ElfiePoo

There are a number of reasons your body can go into ketosis. One is, literally, starvation and yes your body is cannibalising its own muscle to get the Protein it needs. The other is through a low carb diet. Protein on low carb diets tend to be 30% or higher. On this type of diet, the body does not cannibalize its own muscle. Instead, the protein we eat is converted to glucose and that provides energy to the body. It's more involved than that but if you want to read the whole explanation, click here. Do a low carb diet long enough and the ketosis goes away. It's easy to understand why after reading Dr. Eade's blog (see link) about ketosis. When I first started low carbing, my breath reeked and I couldn't even use mints because there were too many carbs in them! Now, no more bad breath. To the OP...if you aren't low carbing below 60gm, it's most likely not ketosis and I'd look for other possible causes. . .

No, you aren't stretching the definition and you didn't mess up. Some doctors put their band patients on the same diet as their bypass patients but there's really no reason for it. Many of us go through the stages in 2-3 days and are back on solids by 2 weeks postop. If you can follow a month long journey back to solid food, more power to you. Just don't stress that you've somehow done damage to your band or to your stomach.

Brunch: 2 egg mushroom & cheese omelet, 1 oz cooked bacon Dinner: 5 oz broiled tilapia, 1 c. garlic green beans (steamed, sauteed in garlic and butter)

Dr Bernstein wrote an article in 2008 in response to the new Diabetic Associations guidelines. I thought some might find it interesting. Here's the link but I thought this was rather interesting: One concern I have is with the guidelines focusing mainly on carbohydrates. Protein doesn’t raise sugar anywhere near as much as carbohydrate; however it can still raise blood sugar. Protein raises blood sugar by two mechanisms. The first mechanism is gluconeogenesis, which is the conversion of a small percentage of the protein to glucose. It converts to about 2 grams of glucose per ounce of protein, a very small percentage. An ounce is 28.5 grams. If you eat a 12-ounce steak, those grams can add up. The other mechanism by which protein raises blood sugar is the incretin effect, which in my books, I call the “Chinese Restaurant Effect.” Just distending your gut with anything will raise blood sugar, even a handful of pebbles, if you are a severe diabetic like me. So, just the presence of that steak in your gut will distend the gut, causing you to release hormones that will raise blood sugar. The first paper that I ever wrote that got published was published in the mid-1970s, somewhere around 1975, in a remote publication called Acta Paediatrica Belgique. It was entitled, “Protein as the Principal Source of Glucose in the Treatment of Diabetes.”

Vomiting and reflux are not normal. It's most likely a symptom of being too tight. You may just need a small amount taken out, but keep in mind that if you don't, both of these things have the potential to cause enough problems that you could eventually lose your band due to the damage you're doing. You didn't say how recently you were filled. If very recently, like in the last week or so, it's possible that you just had some swelling from the last fill. Is the 'vomiting' actually just getting stuck and urping up the offending piece from the pouch...or true vomiting from your stomach? If it's just ejecting the stuck food, I'd go right back to liquids for a few days to let any swelling go down (or get an unfill). If true vomiting, I'd call the surgeon who may recommend an unfill. Don't let this go on. Attempting to lose weight this way could result in band slippage or erosion...or even damage to the esophagus. .

Congratulations!

Ok...first thing I'd do is run your menu through Fitday.com. I can't tell from this since I don't how how much yogurt, cottage cheese, etc. or brand (which makes a difference) so can't guesstimate your Protein, but I'm going to speculate that your problem may be that you're just not getting enough calories or grams of protein. You should be getting a minimum of 60gm protein. Your needs may even be more depending on a number of factors, 60 is usually the minimum. According to my surgeon, Protein shake is fine for breakfast but recommended another mid-morning if I felt the need. I used the EAS powder from Sam's Club and mix it with unsweetened almond milk to keep both calories and carbs down (160 calories, 4 carbs, 25gm protein). It's also much higher in protein than many of the retail shakes like Carnation. Lunch should be (according to surgeon) 3-4 oz protein and 1/2-1 cup vegies. No sliders. Things like soup and yogurt were discouraged...but I think that's a personal thing as long as you aren't hungry and it gets you to the next meal. Oops...just noticed you said you *just* got a fill, in which case sliders are ok for a few days until swelling goes down, but I'd definitely go for the higher protein. Even adding whey Protein Powder to your carnation instant drink would bulk up the protein. If, after 2 weeks, you still can only eat sliders, you might need a bit of an unfill.

