BJean

And another thing patty, I am very offended by your rant about Obama. You are patently wrong about many things that you accused him of: like wanting to kill children, for God's sakes! He's never, ever declared that he wants women to get abortions or to kill a baby that is born alive during an abortion. That is a crock of right wing rehtoric that is absolutely untrue. You need to separate campaign lies from the facts. You say that God mandates that marriage is between a man and a woman. But the fact is, according to the Constitution, there should be no discrimination with regard to race, creed, color, sex, etc. But disallowing homosexuals to enter into marriage contracts is discriminating against them and not affording them the same rights under the law that heterosexuals enjoy. Furthermore, separation of church and state is an important component of our government. Religious beliefs should not dictate our laws. Because we know that your religion and everyone else's religion are probably not the same. What if we allowed the other person's religion, lets' say the Muslim religion, govern the laws of our country? Would you feel that it discriiminated against you? There are plenty of Muslim and other religions represented in this country by people who are just as American as you are. Obama does not want to take away your right to bear arms. Yes, I believe he does favor some kinds of gun control - perhaps fully automatic assault weapons. Why do you feel you should be allowed to stockpile arms and ammunition? So that you can defend yourself if the government goes rogue on you? You expecting a civil war of some kind? Trust me, if they want to storm trooper your neighborhood, you won't be able to stop them with your puny stockpile of weapons vs. their mighty defense arsenal. But with some regulations on weaponry in the U.S. people like me can feel fairly confident that if someone decides to go shoot a bunch of women who are standing outside Planned Parenthood, it will take them a while to do it and maybe we'll catch them before they climb down out of the tree. As for health insurance. You do understand that with the system as it now is, you're paying for lots and lots of people's health care, right? Since so many people do not have insurance or access to regular health care, when they have health issues they head for the hospital. Well who do you think pays for that hospital visit? The administration at the hospital? The nurses? The doctors? Nope. You do. What Obama wants is for everyone to have access to health care without YOU having to pay for it through higher insurance premiums. Health insurance is so expensive because of this (among other things) many people cannot afford it. He wants you to be able to have the exact health insurance you have right now if that is what you want. Can you choose your doctors through your insurance plan? Well he wants Americans to be able to choose their doctors. You right wingers have decided that what Obama wants for this nation is socialized medicine, as it is in Canada and England. You're wrong about that. Again, that was a campaign tactic that was tossed out there to scare you. Obama is all about free enterprize and in fact has plans to encourage it. What we've had under the Republicans is a complete focus on the upper echelon in this country. That has not produced more jobs for us, it has created jobs for places like India. He wants to reward corporations that create jobs in the U.S. He wants all corporations to pay their fair share instead of the nearly free ride they've had for the past 8 years. He doesn't expect the wealthy to go broke - he only expects that they do their part to make America strong. He wants America to benefit from their doing business here - instead of Americans being beaten down by having to pay such high taxes and by losing their jobs or having their salaries cut so that the greedy corporate bigwigs can make millions and millions more dollars each year. How you can call that abolishing free enterprise is a real stumper! Obama knows as do the people who voted for him, that he's no Messiah. He is just one man and he has proposals that he thinks can help Americans and that will make America a better and stronger nation. He can't do it alone. He can't part the Red Sea. No one expects him to. We are glad that he wants us to be a part of getting this country on some kind of sane course into the future. You do not sound like you have any idea what Obama really stands for. You sound like you've bought into the campaign lies and misrepresentations. No wonder you have misgivings about the outcome of this election. I hope that in a year, maybe 2, you'll look back on this and wonder how in the world you could have ever thought that Obama's goals are not what God would want for this country.

pattygreen: two wrongs don't make a right is absolutely correct. A young child was forceably raped. Forcing her body to endure a pregnancy and raise a child at age 14 is the second wrong she would have had to endure. I do not believe for one minute that Jesus would condone forcing that double wrong upon one of his children. I believe that Jesus feels nothing but compassion for her and loves her and comforted her through her very horrific double trauma. Just because you believe that adoption is an option, does not make it right for everyone. It would never be a choice for me. Absolutely never. Adoption can often be good. But it is not always good and if I chose to bring a child into the world, I could never give it away and expect someone else to take on my responsibility. And just because you believe that abortion is wrong and you feel compelled to chastise someone who posts here doesn't make you right in doing so. It does absolutely clearly define what kind of person you are. You believe that the rights of this young lady are for you to define. You want to make that choice for her and if she doesn't choose what you believe is right, then you feel it is your place to publically correct her. I believe that you are pretty heartless to say what you said. But I am sure that she can handle it. She seems to be very happy with her child and her choice. And I know, for sure, that she is wise and strong. And I congratulate her for finding true happiness in spite of having been through such an horrible event at such a young age.

plain, I'm surprised that you can't understand people's pain over the past 8 years. The confusing part for me is how many people were actually exhilarated by the Bush policies.

As many pregnancies as there are, there are that many different stories. Your story is heart wrenching. I am very sorry that you had to go through that terrible ordeal. But I am thankful that you had the ability to choose what was right for you. It would have been horrible if you had been unable to make a choice for yourself. It would have been horrible if you had been forced to bear a child without your consent. I am sorry you had to go through the hurt outside the clinic. It was pain heaped on pain. Extremely traumatic for anyone much less a girl of 14.

