L8BloomR

I don't know Mr. Moore and I doubt you do, either. So neither one of us can know his motives... what made him change his views. I think that the argument can be made that he learned more info and did more research and that made him favor a different way than he did earlier. You have obviously decided he "sold out", but that sounds like sour grapes to me. It is human nature for one side to deride and belittle someone who leaves their side to go to another; it happens in politics all the time. So just as you have decided that you don't want to be fooled again and want to look at all sides of the issues (which I admire and try to do myself), you have to give the other person (like Mr. Moore) the same respect to do the same...even if that person's research leads him in an opposite direction than yours. If Mr. Moore was applauded as a great thinker when he started Greenpeace, did he suddenly turn stupid and ignorant when he changed his mind?

And I suppose there are no liberal corporations or political groups misdirecting the public? You have got to be kidding!! Please do some research....and start with G.E. (don't forget they own NBC who is doing more "green" programing than anyone else..... but the list goes on and on.) And Republicans also drink the water and breathe the air, so to imply that we don't care about the environment is just wrong. We just disagree with the hysteria and the "religion" that environmental issues have become. Of course there is nothing wrong with living "green"---that is great and something we should all do no matter what because it will clean up the planet. But this thread had become about whether or not the man-made global warming debate is a done deal, and my point was that for many people, it is not. Do you know who Patrick Moore is? He was co-founder of Greenpeace. He disagrees with the current "belief" that global warming is man-made. Would you call him a Republican with an agenda? People keep trying to make this a liberal/conservative or Republican/Democrat issue, but I don't see it like that. Some people are just quicker to jump on the bandwagon than others. And since many good and intelligent people are still disagreeing on the answer, many of us aren't ready to make that leap just yet. Kat: Your Dad sounds like my dad!! I used to hear that all the time when growing up. Still is great advice. Thanks for the memories....

The point of my post was that there are way too many people with differing, conflicting studies regarding global warming to consider the debate "over". I have posted links and articles on recent studies by scientists who vehemently disagree with the current conclusions being promoted by the mainstream. And as for bias, if you have watched any of the History Channel's "documentaries" on this subject, or seen the not-so-subtle promotion of the theory in a Disney animation, you are seeing G.E., the owners of these companies, promoting THEIR bias....as they own the patent on expensive "green" technology that will pay off nicely if we all switch to alternate forms of energy. There is nothing wrong with someone having an opinion one way or another, I just don't like the idea that only one side has all the answers, especially when it is obvious to many of us that there may be many reasons and answers that apply.

Thanks for posting this, Elenation. This is just one of many, many studies done by scientists and meteorologists who believe that even if global warming is real, it very well may not be man-made. Many of these scientists are being fired, ignored, or silenced in other ways. In fact, the founder of The Weather Channel calls the theory "the biggest scam ever perpetrated on society" and he has been excoriated by many of his fellow meteorologists for saying so. It always makes me wonder: If man-made global warming is such a proven "fact", why fear further studies, scrutiny, or discussion with others? Al Gore will not attend debates on the subject and, as the above article states (and as I have read in many other places), a scientist can lose his/her grant if they don't follow the politically-correct global warming agenda. I have posted links before on this subject, here is another: Challenge to Scientific Consensus on Global Warming: Analysis Finds Hundreds of Scientists Have Published Evidence Countering Man-Made Global Warming Fears Anyway, I appreciate Elenation, Gadgetlady, and the other posters who don't just accept one side of this debate. There are just too many discrepancies to consider it "case-closed", IMO.

Hi!! I am sooooo excited!! Last month I posted about how upset I was with my insurance co., PacifiCare. I was motivated and had preliminary approval for surgery, when they suddenly demanded I do a 6-month online "diet" program before they would give final approval. I tried every which-way to get them to reconsider, but was told "no exceptions". But suddenly yesterday, out-of-the-blue, I got the final authorization in the mail, and today I got my surgery date----YES!! :clap2: I will become an official Member of the Band on Nov. 8. I can't wait! LBT has been so inspirational to me and I have loved hearing all the success stories. Thank you all for the wonderful job you do of sharing and encouraging... I hope to finally give back some of it when I start my Band journey to a better life. Soon!! Karen (I can't stop smiling!):dance:

I don't think it is a question of how much you weigh, it is probably more a question of how overweight you are. I was almost 100 pounds overweight and was approved for the band (and for gastric bypass, as well.) I was told that to get banded you must be at least 75 pounds overweight, or have major health issues. I started this thread when I was told I had to do a 6-months online diet program even though I have battled weight for many years and it was documented by my doctor. Then suddenly Pacificare HMO approved the surgery one month into the program! I think it is a great idea to start this process now before you get heavier or have more health problems. I have found Pacificare to be very good at covering the needed tests, surgery and post-surgical care. They covered my fills for 1 year, but now I need to get authorization before I get additional ones. Good luck with your band journey! I hope you have as good an experience with Pacificare as I did. Keep us posted!

