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LauraK, LOL I didn't take a nap...rarely do that, but we did have a nice day. As far as Chicago....Cheri, I love the idea that you offered to use your house as a gathering area. That will be perfect because we need a chance "Hang out" and talk. With the last two gatherings, I think doing activities is great, we need to do that, but having time to just talk is important also. There are so many people with so many different ideas, it's really hard to organize group activities....my favorite saying is, "it's like herding cats". Okay, I have to get dressed and get out of here. Off to pick up Apples for a craft show (mostly quilting) in Phoenix. Later, Eva

Morning.... Janet, HAPPY BIRTHDAY Have a WONDERFUL DAY!

Just got back from the AZ Sonoran Desert Museum. I had a great time. We got to see a screech owl up close. They are really small. Apples and her DH finally saw a javalina...not too exciting, they were sleeping, but we were fairly close. I'm ready for a nap. This is what happens with me after a day in the sun. Tomorrow will probably be as bad since Apples and I are going to a arts and craft show in Phoenix at the state fairgrounds. I guess I need to do something constructive. BBL Eva

Morning, Another fly by....ok Janet, I take that Happy Birthday back....I'll wish you another wonderful day tomorrow....LOL. Charlene, I did make sausage....just Breakfast sausage, no casings and I sort of played with the seasonings. Finally got some that I liked, but I made eleven 12oz packages and froze it. The stuff you buy in the store has nitrates or nitrites, its expensive, salty, and when you buy pork at $.99 /lb, it really doesn't take that long to chop it, grind it, mix it, freeze it....okay, well maybe it does take a while, but I did it over 3 days so it wasn't too bad. No I did not add jalapenos....I can add them later. Just wanted something basic to start with. School is going well, but I need to study more Spanish. Thanks everyone for writing to me in Spanish. I actually understand most of it, just can't respond yet. I already have my writing assignment done for next week. So far, those are fun and not the chore they could be. Anyone that wants to retire here, welcome. Arizona vs Florida....Arizona is dry, we do not have Water in our rivers, we do not have large trees everywhere nor is there much grass. Florida, water in rivers, large and profuse trees, lots of grass....in other words, it's green there. It's rather brown here. Although in my little piece of the desert, there is lots of vegetation. It's not barren or flat. There are 4 mountain ranges surrounding Tucson, not like Great's in SLC, but they are mountains. We do get cold, snow, heat, no seasons to speak of, but you learn to appreciate what we do have. Okay, gotta go meet Apples. Later Eva

Happy Birthday Janet!! Hope you had/have a wonderful day!!

Morning ladies, I was surprised by all the responses to the recipe. Thanks, hope you enjoy it. Yesterday, I was so annoyed (angry) for really no good reason but it resulted in my stomach being really tight. It's a good lesson that your emotions can certainly affect your physical body. Yes, I'm over it...it had to do with emissions testing on my car and all is well. Laura, although I can't respond to what you said in Spanish, I did understand it and Si, senora. Your trip sounds wonderful and you share a birthday with two of my very good friends. I'd love to swim with the dolphins. Haven't done that yet, but it's something to look forward to. Janet, what happened to your old BBQ? Is it permanently broken? Have fun with your kids this weekend. Sounds like you are having a good time with Jodi too. Charlene, it's probably good that you are letting others deal with your Mom for a little while. I think everyone needs a break. Don't eat too much of that gumbo. My project for today and maybe tomorrow is grinding pork. It was on sale for 99 cents/lb. I buy Jimmy Dean lower fat breakfast sausage for DH, but it's around $5 or $4.50 for 12 oz. It's getting way too expensive. So I'm going to make my own and then I can control how much fat is actually in the sausage. I'll grind it, season it, and freeze it in individual packages. Many years ago, I made my own Italian sausage and some others. I even used casings and stuffed them. It's a lot of work and since finding our local sausage shop, I haven't done that, but this breakfast sausage thing shouldn't be that hard and at least I'll know exactly what's in the sausage. Okay, I have to print out my homework (first writing assignment due today), go for a walk, and make sausage. Later, Eva

