tdslf1

Saw this line the other day.....

"I stand by the truth so I don't have to stand by the Republicans" Same can be said for Palin and Flux Noise,

classic........

Back on topic to Sarah Palin.

I personally hope she runs for POTUS in 2012. I will be glued to the TV, Internet and any other news outlet that will run her interviews on foreign policy, domestic policy, gay marriage Prop 8, what she thinks about magazines, abortion or ANY subject she might think to speak on. I will await with baited breath on any subject she wants to speak. Except with Fake News which will probably have a ghost speaker pretending to be Palin.........

Pattygreen,

Are you one of those people that are Amish? If you are I am so sorry I didn't catch it until I read this post. But if that is the case and you practice ideas such as you Amish do.....why are you sneaking on the computer at these weird hours when you know full well you must be violating some tradition of modern day creature comforts. I take back the stuff I said and thought. Now I get it.

I'm going to quit this banter with Pattygreen, I'm having too much fun. It's like slapping a bulls ass while on his back. Just classic. I can't deprogram this one folks..I've had many sessions on trying to do just this, but she keeps running in circles and I'm beginning to get bored with the Rethuglican cheerleader. But it is fun......

I'LL BE BACK -ARNOLD

"I recognize that there are people in the world, like you, who think the opposite of me, and I accept that."

Were you or were you not the one who said that you have a problem with homosexuals?

Ever a kid the age of 5 knows what a breast looks like. What's the big deal.

Hello All,

Healthcare seems to be coming into fruition. Too bad for the public option but I hope they have in place some kind of provisions to stop the waste and to reign in the insurance companies in place of them. Maybe what they come up with will be better. My hope is that they can cover not just the older folks but the young adults that can't get insurance without paying an exorbant rate. There are people out there that have low income jobs (making less than 15000 a year)that can't afford insurance and medicaid won't cover them since they don't have children and they aren't females with babies. I know of several people that I counsel that are in this situation. They are scared to go to the ER because they know they will have a bill they can't pay. I know of one girl who can't even get her ear fixed(partially deaf) 21 years of age, parents are also poor, has a job at Walmart. Medicaid said no insurance to her and she is stuck with a bum ear. She wants to get into the military if she gets it fixed. People like this need help and insurance.

Pattygreen,

I think you have lost your compass in the woods. You have overstepped your bounds and I can tell from the constant stream of religious talk, you have lost your contexted place in the world. As stated above, you are beyond the help of mere mortals such as us. I think your interpretations are too literal for you to ever, ever be content or aligned with a world such as this. I have begun to feel sorry for you because to me you seem to be a bitter and very rigid person. Now I reeeeally feel bad because I said that and although living with the bible is great, really great, you seemed to have missed the fact that you live in this century and our forefathers, who lived in another time altogether, did not have the benefit of knowing what we as this centuries people know and respond to. Therefore their responses are going to be different if you keep thinking they will respond literally such as you and your kind.

Great stick your head in, keep it there do what makes you feel comfortable. I and many others will continue to read the bible, take away what is relevant in our contexted world and move on. Raging against what you will never be able to change will lead to ulcers and a mental breakdown for which you seem to be heading or arrived at. No government of this country will ever lead with religion. Just won't happen because there are people like you who would lead this country to ruin itself because you ignore the basic principle of our foundation and embrace only religion as your light. Individualized caretakers, freedom to practice whatever religion we choose without rancor, without having to deal with people who want to impose their religious will. Where do you think the phrase separation of church and state came from? Just so a person like you could not use their power to influence the rest of us(of which there are more of) to do the wrong thing in the name of religion,like blow up a building because we go to war, or kill in the name of God or Allah.

I can just imagine all of the limitations you must place on yourself in the name of religion. As I mentioned above, people who flew the 911 planes into our buildings and killed so many people, also took their belief in God beyond their contexted world, just like you. And before you say,"I am not like that", yes you are, that is why you and your comments rancor folks here through these threads. You are trying to convert us through fact, fiction and one line sentences from the bible . We can see the craziness in all that you write. It scares me to think that you have influence over small impressionable children. People like you make kids go out and get pregnant and then the kid tries to hide the baby by killing it or running away from home because they bring down a wrath from you that is not contexted in their world. Lord help all around you who get this daily flood of misinterpreted rhetoric you put forth. I think of you that way and I feel sorry for you, because extremism in God, Allah or any such belief that goes too far and takes those words literal, only bad can come of it. How do I know you have went beyond the pale? Look at how many threads you have started about the big bad govenment and specifically Obama using religion? You have more than 1600 times expressed yourself. There is something wrong, seriously wrong with that. You have ended up right along side thoses 911 zealots in my book and will continue to drive people away. Practice your religion, but when you become so focused on the word and ignore the contexted time in which you live, you lose something and I think it is your mental rationale. I am sorry if this pisses you off but I hope you don't take it to the extreme and harm yourself because you keep throwing yourself against a wall that will never move........

Pattygreen,

Basically what you have been saying from what I can read of your other posts is God does not like what Obama is doing. That your communication with God is so pure, purer than most, that you can say with complete and utter confidence that he does not like what Obama is doing? That he has placed you, and you alone in the care of what he wants for this world? That none of us have that same communication that you do since we support our POTUS and thus must not be worthy of this sacred confidence? Pattygreen, you need to get a good grip on yourself. You have gone beyond quoting the bible. You have ran, not walked, into the realm of blasphem. God's will is your will...........sheesh. Lots of people do things in God's name, like sacrafice and martyrdom as in 911 hijackers!!!

No one is disputing the fact that you know God more than many others. But that does not give you the right to call people wrong because they don't take the bible as literal as you!!! We never said you were wrong, we said you were misguided in using the bible to justify this blasphem, Sarah's idiocy and Fake Noises rhetoric, which you happily spew. What is in dispute is the fact that you say you know what his wishes are today regarding Obama. I say shame on you for saying his name in vain and saying he is judging other people and it is actually you doing it. Shame on you..........

You still have not answered the question with concrete answers. We all read the bible and try to live by it but no one should presume to know God and what he wants. You go too far in your rhetoric. You don't know God any better than the next HUMAN. So please recognize your limitations otherwise you are lost. But maybe you already are from this above statement............

"All of my beliefs ARE God's beliefs. He guides what I believe in my life. His word is true and the Only truth as far as I'm concerned."

I thank you Pattygreen for your response. I guess it just became extremely clear to me that you think you know what God would want and the rest of us should just go fly. But I have one more question. What makes you know, not think, God does not approve of Obama and what he is doing? See, I would never, ever think that I knew what God's plan was. I am humble that way. After you answer the above question. Ask yourself, who the hell are you to think YOU know GOD and what he may or may not want?

You just made my point. A leader encompasses all of its inhabitants, not just Christian because they recognize that just because we started that way does not mean we end up that way. This country is changing. You still are stuck on running the country needs to be Christian like. Great since we are mostly a Christian nation. But what if this country became more Muslim or Atheist, are you saying that a leader is supposed to ignore that and still continue to do only what is Christian when the bulk of the country is Muslim or Atheist? To do that would mean a leader would not be representing his people.

I am getting banded in January and I am holding on to this diet and losing weight slowly right now. I am dieting but sometimes the scale does not move some days even though I walk my 30 minutes and I try to eat under 1500 calories a day. I hope that I can get another 10 lbs off before January 11 when I go to have the surgery. Good luck everyone.

"She is a Christian. This is a number 1 for me because those who believe in Jesus have the Holy Spirit residing within them and therefore have his guidance. This is sooooo much more important than human wisdom. God guides and directs and protects and blesses those that are of his family."

You know what I thought when I saw this sentence. God protects and blesses fools and babies. You are right.

