ElfiePoo

Atkins is not anti-carb. See this is the type of thing that just makes me crazy. I'm guessing you haven't even read his book because if you had, you would never have made this statement. Here's a short version that shows how very similar they are...and their differences.

Yes, I learned long ago that a person is either an advocate of Atkins or not. I've been doing Atkins since 1972. When I stayed on it, I lost weight, felt great, labs all within normal range. When I allowed myself to be convinced by my doctors or other 'experts' that this was an unhealthy way of eating, I'd gain weight, feel horrible and labs would be outside the normal range. I starved on the Optifast Diet and didn't lose anything. I gained 12 lbs the first month on Weight Watchers. Only on Atkins did I have any success...but I was stupid and allowed the 'experts' to convince me it was a foolish diet. Now here I am almost 40 years later with (until recently) poor HDL/LDL and an insulin dependent diabetic. Thank you AMA and ADA. In the last month I had lab work done and my HDL/LDL are back in normal range...thanks to Atkins. This past week I was able to go off all my insulin...thanks to Atkins. I know many many people who have been Atkins advocates for at least a decade, some more than 2 decades. Many were diabetic walking heart attacks...and now their doctors (who still are not sold on Atkins) tell them to keep on doing whatever they're doing. Just goes to show that even with the proof in front of them, these members of the AMA *still* won't admit that Atkins is a healthy way to eat. Personally, I'll put my faith in my own lab works...and those of other long time low carbers...rather than the AMA and ADA who have their own agendas...which don't always coincide with the health of their patients. .

Not at all. Within 6 months of starting Atkins all of my lab works were in normal range. Both my HDL and LDL were in normal ranges. My blood sugars were slowly came down to normal. As of this week, I am off all insulin. These results are typical of people who eat a low carb diet consistently. Keep in mind I am not talking about people who low carb 5 days a week and then eat 'normally' 2 days a week or people who rollercoast with low carb/high carb diets. Eating a high carb, high fat diet is a problem. Eating a low carb, high fat diet is not. My carbs are about 30gm per day and my fat grams are around 70-90 depending on whether or not I put cream in my coffee. I love Atkins. I eat bacon and eggs every morning for Breakfast. chicken salad made with real mayo and a tomato or cup of lettuce for lunch. Steak and salad with real oil and vinegar or some other type of low carb vegie (green Beans, broccoli, etc.) with cheese sauce or butter although I have to admit my usual choice is a sprinkling of parmesan cheese. I keep my carbs around 30gm per day and Protein around 60-70 just because I read somewhere that excess protein can act like carbs (in affecting insulin response) and I found this to be true for me. I broke a several month stall by lowering my protein. As a result of monitoring my carbs and protein, my calories come in around 1200-1300 on most days. I've had a few days at 1500, but that's not usual. .

Yes, the band works by putting pressure on the vagus nerves which in turn tell the stomach to stop product ghrelin, the hunger hormone. Some people get enough pressure just with the band. Others need varying levels to get enough pressure. .

First, contrary to what some will tell you, the band does not work for every one. It can fail *you*. Only you will be able to determine if that's you. If your band was maxed out, I'm going to hope that your doctor did whatever was necessary to determine the band was placed correctly and that it has no leaks. Assuming that is true... I spent the last year looking for that 'physical' restriction until I finally learned that it is not the primary purpose of the band. Yes, some people do get physical restriction, but very few get it without the accompanying signs of an overfill (frequent sliming and stuck episodes). The band's primary purpose is to put pressure on the vagus nerves which then tell the stomach to stop producing ghrelin, the hunger hormone. This allows us to better control our food intake...assuming you ate because of hunger to start with. The band won't stop us from eating just because we feel like it. So the first thing I'd do is work at getting fills back to the point where you aren't hungry. The rest is up to you. Here's what I do. I eat at the same time every day. Breakfast at 7 a.m., lunch at noon, dinner at 6. I used to eat every 3 hours, but since getting my blood sugar stable and my body used to a schedule, I can now go 4 hours before starting to feel the first signs of hunger. By the time I finish getting my meal ready, it's mealtime. In between meals, I will drink a cup of hot bouillion, tea or coffee or sometimes just a cup of hot Water (it's soothing when I don't want a 'taste'). If my blood sugar does swing, I'll eat a hard boiled egg or an ounce of cheese. I make sure to drink 64 fl oz of water. Not only does it keep my organs hydrated so they work more efficiently which in turn keeps the fatigue at bay, but it also helps keep my tummy feeling not so empty...a problem in the beginning when 'full' to me meant an almost stuffed belly. I keep my carbs low...usually under 30. Many people find it difficult to go from high carb to extreme low carb so do it in steps. The first week, just eliminate anything made with wheat or sugar and try to keep your carbs under 200. The second week, lower your carbs to 100. The third week, lower them to 60 and eliminate all carb except those found in vegies. The 4th week lower your carbs to 30. At the beginning of the 5th week, you can start slowly adding carbs back in to whatever level you like but a low carb diet is usually 60 carbs or less. Whether you choose to add rice, potatoes or Beans back into your diet at that point is pretty much a personal thing but I would caution you not to add wheat or sugar products since these seem to be the primary foods that cause us to start craving again. Use something like Fitday.com to record everything you put into your mouth. You'd be surprised at how many calories and carbs you can put in your mouth without even being aware of it. Don't give up. Confucious say "It does not matter how slowly you go so long as you do not stop." Oh and as someone else said, revision to a sleeve will not change the fact that you will still have to control what you put in your mouth and how much. There are just as many failures with the sleeve as with the band. .

