lisah25

He did attend a Muslim school for two years while living with his family in Indonesia. He wasn't a Muslim from what I read, it was just the best school in the area at the time. I think he was about nine or ten. He attends a Christian Church now. Let me look for a link... http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp There are more out there. Bottom line, from everything I've read, this rumor is nothing more then an attempt to smear him by playing on fear.

Excuse me! Don't you realize that pasta is of the devil!?! At least for us banded types...:heh:

I also think we need to remember that we who are still hanging out posting to this thread had time to work it out and calm down. Gadgetlady came in and was catching up. So I think it's worth cutting her a little slack. And figure we are all back on the same page now. I personally love converstations like this. I learn a lot from them.

It's always good to hear other people went through what you are! Once you get healed and properly adjusted, I'll bet you love the band. I'm thrilled with mine.

I think you are doing fine. Sometimes we do have to walk away, go pet our cat or something.

I'm not denying that some threads get heated, and that often there is one side that is the minority and probably does feel attacked, but a "gang-rape" is such an ugly, horrible thing that I don't think it begins to be appropriate here. In other forums, in the past, I was involved in really ugly "forum wars". I was attacked with personal information I had shared with those who I thought were my friends, and yes did my share of attacking. It was mean-spirited and I am deeply ashamed of being involved in it. But even in the heat of it, I was aware I could turn my computer off and walk away.

Wow - that seems a pretty dramatic image for what is after all words on a computer screen.

But when I have a child, I know all that. I have no choice in the creation of that child. God did. That's my point. My creating a child is very different from God creating mankind.

I had a pastor once who put it really well, but I can't remember exactly what he said now. It was long the lines of walking with our fellow humans, and helping them as much as we can. Offering to share our faith, but no matter how that offer is received, to continue walking with others. And helping. I've seen such wonderful examples of people who REALLY live that. One family we know came over after DH fell off a ladder putting up Christmas lights, and put them up for us. DH wasn't hurt badly, but he wasn't anxious to try again. We didn't ask them too, they just heard what happened and came over. We've had people help us navigate my FIL's progressing Alzheimers. Years ago help me when my dad died suddenly. And in turn we've been able help other people. That's the best witness, IMHO.

He may not have wanted us to make wrong choices, but He made us knowing we were going to. I'm not sure there is a significant difference there. He could have said "Hey, wait a minute. If I go ahead like this, my beloved creations will sin and suffer. Maybe I'd better rethink this part" What I mean by my Glory comments is this. You have said that we Glorify God when we choose to turn away from sin and worship him, correct? Let me ask this then, for whose benefit is that Glory?

Thanks BJean! It's nice to know. I think this thread has taken a nice turn, I like that we can all get along and have discussions and still disagree.

Repeat after me "The first 6 weeks are about healing. Not about losing weight". (at least according to my surgeon). You probably had IV liquids put in you during surgery, and that is part of the weight gain.

That does sound bad. I've never had a fill under fluoro, and I've either been lucky or had good filler because they've always gotten it on the first poke. They do have you lift your legs up, that tightens your ab muscles and makes the port easier to feel.

So I'm back to the idea that God made us, knowing the choices we'd make and the suffereing it would lead to, for His own Glory? Hum, not sure about that one.

The research I did on RNY said patients should assume that it's not reversable. That sometimes it can be reversed, but with varying degrees of success. That the parts are still there, but because they aren't being used they may not function as well once reconnected. Something along those lines. I'm glad it's working so well for your DH!

But I wouldn't pass it on if I had the choice not to, if I knew during creation of that child I could remove that disease, why wouldn't I? Ah, but the catch is that God created the game and set up the rules. We then have to play by them.

But how can you say we were created perfect if we had the cabability to disobey and sin? If I could have had my niece born perfect, so that she would never make a mistake and get hurt or sick, I might have made that happen. For a bit of a disclaimer here, I don’t pretend to have the understanding needed to explain God and His choices. Some of it doesn’t, and won’t, make sense to me. I can live with that, my faith is beyond what I can explain. I think of God as a Father. And I accept that kids don’t understand everything their parents do, why they do it. So that’s how I feel. I am always curious to hear what other people think. Their opinions on the things I have questions about. I'm finding this a very interesting conversation.

It never fails to surprise me, the depths some go to in politics. You'd think by now nothing would.

I'm glad the X-Ray came back clear! He's right of course, in that it's not a magic bullet, and that not everyone reaches goal with a band. But the stats are so much better with a band then without, something's going on. The band is a physical device. That creates real physical changes. Believe me, if I had any thought that I could do this without my band, of course I would have. But more then 30 years of trying convinced me that I just plain can't, and I wasn't willing to let my health just get worse and worse. I would have rather saved the money and trouble, but I'm already having better results then I could on my own. I hope he is at least willing to consider this for you.

I've always like the God as our Father image. However, when I conceive a child, I have limited control(if any) over what characteristics he/she will be born with. God OTHO could have given us, His creations, any charactistics He choose, He had total creative control so to speak. It sounds like you are saying God created us imperfect and thus subject to suffereing so that we would worship Him in the way He wants, to provide Him with glory? Hum.

That doesn't really answer my question, maybe I'm not asking it clearly. Why did God, who could have created us any way He wanted, create us know that we would choose sin, choose to disobey Him and suffer for it?

My question is still why God made us with that sinful nature?

Very nicely put! Thanks.

That is a great way to put it!

Well, I would imagine it's a little different doing a sample band you are holding in your hand and one implanted in you where you can't see it. You had a choice of band sizes? My surgeon told me he'd pick the one that fit best during surgery, as there is no way to really know how big someone's stomach is from looking at them. I was also told that both can be tightened down to the same diameter, they just start bigger.