ElfiePoo

Jackie, Congrats on the 6lb! .

I'm not using my 'feelings'. I'm using the *facts*. I know...for a fact...exactly what I put in my mouth, right down to a breath mint, every day because I record every single thing I put in my mouth through fitday.com. I know...for a fact...that according to the 'experts' I was eating 1100 calories per day less than the calories supposedly needed to maintain that current weight...and not losing. I know ...for a fact...that I had also increased my exercise to an hour of brisk walking per day plus aerobics twice a week so my calorie expenditure was greater...and still not losing. There is far more to losing weight than calories in/calories out...and even the 'experts' can't agree on it. To simplify it to calories in/calories out is doing a disservice to everyone. To the OP, in case this got lost in all this nonsense (which I'm just not going to continue with)...change up some of what you're doing. It could be that 800 calories is too low for you. I don't lose on 800 calories. Actually, I didn't lose on 1200 calories until I also started watching my Protein grams (excess Proteins can cause a glucogenic effect) as well. Depending on where your carbs are at, you might try lowering them to below 30...or at least below 60. I've found that carbs are not carbs for me. If I'm not trying to lose weight, I can go as high as 60gm of carb per day but if those carbs are in the form of bread, Pasta, etc. (versus vegies), I can actually gain. Our bodies are so unique. What works for one person will not work for another. For decades the nutrition and fitness industry have been trying to convince us that there's one perfect diet for everyone (low cal, low fat)...and that's just a lie. Hopefully you'll find what your body needs...just don't give up and don't let the naysayers depress you. Personally, I'd also be having a few words with my doctor about *his* attitude. . .

The reality is that it really all comes down to what you want. The psych eval is merely a formality required by most insurance companies. I thought it was to determine whether we would be a good candidate. My insurance company said it was just a formality to make sure we weren't suicidal or suffering from severe depression. I translate that to, "if you go to a shrink and they clear you for surgery and you actually do commit suicide, we're in the clear on a lawsuit". Ultimately, it should never be up to anyone but us, so if you feel like this is moving forward a little too fast, then haul in the reins. Move at your comfort level. If you need more time, take it. .

The reality is that you might go through all this and not lose the weight but it's all within your control Too many people get the band thinking that after surgery, they'll just magically not feel like overeating, will magically choose to make the right food choices, will magically not crave all the things that made them this obese to begin with. It's not magical and it all still comes down to self-control and willpower. *Maybe* the band will physically limit how much you can eat at one meal without getting your band overfilled. How do you know it's overfilled? According to my surgeon, if you're getting stuck on a fairly regular basis, despite taking small bites and chewing well, then you're overfilled. The way the band was designed to work was to put pressure on your vagus nerves which control the hunger hormone, ghrellin. So proper restriction is not limiting how much you can eat...but losing that hungry feeling with smaller quantities of food and keeping that hunger quiet for 3-4 hours...like a normal weight person. If you're a grazer, a junk food eater or a sweet eater...the band won't stop you from doing any of that...but by removing the hunger (if that's the reason you eat), it removes some of the difficulty in applying our self-control. My .02...if you want to know whether you'll be successful at the band, take a long honest look at your past eating habits and ask yourself why you eat. If it's because you are hungry, then the band will most likely be a benefit. If you feel it's because you just can't control your carb/sweet/etc. 'addiction', and you're looking for the band to do that...it most likely will not be a benefit because it won't stop you from eating all of those things. Good luck with your decision. .

I had one of those. I just snipped it with a pair of clippers...and then watched to see if my butt fell off. Sorry...old joke from my childhood. .

As I said...I detest 'know it alls' who feel free to call us liars and cheats because they hold an 'opinion' about how the body burns calories. I was originally referring to the OP's doctor, but if the shoe fits. It is not as simple as calories in/calories out...and it is not supportive to accuse someone of being a liar and cheat just because their weight loss does not fall in with your preconceived views of how weight loss occurs. . . .

Bay, I absolutely detest know it all people who try to make us out as liars and cheats when we don't lose. I went on an 800 calorie Optifast diet for 30 days (years ago) and didn't lose *anything*. I went on weight watchers, being absolutely anal about weighing and measure...and gained 12 pounds the first month. Over the last year, even on my 'bad' days, I've never gone over 1800 calories which is still at least 1000 calories a day *less* than I was eating pre-band which means I should have been consistently losing *at least* 2 lb per week *IF* the idea that calories in/calories are out is what it is all about. As many here have discovered, it's not all about calories in/calories out. Personally, I don't lose when I drop my calories as low as 800...and exercise does nothing to increase my weight loss. Sure I feel better and it's good for me, but from a weight loss standpoint...hasn't done anything. After a several month stall, I finally discovered that I have to keep my carbs below 30, my calories around 1200 and over 1000 and my Protein grams at least under 100 but preferably close to 70 in order to start losing again. So much for never having to diet once I got the band. .

Whenever my husband does or says something really stupid, I just remind him that when he falls asleep that night, there's no guarantee that he'll wake up in the morning. As someone already said...for every person who's successful from day 1, there are many more who take longer. It's taken me almost a year post surgery to finally get it all figured out and I don't have the added difficulty of going to Mexico for fills and unfills. At this point I'm 13 months post surgery and have only lost 43 pounds...about 13 of that in the last 4-5 weeks after no loss and/or major rollercoasting for 6-7 months. According to my surgeon, this is more the norm. That's why people who get the sleeve lose more the first year...but by the end of the second year, band people have caught up to them. Zen, sorry you're doing the whole sliming thing. .

Leigha, You're probably right about the 'mothering' but I refuse to have any more children and my husband...well, let's just say if I really did bring another dog home, life would not be pretty.

I went into this whole banded process with eyes wide open and having done my research and asked questions...and still spent the last year struggling to figure out what I was doing wrong...and realizing that I am not in the minority. Those of us who struggle with our bands are the norm, but hopefully we keep trying until we figure it out. I'd say to stop looking for physical restriction. Yes some people get this...but many more of us never do, even when we're overfilled. Instead, look for the cessation of hunger. If you can go 3-4 hours after a meal without hunger, then your band is doing its job. Your band won't stop you from craving all the things you used to eat, but it will help by removing the hunger that pushes you over the edge. *You* will still have to come up with the self-control to create new habits and not eat just to eat. .

Good morning everyone... I'm having sort of a 'eh' kind of morning. Could be it's just that time of year and knowing I won't get to share the holiday season with either of my oldest sons for the very first time...a 'first' I wouldn't have minded missing. One is married and living in Florida and it's our turn to go there but circumstances dictate that it's wiser to stay home this year. My daughter-in-law's mom died this past July, quite unexpectedly (blood clot after surgery on her knee) at the age of 49 so we thought it would be best to let her and her dad and sister have their first Christmas together. I think it's going to be a rough one for them. A first they could probably do without. The other son is in Afghanistan, although (thank heaven for small mercies) he's in the Signal Corps and they usually don't let him get too far from the base...heaven forbid the computers or phones should go down and he's not there to get his guys right on it. It could also be that I'm up 2 pounds this morning (canceling out the 2 lbs I was down yesterday morning) but I'm feeling sort of water logged and trying to figure out what the heck I ate last night that is making me hold so much water. I guess that's the silver lining...it is just water and I know it. Could be that, in the past, my holidays involved a lot of baking...and I just can't do it this year. I *know* that if I do, I won't be able to resist the temptation and, with the scales going in the right direction, I just don't want to do anything that will screw it all up. Hmmm...reading through this, I'm now wondering if I'm not dealing with just a bit of depression here. It might also explain why I'm going to bed 2-3 hours earlier and waking up (except for one or two nights) an hour or so later than normal and still not feeling rested *and* having vivid dreams. Not bad ones, but emotionally exhausting ones. Maybe I'll go exhaust myself on the Wii. As much as I hate to admit it, I've gotten to the point where physical exertion actually feels good after the first 10 minutes. Ok...have a good one y'all. Melody

Christie, Loved reading your update! Good for you for taking 3 of that off again, but stay focused and get the other 10 off! We all know how easily that 10 can turn into 20 and then 30 in a lot less time than it took to take it off! Melody

This is where I've gotten a lot of my recipes. I like the fact that she comments on how they came out, whether they need to be tweaked, etc. .