9/11 has made too many Americans accept some of the activities of this administration as being necessary to fight the evil doers. We have fought evil doers throughout history without taking away our own freedoms that our founders fought for. We are supposed to be better than the evil doers. Not just like them. We have justified too much that is wrong for America, all in the name of fighting the terrorists - or supposedly fighting for American freedom. It is no different than what we were told and asked to do during the Vietnam war. Mostly the things we were told by our government were not true. We did not help Vietnam. We helped some of the people who wanted to come to America. But killing their families and bombing the hell out of their country did not make it a free country. Our war in Iraq is not about making those people free. It is about economics. And we will never bring our kind of government to the Middle East. We do not understand the Middle East. They have had conflicts throughout their history. Their conflicts are complicated and far, far older than America. The racial discrimination that has been so prevelant in this country is no better than the discrimination in other countries that we claim to want to help. The ethnic cleansing we've seen in other countries, like Bosnia or the religious conflicts we've seen in places like Ireland or the tribal conflicts in South Africa are horrible. The racial discrmination in this country has been horrible. There will always be terrorists. There will always be assassins and people who blow up buildings and people who put poison powder in our mailboxes. But we should not accept an administration that takes away our freedom, our basic rights, in order to track down the guilty. We have rules that protect our basic rights - those rules should be the standards we all live by. Our president and his administration should never be above the law. It threatens our very democracy. And the Bush admistration has been a elitist goverment with the wealthiest people enjoying the most benefits. We've finally had enough of it and we finally have found a man who promises to run this country in a way that should make us a stronger nation and a place where people will realize that we really all are created equal. The election of Senator Obama is a fine representation of the fact that race is not a factor for the majority of the people in this country. But people of color are not the only ones who will benefit from this election - we will ALL be better people for it. He will hold us to a higher standard and he will be a role model for everyone of us.

A lot of Americans understand the difference between being PRO-ABORTION and being PRO WOMEN'S RIGHTS. I do not believe for one minute that those people who voted down the referendums in South Dakota and Colorado were voting for abortion. Two more beautiful reasons for tears of joy today!

I just heard on the evening news that President Bush has invited the Obamas to come visit the White House as soon as they wish. That was pretty quick compared to some of the past presidents. Wow. Even that made me tear up. Powerful stuff! :smile2:

High five - watcher!

MissyGordon- thank you very much for your post. Really, really cool!

TheGhost- I have something to say to you. I got goose bumps when I read your post. I am so proud of you! Those were thoughtful, generous and obviously heartfelt words and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. It's thrilling to think that the majority of Americans understand what this election means and realize that we really can work together to take our country forward . There is no doubt in my mind that we will be a better people for making this choice. I know that we will always have people who are ignorant and filled with fear and hate. People who refuse to compromise and people who take the law into their own hands. That is prevelant in societies all over the world and we are not immune. But I believe that we took a giant leap toward learning to live in peace and tolerance yesterday and I am so very proud of us.

Obama wins. Amazing. Truly amazing! America is vindicated in my eyes. They really did it. What a blessed relief! What an incredibly amazing time to be an American. I've waited all my life for someone to unify Americans for the greater good. We all have to do our part to make it happen. McCain started the ball rolling with his conciliatory speech tonight. Wow. The whole night has been amazing!!

I feel like I've waited my whole life to hear the speech that Obama gave tonight. I have renewed hope for our country and I am so proud to be an American!!! What an incredible and momentous event - absolutely the most exciting political event in my life. The promise of a better future for our children and a stronger and more unified America with this new President and Congress is thrilling. I was worried that McCain might let us down with his speech, but it was a really good unifying speech and I appreciated it very much. He did a great job.

Amen tbines!

You know if this thing goes that way - the way of fighting in the streets like we had in the 60s - I will hold John McCain personally responsible for conducting such a sleezy and rage inciting campaign.

Don't worry lilith, watcher, froggi and others... I voted very early for Senator Obama. Yes we can!!!

It's been interesting to me today. I've driven by several polling places and there are no lines, virtually no activity to be seen from the street. I'm not sure if that means that the Republicans are taking for granted that Texas is a done deal, or if it means that the Democrats are giving up and not voting because they think Texas is going Republican no matter what. Either way, it's a little unnerving. Maybe they're all just waiting until they get off work. Going to be interesting to see how my county voted. In my 'hood, nearly all you see are McCain signs in yards. It's kept me from putting an Obama sign in my yard. I wouldn't want the discrimination that would come my way because of a sign. That rather makes me a big chicken, doesn't it. :thumbup:

luluc if they can figure out who started a fire in California from a little pile of ashes, they should be able to figure out who erected a KKK sign in Dallas. I'm in Texas and that's a little too close to home for me. I'm white and I feel threatened by that. Like I posted last night about the intimidation and assaults on people in North Carolina, this is the kind of stuff we may be faced with today in America while we're trying to have a fair and honest election. We can't have a fair and honest election - the right wing terrorists in our own country just won't allow it. I should have said ignorant right wing terrorists. It's little more accurate. In several key states, there have already been people whose records have been messed with so that they are required to use a provisional ballot to vote. Provisional ballots won't be counted for days. This looks like it's going to not only be a long night, it might be a very long couple of weeks. I really hope that's not the case. As for the KKK, we need to bring back the stocks and put them in the middle of town so we can identify which people in our communities are irrational, idiotic wack jobs. After leaving them in the stocks for a few days, then we need to put them in jail and not allow them to make a living, bar their children from our schools, and let their wives scrub our floors for about 10 years. All that just so they can learn a few things from personal experience. Aw Beth, don't freak out, it's a joke.