Evening, Just got back from dinner with DH....it's our 4th anniversary and we actually went out on the day. This might be a first....hahaha. Apples asked me to post a recipe for a green sauce...this is inspired by a sauce they serve on shrimp at one of the Mexican seafood restaurants here in town. My measurements are vague because I don't really measure, just keep adding until I like it. Culiche Saute 1 medium chopped onion and 2 cloves garlic until soft. Cool a little and place in a blender. Add 1 small can of chopped and peeled green chilies. Blend until somewhat smooth. Add fat free yogurt either greek or regular. If you use greek, you may have to add milk or some liquid to thin it. Taste it and you might have to add more yogurt or more chilies. Add salt to taste. I might have added cilantro to this, but I don't always. I use fresh peeled chilies when I can and I've used sour cream also, but the yogurt works well. The original recipe uses cream I think. It is very rich and has too many calories. The FF sour cream and/yogurt works well and if you have good chilies, the flavor comes from them and the garlic/onion mixture. I use this sauce on chicken and shrimp and Apples uses it on other stuff. You can add a little chopped tomato and avocado as a topping for the chicken. It works equally well hot or cold....just don't get it so hot it breaks. Need to study Spanish. No hable espanole (yet). Eva

Morning ladies, Great...I'm a Packers fan too but didn't watch the game. I did hear that they won....so cool they are going to the Super Bowl again. I used to watch football with my Dad decades ago. It's probably the only sport I'll watch on occasion. LauraK, sounds like you are having a blast...good for you. Those 3:30 to 7am nights are tough. I've been doing a few of those lately and they do catch up with you, but glad you are having fun!! Linda, great deals, I love it when that happens. I think you would be happy with a little TT. Please let us know if you decide to do that...I know you will, but I'm curious. You are smart with the gambling...I try and do that too, but I rarely go to the casinos. Get noise overload. Laura....so sorry about the GSC....those thin mints are my favorite and go down way too easy. Hope you made it to the gym today! Sandy, you needed a relaxing weekend....glad you enjoyed it. Yes, I'm curious to hear about your consultation too. Melissa, it's okay to whine, but I'm proud of you being an adult with your gift money. I can't tell you how many times I've done that with my gift money, but it sure helps later. Glad you had a nice birthday dinner. Phyl, Algodones....that will be fun. You just going down there for fun or are you meeting people. Going to spend the night in Yuma? I have worked in that are a little bit and have been to the Mexican side. Maybe next time I'll be able to speak a little of the language...LOL. Funny about Zoey being a Water dog...Glimmer, my sort of black lab could care less about water and we have a hard time getting her in the water. Charlene, I know you are being sandwiched with all that you do for your family, but they are very lucky to have you. And your mother sounds like a delight most times. Keep walking. I've started again too. The dog and I took a long one yesterday. Cheri, you probably get put in charge because you get things done. It's a talent that everyone will want to use. When I write, I have to run stuff through my head a while before I can start putting it on paper. I think that is the hardest part...once the writing starts, it tends to flow. Janet, congrats on the books....yeah!! Glad you had fun with Jodi and Dassi. Glimmer is better at least for right now. I took her off the valley fever meds and she is just getting the "leaking" meds because when I took her off that she was leaking. That med doesn't seem to be contributing to the diarrhea. Today I gave her some liverwurst and the bladder med and will see how she does for a couple of days on that, then I'll add her fluconizal back and see what happens. The plumbing issue cost $145 but we don't have the tools to fix it. There are roots in the drain pipes from the house to the street. These were actually between the cleanout in the middle of the yard to the front porch. We think the very large saguaro has found an excellent source of water. It's been growing phenomenally...guess we know why now. At least it was a quick and easy fix once the plumber got out here. Our drainage system is clay tiles and he says those pesky roots find a way in there no matter what you do. My DH went to Arkansas a week ago to spend time with his mom. He came home this Saturday so we spent the day together, then yesterday was another slow day but we had a concert last night. Got home just before midnight so another night of not so much sleep. Hello to anyone I've missed (and I'm sure I have). Have to go feed the birds....talk to you all later. EVa

Sandy, I'm on metformin too, but I only take 1/2 of the proscribed does and my A1C numbers were 5.7 so the doctor is really happy with that. As far as the TT I think you should talk to a doctor or two and see what they have to say. Since I'm not even close to that, getting a professional opinion would be necessary to making that decision. I think you need to do what you are comfortable with, but if you are planning on losing more weight, you should wait....otherwise you have more lose skin issues. Sorry, I've been negligent here again. My sister showed up Thursday after class and we ended up going out to dinner at a very nice Mexican Restaurant that has been written up in most of the major culinary magazines. Of course I couldn't eat all of my dinner and I'm making 4 meals out of it. Just finished the fish and it was delicious. Then yesterday we took Apples shopping. That was fun and I spent money too. Took her to LeeLee which is an oriental market that is amazing. Don't know what 95% of the stuff in there is, but it's always interesting to look. They also have a great selection of weird fruit and veggies. FNSC went well. Apples brownies were a hit and both her and her DH seemed comfortable with my friends. I know my friends enjoyed them. We stayed out too late again and when I got home, my dog had been sick in the house and I didn't see it until after I stepped in it, so not only did the dog track sh*& all over the house, so did I. The other problem which started yesterday is my drains are plugged. Really plugged so I can't run any Water. Had to call the plumber and he just got here, so I need to go babysit the plumber. BBL

Sandy, I'm still getting a grade for Spanish...I haven't decided just to audit it. Even though I don't have to care about a grade for a degree, I still have some of that "need to get good grades" going on.

Yipee my oven is fixed. I won't be able to use the self-cleaning function anymore, but that's okay as long as the oven part works. All of my appliances are 10 years old so they just aren't built like they used to be. The little fuse that keeps burning out is very small so $120 later for a very tiny part. I guess we are lucky because they way the kitchen was built, we set the oven on bricks in the opening under the cook top and it can be slid out by one strong person onto some more bricks. This oven is made for a cabinet but DH wouldn't let me put it where I wanted, so no cabinet. I don't think the oven could have been slid out and worked on by one person if it was in a oven cabinet. The cook top sits on top of the counter and it can be lifted out...I can do that myself because it's not heavy. So the cook top got cleaned, the floor got vacuumed under the oven, and the floor washed. A good day all in all. Back to more reading and cleaning.

Morning ladies, Linda, sorry about SD, I too hope she finds the help she needs. The self destruction is so sad. Thanks for the article you posted. Always good info. Arlene, my dog has Valley Fever which is a fungal infection. The fungus lives in the soil here and when it is disturbed it releases the spores which then lodge in people and animal's lungs. Most people will get it and it acts like the flu and most people can fight it. Animals do the same only my dog's immune system doesn't seem to want to fight it. So now she is on pills all the time, two a day, every day. Unlike Apples, she loves her liverwurst. LOL. Glad to hear you are not discouraged....it doesn't help. LauraK, sounds like you are having fun with the dating thing. Not sure I could handle all the BS that goes with that, but you seem to be thriving. Enjoy. Meredith, you are a night owl aren't you? I have those tendencies, but have been trying to fight them so I can live a more normal life with DH. I get a lot done in the morning, but only at my own pace. I've been leaving Apples and her DH alone so they can relax and decide what they want to do...although they are very easy and up for anything. I spent the day writing yesterday beside attending my first class. I'm taking beginning Spanish, so the teacher walks in and starts speaking Spanish.....duh......but after a little while, I actually could understand some of it. I think I'm going to like her and will continue to take the class for credit. There will be 4 tests and 2 oral presentations. I may be the oldest student, but there is a man that may be of similar age. Today's class is writing and is this afternoon. We'll see how that goes. I've never taken classes without working also, so this is different for me. The oven repair guy is supposed to be here this morning, so I got up and cleaned the stove top and took it out (this has to be done to get to the oven). I also cleaned all the edges and the back splash, etc. Never hurts to use these opportunities to give everything a swipe. I'm not sure if this guy is going to show. He sort of blew me off once already so if he doesn't show up this morning, I think I'll call someone else. I need my oven fixed. It's been two weeks already. The weather has been beautiful again. I've been able to open up the house in the afternoon which is nice, but the house gets dirtier quicker. Oh, well, I am retired. BBL Eva

Morning....have to take the dog to the vet for another blood draw. Testing her valley fever levels again. Then play date with Tanker and Apples. Not sure what after that. Happy Birthday Melissa...hope you have a wonderful day! Jodi, what dates will you been in CA? Eva

Afternoon ladies, I'm having a lazy day today. I stayed up too late last night (2:30am) and slept in until around 10 this morning. I did get up a few times to let the dog in and out....a few times....did I mention it was more than once? LOL. Sandy, that is so cool about your Cancun trip! Especially since you'll have your own room and will be able to just enjoy yourself for a week. Your life here will wait for you without a doubt and you need the break. I've never been to Cancun, but it's on the list. Meredith, your two year plan sounds good to me....I'm on a five year plan so who am I to criticize. I understand about not committing yourself to all the functions all the time. Yes, you and Andrew do need some time for each other. It's wonderful to have many things to do, but having time for just yourself is important. Cheri, I guess not all OA groups are the same. I went to one here and they were pretty supportive and did not regiment the diet, just suggested going on one. My biggest problem with the group was listening to the same people whine about the same things over and over and over again. It was good for them to have an outlet, but I got tired of hearing the exact same story again and again. I also had a problem following ALL the 12 steps. So when you laughed so hard you couldn't breath...I probably would have laughed so hard I peed my pants....that really brought a chuckle. Laura, so good to hear from and glad to hear you have a little "me" time. Enjoy it while you can. Your young man will be at the point when he doesn't want to have anything to do with you in about 10 years, enjoy it while you have him now. So you aren't going to buy that salt Water tank are you? They are expensive and those fish are very finicky. I have a couple of friends with them and they spend a lot of time and money on them. I'd love to have you here too....we could have a girls day out, that would be fun. Apples has no problem leaving DH at home and going to play. It's been great having her around. Great, you could always try and fly standby down here without your DH....we have room for you and time for you. At least you'll get some sunshine. And what I told Laura, we can have some girl time. Not much going on here today....I might go dig a hole so I can transplant something. I need to get up and get moving. I walked yesterday and will do my pilates thing today, but still the weather is beautiful and I need to spend some time outside. As far as the weather....as nice as it is now, remember, this coming spring/summer/fall when it's way over 100 degrees here, you all will be having the wonderful weather. Have a great Sunday.

Linda, thanks for posting that story about the bells. People do pull together in adversity. Sorry about your kidney issues. After reading about MIL's stuff I now know how serious it can be. At least you will do what ever is necessary to take care of yourself. Apples and her DH just stopped by with Tanker. Glimmer and Tanker are about the same size so it's pretty funny because they are a little jealous of each other. Tanker is a very nice dog however and is a perfect gentlemen in the house. It's 72 degrees today and beautiful so I think they are really enjoying the weather. Apples does have her sandals on. I'm in socks and shoes still. Meredith...don't beat yourself up. It doesn't help. Guilt doesn't help anyone especially you. You have done very well with your weight loss and will continue to do so even if it is a little slower than you planned. It's quiet today and I'm enjoying it. Just I'll just talk to you all later. Eva

Arlene, I like the semi-retired status. You know, this only the 2nd day that I didn't have "a plan" about what I was going to do. In some ways it's nice, but I think I'll like it better when school starts. I did strip one of the outdoor cushions to see what the padding was. I need to make new covers because the old ones have rotted away....really rotten. I bought the fabric but don't quite have the pattern down yet. Never fear, I'll figure something out. They were one piece top and bottom cushions and I may stick with that, but I'm not sure yet. Time to be creative. Yes, my MIL lives in Arkansas. She decided maybe three years ago that she couldn't live alone and moved in with her daughter. It's hard on DH, but I'm almost glad he isn't watching his mother fail. He is very sensitive and this just tears him up. My cat is bugging me. She is on my desk playing with the papers, knocking things off, laying in front of the keyboard. Guess she is bored and wants some attention. I'll have to go play with her, then she'll sleep for six hours. Later, Eva

Morning everyone, Linda, I'm so sorry SD isn't taking care of herself and her daughter. I'm sure it just breaks your heart to know she has a daughter to care for and doesn't. Sure wish there was a magic pill, but there isn't, it's reality. My heart and hugs to you and DH. Along similar lines, my DH calls his Mom almost every day and when he called the other morning, she could barely talk and when he asked if she was okay, she said no and said she would call back later. She didn't so DH called his sister and found out that his Mom is in Stage 4 renal failure. At Stage 5 they put you on dialysis. He also thinks she's in the hospital or was in the hospital, but hasn't got a straight answer about that yet. The point of this is, MIL has diabetes and doesn't always keep it under control along with all the other stuff that goes with it. She is overweight and just sits. I think she has decided she has nothing to live for and is killing herself via disease. There isn't anything we can do to help her take care of herself because she refuses to do anything. It just breaks my heart to see this happen again. I had to watch something similar with my father. I love my MIL, she is a bright and loving woman and the world will be a sadder place without her. However, we can't give her enough love to make her love herself. Soap box time: we all got banded (or dieted) to get healthier because we do love ourselves. We have to do that in order to take care of ourselves. Please remember this as we get older and continue to have issues like FM, arthritis, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. We can take care of those things and should. I'm praying for all of us and all our families that we can continue to share love and support. As for my life....Apples and I had a great time and I'm looking forward to doing more stuff with her while she is here. I got a kindle reader for Christmas from DH and finally bought a book for it. It turned out to be a short story and I finished it already. So I bought a couple more yesterday. It's so easy and you can change the font on the screen which is nice. I don't have to wear my glasses to read. Also, you don't have to hold the book open like a regular one. I'm liking it more and more. I suppose I need to do something constructive today, so maybe I'll wash sheets. LOL...that darn housework stuff keeps popping it's head up. CBL Eva

Great, yes, you keep posting about your trips. We all enjoy hearing about them and yes, you will probably get teased. So it's not exactly Hawaii here, but you can come to Tucson and enjoy our nicer weather. It was very nice mid afternoon today and we had to turn on the air conditioner in the car because the car got hot. Sorry folks that are freezing....but it's why I live in the desert. Glad you enjoyed your WLS group. It's really nice to find people you can connect with. Had a very pleasant afternoon with Apples. We left her DH at home and went shopping. I took her to my sushi bar but she didn't get too adventurous there, then we went to La Encantada which has our nicer shops like Pottery Barn, J. Jill, Williams-Sonoma, etc. We didn't hit all the stores because we have to save some for later. Then we went to Trader Joes, the Sausage Shop, and the farmer's market. It was a full and delightful day. It's really nice not having project looming overhead right now and I think I'm going to enjoy the next few days. Linda, sorry to hear the Katie is sick again....it is strange how that works. Hope you do get to change your hours. Arlene, I have some of that Cherry Blossom lotion. I really like it, but it is rather strong and sweet smelling. Glad your mother was so loving and see how much easier it is for you to deal with her now. It is great to hear how well your relationship is even when there are problems like she is having now. LauraK, I love your attitude. Yep, you get to pick them now and don't let anyone use you. Okay, I've got to put something together for dinner. Later folks, Eva

Morning, Back from the bone density scan....preliminary results, I'm normally dense....LOL. I also picked up my books for class next week and that was nice because there was no line. I find it funny that I spent $150 for a "book" that I have to provide a binder for. Nicely printed sheets, but it's still a little weird. Guess I am still "old school" that way. I'm taking classes in the middle of the day and I bet I'll be the oldest student in the classes. Had a great visit with Apples and DH yesterday and thank you for the compliments. I have done some nice tile work, at least it makes this house custom because no one else will have this. My parents never told me they loved me until I was in my 30's. It was sort of a big deal when we finally hugged each other and said "I love you." I don't think that generation was taught that behavior so they didn't exhibit it. So many of my friends say the same things about their parents. I believe it did make me resilient and self reliant. I didn't get "together" with my DH until I was 40 and we got married when I was 50. So I did not rely on a man or anyone else for a long time after I left home. I developed wonderful friendships that have lasted years and am grateful to my parents for assisting me in my growth process. Now doesn't that sound like a bunch of crap. LOL. When my parents got older and right before they died, they really had some issues like not wanting to pay for anything, my Dad sat down and wouldn't move and Mom wouldn't do anything unless a man told her to. It was very weird. Okay, time to go play with Apples, Check in later. Eva

Had a good visit with Apples, her DH and Tanker...got to show off all my mess. I'm listening to an audio book and going to bed. Will catch up tomorrow after my bone scan. Have a great night. Eva

Sandy, my parents had a real problem paying for stuff when they got older too. They had unreasonable expectations about those things. Ask your Dad if he was there for his parents and shoveled their driveway for free when he was your age? It probably won't have any impact on him, but maybe. I hope and pray I'm not that way when I get to be our parents age. Who knows though.