The only regret I have is in not understanding that my band would never physically restrict how much I could eat *but* would eliminate my hunger...and that the rest is up to me. I spent so much useless time searching for that physical restriction. Regretting the band, however, nope. .

I wouldn't take anyone's 'word' for it. I would contact your local congressman to find out where you start in applying for a waiver...keeping in mind that they will most likely want the band removed and maybe some time without it to see if you can keep the weight off. The best offense is a good defense, as the old saying goes. Meeting with people face to face and educating them about your WLS will go a long way. After perusing some of the military sites, most of them equate WLS with gastric bypass or think that you won't be able to eat enough calories for the physical demands you'll put on your body. Please. I'm at my sweet spot no hunger) and I could still eat as much as I did prior to my band. While I might understand their stance if you still have a band, removal of the band *should* make you acceptable since you do not have a medical condition which would prevent you from fulfilling your obligation. Personally, this sounds like a form of discrimination to me but then there still are no laws to prevent discrimination towards the obese...or previously obese. There was a time when women weren't allowed into West Point because of the bigotry and ignorance regarding our abilities. The same is true of the band. Most people, including the military group all WLS into one bucket and the effect on our body is vastly different. So how badly do you want it. No offense, but not too badly if you're willing to give up on it based on a few posts in a weight loss forum. .

How do you define 'restriction'? It appears that your definition means 'physically limiting the amount of food' you can eat. Not your fault, since that is what way too many doctors are promoting. If so, you may be doomed to disappointment unless you are willing to get overfilled to the point of constant sliming and stuck episodes. I'm beginning to detest the word 'restriction' because it falsely implies that it will limit how much we can eat and we'll never be hungry again. Bah humbug. According to my physician, I am at my sweet spot because I can go 4-5 hours after a meal without feeling hungry. I can happily eat 1100-1300 calories a day without hunger...something I couldn't do pre-band. Heck, pre-band I was hungry 5 minutes after I finished a meal. I do not have physical restriction...and didn't when I had almost 3cc more and was sliming and getting stuck every meal because I was overfilled. So the question you need to ask yourself is...are you hungry? If you're trying to eat 1/2 cup of food, then it wouldn't be surprising that you're always hungry...but if you eat a normal meal - 3 oz of Protein, 1/2 cup of vegies, 1/4 cup of starches and aren't hungry for 4-5 hours then you are already at your sweet spot. .

This is not normal. If you are only able to eat a liquid diet, then you are overfilled. I was at the same point last summer. I had them take out almost 3cc so I could eat. Then I had them take out the remainder (long story) because I felt the band had failed me. My hunger came back with a vengeance. A week later they put back 6cc and the hunger almost immediately disappeared. I can eat whatever I want and however much I want...but I can go 4-5 hours between meals and that, according to my surgeon, is what we should be looking for. Not physical restriction but cessation of hunger. .

Oh yeah...Atkins is my long time buddy. The only thing that ever worked at taking off the weight. I use his 1972 book as I think his later books (some even written after his death) seriously compromised on the carbs...most likely to make it marketable. Not surprising since the current owners of the Atkins trademark also own Cinnabon. Atkins is probably rolling over in his grave. .

I am at my sweet spot (no hunger for 4-5 hours after a meal) but I could (if I wanted) still eat as much as I did pre-band and there isn't anything my band gets stuck on. So I keep track of my carbs, calories and Protein grams in fitday.com. .

It sounds like you aren't hungry, in which case your doctor is right. You are at your sweet spot...for now (it changes). If you're hungry, then you need a fill. If you get a fill because you're worried that your appetite *may* come back, then you're most likely going to end up overfilled. Take one day at a time. Just enjoy where you're at in this moment. .

Nate, I'm right there with you. Whenever I see someone post that their doctor or nutrionist told me them eat 1/2 cup, I just sit here and laugh and think what morons (the doctor and nutritionist, not the person being starved). My surgeon told me to eat if I'm hungry, but make good choices (eliminating sugar and junk foods) and keeping my carbs below 60. I was eating probably 1500-1700 calories per day. Prior to the holidays (I've gotten a bit off track and am working to get back on), I was eating 1100-1300 calories per day, carbs at no more than 30gm per day and could go 4-5 hours without being hungry. If I had tried to eat 1/2 cup of food, even being at my sweet spot, I would've been *starving*...just as I used to be on a 1200 calorie diet prior to being banded. .

Do yourself a favor and don't look for physical restriction. You should be looking for a cessation of hunger. Based on posts here on the LB forum I ended up seriously overfilled looking for that physical restriction. Not a meal went by that I wasn't sliming or getting 'stuck'. I won't go into all the details again, but a complete unfill reminded me that the band was doing its job by eliminating my hunger (which came back with a vengeance when I had the unfill). The band works by putting pressure on the vagus nerves which in turn tells the stomach to quit producing ghrelin, the hunger hormone. Some people get enough pressure just with the band. Others need varying amounts of fill. Hang in there...you'll get there. .

I'm still here and reading but haven't been posting much to any of the threads in the LB forum...frustration mostly. I see people being advised to keep getting fills until they're physically restricted but nobody much mentions that they should be looking for a lessening of hunger. Then, not surprisingly, these same people come back complaining that they can barely eat anything, they're sliming and upchucking at every meal, etc....and others sympathize and say this is normal when it shouldn't be! Oops...there I go. Changing tracks. I haven't lost or gained in the last couple of weeks but I'm happy just to maintain. The band does not give me any physical restriction and I can still eat as much or whatever I want just as I could pre-surgery. The only way I'll get physical restriction is at the cost of stuck episodes and sliming with every meal...something my surgeon tells me means I'm overfilled. I can happily say, however, that I'm not hungry...but that doesn't do much for my 'desire' to eat. As many have said, too bad we can't band our brains! The holidays have been pleasant despite the fact that my two oldest sons couldn't be home. However, it's now time to get myself back on track and I'm struggling, so I'm taking it in stages. This week I'm just eliminating wheat and sugar and keeping my carbs below 100 and my calories below 1500. Interestingly, since I've given myself permission to eat other types of carbs - potatoes, rice, etc. (within the carb limit I set), I seem to have lost the craving to eat them. My brain is contrary. Next week, I'm dropping my carbs to 60 and my calories to 1300. The plan for the third week is to drop my carbs to 30 and calories to 1200 and that puts me right back on track. I've spent the morning cleaning out cupboards and getting rid of all the 'temptations' as I'm discovering that one look at a can of cherry pie filling and my mind goes off into all sorts of murky corners...and I don't even like cherry pie. Oooooo...my husband tells me the mail lady just dropped off a box from our son in Florida. It must be the oranges and grapefruit he picked off the tree in his yard. Thank God they aren't wheat and sugar! Happy New Year y'all...and we are going to start a new thread on January 1, yes?? Melody .

Leigha: Unfortunately, I run into people every day who think only 'losers' get a band. Most don't know I have one. I happily inform that that they are right...which is why I'm 'losing'. They can't argue with results. Keep those FB puppy pictures coming! I've recently realized that my little Sophie was my 'baby fix' and now without her, I want another baby....which is not going to happen. So my children better start providing me with grandbabies or I'm going to risk the divorce and go out and get another dog! HB: Go ahead and whine. I can relate to not liking change. Chica: My resolution every year is to not make any resolutions. That way I'm never disappointed and feel like a failure. Shad: 118 lbs lost...whether pre or postop is nothing to sneeze at! Congratulations! Melody .

Excellent advice from your nutritionist. I see a lot of people being told to eat no more than 1/2 'cup' or 600 calories and, as a result, they're always hungry and end up getting fills to the point of overfill. If you can eat 600 calories without being hungry, more power to you...but they seem to be a rarity. .