Rush Limbaugh should be hung out to dry.

Babyg I am shocked that a babygirl like you would pull that crap. Shame, shame, shame. Next thing we know you'll be tellin' us you use the eff word. What's this world coming to? Seriously I am sorry that you have such misgivings about Senator Obama. I have moments when I come to the realization that he could be pulling the wool over our eyes, but then I have been around so long I think I am a pretty good judge of character. I trust my instincts. I feel certain that the man has a good heart and a real passion for making this country better. God Bless America! The day has finally arrived. Thank the good Lord for that. It will soon be over and we the people can finally move toward unity and peace.

Did the Redskins win?

Did you all read about the time McCain called Cindy the "C" word in front of some of the press corps? Yep. It's been verified by several reporters who were present at the time. And when asked directly about the incident by some press members afterwards, he didn't deny it and just left the area. Then later when pressed on it again, he said everybody gets mad sometimes. As I understand it what happened was: Cindy was smoothing McCain's hair down on top and said, John looks like you're getting a little thin on top. He said well at least I don't wear a ton of makeup like a trollop, you C**t. I don't blame you for denying he's your favorite candidate, gadget. But if our current Democratic presidential candidate doesn't know how to properly flip someone the bird, I'm a monkey's uncle. How did gadget get to be such an expert on the fine art of bird flipping? After seeing the video, I had to ask someone about the accusation that Senator Obama is giving some people the finger when it looked to me like he inadvertently scratches his cheek. She said that you can give the finger surrepticiously by putting that particular finger up like you're clearing your eye of debris. But she'd never heard of the the bird flipping cheek maneuver. Last night I was watching Senator Obama's speech after he'd been introduced by Bruce Springsteen. You know, the same Bruce Springsteen that wrote and sang, Born In The USA! Anyway right as he began his talk, Senator Obama did scratch his nose - several times in succession - almost like he had something there bothering him. But now that I'm in on the campaign hand signal language, I'm sure he must have been telling Mr. Springsteen that his music stank. Am I right about this people? Ya'll shouldn't really let something like this get under your skin. We all know how typical it is of the Nixonian legacy - win at any cost, the dirtier campaign, the better. Winning on the issues is impossible, so sling everything you can and eventually something will stick. A more serious concern is what they were talking about tonight on CNN. At a polling place in North Carolina, a group of rednecks showed up in a group and verbally attacked and threatened the people standing in line to cast their votes. The voters were Democrats. Thirty of those waiting voter's car tires were slashed. If this is what we can expect from the radical extreme right wing mavericks tomorrow, we better do all we can to spend some time at the polling places helping to protect innocent voters. Looks like the 911 emergency hot line is going to have a busy day.

Wholly frioles watcher. I've been relying on the common-taters for all my polling info. Your info is very easy to interpret. No guesswork involved in trying to add it all up into something we can trust. But I'll still believe it when I see it. I've been hoodwinked by the polls too many times in the past. Beth I obviously got you confused with some other right winger who claimed to be a Libertarian. Sorry, my bad. You're wrong about me only listening to rants about McCain. Would that it were true. :thumbup:

losing: I feel the same way! I can imagine someone who has political aspirations having Senator Obama as a hero.

aricus, you shouldn't be surprised that people find Senator Obama to be their hero. Millions of people believe that he has accomplished amazing things in his lifetime. And there's really no accounting for who people make their hero - take Joe Plumber for example - McCain's made him out to be some kind of hero in this campaign. And look at his Vice Presidential candidate, the hero worship of her has been a real head-scratcher to some of us. Watcher: The polls you're looking at aren't the only polls going on. Some of them indicate a far tighter race. I am hoping for an Obama landslide, but there are many components that are in play that can turn this race inside out. We need to brace for that. We need to be prepared to have a long wait and a long struggle for the truth if the Republicans pull the voting fraud that they have gotten away with in the past. My guess is they will have thought up something entirely new to wreak havoc on election day and subsequently steal the race On the other hand if the the way they have conducted this campaign is an indication of their scatterbrained organizational skills, counting your eggs or your chickens might not be such a stretch.

You're absolutely right gadget. I do not know your inner thoughts. I only know what you post. Your words have a very strong theme (admittedly as do mine). Sometimes I think you are surprised at how transparent your words seem to others. And it's often been noted that the written word can be misinterpreted. Like has been said before by so many people, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. Or as we've heard in this race so often (by both candidates), you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.