What are you eating? Can you post a typical day's menu? .

I just mix tuna or chicken with mayo and celery and then serve it on a bed of lettuce. Sometimes I'll get the bibb lettuce because it has very tender leaves and I'll wrap my tuna or chicken salad a la a thai type wrap. I've done taco meat that way as well. Re: potatoes - depends on which WOE you're following. For true low carb (below 60gm), they're expensive. If you're doing what some doctors consider low carb or following the traditional Diabetic diet, where 160gm a day is allowed, then it's doable and much better than processed carbs like bread. If you have a metabolism disorder, they'll spike your blood sugar. So it just depends on what *you* need. .

Geez...I say I'm going away and no posts for several days? Well, I decided not to. I think I was just having a down day and allowed the stress to get to me, but as Jack Nicholson said in "The Shining"...Honey...I'm ho-o-ome. I've been trying a bunch of things lately to help me with this continued *desire* to eat. I'm not hungry, but I still think of food way too often. Increasing my Protein seemed to be successful but I have to be very careful since the two max-protein drinks (50gm) are 200 calories each. I can't get that much protein in real food without exhorbitant calories which is why I chose the Protein Drinks to supplement. I was going to do intermittent fasting (IF) based on some articles by Dr. Michael Eades (he has a blog). After following his writings for a couple years, I've come to respect what he has to say. However, yesterday (during my first fast day), I found his follow-up article that was written several years after his initial article...and he said that the short term studies just don't pan out as far as increasing insulin sensitivity (my reason for doing it), although it does help suppress ghrelin. So for those without metabolic disorders, IF may still be the way to go to suppress the ghrelin. Oh, IF works with any WOE...low carb or high carb. My hoodia (recommendation by Dr. Bernstein) arrived yesterday, so I'm going to back my protein down to 60gm like it was before and see if this works at killing the desire to eat. He says it works as an appetite suppressant in 65% of his patients. I love that he *gets* that it's not all about hunger. It's all about the brain's desire to eat even when there is no hunger. Something to do with the ghrelin/leptin connection...but I'm just starting to read on that. Anyway...I promised my youngest son I would repair his baby quilt so he could take it off with him to Cedar Point (his summer job). I'm not sure what that says about my sons that they still cart their baby quilts wherever they go. My oldest son and his wife even took their 'ya-ya's' (blankies) on their honeymoon! Have a good one! .

Glad to hear you decided not to go. I recovered very quickly. Surgery at 6:30 a.m., kicked out at 2:30 p.m. because I was doing so well, stopped at the mom-in-law's on the way home and visited for 2 hours and a cup of tea. Then home. Next morning I went to work for 4 hours but was so tired I came home. Back to work the next day and continued on as normal. *STILL* I would never have considered camping. First of all, cot or sleeping bag on the ground...I would have had extreme difficulty getting back up on my feet. Getting out of bed required holding on to my brass headboard, slowly rolling to one side and then sort of rolling to a sitting position while holding my port area with the palm of one hand. If you'd gone camping, they might have had to create a new badge the boys could've worked towards...helping you to your feet. .

Terri, Glad to hear some doctors are getting rid of the medieval post op diets. I was fortunate that my surgeon made these changes years ago so I didn't have to go through the torture. I went through each stage of the postop diet in 2-3 days on each stage so by the end of 2 weeks I was back on regular food. Bypass has been around a lot longer, at least here in the U.S., than the band so many surgeons just took the pre and postop rules for bypass and applied them to their band patients...even though there is no medical reason necessary for such strict postop rules. Sure...if you can follow them, it will most likely result in greater weight loss that first postop month, but the minute you start eating again, it's very likely that much of that will will be regained but YMMV...but most people can't follow them and then they feel guilty and think it's one more failure. .

Your band is 'totally' full...as in you have a 10cc band and there's 10cc Fluid in it...and you're still hungry? Do you have any issues with physical restriction because a band that is completely full would likely cause problems with stuck episodes on some foods. So, a few suggestions. I would either find a new band doctor...or *make* OSU work with you. In either case, the first thing you need to do is find out if it really is full since you're still hungry. They can do this easily enough by drawing out the fluid to see what's there. This would at least rule out a leak. Then, make sure *you* are following the rules. Many surgeons recommend a low carb diet so a typical day might be 1-2 eggs for Breakfast and 3-4 oz of Protein and 1/2-1 cup vegies for lunch and dinner. No slider foods. No drinking with meals. Then pay attention to your body. Are you really 'hungry'...or is it just a desire to eat? Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference at first and we need to really pay close attention. If you think you're hungry, have a cup of hot tea or coffee or bouillion...or even hot Water. It soothes the stomach (and even the mind) long enough to determine whether it's true hunger. Sometimes it's just the ticket for getting you to your next meal. Is it possible the band has failed you? Yep...but I wouldn't go there just yet. .

Personally, I'd be a little cautious about 'running' or even 'jogging' until you at least got under 300...although 300 on you is probably nowhere near as debilitating as 300 was on me (a 5'3' woman). As someone said earlier, start out with baby steps. Just get out there and walk. You can do that right after surgery. Increase your distance and speed (as your postop healing allows). Then progress to running. My brother is a runner and says that running isn't a problem on joints...jogging is because you step down differently on jogging than you do running and it puts more stress on the shin bones and joints than running does. I'm no expert so I can't verify that, but if true, it seems to make sense to go from power walking to running. Most of the orthopedic experts seem to agree that running is good and does not lead to joint problems or osteoarthritis for people who do it as a recreational activity *as long as* the person did not already have joint problems. Although this is not true for the 'professional' athletes who run for a living. Apparently, if you already have issues with your knees and other joints, running may not be appropriate because it may cause faster deterioration. I really couldn't find too much from reputable orthopedists about whether an obese individual would cause damage to their joints from running...but many obese people do have compromised joints from years of abuse, so perhaps getting checked out by an orthopedic doctor first? .

B: 2 eggs in .2 oz butter, .5 oz cooked bacon L: Chef's salad - lettuce, 1 chopped hardboiled egg, 1 oz shredded cheese, 1 oz diced ham, 2 Tbs blue cheese dressing D: 3-4 oz rotisserie chicken, artichoke with vinagrette

Velvet, I had read that intermittent fasting was good for resolving insulin resistance and reducing the production of ghrelin. Unfortunately, I found the update to that article (recommended by someone I respect highly) where he said it just didn't pan out and actually raised blood sugar in the short term. As a diabetic, that's a problem for me...particularly since they don't know what happens in the long term. So the 'nothing' for breakfast and lunch was the intermittent fasting, but since control of my diabetes is what it is all about for me, fasting (even though it does help slow production of ghrelin - hunger hormone) is not appropriate for me.

Yep, me too. Plus, and I was so bummed to find this out a couple weeks ago, but the powdered Splenda (packets or bulk) and most sugar free products contain maltodextrin...which can spike blood sugars in diabetics and cause an insulin response (T2)...which can start the cravings again. I immediately went and looked at my Crystal Lite packets and, yep, 'maltodextrin'. Fortunately, I only drank them as an occasional treat, but did notice on the days I had them that I struggled with the cravings more. I just thought it was the 'sweet' taste and it was all in my head. Nope. .

