Tired_Old_Man

And I promise not to have an abortion either.

#1. The Old Testament says that man laying with man is an abomination. #2. It also says eating pork is an abomination. #3. Christians have told me that the New Testament over-rode the Old Testament. If #3 is true then neither #1 or #2 are valid rules to live by. Also, the Ten commandments are no longer valid either, since they are not in the New Testament. I sure hope #3 is true because the Old Testament contains these words of wisdom: Exodus 21:1-4: "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself." Deuteronomy 15:12-18: "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him." Exodus 21:7: "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do." Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (NIV) Leviticus 25:48-53: "After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him." Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]." Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake." Exodus 21:8: "If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money." Leviticus 19:20-22: "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him." Leviticus 25:39: "And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubilee: And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return." Deuteronomy 21:10-14: "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her [i.e. rape her or engage in consensual sex], and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her." Deuteronomy 20:14"But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself" After reading those, we realize that maidservant and manservant are words for slave so if you accept the 10th commandment to be either: Exodus 20:17"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's." Deuteronomy 5:21"Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbor. Then you are accepting slavery if you accept the 10 commandments as Deuteronomy 5:1-21 and Exodus 20:1-17. The New Testament is not quite so harsh on slaves: 1 Corinthians 12:13: "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." Galatians 3:28:"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Colossians 3:11: "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." 1 Timothy 6:1-3 "Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;" Luke 12:45-48: "The lord [owner] of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him." Yes, the Bible is a very interesting, especially if you actually read it.

Carol, you are trying to confuse me. Right? You say But Exodus and Deuteronomy are in the "Old Testament". :faint:

I am always heartened when I see or hear of people of have been there, speaking out against what has taken place. BuSh was on TV Wednesday claiming that we are winning as this month's death toll continued to climb at a pace that may reach or break the all-time high for this conflict. He says he feels the pain of the families who have lost loved ones in Iraq. He claims to feel the pain of the families who worry about their loved ones in Iraq. Then why doesn't he ask the twins; Barbara and Jenna to enlist and volunteer for duty in Iraq? It would not make the Invasion of Iraq right, but then I would know he truly feels the pain.

We should all have both sympathy for the victimized children and empathy for the children and the victimizer. We who can not control our weight although it is killing us to eat, should realize that we are powerless without a higher authority to help ourselves. No! I am not excusing anyone who commits these terrible acts. But set up a mirror (mental or physical) and watch yourself eat (or run a taped version in your mind of yourself eating pre-Lap-Band). I know, we can say, "but I never hurt anyone else". Didn't we? Didn't we hurt our spouse, parents, children (or whoever is applicable to each of our situations) by trying to kill ourselves with food? It is always easy to criticize and feel superior to other people because our faults are not as bad as their's. "I only drink, but I don't do drugs." "I just hang out with the guys (girls), but I don't cheat on my spouse." "I only bet on baseball, not the horses." "I can quit smoking anytime I want." "OK, so I cheated, but she wasn't underage." We all have our failings which we can overlook, but we can not condone others who have failings. Yes, child molestation is worse than many other failings, but what are we going to do about it? Read the numbers I posted a while back. I applaud JQPublic for saying he will tell the truth and ask that his friend be giving medical care. I doubt that the judge will follow JQPublic's suggestion and he will probably sentence Eric to hard-time where he will learn more about being a criminal and maybe even learn not to leave any evidence behind next time. That is how a pedophile becomes a murdering pedophile. They get angrier in prison. The anger in prison adds to the anger that they had which caused the molestation in the first place. I hope I am wrong and Eric pays his price to society and becomes a model citzen by totally changing his ways. Don't you? There but for the Grace of God...

One of the few Republicans now in congress who was in the military was John McCain. He is a great man (sometimes) according to his Republican brethren, but when BuSh was running against him in the 2000 presidential primaries, the same people who funded the attacks on John Kerry's Vietnam war record, also fund attacks that said that McCain had collaborated with the Viet Cong while a prisoner in North Vietnam.

I had voice recognition software, but it always argued with me.:faint:

Iraqi Government Over-Thrown in Military Coup That may be the plan, but it will have to wait until the US votes in the 2006 Mid-term Elections*. November 7, 2006

Longwinded?? How about "fingered-tired"??

While you should not encourage any relationship between your friend and the caretaker, unless they ask to sleep over and share the same bed in your home, you should leave judgment to a higher authority.

Some may now accuse me of Christian bashing or Bible bashing, but that is not my intention. My intention was to show that the Bible has so many contradictory and confusing verses, that to allow anyone to dictate his interpretation of the Bible to our law makers is a recipe for turmoil and havoc. The Holy Qur'an says (not a word for word quote) that Allah sent down messengers to different groups of people at different times. He sent down Moses to the Israelites, he sent Jesus during the time of the Roman empire, he sent down Noah at the time near the flood and others at other times. If the people listened and followed the lessons that the messenger sent down to them taught, they would live an internal life, but if they denied the lessons of their messenger, they would suffer the eternal fires. Because I am a Christian, I do not want my government telling me what my minister can preach, nor how he or I should interpret any verse from the "Old Testament" or the "New Testament", but I also do not want my minister telling my government to interfere with the teachings of another church, Mosque or Synagogue.

There were other tablets that Moses broke which also contained 10 commandments (or so they say): Exodus Chapter 34 1 The LORD said to Moses, "Cut two stone tablets like the former, that I may write on them the commandments which were on the former tablets that you broke. 2 Get ready for tomorrow morning, when you are to go up Mount Sinai and there present yourself to me on the top of the mountain. 3 No one shall come up with you, and no one is even to be seen on any part of the mountain; even the flocks and the herds are not to go grazing toward this mountain." 4 Moses then cut two stone tablets like the former, and early the next morning he went up Mount Sinai as the LORD had commanded him, taking along the two stone tablets. 5 Having come down in a cloud, the LORD stood with him there and proclaimed his name, "LORD." 6 Thus the LORD passed before him and cried out, "The LORD, the LORD, a merciful and gracious God, slow to anger and rich in kindness and fidelity, 7 continuing his kindness for a thousand generations, and forgiving wickedness and crime and sin; yet not declaring the guilty guiltless, but punishing children and grandchildren to the third and fourth generation for their fathers' wickedness!" 8 Moses at once bowed down to the ground in worship. 9 Then he said, "If I find favor with you, O Lord, do come along in our company. This is indeed a stiff-necked people; yet pardon our wickedness and sins, and receive us as your own." 10 "Here, then," said the LORD, "is the covenant I will make. Before the eyes of all your people I will work such marvels as have never been wrought in any nation anywhere on earth, so that this people among whom you live may see how awe-inspiring are the deeds which I, the LORD, will do at your side. 11 But you, on your part, must keep the commandments I am giving you today. "I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Take care, therefore, not to make a covenant with these inhabitants of the land that you are to enter; else they will become a snare among you. 13 Tear down their altars; smash their sacred pillars, and cut down their sacred poles. 14 You shall not worship any other god, for the LORD is 'the Jealous One'; a jealous God is he. 15 Do not make a covenant with the inhabitants of that land; else, when they render their wanton worship to their gods and sacrifice to them, one of them may invite you and you may partake of his sacrifice. 16 Neither shall you take their daughters as wives for your sons; otherwise, when their daughters render their wanton worship to their gods, they will make your sons do the same. 17 "You shall not make for yourselves molten gods. 18 "You shall keep the feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days at the prescribed time in the month of Abib you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you; for in the month of Abib you came out of Egypt. 19 "To me belongs every first-born male that opens the womb among all your livestock, whether in the herd or in the flock. 20 The firstling of an ass you shall redeem with one of the flock; if you do not redeem it, you must break its neck. The first-born among your sons you shall redeem. "No one shall appear before me empty-handed. 21 "For six days you may work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; on that day you must rest even during the seasons of plowing and harvesting. 22 "You shall keep the feast of Weeks with the first of the wheat harvest; likewise, the feast at the fruit harvest at the close of the year. 23 Three times a year all your men shall appear before the Lord, the LORD God of Israel. 24 Since I will drive out the nations before you to give you a large territory, there will be no one to covet your land when you go up three times a year to appear before the LORD, your God. 25 "You shall not offer me the blood of sacrifice with leavened bread, nor shall the sacrifice of the Passover feast be kept overnight for the next day. 26 "The choicest first fruits of your soil you shall bring to the house of the LORD, your God. "You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk." 27 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with them I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." 28 So Moses stayed there with the LORD for forty days and forty nights, without eating any food or drinking any Water, and he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. 29 As Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the commandments in his hands, he did not know that the skin of his face had become radiant while he conversed with the LORD. 30 When Aaron, then, and the other Israelites saw Moses and noticed how radiant the skin of his face had become, they were afraid to come near him. 31 Only after Moses called to them did Aaron and all the rulers of the community come back to him. Moses then spoke to them. 32 Later on, all the Israelites came up to him, and he enjoined on them all that the LORD had told him on Mount Sinai. 33 When he finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face. 34 Whenever Moses entered the presence of the LORD to converse with him, he removed the veil until he came out again. On coming out, he would tell the Israelites all that had been commanded. 35 Then the Israelites would see that the skin of Moses' face was radiant; so he would again put the veil over his face until he went in to converse with the LORD. Some Hebrew historians* claim that Exodus 34 contains the original 10 Commandments which break down as this: Second Tables of Stone (Exodus 34) ("the words that were on the first") 1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god). 2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods. 3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn. 4. All the first-born are mine. 5. Six days shalt thou work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest. 6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end. 7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread. 8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning. 9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God. 10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk. *K. Budde, History of Ancient Hebrew Literature

Since the 10 commandments are spread between many verses of both Exodus and Deuteronomy, it is obvious (at least to me) that they could have been called 12 or 14 commandments. They are not numbered numbered as commandment one, commandment two, etc. Why not use the following as Ten Commandments? They are all legitimately from the Bible. Ten Punishments (Let's post these in the schoolroom!) 1. Exodus 22:20: He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed. 2. Leviticus 24:16: And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death. 3. Exodus 31:15: Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 4. Exodus 21:15: He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. 5. Exodus 21:17: He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death. 6. Exodus 22:19: Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. 7. Leviticus 20:13: If a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. 8. Leviticus 20:10: And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. 9. Mark 16:16: He that believeth not, shall be damned. 10. Malachi 2:1-4: And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. If you will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart to give glory to my name, ... behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces. It seems like quite a few of our Republican voting bretheren (and sistren too) would go along with #7, but they may have objections to a few of the others.

See, now we are back to Burkas.:faint:

Sorry to point out that your wrong about the racial issue. I just moved from Brooklyn NY a few years ago and before I left, I noticed a phenomena in my son's mostly Italian-American neighborhood. Some called them guidos and some called them wiggers, but their pants were dropping just as low as the stereotypical Black kids of my neighborhood. The funny part of it was that though my neighborhood was 90% Black, it was over 60% West Indian (or Caribean) Blacks. They do not (in general) wear drooping pants. So it turned out that there was a higher percentage of young males in my son's 95% white neighborhood than in my 90% Black neighborhood who's pants were falling off.

Exodus 20:1-17 Deuteronomy 5:1-22 Exodus 20:1-17 is 17 verses. How do you get 10 commandments out of 17 verses? Deuteronomy 5:1-22 is 22 verses. How do you get 10 commandments out of 22 verses? Are the commandments longer in Deuteronomy than in Exodus? I don't see 10 commandments in either Exodus or Deuteronomy. And I don't see any commandments about same sex unions.

JQPublic poured his heart out and he needs our support. Many have decided to say things like, we feel for you, or you are in my prayers, I know you are going through a terrible time. Some have offered suggestions such as testify, don't testify, help, don't help. And some have said that they would have Eric executed or castrated or they would personally rip him to shreds. I have decided to show some (of what I consider) insight into the molestation situation. I shared some personal experiences and told of ideas to help the problems we face as individuals and as a nation. As a person who just lost a niece because of the aftermath of molestation, I have a certain amount of empathy for JQPublic. I was at the funeral when people wished me the best for my loss. I watched her uncle consoled by people who didn't know he was directly related to the cause of her death. If he had molested my children, I would have felt no different about him, because I don't expect others to forgive while seeking retribution for myself. JQPublic, my heart goes out to you and I hope you testify and speak the truth at the hearing. I wonder if your pain is because of the feeling of being stabbed in the back by your friend or it is some other reason. Whatever it is, I feel for you. I hope my writings have helped you. Getting things out in the light is the best disinfectant.