Pattygreen,

You are right. I attack Palin. I attacked her because you and others like you are holding her up as a comparison to Obama and there is no comparison. She has never had to deal with complex issues. She has not had to think beyond her world and expand her thought and ideas that would include all of us, not just the religious few. She came out on the side of being against abortion, against, global warming against a whole host of things that are coming our way that we need to deal with as a country, collectively. She can't just be for what you or she thinks. She has to be for what the majority think. When someone tells me, they are about to take away my right to have an abortion, if I choose to, I have a problem with that. I believe in free choice within the boundries of what the country needs and wants. I believe in gay people getting married and having all the headaches I have being a straight married person. She apparently doesn't think that way, so I would not support her for being my president or VP. SHe has to think for ALL of us and govern the country accordingly. Not just for me. If she had ran as POTUS and won, I would support her against any country on this earth because she was the majority's choice and that is the way it should be. I don't personally attack her beyond her lack of education about the world. I have never called her a liar or unchristian, personal attacks like you have done Obama. You don't know him personally, thus you sound crazy when you do attack him personally. I have attacked her personal acts, not being able to speak in public, logically, coherantly, with substance. Obama has done nothing personal that would lead me to call him a hethen such as you have. You can attack his job performance, which is too early to make judgments against. I can attack Sarah personally because that is all I have to judge her by, her personal life, not public since she quit her job before anybody knew anything about her job performance. Obama gets no personal attacks from most becase we don't know him. You don't know Palin but you think you do. And that is what we say. What we know is she is not worldly enough, not caring enough of others and the world around her to be an effective leader for all of us. There is a difference between work performance and personal attacking. Most people get a review of their job. For the president that is the 4th year, when he gets voted back in or out. Not after his first year. So, by you attacking him without the man even getting out of the gate good, most people think you have serious mental issues, at least I do......

Pattygreen,

You don't get it. It is not that she is not God fearing, so is Obama. So are most people. That is not a criteria to be president or VP. It is not that she is not a good person, maybe she is. Her problem lay in the fact that she is just not capable of understanding and deciphering complex issues of which this country has and to express them with any understanding. You speak as if you know her. You speak as though you know Obama. You don't know anything about them, personally except what you see on TV. Don't believe everything on TV. Most liberals were willing to give her a try, but she fell down. She never spoke one word with coherancy? but because she spoke of God in every speech she gave, you and others like you, think she is what this country needs? She can never be what this country needs because her world view is too small. A leader has to have a world view, an acceptance of it, and how our country can succeed in it. She doesn't have that view, that people think and act and are motivated different that her and that that is not bad, just different. As though because people don't speak of God the first thing out of their mouth, that they are somehow less than you or should be called hethens. I don't mind people speaking on religion, but a country can't be run like that otherwise we would be like all of those religious ones in the middle east and we are too far different. Our country will never be run that way because we have too many religions and too many beliefs beyond religion. Christianity is just one of then. It is a big one but not the ONLY one. When you get that understanding, that Christianity is not the best, you will see what others understand, not necessarily accept, but understand, that we cannot run this country like a church with the Pope running around expressing his religion on us all because we don't all believe what he believes. You can't ignore other religions like yours is the best. A leader has to think of all his people's religion and thus the only position is to have no position in governoring the land. No bias towards his religion. No putting down of other peoples religion. Palin may be fit to run people like you, but not a person like me who has a different understanding of other cultures, tolerance of peoples views and is not necessarily a practicing Christian. Obama is God fearing as well, regardless of what religion you think he has. So is Sarah Palin and that is not the issue.

The issue and basic question is can this woman run a country as complex as this. We gave her a test and if you and all those God fearing people be honest, she failed it, thus no she is not ready. Religion has to be put in the context in the world we live in. When you go to your job, you don't get on top of the chair and call people to order and say "today we are going to put God first and let no one make choices that God would not do". You would be seen as a zealot, a crackpot. Why? Because running a business is for business, regardless of religion. You are free to practice anything anywhere, but not in the form of ruling a complex body of masses of people with different religion, culture, race and ideologies only by your way of thinking if you are a true leader. A leader recognizes that he is not the best and his religion is not the best and acts accordingly, regardless if he likes it or not or if it goes against his religious principles. This is what makes us so great, our differences and the way we live cohesively, by recognizing that the government will not use our religion and lack their of, against us like in other countries. You seem to want us to be that way and we never really were and never will be that way. People who are religious are not better than everyone else, they are just different. I am not particularily religious. I don't go to church, but I do believe in God. That doesn't make me less than you just different. This may not make Obama less than Sarah, just different. Great you like her. Plenty people like her, but she has to be qualified for the job and she is not, I know I am not, you are not, but at this point in time, Obama is according to the vast majority of people in this country, plain and simple. That is what is called a Democracy, we the people(majority) voting a leader in who we think would think for all of us not just the religious few, not the black few, not the small business few, but all of the few, and we did so. You just happen to be on the other side and think he doesn't think for all of us because he doesn't necessary think like you. Maybe he does think like you, but I don't want to see that. I want to see him run the country for the good of the country, not just one group or religion. Don't matter whether I like him or not. What you think is not the best and neither is my thoughts, but that doesn't make his thoughts bad either. History will tell us that. He is thinking for all of us, not just me, not just you, but for all. Don't you think that he has people at his disposal that can tell him the things you are thinking? Like he just woke up one day and said lets ignore tort reform, ignore insurance across state lines? Please, apparently, the most brilliant minds have told him these would not work and dismissed them to a certain degree and moved on. You need to move on from that because apparently the implimentation of those would be bad for our country or not good at this point in time. DOn't be against the president because he doesn't think like you, learn to see other ideas besides your own, he apparently does.

There you go attacking Obama yet again in a thread designed for why liberals hate or dislike Palin. Following up with

"I believe Palin is an honest, sincere person, who has a higher moral standard and code of ethics than other candidates I've seen. Just because she is weak in the area of public speaking "

Weak? Did you say weak? If the poor thing could align a thought for 5 minutes, she might be half way coherant. My 7 year old kid asked me about how Putin was in her backyard. No better light has been shown as to why we need school reform as does it when Palin speaks. Liberals everywhere snatched a collective gasp and felt a sick swell of the gut all at the same time ashamed of the American school system. No kid should have to see the school at its worst. Now she gets co-signed as the great AMerican standard bearer by hard working God fearing folk? Huh.....? Lord help all of us if she makes any more people proud. I don't even half way want to let my kid speak her name let alone have a conversation about the fact that she was too caught off guard to answer a question about her reading material. You completely ignored the posting from CLeo's Mom. You know what...I do have a question, what was she trying to expain in that video? Even O'Reilly threw an easy one to her just like Couric and she stiiiiiiilllllllll managed to sound stupid. Away from the spotlight she sounds stupid, in front of the camera she sounds stupid and yet..........you can still defend that ignorance with a straight face. And please list your criteria for her high moral standards as you put it? This should be great reading if you can stay on this topic without a rant about Obama's lack of moral fortitude. Lets have it.........Try to change MY mind since I seem to not see something that makes this person sooooooooooo special.

Pattygreen, good you list these things. And again we ask...what does Obama have to do with the stupidity of Sarah Palin? Absolutely nothing, you have nothing to add to this conversation and refuse or are incapable of staying ON topic. If this was just a rant about Obama, why didn't you start that thread and stick with it? We are here to argue the virtue or lack there of of Sarah Palin and our continued and permenant disdain of this clown of politics. Stick on topic if you're capable. You do nothing for your premise about her with these rants because they make you lose the argument on first rip. You got a bee in your bonnet about Obama, please write the WHite House since you seemed to be really, really, jammed up about him. And not in a mentally healthy way either. That post above, definitely unstable.

People please understand one thing if you take nothing from this conversation. Rush, Beck, O'Reilly, and Hannity are on TV to entertain, period. Regardless of the degree of outlandishness, distortions or outright lies. That is their job. You can't believe anything they say since it is their viewpoint that is being promoted and not necessarily the truth. They are good for a laugh, but that is it. I sometimes watch them just to see how the other half lives. I laugh my tail off at the obvious craziness that they say and am completely astonished that even one letter of what they say can be told as fact. When you take them as gospel, just because they said it, you have fallen into the trap of believing everything you hear on TV specifically Fake Noise. Problem with these characters (because they are characters created for entertainment) people actually believe that the government is out to get all their money already so their belief system is tapped into anyway. You can't change a mine that gets legitimate info from these characters and believes that govenrment is ALL bad. I could site some instances in which these characters lied, but why argue about that idiosy. They hold Palin up as a saint and Godly woman who must be better than the current government. I say maybe she is but she darn sure is not as smart and never will lead to her being in the White House, but I for one say give her a shot. Everybody deserves a shot. That is the American way.

Many points to make on this subject.

