BJean

I'm no expert on faithfulness or a lack thereof. Green sure has me beat on that one. But I have been married to a wholly dishonest man. One whom I have no idea if he cheated on me with another woman or not. As dishonest and uncommunicative as he was, I wouldn't doubt that he did for one minute. I kicked him to the curb as quickly as I could and didn't wait to find out how bad it was. I can't say I have never regretted it. We had a beautiful baby boy and I always regretted that he didn't have his biological father in his life on a daily basis. That being said, I am remarried to a wonderful man with the highest morals whom I love with all my heart. He adopted my son and has been a fantastic father to him and my son knows who his "real" father is - his adoptive one. But I've often wondered if I had been mature enough and smart enough and had more experience in relationships, could I have made my first marriage work for all three of us? Maybe not, but I know I was awfully quick to give up on us. I was young, unhappy and the guy wouldn't talk to me. So I fled and left him bleeding on the curb. Ebony have you thought about putting as much energy into finding out why he does what he does online as you have spent checking up on him? If it were me I wouldn't - couldn't - be happy with a situation like that as an ongoing thing. I would have to discuss it, find some answers and get some help. And that is my mature, experienced self talking. If I didn't like the answers and couldn't find the kind of help we needed, THEN I'd probably kick him to the curb. But if answers were available to us, and he was able to work with me in finding a solution to our problems, I would feel gratified and happy and might have set us on a path to happiness, pride and fulfillment.

Good post Kat - as usual!

So abortion rears its' ugly head even here? Interesting. Some women who become pregnant without their consent might equate their situation to the one where an intruder entered your home and threatened your existence.

plain: I've been out of the loop for a few days. Your comment that the pimps would be the ones who are in charge of prostitution after it becomes legal is pretty silly. Unless of course you consider that the people who run things in Nevada are just pimps and the people who run things in Amsterdam are pimps just waiting to get hold of a john and rob him while in the meantime he's thinking of fun ways to beat up and cheat his prostitute. I can't get over how some of you equate a prostitute to a waitress or a secretary. And some of you even compare a prostitute to a wife. What planet are you living on - what hole do you live in? What a skewed sense of morality. Our entire capitalist society is based on people providing goods and services for money. Are you trying to say that in this country if you provide a service for money, you're nothing more than prostitute? I'm going to pass that little bit of wisdom along to my lawn mowing guy. Btw, the general consensus is that rape is not so much about sex as it is about power.

Too much emphasis is put on the "unforgivable" act of cheating. The act itself is generally just a biological force of nature. Not too surprising that so many people fall victim to it. The part that can be unforgivable is not the sex act itself, it is the break down in communication or lack of respect or indifference by the cheater to the spouse being cheated on. The real crime in marriages is the speed with which people kick each other to the curb over one person needing the sex or the appreciation or the understanding they get from someone of the opposite sex, outside the marriage. If people expect marriage to work, they've got to communicate and find out why the person who has committed the indiscretion actually did it. If the cheater is just a complete ass, that's one thing. If they are good people, but just have some problem going on that can be fixed, that's different. Forgiveness, understanding and communication can feed a marriage and make it healthier. It can forge a love bond that is far, far better than the hate that kicking someone to the curb causes you to experience. And for God's sake people, you owe it to your children to try to figure it out and fix it. Granted all marriages aren't made in heaven, but we owe it to our children to make it work and be a two-parent family, if it is at all possible. We don't give up on our kids (mostly) and we shouldn't give up on our mates.

Steve isn't prostitution already a problem for all of us in this country? We pay many tax dollars to enforce the laws. As one person said, there are gang related areas of towns where prostitution is commonplace. (In Sterling, Virginia??? Man, it used to be a quiet little burg when I lived near there.) Our only chance to actually have some control over it is to make it legal and regulate it. It sure isn't going away just because some of us find it immoral and unacceptible. I do take issue with those who equate marriage with prostitution. Although I do think some of you made those comments tongue in cheek. But marriage is a give and take relationship with both parties giving and taking. And sex isn't a job for a wife, it is a pleasure and something she desires as much as her spouse does. Besides marriage involves every aspect of life including things such as living arrangements, children, spiritual beliefs, health and nurturing and the list goes on. How could anyone argue that marriage is only about sex? Even a sexual encounter with ones' boss or co-worker is different than prostitution in so many ways. And btw, sex at the workplace doesn't always mean that there is harrassment involved or favors expected. With prostitution the sexual encounter in exchange for a fixed amount of money is the extent of the relationship.

well I hope his beer was lukewarm too... leaving a person to starve like that. You know I'm kidding. Do you have PF Chang restaurants up there? They are a chain, but if you want to you can order your own concoctions (although they don't advertise that). I find their Chinese food to be really quite good. Regular Chinese or any far eastern food is not the most popular in this part of Texas, so the pickins are slim. Except that we do have some very decent sushi places. Go figure.

