hmarko

Should add i have been messed up due to hiatal hernia/pouch dilation/slight slip this past year so we had to do complete unfills for 3 weeks and start over after the 2nd time around we decided there is a problem. Its a different feeling than the band working the right way - you never get stuck; but you get bad reflux. The tighter the worse the reflux but meanwhile i can still eat a ton (like the pizza for example) very bizarre; or chinese food noodles etc.

Hi Karebear: No I have worked well w/ my doctor so never thought about leaving and they are really one of the tops in their fields and yes you can die from too tight or get slips. What happens when you get too tight is you eat around it and maybe you are doing that to some degree already? Do you go thru your diet w/ him - he may be seeing that and assuming your on the tighter side because of it too. I am not the best example to ask about meal choices but when I was properly adjusted I would eat some fish and usually have no room for more. Or salads. I've been messed up for the last year and my eating habits have slipped. My pouch got dilated so I actually was able to have two slices of pizza and be overtight at the same time (mind you I did that 3 times in one month not daily) but this is what happens when you start running tight. My slip/hernia either happened due to being way too tight and thinking i can deal w/ it or a fall from my horse a few months after we will never know. Well I learned to not go there again the hard way - i couldn't take 3 bites w/o feeling the pressure way too tight. After that i ran into problems and it hasn't been the same. I NEVER PB'ed or slimed after this and this should have been a sign to me that something was wrong - the tight would show up in night reflux (I guess all that is a sign of pouch dilation). Live and learn - Revisions are no fun. So be careful. Can you try and eat some salmon w/ salad or veggies and see how you feel - those would move thru the band slower than what you described which might almost be a slider food? is 4-6 oz keeping u full for 4 hours? Or dark meat chicken? I was always ok w/ chicken breast lived on it a lot. One of my favorite things (in fact the takeout place is across the street and I can smell it i am STARVING as I am on full liquids after surgery!). I kinda learned my lesson on too tight so in a way I'm glad we did the plication and my doc knows that I ran too tight as well so she put in a control against that - that will teach me. Because I'm about 31 BMI or whatever my ticker says I am; it was not black and white to do surgery they don't like to do revisions. BUT at the same time I was still having fatty liver; and elevation of liver enzymes and a few dr's told me to lose more weight so that drove this decision a lot. Plus due to the complication i would not have been ever to have my band tight again so these things all happen from too tight.. Try and work w/ it some more there is no magic here it is work for us. You do need to be comfortable w/ you dr. Do they have a nutritionist in office or does anyone closer to you have that available?

Theresa I just had it done on April 9. I already had a lap band in 09 and lost a max of 72 lbs; this had to get revised due to a suspected hiatal hernia. To be honest the biggest focus of the conversation w/ my surgeon preop was whether to do the revision or not at all as I had already lost 60 lbs; with 30 lbs more to go. I stalled out last year because of this issue that needed correcting. We spent an hour discussing that and literally once I decided after being given the two options, she said she would also put two pleats in my stomach and showed me on the model in the office. She didn't really ask me if I wanted it, and I left it to her as well. But a revision is a different story than putting a new band in because you are already dealing with something that failed to work, so in a way there is a need to get more aggressive too if you want success. She was clear that this was in experimental stages but she spent more time discussing risks to a liver biopsy than the plication; and felt confident that the plication was a brilliant solution. My decision was whether to proceed w/ surgery; once that decision was made my surgeon took the best option to ensure success the second time around given my particular situation. I also had a liver biopsy and the replacement of a band is worse than putting a brand new one in but I felt 40 times worse this time than my first surgery. I am told its because of the adhesions and scar tissue they need to remove, when putting in a replacement band (and they couldn't reposition it due to the scarring so it became a bigger deal). The plication does seem to cause more cramping after the procedure and I suspect that is the cause of my still swollen tummy or maybe it is the liver biopsy don't know. On the bright site from what I am reading the phenomenon of bandster hell (that period when you are still too loose for the band to work) doesn't happen. I am almost a week out now; and I'm fine on protein shakes and soup but that could be due to swelling as well. It seems interesting but would I do it right now if I were putting a new lap band in? not sure its highly experimental. I've got two additional incision as they were able to do SILS w/ me the first time but this time they had to make the two incisions (not sure what drove that - was it due to revisions being more complex or the plication). just giving you as much info but I'm curious to hear what your doc is saying.

Thanks gingy - the Water weight is starting to come off slowly (did you know a gallon of IV's weights 8 lbs LOL I have some tummy cramps - the gas factor is better this time around overall (I had the left shoulder thing for weeks the first time - its gone after days this time); my abs are better this time around though the pain the first night was horrendous as I mentioned. They may not have done anything w/ the port which means my abs won't be totally shot too - feels like it. I think i may be ready to be on mushies soon starting to feel hungrier (we do liquids for 10 days). YES if a month out w/ no fills (which you have not had yet if i recall) you are full it is totally the plication! COOL! That is what I figured would happen! Fascinating stuff. Yea mine was tougher cuz of the revision mainly as they have to deal w/ scar tissue and get rid of it so its more invasive. The hernia i had last time too; the liver biopsy was unrelated to this but a great oppty to get it for other issues I've had (that would cause some ouchiness and the plication itself which is the cramping you experienced and I'm having now - when does that stop???) Having said that it is Day 6 and I feel like i am reaching a turning point of less pain.

Yes Dr Ren. WIll definitely keep you guys posted. The one thing i know is that I am in good hands and they are a great team over there - so whatever I'm faced w/ they can address. Will be interesting to see how it goes. I'm hopeful - and i'm happy they found a problem to fix as well and she was happy about that too cuz on the xrays it wasn't exactly black and white; the clinical signs did support a hiatal hernia - i still can't figure out what is the diff b/t that and a slip have to ask on my follow up. she said there was a slip too 'it was subtle' and the films are 2 d. Just goes to show how impt that communication is w/ the dr. Pretty incredible really.

Karebear just saw you have trouble w/ chicken and bread and that makes me think maybe you are ok on your fill level and you are eating foods that may be easy to eat. Strip is high fat right? How about filet mignon? How about fish steaks salmon, any fish? Bread a lot of people differ - for me I'm too loose if i can eat bread if I can't i'm just right. You may be ok try some harder to eat foods - salads, dark meat chicken. If you tighten you will start going more to easier and easier foods (high calorie) if you end up too tight and fyi - i never really went past 5.9 cc's so don't focus on the number. everyone is different. Never actually had a baked potato while having the lap so can't compare on that one.

No I don't think they are doing it with most lap bands at all - it seems to be exception based right now but i'm guessing. I know that she personally had not done a lot at all (I can count on my hands basically and she does that many surgeries probably in 1-2 days). A little bit of blind faith here - and not how i operate but I do trust her (the decision to do the surgery was made jointly with a lot of input from me and her presenting the options and me deciding; but once the decision was made she worked out the details - she knew exactly what she wanted to do LOL I do trust her - she is one of the best in a big city full of top doctors. Maybe they do it on revisions or evaluate whether they should do this -probably case by case. But as they learn more w/ their patients they may be doing it more (or less!). I think in my case it was warranted. I could not be without unfills (could gain 3 lbs a week w/ a loose band); i needed to be tight to lose; and now that i think on it should i be prone to these hiatal hernias or get thrown off my horse again (again we don't know if that was it and i don't anticipate ever having another bad fall like that); and need to live w/ my band loosened this could be the answer. I mean the good thing is my surgeon has been seeing a lot of me since i've been banded so has been close to the situation where she could have made a good judgement call.

Hi Karebear 86 lbs is nothing to sneeze at! Great! Well my experience has left me more confused than ever cuz it was all so subtle! kinda freaky actually and I could have lived w/o the surgery if I could have been happy w/ the weightloss and not sure where she would have decided to keep me filled but probably less than where i was which to me meant i would probably regain everything over years and while I was a size 12 (was as low as a 10) - doctors wanted me to lose more weight due to other issues (fatty liver; etc). I agree you are able to eat too much and boy has this been a learning experience. I learned that you can eat too much and still be tight - thats esophagal dilation. The food is filled in ur pouch above the band. But let me ask u this are you where you want to be weight wise? If so it is probably ok. The tightness people live with is very personal decision Key note to take away is really pay attention to the heart burn and talk to your doctor about it (rather I should say acid reflux). My doc explained it beats up on the esophagus and makes it not work well. Another thing I learned - after weight loss it is not so uncommon to have a hiatal hernia come back - telling signs are going from yellow zone to red. (again w/ a very strong team helping me and me going in every 6 weeks or so it was not so blatantly obvious nor obvious in films where it was black and white). Slips - I fell off my horse and asked how do we know if it slipped - and usually there are big signs and something like constant throwing up or trauma would cause that. My fall was a fairly severe fall worse than any car accident and I considered myself lucky i didn't have anything seriously wrong - well needing surgery would qualify for seriously wrong if that is in fact what caused it. Do you throw up a lot? I think they described a subtle slip w/ me could have been from the horse fall or it could have been from nighttime reflux which would cause me to throw up. I had two periods where its been bad last year and just recently which resulted in the revision. My signs were that unfilled it looked normal on the film but filled it did not and it seemed like it would flop around when tightened; but in reality once they were in there they could see subtle slip (and i was unfilled going into the surgery completely). I bought what looks like a great book called bandwagon written by someone who is a bandster ( a fiction writer). For me even w/ all this medical support it often isn't so black and white. I had to really trust my surgeon and I don't know if i mentioned this but they did the new procedure on me as well Plication. Goodbye bandster hell and hunger even when unfilled - hope there aren't any long term negatives but w/ all of this i guess there are trade offs. I think it is so new not sure i would recommend it but my surgeons practice are all very experienced and in my situation it seemed to call for it (they are not doing that many of these or haven't yet i should say). Again trust here or foolish but I'll hope for the best. At some point I have to call on faith in things to work out for the best.

Hi Lastchance i'm still in the codeine haze (now its gone) but it didn't sink in that yours was undone - i can't even imagine how I would feel having TWO surgeries! That is way worse! Glad you are feeling better - i do think this plication stops what you are feeling re bandster hell but I don't know what the complications are from what i read they are what you had - it appears quick onset but i don't know. I was told it is low risk and didn't do my own research the decision was made fairly quick to go ahead and revise, but I do trust my surgeon - it was an hour of discussion b/t her me and the NP that looks after me too. Anyway regarding the pain they really didn't manage it as they should have so it got bad - I wasn't on any painkillers at all until it got really bad - then they added morphine and that did nothing but allow me to stop freaking out and calling the night nurse every hour; so they added percocet and toradol too after i freaked out and emailed my doc first thing Sunday AM. It basically got out of hand where w/ you it sounds like they were on top of it not waiting for you to ask. Also w/ me they didn't LET me get anything down for a full 24 hours nothing but ICE chips until the barium swallow which did go down much to my surprise. SO I was on icechips more or less 24 hours post op. Then i was able to drink Water and brother woo hoo.

yes this just happened to me - so how are you doing now - how do you like the plication? was this your first WLS? I just had a lap band revision and they did the plication as well. I am up 9 lbs and in fact i had to call them cuz they state that as a 'call your dr if....' but they DID discharge me 7 lbs heavier! Going to see my GP tomorrow how was your recovery?

Navy wife new procedure they are doing either alone or w/ lap band best bet is to google it which is what I am doing (I think its sort of like a vertical sleeve w/o having to cut away the stomach). I went in for a revision they did that procedure as well as replace my band. I was having issues when my band was getting tightened it was all very subtle and did not show up on the films. But there was a hiatal hernia (which hadn't been there b4) and a slight slip. Plication is not when they fold over the stomach over the band to prevent a slip (which many people due to the newness of the procedure start getting confused) . Its an area to watch. Those of us who had it are the ones to watch Yes I do feel like a guinea pig but I think for me this may be great. I have a horse I fell off badly in sept and while I was ok I guess it may have caused this slip. I could have lived w/o the surgery but I was likely risking gaining all my weight back - could no longer get the band tightened so seemed like a had no where to go. I think it was genius on my Dr's part to do this - busy practice and its still new for them too.

No I mean gained from surgery to discharge not in the weeks b4 surgery. I gained like 8 lbs in the two days in the hospital! I am actually going to my GP to make sure all is ok! Its a heck of a lot of weight on 2 days and granted my baseline weigh in was dehydrated due to not eating preop - and now I am also PMS. Normally w/o the plication you would be STARVING in these next few weeks and you aren't supposed to really eat more than a 1/2 cup to a cup of food of mushies in a sitting. It takes about till the third fill to get you where you should be in restriction - this period is referred to as bandster hell. I think w/ the plication you won't feel this. I am one of a handful who have this now in my surgeon's office its that new. I think I already see a difference unless its from the swelling that I"m fine on a cup of Soup and 3 Protein shakes all day. Its rough for me cuz I am having a low grade temp was up to 100.4 today (5 days out - but again they did more; - there were adhesions; a hiatal hernia; a liver biopsy and this plication); i had so much pain i couldn't breathe that evening they had to put me on a fairly strong cocktail the next morning when the dr's came around (even morphine wasn't enough) and for about 12-24 hours my breathing got very shallow; and i'm stressing over missing my vacation on the 22nd (I had the revision on april 9). It makes me focus on the breathing machine even more. My lung had not fully reflated on discharge.

So this is first time band for you - congrats! Its been great for me even though we had this last year of stalling due to whatever happened (we aren't sure why). The plication the more i read about it seems quite brilliant! When I would get loosened I would gain 3 lbs a week back a crazy amount of weight. This allows you to rely less on the band and allows to keep the band looser. Pretty interesting. I had surgery on Sat I had to stay two nights they did a liver biopsy; fixed a hiatal hernia and small slip and replaced a new band and that is more of a surgery than putting a new one in as you form adhesions which need to be undone. Sounds like having to carefully peel off a bandaid. Do you remember if you gained weight just before and after the surgery? I put on 7 lbs! I think this happened last time too. BTW don't beat yourself up about weightloss post op - it is called bandster hell it may actually be better cuz u have the plication but it is a time to heal. Many experience weight gain and I bet due to the plication that problem will be less. i have a frame of reference as I had the band w/o plication and now w/ plication.

lastchance4me we were banded the same month weren't we i remember your name (I just posted in sept 09 thread my updates). I had the same EXACT thing happen to me - basically something changed last year and it took this long to figure it out. When i would get too ttight it would look like a slip release it and its fine. Just had a revision this past saturday and they did the plication. Frankly my dr made it sound like nothing and this surgery was quickly planned so that I can also go on a trip. I trust my doc but i have questions like can you now have dumping syndrome that happens w/ the bypass patients? Was your revision as painful as mine it felt 40 times worse than the first one immediately post op I had to go on some serious pain meds. and stayed extra. BUT now - its different more abdominal cramping (they also did a liver biopsy unrelated to this). They fixed a hernia and a small slip (basically had to replace the whole system as i had too much scarring and adhesions to reposition it). I am down 60 lbs but not at my low of down 72 lbs. Last year ups and down. or steady state really. But when they loosened the band boy i gain like 3 lbs a week!

Gingy and Kcharr - well add me to the small plication list. I have had a band for the last two years I had the situation in the last year where something changed- loose it was fine but tight it would slip - may have been brought on by a fall off my horse not sure. In any case I had a revision on April 9 and we discussed my case for an hour at length and she said she would do the pleating as well. They think they have to keep the band less tight with plication. i'm on here as we speak getting myself educated on it AFTER the fact. I put it at the decision of my surgeon. And yes I tend to go for being a guinea pig last time i did the surgery i participated in an anti nausea med study and it was GREAT! This time I couldn't even get that same med and i was a bit more nauseous. I did have a lot of pain on the surgery more so than the first time but there was a lot of ahesions and replaceing a lap band is harder than putting one in. You will love it. Good luck and lets stay in touch. I wouldn't trade it for anything and my fear is losing it. I did lose 72 lbs the first 7 months than plateaued and gained back about 13 due to this issue i've had that required this correction.

I second that toast! I just figured out that I had an additional procedure done when they fixed the band - called a plication I am reading up on it in this site. They pleat the stomach.

Hey Gen good to hear from you too! I meant the practice does a TON of surgeries a year so they have a bunch of experience. So I was stating I felt I was in good hands as statistically speaking they see it all. I haven't had a full detailed conversation w/ doc on it but and let me make clear that even in light of problems this is the best thing I've done (I know people read these things and think the worst but i wouldn't trade it for anything in fact my big fear is losing it). Like you i wanted to lose 90 I lost 70 but put on 10 over the last year because it just wasn't the same. the same fill level was now giving me too many problems where I could not sleep at night due to reflux. If the loosened it I was too loose so never just right like goldilocks - tightented it then it would be too tight w/ night reflux resulting in my having to throw up to be able to sleep. The NP i sometimes see, told me that was a sign of hiatal hernia never being able to be in the green zone anymore. He sent me for an esophogram when i was tightened it nothing was going thru and it looked borderline slip... he loosened it to see if when it calmed down we could see the hernia. SO loosened after 2 weeks the film looked perfect (maybe when they started measuring before and afters the band looked like it was sitting lower than b4 which would indicate something if they were grasping) but not anything obvious they were really trying to find something. Went into surgery based on clinical really and my choices were that they could not tighten the band I would need to live w/ it lose as it is creating problems (so whats the point then - its not doing what it is supposed to do). I think what happened to me was more an exception the NP watched the whole thing and he said it was a very interesting case. The Dr said it was more of a surgery (they had to replace the whole system) than planned due to ahesions and scarring that part is all normal but i had more than usual. There was a bit of a slip she explained it but i was too drugged up will get more color but she said it was subtle but it made her feel better that the problem is addressed, as she said statistically revisions have a 30 pct failure rate. Now the slip could have happened when i fell off the horse we talked about that - i fell off my new horse Federer in Sept and got flung into a wall like a doll it was a very severe fall and I came out of it ok (just some slightly torn ligs in my arm; tricep muscle; and fractured fibula) it sounds alot but i didn't miss a beat. I felt some spasms going on in that area and we agreed that 'if its a slip you would know it'. my night heartburn was very very bad. i HAD to be on zegrid all the time and even then i would cough up and choke and throw up. During the day i felt like at proper restriction but nightime another story. Part of this was that my pouch was expanding from the pressure so that was allowing me to eat more and not push it thru ... the acid makes the esophagus not work well either. I have no clue it sounds all complicated to me. I am good where I am too into size 12's. I could be working out more just ride my horse on weekends. Happy where I am just been told i need to lose more by docs and i can't. I weigh in at 182 so I do have a lot of muscle mass I think that makes me heavier but still a size 12. I'm feeling better now - surgery was this past saturday (the recovery on this is longer than the initial and the whole thing was 30 times worse for me). ALso i initially had the SILS now i have 4 incisions so maybe that is part of pain but definitely the fact that they had to deal w/ scar tissue in removing the band to put in a new one creates a bigger pain factor. Same deal 10 days liquids 10 days mushies. Going away 2 weeks after the surgery so that was a concern but it should be fine.

Hi gang not sure if everyone checks in any more - I've stayed at that 60 lbs loss but had more to go - we realized there was an issue and guess what a slight slip and hernia. Just had a revision this past saturday. boy was it more painful than the first go! She was just going to reposition it but too much scarring so needed a complete replacement. We think it is possible this happened when I took a bad fall off my horse in sept it was subtle so not the glaring signs you read about that if you slip you know it. In fact it looked more like a hiatal hernia. Boy am i happy I am in a practice that sees a zillion of these.

All - I am having similar issues messed around for a year w/ complete unfills and going back up. Lost 72 lbs in 9 months and then problems started. Here are observations and the awesome NP in the practice and Dr I see, helped alot w/ the clinical signs because in my case it looked really bad at 5.8 cc's but an unfill corrected it completely but the joke is I can't get filled it would need to be loose so whats the point? 1) After June I was never in the green zone i was either too loose or too tight where that was defined by reflux problems at night. They explained that could be a hiatal hernia that developed. It sure looked that way or a partial slip on the barium swallow a few weeks ago before he released it. 2) Through this i've net gained 12 lbs and I imagine would if i did nothing would slowly gain back 3) after the unfill the barium swallow looked pretty good the band did look like it was sitting lower; before the unfill pouch dilated and it looked like stomach was coming up 4) Dr explained to me that the acid reflux ends up causing problems w/ the espophagus and it works less effectively in pushing the food through So my point is that in my case even w/ the films there was not THAT much that was conclusive and sometimes they do need to go on the clinical evidence. I hope it will work for all of us - even though this is a pain this is still the best thing I ever did. My big fear is that it will fail. I am going in on Sat

Hi Mia - I'm not ready for it yet. I've got 30 lbs to go. And I think that will take a while. I'm ok in my arms and tummy really the area that can use help is my butt and inner thighs but its not critical. I'm about 65 lbs down.

Hi all - belated congrats to all of us on our 1 year! You (we) all have been doing great. I am so happy I did this but like comet below i've had problems too that stemmed from being overtight. I can't seem to handle past 5.5. Anyway I'm down 62 lbs ( gained some back after a complete unfill) but back on the right track) now. This allowed me to get my life back.. I got a cool new horse my riding has way improved and that keeps me going. Though the icecream gets me too! I have about 30 lbs to go I'm back up to 180 now. But thats ok its better than where i started!

woo hoo congrats DEE!!!

Hi gang - great to hear Nawlinzlady! I lost about 64 lbs - was more at one point like 70 or 72. BUT I got into overtight mode and heartburn issues (I can't tolerate more than 5.5 to 5.8 cc's). She took some out I gained the 8lbs but really i have not been in 'diet mode' more like woo hoo!! 20 lbs to go mode!!'. So that cost me. NOW i either had a complete UNFILL today ie. i have 2 cc's in and I don't know if that is basically the primer or 2 cc's in the band i think its primer really. Went in for the barium swallow and w/ PMS I started having the heartburn night issues though to be honest if i stop eating 3 hours before sleeping I would have probably avoided all the inflammation that resulted. It didn't seem tight but something was wrong. Well I'm glad it didn't slip and my goal is to not gain too much and eat well over the next 3 weeks!

Very interesting - it must be a mental thing - or being too tight. I started eating junk from being too tight.. but now its mental. I think from BEING too tight I was really not eating ANYTHING and when she finally loosened me I was too happy to be eating. I gained about 8 lbs. That's ok I'll lose it - worked too hard and I think about my new horse and how much my riding improved so that keeps me going. My down fall has been icecream I think maybe I should check into a support group. Or make use of the nutritionist at my dr's office. Totally having a sweet tooth! Congrats Hardy - so what do they do - do they unfill when pregnant? Have you done the esophagram yet? Some offices have patients do at 6 months - mine does it in a year. She wanted to check it a little sooner - I have had heartburn issues. In any case its not THAT much sooner but at sep 2.

Yea i never even waited those two weeks and went back in she took out .5 cc's and I was happily eating again. She wants me to stay on Zegerid for the heartburn. i just now after 2 months had .2 cc's put back in. too tight is not good i am sorry you went thru such complications