People on medicaid do not get it to get over on the system. They get it because they have a food problem and they just happen to be overweight and on medicaid. Educated people on medicaid recognize they have a problem just like you do with your BCBS, AETNA, Wells Fargo,self pay and others so they get the surgery done. Just because you are self pay does not make you better than a medicaid recipient, just means you paid cash. If people on medicaid could get it paid with other insurance, they would do that too. Once your mind is made up to have the surgery, you will do what needs to be done to get it done. It really gets my goat when you have couch psychology about people on public aid. People would say that medicaid should be used for the basics. Why? Poor people have all sorts of issues just like you do. They have family, bills, cars just like a working person does. Why not have the surgery if they are overweight. I feel if you are overweight, and feel like you need a tool, have the surgery, whatever the means. This is not using the system just because it is public aid. Medicaid insurance has standards just as your insurance company does. If the people on medicaid didn't qualify, they wouldn't let them have it. People make it sound like public aid people just walk into any place and demand to have things done, given to them, without question. Pleeese, don't make the fact that you have a friend or family member on public aid and they take advantage of the system, the norm for this board because you would be sorely dissapointed by the class and intellegence some of these people have regarding their situation. There are scam artist in all walks of life with jobs. Most people who want weight loss don't care what kind of insurance they have as long as it covers what needs to be covered.

Lets respect how we all got here.

Nobody dislikes Palin because she is a woman. She just happens to be the wrong type of woman, the wrong fortitude for the position she keeps trying to campaign for. As in an earlier post, reasons were stated. They were perhaps just my reasons, but I think valid. Notice I never attacked her character like some on here do to Obama when ever she is compared to him. She is 30000 leagues under the smart threshold established for the position she wanted and wants. There will never be a comparision of the two regarding brain power. She has no ammunition to fight. Besides, the comparison is infantile. Sidebar, sure there were some sexist behavior, but many of the commentary was made by men, so there will be random talk that will be misconstrued or interpreted, sexist. Palin seems to be the type that does not know when to get off the stage when her time is up. Great. Let her have her time to sell her books to the crowd who likes to believe she is "true and honest". Too bad her true and honest comes with a lack of critical thinking skills, especially long term. Wish I had a hustle like her. I would sell books to the "true and honest" crowd too with a staight face.

I think this needs to be made clear.

Most people do not support the current bill in the Senate in its current form, but we do support passing healthcare. That is the current question that most are being asked. Do they support the healthcare bill now? Most people do support having healthcare, but not in the current form of

a) healthcare going backwards for women that they passed in the House

:smile: not all Americans being insured

c) No Single payer system

d) Spending more money

What these polls point to are for the current bill, not healthcare completely. Please understand the difference. Most people do want it, just with the things listed above getting address better.

I agree 100%. I don't have any military experience ut I do have 2 brothers who served. They are pro military but they also feel that we should get out. The reasons you stated above about why you voted for Obama seem tobe the same as mine. I am still not willing to give up on him if we still have to be in these wars, they might be to difficult to give up. In for a penny, in for a pound some say.....

Isn't tightening the belt the only answer you come up with? Please post exactly your answer for what could help us beyond that, since you seem to have all the answers. And please don't come back with, I don't know beyond belt adjustment. Apparently, that according to experts would not have worked. Then please, state your expertise in this area,..urg..Geithners ex-assistant, Lawrence's protege, something beyond, drill baby drill and all us hethens need to follow the bible, then the world would magically be wonderful. Past practises apparently would not work as well. I trust people who have the expertise to know what the choice we need to make say and I definitely know MY limitations, otherwise I would be making Gates money using this skills. Since you seem to be the expert, enlighten us all with fact, not religion, but fact since us Democrats know nothing about loving and our country enough to think long term.

Please take religion out of this equation for capability of POTUS. I stated why liberals don't care for Palin or some of those reasons. If you are going to ask the question,listen to the answer and debate, please debate with facts. We are talking about Palin, not Obama, not McCain but about Palin. She is unqualified in most American eyes to be the POTUS. If she started now, she might be eligible to be taken seriously in 2026. I doubt it but, let her give it a try. First impressions are a muther. But I am all for people trying, but please lets not make it a religious thing, because it is not. It's about a competent thing, of which she is sorely lacking. Sorry, I like Palin, because she is my age and she is cute, but that is all, just a cute lady who got pulled onto the dance floor, but couldn't dance.