ouroborous

Definitely hard to know what the right thing to do is, since the surgery. I have to deal with what my body says I should do (and trust me folks, it's unmentionable in a PG forum like this!) versus "the right thing to do" which is often very different

Thanks for the replies I'm going to Hawaii in a few months, and I'm glad I don't have to feel TOO ashamed to go snorkeling without a shirt (aside from the pale Caucasian skin glare factor! I *do* live in Seattle, after all...)

You're only done when you give up. I thought I was done at 250, then I switched it up and cut out the carbs. Then I thought I was done at 240, but I kicked up the exercise. Now, at 216, I know that I have a LONG way to go before I'm "done." It has much more to do with my head than with my body.

Yeah, about a year after my surgery, once my hormones started normalizing, I actually got *ahem* "morning wood" for the first time in just about EVER. I was like "now what the hell am I supposed to do with THIS?!" It's far less fun than it sounds. And yes, exercise helps! Except for all those gals at the gym... don't think about that, just do a few more reps... wow, she's got a really nice... NO, ONE MORE REP! ...and on it goes...

Trust me, it's worse for us guys. About six months after surgery, I started getting seriously horny for the first time in... ever, really... and it's just kept on from there. At 41 years old, it's slightly embarrassing, but at least I'm old enough to know how to handle it. Er, that sounded bad. You know what I mean... Bottom line, once your body starts working correctly -- once every heartbeat and breath isn't a struggle against fat that's trying to kill you -- it starts saying "oh, sex, right... yeah... I LIKE sex!" It can be... unnerving...

I had a friend with cholesterol levels in the >300 range, and she was trim and fit. In her case it was genetic; her liver simply produced too much of the stuff (we make our own, since we need SOME cholesterol to live). You should talk to your doc about genetic causes and see if there's some kind of treatment.

*laugh*

Yeah, I've learned (the hard way) to limit alcohol intake since the sleeve. Among other things, these days I'm a light weight -- literally!

Nope, just an interested layman I read science news every day (http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/) and have a subscription to Scientific American. How geeky is that??

So, looking at this diet, it seems very "paleo" -- if you're eating like this, you're eating: Very high Protein -- a good thing, especially for us sleevers. Not to the point of Atkins -- which is bad, and taking a good thing too far -- but maybe South Beach-y, which is a good, solid, sensible plan Very high complex carbohydrates -- another good thing. Most Americans do NOT get enough vegetables (and no, potatoes don't count!) Very high Water (more on this in a moment) Now, dramatic short term weight loss is only possible in two cases: Significant anorexia. "Anorexia" is actually a medical term, not a disease (technically, the disorder is "anorexia nervosa" -- or "mental" anorexia). Anorexia just means that you're eating too little, medically speaking. And it's not healthy! When you're anorexic, your body begins to do all sorts of things to conserve energy, including switching from burning fat stores to burning muscle stores. It will even begin to metabolize brain matter over time, if the anorexia is significant and prolonged enough. Medical anorexia is not a good thing. Fluid loss. Yup, good old "water weight." My guess is that if you lose more than a pound or two over five days (on this diet or on ANY diet), it is primarily water weight. Five days is simply not enough time for your body to become anorexic enough to have burned any significant amount of fat (especially the stubborn superficial fat that most of us are concerned with). With this diet, since you're eating almost no highly-processed food, you're eating very little salt (at least compared to "normal" Americans, who eat way, way, way too much salt). And as a result, your tonicity -- water/mineral -- balance will shift. In an attempt to maintain homeostasis (fancy medical speak for "keeping things in balance"), your body will dump water so that your salt concentration doesn't get too low. Drinking lots of water will flush out more minerals, but you have to be careful. Over the long term, I believe that drinking double the daily recommended water (64oz is recommended) coupled with this very low-sodium diet might be dangerous (I'd ask a doctor about it); it could introduce a hyponatremic state -- dangerously low sodium. This can kill you (google "hyponatremia" or "water intoxication" if you don't believe me that drinking too much water can kill you). Over the short term, what you'll do is DUMP water in order to maintain your salt tonicity, so if you drop a lot of weight in five days due to this diet, I'd suspect that it's almost entirely water weight. That being said, minus the excessive water intake -- my nut. was emphatic that over the long term I was to consume no more than 60 oz. per day -- I think that this would be a Very Healthy Diet. You'd have to introduce some fruit (a low level of fruit intake is important for maintaining levels of Vitamin C and some flavanoids), and you'd want to make sure that your Fiber intake balanced the protein intake for bowel health, but if you could stick with it, I think this diet would be a great way to keep steady healthy fat loss. Couple it with a good exercise program, and you'd be on track for a very healthy body.

Well, I'm going to Hawaii at the end of March, and I've been meaning to take some "after" pictures for a while, so maybe I'll take the fun in the sun as an opportunity to snap a couple. I have a "before" shot of me in boxers, and it's just... horrific. I'm hoping to get down to 215 by then... should be doable if I stick with the program!

Well, I've been frustrated with the fact that since the end of last summer I'd gained ten pounds. My weight at the end of the summer was 215, and by September it had shot up to as high as 225! What's worse is that this weight has been stubborn to lose again. After six months, I'm back down to 219, despite doing cardio every day, going to the gym five days a week for weights, and being mindful of my food. The frustrating thing is that I was at 219 on the same day in November, so I'm just treading water! But it turns out that that's not entirely the whole picture. I use the scale at the gym, which measures body fat and skeletal muscle percentage. It's pretty accurate, so I usually just pay attention to the weight numbers and ignore the BF% and so on. Yesterday I actually wrote down my body fat and muscle percentages, and compared them to November. When I looked at the numbers and did the math, things looked much better. My body fat percentage dropped from 24.2% in November to 22.7% yesterday. My skeletal muscle rose from 35.5% to 36.3% during the same time period. I did the math, and that means that since November 18, I've lost about 3 lbs of fat and gained about 2 lbs of muscle. So even though my WEIGHT didn't change, my body composition has changed significantly from fat to muscular. And the nice thing is that that change will synergize; more muscle will make it easier to burn more fat, etc. So, the moral of the story is, I guess, don't just look at the numbers on the scale (or your BMI, which is really just based upon your height and those same scale numbers). If you're not measuring body fat percentage with something like an electroresistive scale or (better) a dunk tank, you may actually be doing better than you think!

How bizarre. In 18 months, I've gone from an XXL (bordering on XXXL) everywhere with a 46 (going on 48) inch jeans waistline, to XL in the shoulders, L bordering on M in the waist, and M for undershorts. And my jeans are 36 inch waist, and that's getting a little baggy; I can now fit into 34's without too much work, and I expect to be comfortably wearing 34's by the summer (doubt I'll get much smaller than that, since that's basically my hip bones!) I've basically gone from being shaped like a giant jiggling amorphous blob to having the classic male "inverted wedge" shape with a tiny little stubborn tummy roll (I HATE you, jelly roll, I hate you! I do crunches and obliques EVERY SINGLE DAY and yet still you persist...). I seriously NEVER expected that I could look in the mirror and LIKE what I see. It just didn't occur to me. I find that my self-criticism is having a hard time lately; since it can't point at all my rolls and rolls of fat, it's having to do things like point out that I'm getting older (see! you have a sprinkling of silver at your temples! see! there's a faint visible line on your brow! old man!) and the last little bits of fat (see! there's a jelly roll at your tummy and especially on your flanks... FATTY!). In some ways that's sad that I talk like that to myself (but don't we all, secretly?) but in some ways it's kinda comical that this little sad cynical part of me is having a harder and harder time finding things to complain about! I've gone from being utterly invisible to the female gender; an "LJBF" (let's just be friends) kinda guy -- friendly, smart, nice, but sexy? no... To having the very cute 20-something barristas at the local coffee shop openly flirting with me (a 40-something guy!) whenever I go in. In fact, that's one change I have a hard time dealing with, since -- at the tender young age of 41 -- I have almost zero experience in dealing with women reacting to me physically -- you know, as a male -- as opposed to simply emotionally or mentally. The idea that some woman might think I'm physically "hot" -- well, that's a completely new experience to me. I'm not Brad Pitt, but you know... I'm not bad looking! That's an utterly novel feeling for me. But I like it, and better late than never! I went from being unable to walk more than a couple of blocks without being in excruciating pain from sore feet, sore knees, and chafing thighs... from being unable to stand up for any length of time because it made my lower back hurt... from being unable to run for more than a couple dozen feet without becoming EXTREMELY winded... to being a guy who hits the gym five days a week for weights. A guy who walks 2.5 miles every day without breaking more than a light sheen of sweat (and that's at about 4mph, up a rather steep hill half the way). A guy who runs -- RUNS! -- for five minutes to warm up for his workouts, and is seriously considering whether or not he could actually, you know, RUN for exercise in the mornings (when it's not so goddawful cold, anyway). I mean, who IS this guy? I've gone from a heart attack waiting to happen, high blood pressure on the border of needing medication, diabetes any day now, zero energy, zero libido, always sick to never sick, perfect blood pressure (104/68!), perfect blood sugar numbers, almost zero risk of heart attack, high energy with the libido of a teenager. All this is in the course of 18 short months. I haven't worn a 34 inch waist since elementary school. I haven't been a "normal" weight since, well, ever. It's easy to lose track of it since it's the new normal (oh and, hint to guys getting older: the gym is your FRIEND!) but when I look back on how much things have changed in less than two years, it's just... astounding. It's like I've lived my life as two different people -- and folks, that first guy sucked. I just had to share that because I know all too well just how easy it is to become so focused on the negatives (and let's face it, if you look hard enough, you'll ALWAYS be able to find something about your body that you don't like) and overlook the incredible, unbelievable, amazing positives.