A few things to think about for all of you who are stuck in a rut or in the middle of a major stall...doing everything 'right' and still not losing...or worse, gaining. This was me for many months. I was getting more and more frustrated that at some point I stopped losing and, despite 'doing it right', I was roller coasting between the same 10 pounds for several months, but I never gave up. I would try something different for a month to see if that would make a change. When it didn't, I tried something else. I was so desperate that I even started to exercise (even though it's proven that exercise is not necessary for weight 'loss'). So, now that I finally figured out *my* problem, here are some possible ideas for those in a similar situation. Just my .02 and YMMV (your mileage may vary). First, track everything you eat in something like fitday.com or whatever method is easy for you. It's too easy to 'mentally' calculate that you're on target with the caloric needs of your body and, in reality, be way over. Not counting or tracking is only acceptable if you're losing or maintaining (and intending to maintain, not just maintaining as a stall). If you're still trying to lose...and not doing so...then track your food. It's the only way you'll really know what your intake is. Calories: Find out how many calories you actually need. There are so many things that factor in, but it's a good place to start. Here's a handy little calculator that will tell you what you need to maintain your current weight based on age, height and activity level...and how many you need to maintain your ideal weight. Some people may do better below this recommendation. You'll just have to find your individual requirement. Carbs: Most WLS doctors prefer their patients on a low carb diet. Unfortunately, some of these same doctors don't really understand 'low carb'. Yes, 130gm of carbs per day is 'lower' than 300...but it's not low carb. The standard set for low carb by people (like Dr. Atkins) who have been doing this for *decades* is under 60, but maybe lower depending on the individual's tolerance. I lose best when I keep my carbs below 30. If I keep my calories the same but increase my carbs to 60, my weight loss slows down or stalls. Protein: The body does not store Protein and if you don't burn it up, it will be stored as fat. Even on a low carb diet where you can eat more calories and still lose weight, excess protein will still cause stalls. Years ago I could eat about 140gm of protein and 2500 calories a day and lose 4-5 pounds per week...and that was without exercise. Now, for many reasons, I've had to cut my protein down to about 60. I'm not obsessed with that number, but I try not to go over 70gm because my weight loss stalls. Another consideration for diabetics is that it affects our blood sugar. I went from spikes after meals (despite no carbs) to not having to take my insulin at meals. A general rule of thumb: 1 gm of protein for every kg of your *ideal* weight (-6gm if you are small boned, +6gm if you are large boned...and circling your wrist with fingers will not tell you whether you're small or large boned. It will only tell you if you have short or long fingers. ). Fats: I'm not even going to get into a debate about cholesterol since much of what is touted as 'fact' by the medical industry has already been refuted. If interested, find a low carb forum and someone there will direct you to the relevant websites. Suffice to say that while a high carb, high fat diet is bad for you...a low carb, high fat diet is not. Evidence shows that people (I'm one of them) can eat a diet higher in fat and combined with a low carb (below 60) diet and their good and bad cholesterols will move right back into the normal range. I'm not suggesting you can eat unlimited quantities of fat...slathering butter on everything, but you can lose weight eating a diet that is 60% fat...and get your cholesterol levels within normal range. Exercise: Recent studies have proven that exercise is not necessary to lose weight. I believe that. I lost 70 pounds without exercising. I also did start exercising a couple months ago and it affected my weight loss not one little bit. Will it make you healthier? Yes. Will you most likely feel better? Yes. Will it help you lose 'faster'? Maybe...that has not been my experience, but others say it did for them.I finally found that in order to lose weight, I need to keep my Proteins at 30% of my total calories, fats at 60% and carbs under 30. Interestingly, this is what Dr. Atkins recommended to aim for after the first two induction weeks. Guess I should've read more closely. I do aim for about 1200 calories and some days I'm a little lower and some days a little higher depending on whether I put cream in my coffee. Let me say it again...YMMV. We are unique individuals and there is no one way of eating that is right for every single person. If you've hit a stall, change something up. *Any* change will most likely break your stall, but do *something*. .

This was yesterday's menu B: 2 eggs cooked in .2 oz butter and .5 oz cooked bacon (works out to about 2-3 slices of Oscar Mayer bacon) L: 6.5 oz can of tuna drained and mixed with 2 Tbs mayo and a bit of onion, 1 cup french green Beans D: 3 oz (after cooked) hamburger on an Oopsie bun (see recipe below) with 1 Tbs mayo and a bit of mustard, 1 cup steamed broccoli with 1 Tbs grated parmesan sprinkled over it. In between meals I have a mug (about 1-1/2 cups) of chicken bouillion with a splash of soy sauce and 1/4 tsp of toasted sesame oil. I usually have one (or two if I really need it) in the evening. It helps with the empty feeling in my stomach that I'm still not used to. My days totals came in at 1260 calories, 21 carbs and my fats and Proteins were in the ranges I set for them (fat was 62% and Protein was 32%). OOPSIE ROLLS (found the original on a low carb list and made a few tweaks based on people's comments) 6 lg eggs dash salt 1/4 tsp cream of tartar 6 oz cream cheese 1 tsp baking powder 1 tsp Splenda (optional) 1/4 tsp onion powder (optional) 1/4 tsp garlic powder (optional) Separate the eggs while still cold (yolk is more stable). Let them come to room temperature. I let the cream cheese sit out during this time as well. Using the whip attachment, I whipped the eggs with the salt for about 1 minute, then added cream of tartar and whipped for 4 more minutes (soft peaks). In a separate bowl with the flat paddle, I beat the egg yolks, cream cheese, baking powder, and seasonings. It kind of looked a lot like the Atkins version made with cottage cheese (little bits of cheese throughout). Then I slowly folded the whites into the yolk mixture until most of the whites were incorporated. It wasn't perfectly mixed in but that's not possible without breaking down the whites. I scooped the mixture out onto two baking sheets lined with parchment paper and put in a 300 deg oven for about 40 minutes (switching the pans so they'd cook evenly after about 25 minutes -- didn't want them to fall). I let them cool on the pans though just in case the centers needed that residual heat to finish cooking.

That is for the vertical sleeve. When they remove the part of the stomach that produces ghrelin, this effect lasts for roughly a year and then the body 'finds a way' to produce it any way. With the band, we are not completely removing the stomachs ability to produce the hormone so it's not finding it necessary to produce it in another way. We're just slowing the overproduction. For example, about an hour or so before it's time to eat, my stomach starts little growling noises or lets me know it's time to eat. That's the ghrelin. The rest of the time, I'm content because the band does to those vagus nerves what food in the stomach does for 'normal' people whose hunger goes away when they eat. I wouldn't look for 'physical restriction'. It doesn't work that way for everyone. Look for cessation of hunger...and learn what is real hunger and what is just bad habits and head hunger. .

I think it has to do with texture. I used to get stuck on chicken, eggs, meat...forget about vegetables. Then discovered I was overfilled because I was looking for physical restriction...and at least in my case, that's not going to happen even with an overfill.

Just add a Protein drink or two mid-meal. I do keep track of my calories because even at my sweet spot I have no physical restriction and could eat as much as I want. I also weigh and measure since I don't trust the 'eyeball' method. I've finally realized the my 'eyeballs' are connected to the stomach that just wants more and not to the rational brain. .

Denise: So, in spite of having Lasik, you still need glasses again? I've become so nearsighted that I've seriously considered it. Even with my prescription reading glasses, I have to take out a magnifying glass. Jackie: No such thing as overreacting. Hope everything checks out ok. Bay: My son is in Afghanistan (left 2 months ago) for the next year. This is his second deployment...and won't be his last since he's decided to go career. Only 15 more years until he can retire. I get through it with the Zen philosophy of 'living in the now'...not looking back because we can't change it...not worrying about the future because it isn't here yet and what we worry about may never come to pass. Looks better on my scale. Elcee: Come sit by me (so we can see each other better ). I have the same problem with my eyes. I now have one of those magnifying glasses that you can wear around your neck...and I still have to wear my glasses with it! Melody

When I went to my one and only nutrition class, the nutritionist said we should be aiming to eat one *cup*. Then proceeded to show us a 10" dinner plate that was loaded. Looked to be a 2 oz piece of meat, *at least* a cup of broccoli and well over a cup of mashed potatoes. In one of my follow-ups, the doctor's surgical nurse (does fills) said I should be aiming for 3-4 oz of Protein, 1/2-3/4 cup vegies and, if still hungry, 1/4 cup carbs. When I actually got a chance to see the doctor two weeks ago (first time since my two week postop surgical visit over a year ago), he said I should be aiming for 1200 calories, make sure I get 60gm of protein a day and keep my carbs under 40 and the bulk of them should be from vegies (which will ultimately limit any other types of starches as a result). .

That's because you're intelligent. .

If you can drink Water, then I'd follow his advice and go back to liquids, possibly purees (no thicker than milkshakes) if you can. If you're having trouble drinking water, I would call his office immediately and tell him that you're having difficulty getting water down and you need an unfill *NOW*. .

LFW, I would take smaller bites, chew well and then wait after you swallow to make sure it's not going to be an issue. I wouldn't think at 2.5cc you're overfilled, but we're all different. If you've been getting stuck every day it could be that you've irritated the band area and it's swollen. Maybe try first to be easy on your band for a week? Then see how you are. Have you talked with your doctor about this? If so, what'd he/she say? Melody

The best thing you all can do for yourself is to *STOP* comparing yourself to everyone else...and that goes for those who say "Look at how successful I am. If I can do it, anyone can do it." We are all unique individuals and while our basic anatomy is the same, they are not identical. Age, activity level, health factors and so much more go into how slow or fast we lose weight. Our reasons for being overweight will vary. Some eat for emotional reasons...some just bad habits...others because of a constant driving hunger. The dynamics of our personal lives vary. Some are able to remove all temptation from their home...either because they're single or they have fully supportive family members willing to eat the way we need to eat (healthy choices, no junk). Others have families unwilling to give up their own bad eating habits or who deliberately try to sabotage them for whatever reason. If you want to compare yourself to anyone...compare yourself to *you*. Keep a journal of your progress and when you feel like you're falling down, read back and remember where *you* started. Comparing ourselves to others will only help to make us feel like failures...and telling others "if I can, you can" (I'm paraphrasing) is only a way of grandstanding and saying "Look at me" while at the same time making the other person feel like a failure. <kicking my soap box back under the table>

Mary, I'm just curious but you said you did well for 18 months. Do they know why you started developing problems with the band? During that 18 months did you get stuck frequently? .