When you are wearing Burkas, just remember that it started with laws to determine what is the right hight of a man's pants.

Can you point out to me where the 10 commandments are? I can not find them in my Bible.

Rush has a huge following. Anytime I hear 2 or 3 very conservative people that I associate with, use the same "exact phrase" to MIS-represent something or some point of view, I check and sure enough; Rush started using that "exact phrase" on yesterday's show and you can also be sure that Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hanitty will be using it also. Rush Limbaugh Bill O'Reilly Sean Hanitty Ann Coulter All on the Rupert Murduch Payroll and all helping to control US politics. They are also the people who are in favor of continuing the Iraq war and were the people who were in favor of the invasion of Iraq. They worry about the death of embryos, but condone the death of US troops and Iraqi civilians brought about by this tragic war. Might be better in another thread, but here are some interesting facts: Rupert Murdoch was not a US citizen until his 50's and did not serve in the US Military. Neither did the four named celebrities. Here is an interest list of people who did or did not serve in the military, yet have so much influence over the US war effort in Iraq: Democrats: * Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71. * David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72. * Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72. * Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade. * Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam. * Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII. * John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts. * Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea. * Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam. * Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53. * Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74. * Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91. * Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. * Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal. * Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit. * Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart. * Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star. * Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57 * Chuck Robb: Vietnam * Howell Heflin: Silver Star * George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII. * Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received #311. * Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. * Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953 * John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters. * Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg. Republicans -- and these are the guys sending people to war: * Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage. * Dennis Hastert: did not serve. * Tom Delay: did not serve. * Roy Blunt: did not serve. * Bill Frist: did not serve. * Mitch McConnell: did not serve. * Rick Santorum: did not serve. * Trent Lott: did not serve. * John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business. * Jeb Bush: did not serve. * Karl Rove: did not serve. * Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism. * Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve. * Vin Weber: did not serve. * Richard Perle: did not serve. * Douglas Feith: did not serve. * Eliot Abrams: did not serve. * Richard Shelby: did not serve. * Jon! Kyl: did not serve. * Tim Hutchison: did not serve. * Christopher Cox: did not serve. * Newt Gingrich: did not serve. * Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor. * George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty. * Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies. * B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea. * Phil Gramm: did not serve. * John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. * Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve. * John M. McHugh: did not serve. * JC Watts: did not serve. * Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years. * Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard. * Rudy Giuliani: did not serve. * George Pataki: did not serve. * Spencer Abraham: did not serve. * John Engler: did not serve. * Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer. * Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base. Pundits, Judges & Preachers * Sean Hannity: did not serve. * Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.') * Bill O'Reilly: did not serve. * Michael Savage: did not serve. * George Will: did not serve. * Chris Matthews: did not serve. * Paul Gigot: did not serve. * Bill Bennett: did not serve. * Pat Buchanan: did not serve. * John Wayne: did not serve. * Bill Kristol: did not serve. * Kenneth Starr: did not serve. * Antonin Scalia: did not serve. * Clarence Thomas: did not serve. * Ralph Reed: did not serve. * Michael Medved: did not serve. * Charlie Daniels: did not serve. * Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot back.)

It is easy to say, “lock them up and throw away the key”. It is easy to say, “castrate them or execute them”. It is easy to say, “let me at them. I'll kill them myself”. But there are an estimated 10,000,000 of them out there. 90% or 9,000,000 are unknown except to their victims. Some personal observations: The uncle that molested my niece is the nicest guy in the world (or so it would seem). If I invited any LBT member to my home and we had a large get together, this church going man would be the last person guessed as a pedophile. There are 9,000,000 more just like him out there. From 12 step meetings that I have attended, like “Over-Eaters Anonymous”, “Al-Anon” and “Codependents Anonymous”, I have come across many victims of pedophilia. Believe it or not, I can be a very good listener and I have had many platonic female relationships in which women have told me of being molested as children. The numbers are staggering. We already have the largest prison system in the world. It would need to be 5 times larger than it already is. I guess if we do away with Medicare and Social Security, or the “Department of Defense” we could afford the prisons. Or we could build a new “Roman Coliseum” and have them fight to the death or feed them to alligators and lions. Or we could castrate them, but some that have been castrated have raped with broom-sticks or Coke bottles. The experts say that they can not be rehabilitated. My guess is that there are some that can't, but some that can. My best friend became a crack addict. She went through a rehab and went back to her habit within weeks. But then she went through a program that had one of the highest success rates in the USA; over 65%. My niece went through that same program and was one of the 35% of the failures, as was my best friend's ex-husband who she met in after-care. But she and her new husband are each clean now for 14 years. The first thing that the new governor of NY did when he got into office was cut funding for that institute and state colleges, while increasing funding for prison construction. The program that saved my friend and her new husband had to cut their program from 60 days to 30 days because of the budget cuts. Their success rate has suffered. My point about drug rehabilitation is that many say that it doesn't work, but many have a vested interest in making sure it doesn't work. Cutting the funding for drug rehabilitation guarantees more drug addicts and more drug crime. Over half the people in prison are there for drug related crimes. So by cutting the rehab budget, there would be a need for more prisons. Why didn't the new governor of NY increase the budget for rehab and then maybe NY would have needed less prisons? He claimed to be an anti-crime in his campaign, but by cutting the budget, he allowed more crimes, but more punishment. The same may be true of sex offenders. Most people who claim that rehabilitation does not work are looking at studies of people who were in jail and went for one hour a week or a people who were treated on the outside and went an hour or two a week. The people who went to by friend's rehabilitation facility went for counseling 8 hours a day, 6 days a week and had homework. Why don't we try that on sex offenders? If we caught all 10,000,000 of them and made them register, there would be no-place to house them, so a better solution is needed. Part of my two part solution is not going to stop many of the sex offenders now, because they still have to be caught to be treated. The other part is to have counseling for convicted sex offenders similar to what my friend went through for her crack addiction; 8 hours a day, 6 days a week while in a mental health facility dedicated to rehabilitation. The other part is to identify the children that will become the next generation of sex offenders. We need group therapy type sessions in elementary schools and middle schools for every child. You may laugh, but while identifying the sex offenders of the future in time for counseling to be affective, we might also pick out the bullies of the future and the children who go on to be the “Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold's” of the future. I know that my idea will never be put into practice. There will be religious arguments against it and there will be money concerns, but can we keep building prisons and jails, and warehousing about one of every 130 people in the USA? About one out of every 75 males are in jail or prison right now. If we could find and lock up every pedophile, we would have one out of every 15 males in prisons or jails. Pedophilia is not something new. It is not caused by the internet. It is our hidden secret. We can keep it hidden or we can try to eradicate it. We can try to eradicate it by incarceration or by eliminating it before it happens. We can show mercy for the victims and we can reduce the number of victims. But we can not threaten castration, execution, life imprisonment and/or a life marked by registration and harassment, if we expect to be able to treat people for their illness. No, I do not want pedophiles living near me. But they are. About 90% of them have no record and they are among us. Congressman Mark Foley was one of the biggest advocates of “get tough on sex offenders”, but he was one of them. There are no easy solutions. Punishment is the easy answer. Punishment does not work. We must think of a better way.

My wife bought a "Tony Little Gazelle" eleptical trainer at a yard-sale. It is a pain in the butt to move around and it doesn't seem (2me IMHO) to provide much benefit as a workout. Does anyone here have one? Does it do any good if used regularly?

Yes, molested people often become molesters, but a relative of mine recently died of AIDS because she was prostituting herself to supply her coke habit. It was not until after her second attempt at rehab that this under 40 mother of 6 blurted out that an uncle had been raping her from the time she was 7 to the time she was 21. I have belonged to quite a few 12 step groups over the years and they are populated to a large extent with sexually abused adults who were abused as children. Some take out their abuse by abusing others, either sexually, violently or at best verbally, and some abuse themselves with drugs or alcohol. This idea that some people are just evil makes no sense to me, especially when people also claim to believe in personal responsibility. If God decides who is born evil and who is not, then it is God's fault for my relative to have been a prostitute and it is God's fault that some people are pedophiles. If it is personal responsibility, then though it is the fault of the offender, it may be caused by external forces beyond the control of the offender. I know of a family of many siblings who were mistreated brutally by their parents. Some responded by never disciplining their children and spoiling them. Some responded by being as brutal as their parents were to them. None of them raised children to be responsible adults because they each reacted to the trauma they bore as children. Children are not equipped to handle traumatic experiences as adults are (or at least should be). My niece was not born evil. I used to comfort her to sleep when she was months old (while my fiancee and I baby-sat her and her brothers) and she cried and cried instead of sleeping in her crib. I would wait until she fell off to sleep before putting her in the crib. Sometimes she would wake up as I put her in the crib and I would wind up with her under my arm for the entire night as I slept on the living room couch. No, she wasn't born evil. It was her uncle who molested her and for all I know, he might have been molested as a child. Just because it was kept quiet in the past, does not mean that it wasn't prevalent in “the good old days”. And no, it is not just my family that has this problem. Do the math. There is over a half million sex abusers in the registries. There is about an equal number still in prison. That is at least one million people. The estimate is that only 10% of sex offenses are reported. If that is true then there are 10,000,000 pedophiles out there. Another estimate is that 1 to 5% of the population has sexually abused children. That would be from 3 to 15 million. Whatever the exact numbers, it is a problem too big to ignore or pretend doesn't exist. It is also too big to lock everyone up or to execute everyone.

I hear people saying "He is sick and should be punished." In another thread in this section of LBT, someone writes about the Dr. Phil house (TV show) and the people who are "sick" because of their prejudices. It is easy to single out people who are "sick". If I had cancer, would you want me punished? Just about everybody (except for people who will read this and say that I deserve to die for my attitude) would say no. If I was an alcoholic, would you want me punished? Many would say yes, because I should be able to control myself, BUT, many others would say, "no, it is a sickness and he needs help". I am FAT, do you want me punished? Many would say yes, because I should be able to control myself and do punish me in the form of discrimination, BUT, others would say, "no, it is a sickness and he needs help". If I was a pedophile, would you want me punished? Most people would say yes, because I should be able to control myself, AND, few others would say, "no, it is a sickness and he needs help". Why? Because of the victim? Do we abuse alcohol or eating because we have emotional problems? Does a pedophile abuse children because of an emotional problem? Many if not all pedophiles were abused as children. "Who cares?", I hear. They have to take responsibility. But if you are reading this, you probably have a Lap-Band, but if gastric bypass surgery had not been invented, the same could be said about you (and me). Should we give this(or any) pedophile a medal, or should we coddle him (or her)? NO! Of course not. Should he be separated from society? Of course! But not in a prison where the other inmates are not sick, but in a mental health facility where he should get counseling 8 hours per day, not the one hour per week as he would get in a prison. And these Megan's law are one of the first steps toward all of us losing our freedom. If pedophiles were handled as sick people requiring medical treatment instead of as criminals, we would not have the specter of the government punishing people even after they have finished their sentence. If a person is still sick, they belong in treatment. When a person is no longer sick, they deserve to be free. Treat pedophiles and help them, because they are suffering the same way we suffer. While we are feeding our faces, we are in Heaven, but soon after we return to the Hell of knowing our failure. Do not doubt that many pedophiles go through that same situation. We are sick and they are sick, and it is a medical health problem in each case. All those wishing that I would die of cancer can now respond.

Yes, the USA definitely needs to stand up to the extremists. It is about time that the Christian fundamentalist extremists learn that the USA is a country of laws and that the Christian Bible can not over-rule the Constitution of the United States. When the members of the UnChristian Never-Right political movement learn that simple idea, the USA will be a better place to live.