Yeah, this sort of stunned me, too; now I feel like men take me a lot more seriously. Dunno what that's all about, but it's not unwelcome, either. People really see you as a completely different person when you're in shape vs. obese. It shouldn't be that way; we should judge everyone by their merits (brains, humor, kindness, etc.) But the cold hard facts of the matter are: looks -- and weight is a huge part of "looks" -- really are important in this society. My feeling is that I can either rant and rave about how that shouldn't be the case -- and achieve nothing, and be miserable -- or I can just do what I can to look the best I can, and enjoy the rewards.

Thanks for all the kind replies, folks. I just felt like I needed to post a little positive thinking after realizing today that I don't stop to smell the roses often enough...

Ah, well, I guess that's the difference between men vs. women. Before I lost the weight, women would always be friendly, but never show any interest of their own. I would never get a woman "making the first move." Now it happens regularly. I don't want to act like I'm some kind of swingin' super stud -- I'm not; I'm still basically a shy, nerdy guy who's far happier with a book than at a sports bar. But just because I'm not "Austin Powers" doesn't mean I don't want a hint of "James Bond" in my life... On the other hand, men are socialized to be aggressive and make the first move, so I can see where going from zero to... full on over-the-top male attention might be... overwhelming. But hopefully you'll get used to it; do what I do, just smile, enjoy the attention, and move on. And, I guess, if they don't take no for an answer, tell them where they can shove it...

I would say that the hardest part of this entire journey is really getting used to the fact that I'm just not that guy anymore (ya know, that fat, depressed, invisible, un-sexy, out-of-breath, exhausted, sick guy; if you substitute "gal" in there, I bet it might hold true for some of you ladies, too!) That's what really amazes me most, and that's what I have to fight with, literally every day. I'm not that guy anymore, and I'm never going to be him again.

Well, I live "here" (WA state) and I think we wasleevers have to stick together.