"I just wish....", also, Elena. Great post!

<p> </p> <p> </p> <p>You may not have said my name, but you brought up what I had just posted.... I didn't say you were getting personal, I just was bothered by being accused of saying something I didn't say and then basing a whole post against it. I think that happens all too often here. We see something within a post that hits us wrong and we jump on it, instead of reading the whole thing and looking for the bigger message. I have been guilty of it, and so have many others. And I do believe that "harshness" is in the eye of the beholder. Seems to me that most of the harshest statements come from the opposite side.... But the opposite side would disagree, I'm sure.</p>

Your posts are "right on", Elena.... you said it like it is!

:clap2::clap2::clap2:

Well, this is what I was trying to answer last night. You say this is a true story of someone, but since I don't know this person, I was trying to find out more about him. I hate taking anyone's word about anything until I try to learn it myself. I'm funny that way. As far as this scenario, what I can say is that anyone who survived a concentration camp is brave and deserves respect. Anyone who studies and learns enough to become a doctor also deserves respect. As for the rest, it would depend on so many factors to answer that. It would depend on the procedure, the reasons the law is against it, and so many other things. Quack doctors think all sorts of things are good and necessary, but many others would disagree. In the U.S., a doctor who performs "mercy killings" thinks he has invented something that is useful and beneficial and humanitarian, but there is a huge debate on that and currently he is not allowed to practice. You could say many of the same good things about him, also. I would not call him courageous for the killings he has done, although I can sympathize with the people who think so. So that is why this scenario does not have a quick "yes" or "no" answer to it and needed more information. If you are talking strictly about abortion and this doctor, again, since I am not for abortion, I probably would not use the word "courageous" to describe him, but I can say that it sounds like he has done alot of important things with his life and I am sure he thinks he is doing the right things. Does that answer the question?

Excuse me for the "snail's pace".... I didn't know this was a race and I am at work and can only write when things are calm around me. Currently I have workmen in my office taking apart my lighting. I will get to your next post and try to answer, if you can stay awake long enough.

Again, another attack.... I can't even remember what the questions were that you asked, and why they pertain to this discussion. If you want to re-ask them, please do. I don't have the time to hunt down and sift through all the negative stuff to find them.

Look in the mirror. I asked you to show me where I said what you continually accused me of saying, but you never did. You just chose a new attack. And if you would actually read what I wrote in my response, you would see that it was taking me a long time to respond to anything because I was constantly being interrupted at home. By the time I finished trying to learn something about the discussed abortion doctor, write my response and submit it, I discovered about 7 more posts from both you and Rob, in which you were demanding I answer your "hypothetical situations" and making fun of my lack of response to them. Posts I hadn't even read yet, but that didn't occur to you, apparently. I have never had anyone attack me like that on LBT. It was mean and childish and completely unnecessary, as I would have gotten to your hypotheticals with my next post. But I didn't see any need to try to continue the discussion after that because it was apparent that you weren't interested in learning or discussing, just in one-upmanship at any cost. I'm not interested.

Just to clarify, Green, the quote you attributed to me came from MariposaBella. In quoting her post in mine, I couldn't get it to highlight as hers and so it looks like it came from me. Hopefully, that won't happen again with this quote from you. Green, I love the way you expressed yourself in this post. Believe it or not, I agree with everything you said! I appreciate your understanding of the maternal feelings so many of us have here...it helps so much to have that acknowledged during debates such as this. And I think most of us also can understand that feeling of "uh, oh, I'm pregnant" and the nervous, maybe even desperate feelings we can have, too. Your last line, though, really sums up why we discuss this over and over, and why I think we will continue to, unfortunately. Pro-lifers choose the child, pro-choicers choose the mother. Both sides feel compelled to try to protect the rights of the side they have chosen. I know that the solution appears to be "do nothing", and to not force either side to do what they are uncomfortable with. The only problem with that for pro-lifers is that they see the innocent unborn as the losers in that scenario. Yet I can admit that forcing others to do what they are uncomfortable with is also not a perfect solution. I don't have the answer... I can only hope that by discussing this again and again we can at least increase the understanding between both sides and discard the bitterness and hatred.