LauraK, sounds like you'll be bundled up like that little kid in "A Christmas Story"....only your eyes will be visible. At least you are out there walking. Lori, we have Safeways all over the place in Tucson...Safeways, Frys, at least one Basha's, Albertsons, and food City. Those are the major ones, then there is Trader Joes, Sunflower, Sprouts, Whole Foods, AJ's and maybe others I'm not aware of. No problem shopping here. This county reached over a million people a couple of years ago. I'm sure we've dropped a little in population with the economy, but not a whole lot. We don't have quite all the stores the Phoenix area has, but we have most of them. If you like city living, it's not a bad place to be. Janet, 68 degrees today and partly cloudy. I'm sure Apples thinks it's heaven. It's supposed to be in the 70's tomorrow. Okay, I really do have to work. Eva

Lori, I think I know why everyone wants you to take care of everything...it's because you aren't working in a regular job. I sort of see that happening with me. DH is beginning to figure out that I'm not working...hahahaha...so I can do everything else. Well isn't it amazing how much time all that everything else consumes. I used to think the same thing about my sisters, they aren't working so why can't they do......whatever. Well, I'm finding out different. One sister does a lot the other sister sits and watches TV too much, so it goes both ways. I don't think you are a sit and watch TV sort of person. Linda, some of the SF stuff is sweetened with sorbitol. That will cause really bad gas. A lot of SF hard candy has sorbitol and I really can't eat it. So your warning is a good thing. That's funny about the rug. Janet, I do the Calcium chews too, but am good about only eating one of those. Take them with my pills. Arlene, you know your Mom sounds like a reasonable woman. Glad she had her wrist set and hope it heals quickly. It would be easier on you if she would stay with you but it might be more stressful too. Cheri, take care of yourself. Don't let the gremlins get you down. It's funny to read Apples post about shorts and sandals because I'm in long sleeves and jackets now. It's not really cold, but cold enough for me. And no, I'm not a people pleaser, I just know what I like. I wanted to set the house up the way I would like to find it if I was going to stay there for an extended time. She had to buy her own coffee pot because I didn't have a 2nd one so it's not completely furnished (have to have a coffee pot you know). I'm going to work on my document today and do a little house keeping before they get here. I actually am feeling good about not having obligations hanging over my head. Yipee!! BBL, Eva

Morning...off to get beautiful this morning, then I'll do some shopping...fresh stuff, and then house cleaning. What an exciting day. Oh, and I'll have to work at "work" too some. I'm leaving Apples alone today to get settled in. I'll start bugging her tomorrow...LOL. Meredith, Apples is renting my mother-in-law's house which has been empty for quite a while. We had it painted and I've furnished it with left-overs from my sister, the place in Benson, extra stuff I have, etc. So they are living in a hodge podge. The house is really nice, small, but nice, it's just the furnishings that are pretty funny. They did get a new mattress yesterday. It's functional and I think they'll be fairly comfortable. It has a really nice screened in porch...which isn't so important this time of year, but in the spring it nice to keep the flies out. Need to scoot....check in later, Eva

Lori, I have to agree with the consensus here...Let MIL know she'll be missed but plans have been made. Wow, it amazes me that some people have to have all the control all the time. Joyce, Palm Desert and Tucson are about 6+ hours away from each other. It may all be desert, but it isn't the same desert. Jodi, yep those families can sure get to you. You are going to be in the desert for two weeks? Cool. Sandy, congrats on the progress....that is really great. Meredith, congratulations on graduation and the math test. That is an awesome accomplishment (speaking from experience here.) You deserve a big pat on the back. Charlene, glad your Mom is getting settled. Is the rehab place any closer to you than where she normally lives? Cheri, how are you enjoying the Wii? Linda, hope you stay warm in that snow storm. Kelly, so excited that you are going to start school. I start on the 18th, but just for my own personal stuff, not for any career plans like you. You go and good for you. Apples made it here earlier that she expected. I was still in Phoenix and not even at Ikea yet when she was 90 minutes out so they went visiting and hung out a bit in town. She made it to the house when my friend and I were unloading the new mattress. At least she'll have a decent bed (I hope), new sheets, and a place to let Tanker out. I left a mess there because I ran out of time, but I know she'll want to stay busy and can organize stuff the way she wants it. I took a friend to Phoenix with me and it was very nice to have someone to visit with on that drive. We stopped by a leather store, and oh my was the furniture nice. I want to go back and look at that stuff again. It was pricey, but looked fabulous. There were other things there I wanted to look at also, but we just didn't have enough time...I think that is my biggest whine lately, where's the time. Okay, I'm going to finish my stew. Hope everyone has a great night! Eva