For some reason I just got green's message. I hope you aren't still waiting!

The Cartman philosophy of life. I think I must have invented it. And yeah I want my cheesy poofs. How's green feelin? And don't say with her hands.

I went to an endocronoligist in Orlando many years ago. He put me on Optifast and it was just awful. I lost a lot of weight but eventually gained it back and more. During my last session with him (after about 9 weeks), he told me that most of his patients had been sexually molested. For the life of me I couldn't understand how he could know that most of his patients had been sexually molested. He never asked me if I had been, he just assumed that I was. Weird.

Beth I CAN understand explanations. I just haven't heard one that justifies your opposition to something that is absolutely no threat to you. You said that there has been a vote and that's all that really matters. You are quite wrong about that. What matters is what is the right thing to do, not necessarily what is popular at the moment. Disenfranchising a segment of society because you don't believe they deserve the same rights that you enjoy is wrong and that is what matters! Remember when people thought that women shouldn't be allowed to vote? Back then men thought they were right and they thought that was all that mattered.

laurigee: I saw the man interviewed and he said that the black flag represented a black day in America because his candidates McCain/Palin weren't elected. If you want to know what I really think though is that it probably did. He was just too embarrassed to admit it front of the TV camera.

I totally understand that some of you all believe that marriage should be for a man and a woman exclusively. However I can't understand why it matters so much to you whether it is legal for same sexes to marry. It is obviously incredibly important to them. But why is it so important to you to bar them from being legally married? I had this discussion with my nephew. He has some good friends who are gay and living together. He loves them and cares about them, but doesn't believe that they should be able to be legally married even though they've been together a very long time. I asked him why he cared. I asked him how his gay friends marrying could affect him in any way. He didn't really answer that, just reiterated that marriage is for a man and a woman and no one else. I'm sorry I just don't understand all the opposition to it.

RSG well done!!! I'm sure it fell on deaf (or angry) ears, but I am sure that they welcome your right to say it. Nancy, your daughter is lucky to have such a supportive mom. My daughter had a girlfriend in high school whose brother, a year younger, was gay. His parents were Evangelical Christians and very active in their church. When their son went to them and asked them how God could make him be a gay person when their minister said it was wrong in God's eyes, they were shocked. They had no idea that he considered himself a homosexual. They took him for counseling with their minister. They got him professional counseling with a psychiatrist who gave him antidepressants. The parents insisted that he chose to be gay and that with a lot of prayer and guidance, he could live a "normal" heterosexual life. It was a year of pure hell for poor Chris. Chris was gay. Period. He did not choose it to test his parents. He did not choose it because he just wanted an alternative lifestyle. No drugs or instruction from anyone could make him un-gay. When he explained that to his parents, they threw him out of the house - at age 16. They told him that as far as they were concerned, they had no son. Chris lived on the streets for a couple of years. His sister and my daughter helped him as much as they could, secretly because they knew the parents would throw their daughter out and ban my daughter from their house if they knew they had given any help to Chris. He wound up on drugs. He had no self-esteem. In fact, he hated himself for what he was. He contracted aids. He is getting governmental assistance in a program that my sister runs. Otherwise I doubt that he would be alive today. Not that living is something he wants to do very much. I am pretty sure that his parents and that minister are going to hell for what they did to Chris.

This goes to the very heart of the reason behind separation of church and state.

Watcher: I am very sad to say that there is a nutball here in Texas that was flying a black flag above an upside down American flag. He said that he is protesting the election results. The most disturbing part of the story is that he is a school teacher. He claimed that it had nothing to do with racial bias. He said that it is a black time in history because Americans are not sticking to the values he thinks are important. I decided a while back that people are just hardwired differently - some of them are just a few synapses short of bright. You'd think that someone well-educated enough to be a teacher would know right from wrong. I think I need to head for a nice quiet mountain retreat. Preferably with a little bubbling brook nearby.

I guess the question has been answered hasn't it watcher? We are definitely ready for a black president! And as for clusk's remark about feeling like we're getting rid of an evil dictator, I must say I think we are!

I get it pattyg. Your brand of Christianity is the only right one. I've listened to people like you before. I have no desire to clarify anything I've written so that you can understand it. Because I know that you are not interested in anything that I have to say. You just like to hear yourself spout your right wing extremist rehtoric. You like to argue about it so that you can feel superior - holier than thou, in fact. Besides, you said you're finished here. No more posts. Buh-bye. As for TommyO - dang guy, I'm sure gonna miss you. I totally agree with LBT being a very worthwhile tool during the first year or so before and after being banded. Then it becomes pretty repetitive and you get tired of answering, What is a PB? I've told myself to stop participating at Rs & Rs because there are so many nutballs who write nutty, negative things. But what keeps me coming back are the really bright, sweet people and I always learn stuff from them. Congratulations big time on your fantastic success!!! You have earned your graduation onto facebook or Youtube or wherever you can have a fun time. Like I said, I'll miss you dude. You're cool.

Just thought I'd ask. My folks were friends with some Oklahoma Goads for many years.

I think it is unanimous!!! Steve Goad, you the man! Btw, Mr. Goad, are you by any chance from Oklahoma?

Yeah, what they said. And as for marriage being between a man and woman because the Bible said so, just doesn't cut it. There are Christian churches that support gay marriage. Their religions are based on the Bible. They've just chosen to embrace the passages that call for peace, love and tolerance instead of exclusion, intolerance and hate. Don't get me started on the reasons that when some churches were formed, they wanted their members to have as many children as possible. It's right up there with rules for donating a percentage of one's income through tithe. (Which by definition is a tax of a tenth to support the church and its' clergy.) I am not criticizing churches, just making some observations. There are always reasons behind churches supporting certain positions in society and they don't all revolve around what the Bible says. Sometimes they have to do with ensuring that the church itself survives. And I believe it is healthy to not only question the Bible itself, but also the rules of the church one attends. If we don't, we are just following blindly like sheep.

Well said, Green. I for one thought you were thanking them for enlightening you on big business and off-shore activities with your tongue firmly implanted in your cheek. Don't you love it when you learn something new here?! I sure do

There is a passage in the Bible that says that you should not speak of your God to others if they do not want to hear it, and when you do speak of your God, you should do it softly and with humility. I'm plagarizing, of course.

Susan pattygreen started by attacking personally someone who was cool enough to share her story with us. Then it escalated from there - escalated mostly by pattygreen. I believe that she has insinuated in the past that I am not a Christian and that because I disagree with her beliefs on abortion rights, I am a Godless person. That's about as personal as it gets. I think that it would be a shame to shut this thread down since so many people have been given an opportunity to voice their opinions and tell their stories here. But I do believe that having someone so extremist rail against anyone who doesn't share her views is definitely not conducive to an open forum. I personally find all the talk of murder and killing to be particularly hateful So I support you 100%. Do whatever you have to do. It definitely has gotten out of whack on these past couple of pages. Our founding fathers by the way, came here because they were discriminated against due to their religious beliefs. That's exactly what pattygreen is doing to many of us here. I believe that the founding fathers wanted to establish a country where NO person was discriminated against because of his or her religious beliefs. Authors message: Some Christians have their own brand of Christianity. It is driven by a singular, narrow-minded interpretation of the Bible. It is driven by all the propaganda that surrounds their brand. To me it is a very hateful view of all things spiritual and religious. And although they call abortion murder and anyone who would have an abortion a killer, I have found most of them to be in favor of capital punishment. As I said, it's a hateful, hell fire and brimstone interpretation of the Bible. Guilt drives it. And it is terribly offensive.

Our taxes take care of military pay and health care for their families. I hope that Obama has no plans to put businesses out of business by some outrageous tax plan. I do not believe that he is that dumb. In fact, I do not believe he is dumb at all. He said that he wants to incentivize corporations and I think that's what he'll do. If companies really care about putting people to work and they do all the things that you, laurigee and your husband do for their employees, I do not believe that a tax plan that Obama comes up with will burden you to the point of putting you out of business. Now if there are extenuating circumstances - like a plant shut down in your town - that causes you to go out of business because people in the community can't buy cars, then that's different. Lets face it. The economy is bad and spiraling downward. Obama will probably have to make some really tough decisions. But there is no way that putting companies out of business by taxing them to death makes any sense at all. I used to live in Arizona. At that time, our state taxes were horrendous. And different states have different tax burdens. Some state taxes, combined with federal taxes are out of sight. I hear you when you speak of Wisconsin's high taxes. I know what that means and I certainly don't envy the financial downturn that is staring you in the face right now. If there is a true depression, your family will understand why you can't make it, just like millions of others will learn. God help us if Obama isn't able to pull us out of this mess.