[quote name=Mariposa Bella;643911 I am pro-life. I have held two of my own babies lifeless bodies in my arms. I don't understand how anyone could take a childs life. My son died at 24 weeks' date=' he weighed 1 lb 4 oz and my daughter died at birth, she weighed 5 lbs 7 oz. They were so beautiful. If you have never endured a loss so great as this and felt the pain, you are very blessed. I am fortunate and very blessed to now have 3 awesome kids. I thank God for them everyday. I loved each of my five children from the moment they were conceived. Yes, I know the exact moment in which each one of my children were conceived. If you are a sexually active person and don't want to get pregnant, there are other/many options out there other than abortion..I have an aunt that chose to get an abortion due to an unwanted pregnancy and to this date she regrets that decision. She will forever be haunted by it. She has dreams of a child calling her name in her sleep. But it is too late, she chose to kill her child.[/quote] My heart breaks for you....what heartache you have had to endure. I know a little of what you feel. I lost a baby after 2 1/2 months of pregnancy and even though I never knew him/her, I still cry when I allow myself to think more than briefly about it. How much worse for you to know your little ones and lose them. I am so sorry. But I am so glad you have been blessed with 3 more. God is looking out for you, and I am so happy for you. Thank you for posting your story.

I am amazed at the level of sarcasm and mean spiritness coming from you. I don't owe you an answer in the amount of time you allot for it. I do research before I answer, and I have never shied away from answering anything. But I am also busy with my real life and can't spend unlimited/uninterrupted time always when I want. My DH comes in and out of the room when I am using the computer, also. So it can take a few minutes to get an answer typed. Sorry if you don't have anything else to do but attack others when they don't respond in the way you think they should. I always answer anyone who addresses me, but in this case, the "haha" stuff is too childish to even relate to. I don't post just to see my own words; I like thoughtful debate and civil exchanges. It is obvious that this had degenerated into something else. It is midnight here and I am done for the night.

Well, I have responded to your posts, and just did again. You, on the other hand, didn't respond to my long post yesterday on "religious criminals." I understand that most of us have jobs and lives outside of LBT, so I don't take it personally or think you are afraid to answer. I leave that paranoia to others to use as attacks. I just figure you are busy and will answer when and if you can.

I had never heard of this doctor until you mentioned him yesterday. I have tried to learn about him via the internet, and there is quite a bit of mixed info. He is admired on the atheist and pro-abortion websites, and disliked on the pro-life and some web news sites such as this one: Dr. Henry Morgentaler, $5-MILLION MAN This was an interesting hypothetical question but it can only be answered by those who are more familiar with this man and his life than I am.

Will you please show me where I said that doctors, or ANY doctor, should not earn money?? I haven't "dodged" anything.... I keep explaining and explaining to people who obviously want to put words in my mouth that were never said or implied. Again, for the last time: The comment was made that a particular abortion doctor was "courageous" for doing a late-term abortion. I merely said that he also earned money for it. There was no attack on the doctor, just a reminder that there could be other reasons for a doctor doing something beyond just being a brave guy. Obviously, there is nothing wrong with earning money....I do it myself! Sheeeeeesh.......

And your point makes no sense.... Have you even read the last page or two of this thread? I have no idea how this relates to my posts at all. Stating the obvious that doctors earn money for what they do was a way to make the point that an abortion doctor isn't somehow more altruistic than others. It was not an attack on anyone and certainly had nothing to do with patient wishes vs. my religion. WTH??

Hope you are having a great cruise, Gadgetlady! Thanks for checking in...

Again, beautiful post, StephC. Very honest. I agree with you on everything you said about God's love and expectations of us. And I hope you are saying "farewell" because you are going to bed, not because you are leaving us!!

I don't see where anyone said that abortion doctors do it only for the money. The comment was made that a doctor who performs a late-term abortion is somehow "courageous" and doing it for altruistic purposes. No proof was offered that this was the case, and for those of us who are in the medical field, we know that doctors get paid for everything they do, and therefore also know that "courageous" or not, this doctor is also getting paid. Making the debate about whether or not "all" doctors do their work merely for the money is a straw argument because no one is saying that and no one could prove that one way or the other.

What a beautiful and loving post, StephC. Your kids are lucky to have you...even with the spankings ! :biggrin1: