L8BloomR

The ACLU has damaged the Boy Scouts and too many other wonderful organizations to mention. But they fight for the right of the ManBoyLove organization to continue their vile work to make pedephilia acceptable. I'm sorry, but I think they do much more harm than good. As usual, we don't see eye to eye on this.... as I would much rather have George Bush make policy than anyone from the ACLU (shudder). No surprise there, eh BJean? :heh:

The American Civil Liberties Union and other leftist or atheist groups have been systematically dismantling every Christian symbol and every mention of God anywhere that it can in this country. They have gotten teachers fired for wearing a small cross on a chain around their neck or for reading a Bible quietly while their students take a test. They have gotten crosses off of county seals and taken manger scenes and historic crosses away from public property. They are the reason that stores are afraid to say "Merry Christmas" to their customers. So just WHO is bullying WHO into submission? The vast majority of people are not offended by these things and, in fact, enjoy them. I have not seen Christians force atheists to pray or worship anything. They would just like the freedom to enjoy what they did before. The right to view Christmas symbols, wear their religious jewelry to work, and read what they choose. No one is demanding that other religions not display their symbols. The agenda of the ACLU and others is very transparent to me, because while they dispise all things Christian, they defend the rights of Muslims, Jews, and others to wear, read, display anything they want. Abortion and embryonic stem cells are another issue entirely. I see them as value issues at least as much as Christian issues. Many non-Christians are against abortion, also. If they see value in any human life, especially innocent and unborn, then they should be against the taking of it. I don't think they are trying to force this on others, anymore than I think that pro-abortion people are trying to force "killing" on the rest of us. Both sides just feel the need to stand up for it.

Mark: I think the problem in this discussion is that we view some words differently. I think of "Christian values" as universal and good, i.e. kind, helpful, charitable, etc. "Core values" means the same to me. I am not talking about denominations and maybe that is what is troubling you. The founding fathers came from countries that repressed and punished people for their faith. They saw their individual rights, property, fruits of their labors taken from them. Christianity is about the dignity of the individual, and I believe they got their ideas to form a free country from those beliefs. I appreciate the separation of church and state. I am not suggesting that prayer or a particular religion be forced on anyone. EVER. But the fact is that the Christian values of the earliest Americans helped them make a unique, generous and welcoming country. I can understand that if one does not have a belief in God, it can sound worrisome to hear that. But I think our history has shown that no one is forced to believe in anything. It is also interesting to note that in communist countries the opposite is/was true. Believers were forced to renounce their belief in God or die. The leaders of those countries knew that a person with a strong belief in God could never give over all their allegiance to them. I think maybe the founding fathers knew that also. Let me reiterate---the word "God" or "Creator" is a benign word. They use it in Alcoholics Anonymous and other self-help groups. It does not imply a religion, or force a belief. I think it is used more as a universal code for "something bigger than ourselves", or "a benevolent force that cares about us." Of course, particular religions view it in their own ways, but I don't think the word should make anyone afraid. I hope I explained this better than before.... it is such a difficult subject to discuss via the internet. Thanks for your input.

I think that is one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me on this board. Thank you, BJean. Coming from you makes it even nicer.

OOOPS, our posts crossed again!! :faint:I think I will stop posting now and let them catch up to each other... Yes, we do respect each other--- no debate there, Bjean!

Sorry, BJean, I responded to your first post before I saw the second one. I do appreciate your feelings in the second post. Yes, people in Israel do live in scary times, yet they are so strong and courageous. While I agree that the Christians living there make a good argument for both sides of this issue, I sort of admire the Israeli's strong stance regarding their Jewish heritage. By letting nothing weaken or water that down, they stay united. It is what keeps them together in crisis. When I look on a map and see how truly tiny they are, surrounded by so many large and menacing enemies, I am amazed at their tenacity.

C'mon, BJean, you know that was not what I was saying. Post away to your heart's content. I just don't like to see my words twisted into something else in order to spark debate, and so I responded.

I think you need to call the doctor.... I haven't heard of this ever. Fluids should go down fairly smoothly and your problems, if any, should be with food. It is never a good idea to get dehydrated and if you are feeling thirsty you need to do something about this. Good luck and keep us posted!