Thank you for the replies. My current weight this morning is 223. According to the BMI charts, "ideal weight" for a 6'1" man with a "large frame" tops out at 192 lbs (! this seems crazy-skinny for a large-built 6'1" man, but maybe having been at 335 skewed my perception!) According to some sources I've seen online, I should be at "ideal weight + 10%" before considering a TT, so this would be around 210 max. Unfortunately, 210 is the magical "goal" I've been shooting for for some time; I got close towards the end of summer at 213, but then "something happened" (I swear, i didn't face plant into cakes and ice cream, and I actually ramped UP the exercise!) and now I'm up 10 lbs. I've stopped the gain, but now my weight is plateaued again at the higher weight. So, long story short, getting to and maintaining 210 seems almost unattainable. It's not like the beginning after VSG where I could fart and lose 20 lbs! Mini-Me: I'd love to believe that it's all loose skin, but it's not pinchable, if you know what I mean -- when I pinch a fold of it, there isn't just loose skin between my fingers, there's actual fat that I can feel. Obviously nothing like before the VSG, but still fat. And on my "flanks" (now I know what to call that area; apparently it's a really common trouble spot for me... the back "love handle" area) is the worst, that's where I'd like to slim down the most right now (it's the main reason I still wear "baggy" shirts, to avoid that "muffin top" look!), but apparently that area is just amazingly resistant to diet and exercise; either I have to go to almost superhuman weight loss lengths, or I have to think about surgical reduction. I know, I know, talk to a doctor -- it's always good advice. But just like with the VSG itself, I know that any surgery is a big deal, and I want to get as much input and advice from others as possible before I commit my body and 5-10 grand more of my money to an elective surgery. I really want to feel like I "look good" -- my health is SO much better now (my doctor is just speechless with how good all my results were from my last physical!), but now I'd like to really get to the point where I feel good about my appearance, not where I'm still feeling like I have to "hide" part of my body, ya know? I mean, I'm going to the gym five days a week and lifting weights, it sucks that I feel like I have to wear baggy clothes that hide all that new muscle, just to cover the stupid little "spare tire" that's left! (NB: also going through my mind is that I am "only" 41, and the younger I am when doing this surgery, the better the results will be from the standpoint of recovery, risks, healing, and final outcome.)

This is near and dear to my heart, but I think I may be the only man on this board talking about plastic surgery (I'm not sure if that makes me vain, or just more honest than most men!) I agree that getting the WLS and then not fixing the loose skin is kinda silly, from a vanity point of view -- of course, the WLS alone is still a huge win from a health point of view. Most of the fat that I have left is in my "spare tire," and most of the skin around my midsection is loose. I'm lucky that I don't have loose skin in almost any other area -- chest, arms, legs. I've been fortunate in that, as a man, I can pump Iron at the gym until my arms and legs and chest are full of muscle, not fat and loose skin. However, with the tummy, the more you work out, the smaller it gets and the worse things might look! So, at almost two years out, I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to do it and more and more, when I'm going to do it. I want to get the loose skin removed, but I also want to get the remaining fat around my midsection removed. Any comments on that would be welcome; is that a liposuction? Does it add significantly to the cost/recovery time/risk? I only ask because that's really the last, most stubborn bit of fat for me; I can't seem to lose it! Up until now, my default answer has been to wait, put it off, because I always thought I could lose more, or that my skin would tighten up on its own. But I think I'm hitting reality now; there's only so much skin can tighten up, on its own, and the last ten or fifteen pounds of fat are the hardest, so waiting until I'm at "perfect" weight means I could be waiting nearly forever...

I do cardio and weights five days a week. Before the sleeve, I was lucky if it was five days a year. Honestly, I need to ramp up and do more/more intense cardio, to break the stall I'm currently in (I have another 20 pounds to lose, and it's stubborn!)

Oil can help to moisturize skin, and when skin is both loose and dry it gets the "crepe paper" consistency that we all hate. Moisturizers don't "fix" loose skin, but they can make it look less... well... gross. But yeah, now that I'm approaching two years out from my surgery, I'm coming to believe that surgery is the only option to remove significant amounts of loose skin. Small problem areas may fix themselves -- skin DOES resorb over time, to an extent dependent upon genetics and age -- and you can build muscle underneath some problem areas to give the skin something to reattach to. But for significant amounts of loose skin -- like most of us have/had around our belly -- surgery is pretty much the only realistic "fix."

PSSC was amazing. Their level of care and follow-up was phenomenal; I can't recommend them highly enough. As to hotels, I don't know (I live locally, so I didn't look -- I just came home after the surgery). I'd just check on Yelp or something, I'm sure that there's something!