Denise, When I was dealing with morning sickness during my pregnancy (way too many years ago), my mother-in-law used to tell me, "Watch what you eat. You want to make sure it will taste just as good coming up as it did going down." It was good advice. And, by the way, what moron named it 'morning sickness' when it happens throughout the day?! . .

Mellisande, Great post!! .

Jessica, If you're dealing with real hunger even after eating (and you've waited 20-30 minutes after since sometimes it takes that long to register), it sounds like you need a fill. Hunger is one of the signs for needing a fill. Your band isn't failing you (yet)...the doctor is if he's refusing to give you fills based on a fluoroscopy. The fluoroscopy can't tell him when you need a fill...only you can based on whether or not you're still hungry. .

Melly, Change your definition of 'full' to mean 'satiety'. In order words, when you finish your meal, is the hunger gone and can you go 3-4 hours before feeling hungry again. Unfortunately, most of us have a skewed idea of both full and hungry.

Actually...it's not. The band works by putting pressure on the vagus nerves which then tells the stomach to stop producing the ghrelin hormone which makes us hungry. That's why some people never need a fill. The band alone gives them enough pressure. Others need some sort of fill. It's not the food sitting in your pouch for 30 minutes (because the first time you take a drink you wash it through) that tells you 'enough'. It's the food that passes through the narrow opening (where the vagus nerves are) that puts additional pressure on the vagus nerves which tells the stomach to stop producing the ghrelin. From Allergan's site: "The LAP-BAND® System is adjustable, which means that the inflatable band can be tightened or loosened to help the patient achieve a level of satiety while maintaining a healthy diet" Yes, some people do have the added bonus of being physically restricted...but many many more of us never have any physical restriction even when we're overfilled and our list of taboo foods grows longer...and at some point we feel like failures because we can't figure out why we can still eat as much as we did before. I was on the verge of getting a sleeve revision because I thought my band wasn't working. Since it also has been causing me phrenic nerve pain, I told my doc to take the fill out until the surgery since the band wasn't working anyway. By that evening the hunger started and by the next morning I had a constantly growling, ravenously hungry gnawing in my stomach...even minutes after I'd eaten. I'd forgotten that I dealt with that constantly prior to the band. Two days later, after talking to the surgeon, I went back in and they gave me back 6cc of the original 8 they'd taken out. Within minutes that ravenous hunger was gone. Sure I get a normal hunger about an hour before a meal, but not the out of control ghrelin monster. Best of all, I can eat *anything*. I haven't had any PBing or sliming and no 'stuck' issues. eggs, hamburger, chicken, fish, salads, broccoli...all back on the menu and I can eat enough (not just a couple spoonfuls) to satisfy me for 5 hours. Most importantly, I've lost over 10 pounds in the last month which is more than I'd lost in the previous 4-5 months while I was looking for actual physical restriction and dealing with stuck episodes, overfills, etc. There are way too many people out there who most likely go right past their sweet spot where the actual hunger is controlled because they're looking for physical restriction they may never find. Worse...many give up because in order to get that physical restriction, they deal daily with PBing, sliming and stuck episodes. Eating becomes a chore because they spend it running back and forth to the bathroom. Some accept this as the new normal because they're losing weight. Many more give up. According to my surgeon, PBing, sliming and stuck episodes should be a rarity. If they're a daily problem, it's a sign of an overfill *and* the risk of band erosion escalates. . .

To PB, vomit and slime? .

The band is not supposed to restrict your food by making it difficult to eat. It's supposed to put pressure on the vagus nerves which control the hunger hormone, ghrelin. Once I understood that fact, I realized my sweet spot was at 6cc and not 8.75 cc and that I no longer had to give up eggs, burgers, chicken or all the other things that routinely 'stuck'...while still allowing me to eat slider foods because I was hungry from not being able to eat the things I *should* have been eating. Then again, I guess we all have to decide how the band is going to work for us. Personally, I love going out to eat with my husband again because I know I'm not going to end up in the bathroom several times during the meal due to sliming episodes. .

What do you think 'restriction' means? If you're looking for the band to stop you from eating in volume, that may never happen. While some people do have that bonus, many do not...until they're overfilled and 'stuck' occurrences are not a rare event...as they should be. Restriction is actually when you can eat your meal (assuming your doctor doesn't have you on a starvation diet) and go 4-5 hours without hunger. If you're still contantly stomach growling hungry, then you just might be one of those who needs more Fluid in the band before it exerts enough pressure on the vagus nerves (that control the hunger hormone). .