as African-American. Which is part of this silly discussion. You are absolute correct when you say that this is a desperate ploy to plant fear in the hearts of Americans.

Still waiting for proof of your statement that Senator Obama is Arab.

Excellent point Ghost! Thanks for the wake up call. You're absolutely right. What I asked, gadget, is where you got that Arab information. Senator Obama's father is from South Africa. Whether or not he was a slave decendant has nothing to do with whether Obama should be considered an African American. People who do not have South African roots, but who are black Americans are often called African Americans. It has to do with the color of their skin and the fact that they are American citizens. No one knows where someone, like Oprah or Tiger Woods for example, have genetic roots unless they reveal it or an outsider does some kind of in-depth geneology research on them. So I'm very interested in your source of the Arab information. It has nothing to do with whether I want to believe it or not. I honestly don't think that African American is a good term to use for Americans who have been born in the USA or even those who are naturalized American citizens. I don't like the terms like Latinos or Ricans or any of the other things that tend to keep us separate when what we are is American. I have some pretty deep American Indian roots which I am very proud of, but I certainly don't believe that people should call me something that sets me apart from you or any other American citizen.

You're very good at what you do. Instead of truly answering anything with real responses, you just blah, blah, blah the same gibberish that just doesn't make a bit of sense. Your tossing around the term socialism and accusing America as being a socialist country is a load of you-know-what. Furthermore if there are no checks and balances, the capitalist system will run amok, just as it has here in the past 8 years. The fear of this happening was always there - and now it has been proven - we now know exactly what happens when greed takes over. How can you not pay attention to what has come about and how can you keep ranting about any controls over huge corporations as being socialistic, or that having them pay a reasonable amount of taxes is socialism? You think you defined socialism, but you did not define this country or what it takes for this country to be the strongest nation in the world. Do you or Joe feel any responsibility for helping to pay for streets, schools, military, police, or any other of the services that make this country great? Obviously not. You think this is a socialist country because we have to pay taxes. You think that because we have governmentally controlled programs to provide the basic things that people need to live in a country like ours, it is a socialist country. You do not have a clue what socialism or capitalism is. You have a loose definition of those terms that you've applied in inappropriate ways. Move to Alaska. They want to be their own country and they do not want to pay taxes and they want to force the oil companies to pay individual citizens part of their profits. I'm not sure what you'd call that kind of life, probably some kind of rogue communism, but you can seat your first dictator, Ms. Sarah Palin, right away. She's perfect for that job.

Did you make up that phrase "intolerant and hate-filled as Islamofascist terrorists"? Sounds like something you heard from your Republican heros. Those are just the kind of angry words that we're going to have to put aside after this election. Beth, we have to live together on this planet, in this country, in our states, in our towns and in our neighborhoods. I understand that politics can bring out the worst in people. I understand that people are passionate about their political beliefs and biases. We're all a product of our upbringing. And we're also in this election process a product of those spin masters and rehtoric spewing people that we hear every night and every day on our radios and TVs. But we're all Americans and we all want a strong country. We've got to get past this crap. People can't continue to call good and patriotic Americans, socialists or terrorists without it eventually causing some kind of eruption. The Republicans have not been honest in that name-calling B.S. and this attitude that prevails, this attitude of bigotry and resentment, is just plain wrong. In fact, I've read some things on these couple of political threads that are as backward and ignorant as anything I've read in years. Honest to God Beth, you write well, you spell well but the venom that you spout off is totally unexpected from someone who otherwise seems intelligent. I understand that you believe all the terrible lies that your party has put forth. And evidentally you believe that little old bushy haired lady who called Senator Obama an Arab. Or was that gadget? I get you two mixed up because you sound so much alike. Senator Obama is not an Arab. He is an American. He is proud to be an American. He loves this country with all his heart and he has said how lucky he is to be an American. He wants this country to heal the wounds of racial bias in this country. Don't you? If not, why not? Senator Obama has no plans for bigger government. (I feel like I'm speaking to Joe the Plumber.) He has no plans to increase your taxes. Unless you make mighty good chunk of change. And even then, he only wants you to pay a fair share of the tax burden - no more or less than during the Reagan years. Why are you so opposed to a roll back of the tax breaks that the wealthy have enjoyed for so long? McCain wants you to think that the way it works is this: give the wealthy tax breaks, allow corporations to make obscene sums of money while we pay at the gas pumps, and allow the wall street hoods all the leeway in the world to do whatever they want. And if you do that, it will create jobs and those huge sums of money the people at the top make will eventually trickle down to the middle class. Then we'll all be rich. That's what he's been selling. What part of Bush's policies are different from that? No part. And after 8 years of the exact things that McCain is proposing, our country is on the brink of financial disaster. The unemployment rate is creeping further and further up every day. Middle Americans are not benefitting from Exxon Mobile or other huge corporations making unbelievable profits in this past quarter. We just are not. That kind of financial plan for America does not work for anyone but the wealthy. It is unfair. It breaks the back of people like Joe the Plumber, but Joe is too damn dumb to get it. All he hears is Bush and McCain saying that Democrats want to "spread the wealth" and they interpret that for Joe by saying they want to take your hard-earned money and give it to welfare cheats. It is pathetically absurd. And incredibly stupid. Who the hell are you to promote the kind of fringe (to use one of your words) lunacy we've seen in this campaign?

Oh for heaven's sakes. Read your history books. (In reference to my comments about the deaths of the people who promoted peace and who tried to make America's government represent all the people, not just the wealthiest or most right wing.) As for hate... please enlighten me. Tell me exactly what Senator Obama has said that in any way compares to the insinuations and crack pot questions that mostly Palin has spewed from the podium. Not that McCain hasn't done it, he has too, although not quite as ugly and not quite as often. Now you're not allowed to use misstatements or misquotes or things that stretch the imagination because they're taken out of context that you've heard Rush Limbaugh, Anne Coulter or anyone on Fox News say. It's gotta be the verifiabe. Tell me one thing that Senator Obama has said that incites the kind of hatred that your candidates have provoked. In fact, the kind of hatred that you obviously feel toward Senator Obama. I don't know about California. I don't live there although my kids do and have not said one word about the kind of unhealthy scenes you're talking about. Bless your hearts, in Texas most people wouldn't dare admit that they are for Senator Obama. Because here, we're the ones who are in the minority. When I do happen upon someone who lets it slip that they're voting for Senator Obama, we do the terrorist fist knock. :rolleyes2:

Aw, take your time. I know it's hard to get those Majik 8 Balls to come up with the answers you're looking for. Why am I not surprised that is your source of information? Hmmmmm.:rolleyes2:

No gadget, you and Beth are defining his background - and quite far afield from the truth. Please tell us all exactly where his parents are from and what race they were, where they grew up, where Senator Obama grew up, and all that if you two know so much about his ethic background. Tap, tap, tap, hands on hips, smiling, I'm waiting.......

Very funny gadget!! You crack me up. :rolleyes2:

Beth you've really gone off the deep end. Do you really think that Senator Obama doesn't say the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America? Where do you get this stuff? I will admit that Palin is an open book all right. She's about as deep as a single flapjack swimming in a pool of real maple syrup. And, you are correct, that is exactly one of the reasons we don't like her. Actually it isn't that we don't like her. It's that we have no respect for her as a Vice Presidential candidate, second in line to the presidency possibly, after a man who's 72 years old, had cancer and other health problems. The only reason you don't understand Senator Obama is because you don't care to. You've either not done your homework or you've bought the right wing media rehtoric hook, line and sinker. Those of us who support him know exactly where he stands on issues. He's the only person in this race who has been completely open and up front about his planned policies. That's one of the main reasons he's ahead in the polls. We're sick and tired of the bull$%@! that McCain and Palin are slinging, and we know that if they had a really good leg to stand on with the issues, they'd be talking about them instead of trying to get people to hate Obama. Cause you know, that's their only chance. There's no way that they can get enough votes to win on the issues - not with the informed majority of the American people. And it looks like we've come full circle. There's really no sense in going over all this again. It's not like anything has changed in anybody's mind here. Except maybe for gadget, who fancies herself an expert on African-American people. It does make us scratch our heads when you say stuff like that gadget. First of all, I don't believe that Senator Obama is the person who has put that label on him. And two, he knows who he is - and in much more depth than you. I can't imagine why you think you have the right to define his ethnic background for him. Anyone who's been paying attention knows hes an Arab with terrorist proclivities, right? :rolleyes2:

Ahhh I had a feeling someone would bring that up. Shoulda known it would be you, oh logical one. Of course he doesn't read them all line by line. That's why the taxpayers agree to paying salaries for aides for Congressmen. The aides do a list of the points of each bill and bring them to the attention of Senator Obama. If there is a piece of legislation wherein part of it goes against his philosophy in some way, he reads it and decides what he needs to do. And we know that he is aware of what's in those bills because he discusses his reasons for voting the way he voted both when he is interviewed and on his website. I don't know why all the Congressional staffers aren't able to inform their bosses on all of the bills. And of course quite a few do. Another factor is that it is politics, pure and simple, influenced by lobbyists from all angles. But there are a whole lot of lazy people who "serve" in Congress and there's really no excuse for it. I do not consider Senator Obama to be a lazy or uninformed person. I do not consider Senator McCain an uninformed person either. His philosophy as it relates to legislation is often defined by his hawk-like stance on war and his big tax break theory on greedy corporations. Makes it easy for a person like me to get where he's coming from. I don't just listen to what he has said during this campaign. I know what he's done for real. With Senator Obama, I needed to dig deeper to get the whole picture. Something that obviously many people are not interested in bothering with. If they had, they wouldn't take the McCain/Palin speeches for the gospel truth.

What it tells us is that he has actually read the proposed legislation and that he has mixed feelings about it. He doesn't want to endorse the entire bill by absolutely voting for it because he disagrees with certain aspects of it and he won't stand in the way of it because of the good parts that he agrees with. Furthermore, he knows that it is necessary to participate in this way instead of voting no, if they are to ever get anything accomplished in such a bipartisan Congress. I prefer his approach as opposed to those of so many of those fools that are just plain absent because they don't want to go on the record and have to answer questions or defend their vote, either yes or no, for a piece of legislation that they often haven't even read. True dat, yo.

You're right about hate and politics. But the if a good man points us in the right direction, and things begin to improve, it can go a long way in diffusing political hate. And I gotta tell you that I for one, do not hate McCain. I abhor this campaign he's run but I understand it and hope it doesn't work in his favor. But I don't hate McCain. Regarding Palin, I can't say that I hate her either. But I do not respect her political philosophy and her extremist views. And I gotta tell you that if she does run for national office again, I will actively oppose her. More actively than I have supported Senator Obama. And if McCain and Palin lose, I will totally shut up about her -- unless and until she runs for national office.

I still think it is a good thought! I guess you know what you're talking about when it comes to rural v. urban voters. I have heard twice today that at least 2 nationwide polls only have McCain at about 35%. But I know that polls are not reliable. And you make a good point that these polls don't take into account who all these new voters are going to support. That should be a very important factor and probably will make this race far closer than anyone predicts. I do think it is going to take some time for this country to heal from all the negative emotions this election has stirred up. I sure hope that whoever is elected will be able to take the kind of action and say the kinds of things that will help everyone get united to create a better, stronger America. That is what really counts in this thing.