I'm not sure what type of WOE you're trying to follow, but if it's low carb, many people struggle with going cold turkey. So for 3 days just give up sugar (including fruit), then for 3 days give up what (and the sugar). For the next 3 days give up grains (along with the rest). Finally for the last 3 days give up starches. On day 13 tweak your diet a bit more so that now you're eating just Protein and green vegies...and keep your carbs under 60. Under 30 will result in faster weight loss. If you're eating under 60gm of carbs you can eat a diet higher in fat. If you're eating over 60, you probably should pay attention to the fat. If you're not doing low carb, then you can just ignore my post. .

Joleen, You won't regret it, but I'm not sure which book you're referring to. My favorite books...ones I keep going back to (for those who haven't seen them in my other posts) are: The Diabetes Solution by Dr. Richard Bernstein Good Calories/Bad Calories by Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes The Great Cholesterol Con by Dr. Malcolm Kendrick *Lots* of very valuable information...particularly for the insulin resistant who do everything right according to the ADA and still don't lose. ..

Ah pfooey...just found an updated article from Dr Michael Eade's website (love him). Several years back he gave a thumbs up to IF, but in a more recent update, he said that it just hasn't panned out over time for helping insulin resistance or even losing any noticeable weight. In fact, some people gained. It's good for other things, but doesn't seem to be so for the thing I'm particularly interested in. Now he did say that studies were of such short duration that they don't know if the problems (increased blood sugars, development of insulin resistance) would resolve over time so I'm tempted to at least try it for a few weeks and/or until my blood sugars become worrisome. I *am not* going to go back on insulin. Note: This obviously isn't an issue for people who do not have metabolic disorders and he did reiterate that ghrelin production did seem to lesson over time with IF so it might still be a good thing for others. .

I tend to read...a lot...and I make copies of articles, studies and lists of books and take them into my diabetes specialist and primary care and we talk about it. Well recently, I came across several articles that said one way to quickly reverse insulin resistance is through intermittent fasting (IF). It can be done with low carb or regular diets. I took these articles into my doctors to find out what they thought and was surprised to find that not only had they heard of it, but they recommend it! There are a number of ways to do IF, but their recommendation was 24 hours of eating followed by 24 hours of no eating and the 24 hours should run from 6 pm to 6 p.m. That way you actually do get to eat something each 'day' even though the 24/24 rule is still in effect. So yesterday I ate Breakfast and lunch (my typical low carb fare meals. I had a small Protein snack (3 oz of cheese) around 5 p.m. Nothing after 6 p.m. Today, no breakfast or lunch but I'll get dinner at 6 p.m. I'm planning on a 4-6 oz burger with cheese and salad with blue cheese dressing. Then I'll get breakfast and lunch, but no dinner the day after...and so on. Apparently, another side effect they've found is that over time the body stops producing as much ghrelin, and the appetite is suppressed. I like this better than the 'pushing protein' (even though it seems to be working) because it has the added benefit of helping me become insulin sensitive...which will also help with faster weight loss. Am I hungry? Not so far <fingers crossed>...but even if I am, I know I'll get to eat at 6 p.m. .

Mandy, I'm so sorry that you had your band removed. Have you considered the sleeve instead of the bypass? It's a bit less drastic. .

You're not a failure! You're not a failure! You're not a failure! Keep telling yourself that! This is a journey. We aren't going to change a lifetime of bad eating habits (which generally are a result of our lifestyle which we've developed as a result of our eating habits) overnight. You've lost 40 lbs! Yeah!!! Don't look for your band to physically restrict how much you can eat. It just doesn't work that way for many people. Look for cessation of hunger and until you figure out what that is...eat a reasonable meal and then step away from the plate. Count calories, count carbs, follow weight watcher's guidelines...do something that helps you determine what 'reasonable' is. My surgeon was happy with my 2 eggs and 2 slices of bacon for Breakfast (I do low carb/high fat) and then 3-4 oz of Protein and a cup of vegies for lunch and dinner. When my food was gone, I was done. Even now, without my band (long story), I try to keep the same habits because they keep me accountable. It's just too easy to keep eating 'because we can'. .