BJean: You are taking a simple comment I made to Green about secular government and turning it into a debate. For instance, I never said that a manger scene was not Christian, or that people come to this country because we used the word "God" in our documents. I merely said that when this country was founded, God was important to most of the principles involved, and they used that belief to create humane rules and laws that were appealing to many people who subsequently decided to come here. I believe that the word "God" in those documents was benign and would not be offensive to any religious person. I discuss "God" with my Jewish and Muslim friends all the time. They are not offended, as we all believe there is only one God, even if we think of Him in our own unique way. Along that same line, anyone coming to the U.S. probably understands a bit of our history, our Christian roots, etc. Why should a Buddist or Muslim feel offended that we don't share their country's culture? We have a history and a culture of our own that tries to include everyone, but we have to have some core. Can you imagine going to Iran and demanding that they take down their religious symbols because you find them offensive? And my Jewish girlfriend who lives in Israel says that it is against the law to display manger scenes or to hand out Christian bibles. They even arrange their streets so that they don't form a cross! Yet many Christians live there, without anger or making demands. I don't think I am wrong for thinking that our country should be proud of how we started, who we are and what we have accomplished. We are a most inclusive and welcoming country, but we do not have to give up our soul to try to please everyone. As you know, that is impossible.

Of course this goes for all religions! And the word "God" does not imply the Christian God. Most other religions speak of "God", also. Yes, I know that the "under God" in our Pledge of Allegiance was added in the 1950s. But from the earliest days of our country we have incorporated the word "God" into many of our most important documents. The Declaration of Independence states that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights..." Why, since it was OK for 200 years, are we now being pressured to take that word out of so many things? Those words helped make our nation something unique and special, and the kind of place people wanted to come to. So now we need to change it to please a segment of the population? What about the segment that WANTS the word there? Don't they count? It doesn't "bother" me, I just don't understand why it needs to be changed. If I lived in England and a group of people who don't like the monarchy demanded the Queen's picture be taken off the money, I would feel the same.

Uh, Green, where did you hear this? I haven't heard of any such attack to make this a declared "Christian" country. There are many Christians trying to hold on to our long-time traditions of keeping the word "God" on our money and in our Pledge, and to maintain the right to have religious displays at Christmas, etc., but that is the only thing I have heard. The only attack I have seen is from the other side, specifically the ACLU, which has successfully gotten rid of displays on public property.

Thanks for that explanation, Green. I find myself agreeing with you here, if only as a second option... At this point in time, pharmacists can be arrested for not dispensing "morning after pills", even when it goes against their religious beliefs. There may be punishments for other professionals not wanting to be involved in the abortion process (I'm not sure), but in any case the idea of not forcing anyone to be involved if they find it morally repugnant is a great one.

I actually agree with you here and it is the one conflicting emotion I have about doing away with legal abortions. I don't know the answer, although the fact that women still die in legal abortions, as well as childbirth, makes me feel that there can be no perfect solution. I don't think abortion is the main reason for the inhumanity of the world, but I do think it contributes. What I have noticed growing over the years is the intense focus on self...and I think we have lost some of our ability to think in terms of self-sacrifice because of it. I appreciate your input and willingness to understand other viewpoints. There is no easy answer to this, if any answer at all, but it does give us a good forum to exchange ideas and that benefits us all.

Mark: In several previous posts, the suggestion was made that pro-life or Christian people should not try to influence abortion policy. That was what I was referring to by the "stifling" remark. And while I understand what you are saying regarding abortion, you didn't address the suicide issue. Again, a person is taking a life. If you would try to help that person, then you are interferring with their wishes for their own bodies. Our government interfers with our bodies in many ways. Why is this way off limits? Remember, for 200 years, abortion was not legal. One could argue that NON-religious people foisted their "idiology" on the rest of us and changed what had been considered right and the norm. Where do you see Christians doing this now? Abortion is still legal, and even though there is much debate, it has not been abolished. In my opinion, society and the lives of children have not improved with the legality of abortion. Every week, sometimes every DAY we hear of another mother killing her kids. In this latest one, the mother left her babies in the car while she worked. When she came out and found them dead from the heat she drove home, put the kids in trash bags, put the bags under the sink, then went out to get a sandwich. How dead are you inside when you can do that? I believe that abortion and the ease with which we can dispose of our problems has cheapened life and is creating many soulless people. I wish I didn't see it that way, but I can't help that my heart grieves for what we are losing.

Green: As usual, you give a reasoned and honest response, thank you. But I must disagree with this part of your post. If only secular people can make decisions regarding policy in our country, we wouldn't have a country, at least not like we do have. The founders were almost all Christians; God and our "God-given rights" were very important and played a huge part in the structure of our laws and Constitution. We were given "freedom OF religion", not FROM religion. Meaning we could believe and worship any way we saw fit. Most people here profess to a belief in God, though their particular religions or idiology vary. It appears that you are stating that those of us holding a particular religious view should not be allowed to have input on laws and policy making. Are you saying that religious people can not be trusted to make sound policy, or to see the whole picture? We live here too, pay taxes too, and have a vested interest in seeing our country be as sound as possible. To suggest that only atheists can decide for the rest of us is unbelievable. Or maybe I am not understanding correctly what you are stating?

We all have a belief system; the prism through which we make judgements and form opinions. Whether you choose to believe in a Creator or chose to not believe in one, you are still "believing" something. Why should those of us who believe in God have to stifle ourselves for the sake of those who believe He does not exist, while the non-believers can feel free to "enlighten" the rest of us without question? I choose to believe in God. It makes me a better person, more balanced and more "other"-oriented. Many of the people I see who do not believe in God believe in things that I think are harmful: the belief that they are the center of the universe; that what they think or what they want is of utmost importance; in having fun at any cost. They make the environment a religion, the pursuit of pleasure their god. It is not up to me to judge them, I would just not want to be them. And I do not want them to judge me. It is the smug and intolerant tone of some of these posts towards Christians or anyone believing in God that I find offensive. Christians are accused of being intolerant but I find it much more obvious coming from the other side. Why is it so hard to see that to a Christian, abortion is not just about a woman's body? The baby is a separate entity. Different in every way. Just because it needs the womb to "incubate" and grow does not take away its human-ness. Our society absolutely tells people what they can and cannot do with "their" bodies. Not only can we not steal, rape, murder, or yell "Fire!" in a theater, we cannot do some things involving only our own selves: downloading or viewing child pornography, for example. And attempting suicide will get you arrested and institutionalized. Is there anyone here who could see a person holding a razor to their wrist or taking a bottle of pills or poison, and would not try to stop them? If you would, why? Aren't they free to do anything they want with "their own bodies"? If you would try to help them, good for you! You see them as someone about to make a huge and deadly decision based on something currently wrong in their lives. They are about to take a life that has value and meaning, if given a chance to get through the current problem. Exactly the way a pro-life person looks at a woman contemplating abortion....

Thanks, BJean, I think you are right....

Green: Huh? Was this a response to my post? I don't think I was being judgemental, just explaining "free will"... Late: Thanks, I appreciate that.

So, God "condones" serial killings, the Holocaust, genocide in Darfur and elsewhere, mass rapes, tortures, etc., because he knew it was going to happen but he doesn't stop it?? Please!! God gave man a free will, and even though He knew that some would abuse it terribly, He knows that others will use it wisely in order to please Him and better the world. Christians believe we will all have to account, one day, for the way we used or misused His gift of free will.

I think it is the same with both cats and dogs. So the best bet is to switch them slowly. A few bits of the new food with the old, then a few spoons, than 1/3, then 1/2 and so forth. This usually works for my dogs, all with very sensitive stomachs!! Good luck :nervous

Glad to hear you are better, charsweb. Yes, I have heard that PB'ing can cause swelling around the band. Hope things continue to go well for you!

Just wanted to clarify one thing from my previous post.... My friend who had all the abortions had them before I met her. I, like Green, do not deal well with people who continue making the same mistakes again and again, especially when a baby is involved. I just couldn't be close to someone like that. When I met my friend, she was a wounded thing.... empty and sad. She turned to me and our friendship grew from there. So no one nominate me for sainthood because of my non-judgemental ways.....

If you are feeling "a little restriction" at 6cc, then I think you will feel plenty of it with your next fill! I never felt any restriction at 6cc, but at 7cc, wow!! Keep the faith....I have not heard of anyone getting their band filled to the max and still not feeling it. :eek:

I also have 3 dogs and NO time to cook for them! I appreciate this link and will check it out further. Currently, I have been feeding my dogs Eagle Pack brand dog food.... it is made in this country and has not had any recalls. It is featured in many holistic-type dog publications as one of their top picks. But this link you posted sounds even better. Thanks for posting!

I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling and stating a harsher attitude towards women who are so out of control that they abuse their bodies, their lives and/or their babies. Or allow themselves to be abused again and again. I am glad you state your opinion. So many wrongs are never righted because we stay silent or look the other way..... Good for you for learning from your mistakes and not being afraid to expect others to do so, also! :clap2: