Tired_Old_Man

You are putting us on, right? The Prince is not the Prince of darkness, but there is not that much difference. Most people would be insulted if compared with Machiavelli or if their policies were called Machiavellian. If you are not putting us on, then would you agree that Karl Rove is a Machiavellian character?

It looks like all the post from yestderday are missing. I was posting on LBT until I left around noon (Eastern USA time) yesterday. When I got home at 5 pm, LBT was not reachable, nor was it reachable until about noon today. All the posts that I made yesterday morning in about 4 or 5 threads are gone as are a lot that were made by other members. This thread was very active during the early AM hours on the 1st. Goodby posts!! :faint:

I would have provided more details, but I couldn't find any links except to a site that I would have had to pay $$ for the archived article. I remember what happened, but did not want to be too precise, lest my memory set me up for a falling.

That link is to a right-wing Christian organization. Of course, you could have given a link to the Texas Republican's website ot the Republican National Committee, but it might have been nice to supply a link to non-partisan sites like the State of Texas voter information page or VOTEXAS which is another site provided by the state of Texas. Or maybe the League of Women's Voters for Texas.

Apollo 1 Apollo 13 Challenger Columbia These disasters were tragedies caused by human nature. The reason that the Challenger blew up was that Morton Thiokol submitted an inferior design to NASA and even though it was the worst of the 5 designs for the booster rockets, it won the contract because the wife of a big shot in NASA was a member of the same church as the head of Morton Thiokol. NASA knew that the "O-rings" had problems with low temperature, but under the pressure of meeting schedule, they launched and 7 people paid the ultimate price.

My wife and I voted today at about 2pm. The lines were long and it took almost an hour. The poll monitor said that they have been packed all day, every day. My wife feels so proud. It was the first time in her life that she has voted for someone in a real election. She became a US Citizen about 18 months ago and since then, she has only voted for referendums and in the primary. I have been voting for 40 years and this may be the most important election of my life. Checks and Balances must be re-established.

It is easy to quote stories about people getting reduced rate lunches or help from the government and driving Cadillacs or having expensive wheels on their cars, but did anyone stop to think why. Is it possible that the really rich and powerful like to pit the middle-class against the poor, so that they can get away with (just short of) murder? President Richard Nixon used to make a point of talking about the nobility of work. But then he pushed bills through congress that lowered the tax on every kind of earnings except those gotten from work. If a man worked two jobs back then at $6 an hour and made $25,000 in a year, his tax burden would be twice that of a man who had bought a house for $100,000 and sold it for $125,000 making $25,000 profit. Why? Because Nixon pushed through a “capital gains” tax that cut your capital gains (on profits) tax in half. Who worked harder? The man who worked 80 hours per week or the one who bought a house, held it for a few years and then sold it? They did the same thing with profit on stocks. Working people were penalized for "working". People tell me that the CEO of this company or that deserves to make big money because he works hard. When Nixon put a price and wage freeze into effect for a few years in the late 60's/early 70's, the CEO and President of the company that I worked for were allowed to get raises for 3 consecutive years each, which were larger (each year) than my (frozen) gross per year. And they never got their hands dirty or broke a sweat. And the company lost millions of dollars each year. So why were they getting raises? Why does a worker making $25 per hour sound over-paid? But an executive making $100,000 a year sound ok? If they made $100,000 per year, I would not bitch, but some are making $100,000,000 a year. The man who just retired as the CEO of Exxon-Mobil gets such a large retirement that if someone offered him the next 104 winning Florida Lottery tickets in return for his retirement money, he would be insulted. To regular people, hitting the lottery is a life altering event, but to the people that own this country, it is less than a week's pay. Bill Gates has averaged over a $2,500,000 a day since the minute he was born. How many people on this forum are near retirement and have not earned $1,000,000 in their entire life? How many people on this forum are near retirement and have not earned $2,000,000 in their entire life? That is less than Bill Gates' daily income. How can one man work that hard? Obviously he can't. It takes the government passing laws to protect him and then protecting him. Bill Gates has a program written for him and then his company sells that program and if anybody copies that program, the government prosecutes them for copyright infringement. Does the government protect you that way? People make transactions and then get paid over and over for it. I used to be an aircraft mechanic. If I changed the auto-pilot on a 747, I got paid $25 for the hour it took me to change it. I didn't get paid each time the pilot used his auto-pilot on every subsequent flight. So the government protects some people's income more than others. OK, I can live with that. The government probably taxes them for that extra protection. Not anymore. The maximum tax rate has been dropping and dropping. In the 1950's, when the USA experienced unprecedented economic growth, the highest tax bracket was 90%. Now it is 1/3 of that. An aircraft mechanic and his wife (who is a nurse) pay the same percentage of their income in taxes as Bill Gates or Oprah. Some people are still pissed off about the welfare cheats. Well, maybe the reason for welfare cheats is that the government dropped the number of case workers who used to check for cheating. That way the middle-class can fight the poor, while the rich get richer. The wealthiest one half of one percent of the people in this country own more that the lowest 95% of the country combined. Think about that next time you see someone getting over on food stamps.

I have nothing very fancy to show anyone about the quiz that I asked you to participate in. But here we go: Some answered "yes" to both questions and some answered "yes & no" or "no and yes". It doesn't matter. Some answered “yes, but I am trying not to be.” The reason for my test was to show something about language. I asked #1. Are you prejudiced? #2. Do you discriminate? But most, if not all of you heard: #1. Are you prejudiced against other races or other ethnic groups, etc? #2. Do you discriminate against other races or other ethnic groups, etc? The reason is that words have a real definition and a connotative definition. My answers: #1. Is TOM prejudiced? Of course. When I go into a restaurant for the first time and they have steak and liver on the menu, I choose steak. That is prejudice. I have never had that steak before, but I am sure that I am going to like it more that I would like the liver. #2. Does TOM discriminate? Of course. I just discriminated against the liver. Well, if someone from today's society was translating a book from 500 years ago and came across the word Prejudice, he might add that late twentieth century connotation of race into his translation. Today, when we hear the word "intercourse", we automatically add the word "sexual" to it. I remember studying the war of 1812 in history in JHS and we learned about a "Non-intercourse act". No wonder they were fighting a war, they could not relieve their tension with sex. And here is the Prologue to Beowulf, a Poem written in England around 1000 years ago. Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum, þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon, hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon. Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum, 5 monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah, egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð feasceaft funden, he þæs frofre gebad, weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah, oðþæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra 10 ofer hronrade hyran scolde, gomban gyldan. þæt wæs god cyning! Ðæm eafera wæs æfter cenned, geong in geardum, þone god sende folce to frofre; fyrenðearfe ongeat 15 þe hie ær drugon aldorlease lange hwile. Him þæs liffrea, wuldres wealdend, woroldare forgeaf; Beowulf wæs breme (blæd wide sprang), Scyldes eafera Scedelandum in. 20 Swa sceal geong guma gode gewyrcean, fromum feohgiftum on fæder bearme, þæt hine on ylde eft gewunigen wilgesiþas, þonne wig cume, leode gelæsten; lofdædum sceal 25 in mægþa gehwære man geþeon. Him ða Scyld gewat to gescæphwile felahror feran on frean wære. Hi hyne þa ætbæron to brimes faroðe, swæse gesiþas, swa he selfa bæd, 30 þenden wordum weold wine Scyldinga; leof landfruma lange ahte. þær æt hyðe stod hringedstefna, isig ond utfus, æþelinges fær. Aledon þa leofne þeoden, 35 beaga bryttan, on bearm scipes, mærne be mæste. þær wæs madma fela of feorwegum, frætwa, gelæded; ne hyrde ic cymlicor ceol gegyrwan hildewæpnum ond heaðowædum, 40 billum ond byrnum; him on bearme læg madma mænigo, þa him mid scoldon on flodes æht feor gewitan. Nalæs hi hine læssan lacum teodan, þeodgestreonum, þon þa dydon 45 þe hine æt frumsceafte forð onsendon ænne ofer yðe umborwesende. þa gyt hie him asetton segen geldenne heah ofer heafod, leton holm beran, geafon on garsecg; him wæs geomor sefa, 50 murnende mod. Men ne cunnon secgan to soðe, selerædende, hæleð under heofenum, hwa þæm hlæste onfeng. Yes! We had to read that in Senior's English class in high school. That is English as spoken by the anchestors of the people who settled this country. What I have hoped to show is though the Bible may have been inspired by God, a lot has happened to his words since then. Some of what has happened has been benevolent mistranslations or transcipt copying, but some has been maliscious tampering by emporas and kings (or queens). Some of the problems of the meanings of the bible has to do with the prejudices (not racial) of the translators. Some with the prejudices of people who want to keep their family in power and control of the masses. I hope that I didn't disappoint anyone with my little experiment.

I wonder if you ladies would go along with an experiment with me? Please quote me by clicking the blue "Quote" button on the lower right and then answer two questions. I promise not to use your answers against you but I want to show you (all) something. #1. Are you prejudiced? #2. Do you discriminate?

Much like Saddam Hussein united Iraq?.

If This Is the Use of God then we need more atheists.

Same here!!! :help:

I used to go to college fraternity parties. Lots of booze and sex. Well I guess all college kids are going to Hell. I don't want to embarrass anyone, but I heard that there are only two kinds of people in the world, those that admit masterbating and those that don't admit it. Oh, and those parts about thieves and extortioners; I guess all of congress is going to Hell also. I guess the effeminate people will have a lot of company in Hell.

Where would we end up if we followed my morals instead of that Christian president and his Christian Congress? *We would not have almost 3,000 dead US military personal in Iraq. *We would not have over 20,000 US military personal with injuries received in Iraq. *We would not have over 10,000 US military personal with life changing crippling injuries received in Iraq. *We would have more money available for food Stamps to feed starving babies. *We would have more money available for poor people's health care under the Medicaid program. *We would have more money available for the elderly people's health care under the Medicare program. *We would have more Rx drugs available at much lower prices for the elderly people through the Medicare program. *We would have a higher minimum wage. *We would not be torturing people suspected of illegal actions. *We would trying to protect the planet God created for us from pollution and Global Warming. *We would pass more laws to help the poor than the rich. *We would not be spending our grand-children's money by borrowing trillions of dollars. I could go on and on, but I guess you are right, if I substituted my morals for those espoused by those of a man who gets his marching orders from Jesus, then we would be in a terrible mess. :faint: But the Mormons base polygamy on the Bible. That is not a law we passed. That is the free will given by God to his children. Or do you believe that we do not have will and that God knows everything we will ever do and planned our life for us? If the population of your town or neighborhood had a sudden influx of Buddhists and they became the majority, would you like it for them to pick out the prayers to be said in school each day? There you go again trying to confuse me. You say that you believe in the 10 commandments and you say that the 10 commandments are in Exodus and Deuteronomy, but then you say that the Old Testament is "no longer valid". Exodus and Deuteronomy are in the "no longer valid" Old testament. The new Testament condones slavery also. You can steal my husband anytime you want him. Most Athiests, jews and Muslims that I know also would not rape, rob or murder. Most of the people in US prisons are Christians. Most of the people who commit adulty in the USA are Christians. I have one question for you and all others who think that we must have a Bible or a God: If something happened tomorrow to prove that there never was a God; Would you steal my husband, rape me, murder me, rob me, molest my grand-children or beat me? I didn't think so.

Some people ask me if I believe the bible was divinely inspired. Let's stipulate that the bible was divinely inspired. But is it not fair to ask if it was divinely translated? But is it not fair to ask if it was divinely transcribed? But is it not fair to ask if it was divinely interpreted? But is it not fair to ask if the choice of which books to include was divinely inspired? How come the Jewish version of what the Christians call the "Old Testament", has sections that are not in the "Old Testament"? How come the Christian's "Old Testament" has sections that are not in the Jewish version of the "Old Testament"? How come Constantine, originally a Pagan emperor of Rome hand-picked a commission to decide what sections went into the bible and what didn't go into the bible? How come at least two English queens and two English kings made revisions in what has become the Christian Bible? Did you know that the Roman Catholics, the Protestants and the Jews each have different versions of the 10 Commandments?

The Bible is true. It is True because God wrote it. I know God wrote it because the Bible says so. AND The Bible is true.

Jodie, you have a right to your opinion. Some politicians require that voters have a lack of compassion for the poor and they circulate Republican lines about how wonderful it is to be poor. One of our vice presidents told us that the homeless like it that way. Many politicians suggest that the poor have it all. Or at least get it all. Maybe the reason that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are giving all their money away is so that they can qualify for all the goodies that the poor get from the government. :faint: In case you don't know it, Social Security does more than protect people from being broke when they retire. If a man is killed, his family is entitled to Survivor Benefits until the children are 18. Anyone who thinks that is not important should try walking in the moccasins of a young window who has to raise three children after her husband ties of a freak accident or a unexpected illness. My friend with 3 children died at 21 of a heart attack. He didn't have life insurance because, "who needs insurance at 21?" My father died on the day after I was born in 1945. Social Security was the difference between starving and surviving for my mother and me. And then there is disability insurance. Yes, as a savings plan, SS is not the best, but when you add up the Medical plan for the aged (Medicare) and the other benefits I mentioned, it is a bargain. The only reason that SS is having a problem now is that Ronald Reagan began combining the SS money with the General tax revenue in the early 1980's. Combining might be called stealing if I was less polite. The USA owes Social Security about 2 trillion dollars. Of course the 11 commandment is "Thou Shalt NOT RAISE TAXES", so the Republicans do not want to repay the money and come up with all kinds of schemes spread all kinds of lies to get out of paying back the money they used to lower taxes. Oh, I forgot, they really didn't lower your taxes that much, but Bill Gates' and Warren Buffet's taxes were cut by billions during BuSh's 6 years. And as far as state taxes are concerned. Find a chart that lists the state tax rates. Then find another chart that ranks income per capita. Then find one that ranks educational levels. Then find one that ranks rate of divorce. Then find one that ranks rate of marriage. You will find that the states with the highest tax rates have the highest marriage rates, the best educated children, the best educated adults, the best medical care, the highest standard of living and the lowest divorce rates. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

TOM, Tim & Tina!! How's that for a menage a trois? :faint:

What took you so long to send the letter? You are about 13 years late!! :faint:

You lived in Sin? Many companies today give an unmarried partner (of the same or opposite gender) of an employee full coverage as if they were married. But the US government doesn't. So the Federal government is not giving equal treatment under the law. I am legally married to a women. But let's say that instead of loving Tina, I had loved Tim. In most states, if Tina and I had lived together but not gotten married, (within some time frame) the government of that state could have declared us married (by common law). In most states, if Tim and I had lived together, we could not have gotten married if we begged the state for it. Why do we allow the government to control us like that? They would force Tina and me to be married, but stop Tim and me from getting married. That does not sound like equal treatment under the law by state governments either. By the way, Tina and I will have to get divorced because she can no longer bear children, so there is no need for us to be married. :faint: If I were dying and in ICU, Tina could visit me, but Tim could not. If I died and left my money to Tina, no one could challenge it. But if I died after living with Tim for 40 years and raising 3 adopted children, and I left my money to Tim, any blood relative could challenge my will. If I die first, Tina will be able to collect a Social Security check under my account. If I die, Tim would not be able to collect a Social Security check under my account, even though our arrangement was for him to stay home and raise 3 children and take care of the house while I worked outside. I am sure all of you women know who really did the work in that family. This is a matter of fairness. The same arguments that are used against Gays now were used against Blacks and women in the past. Do you realize that during WW11, Blacks were not integrated into the Army? They had to fight in separate infantry devisions. The fear was that Blacks could not get along with whites and most of all, God forbid, a Black might have a higher rank than a white and the white might be required to take orders from the Black. The government also tried to stop Blacks from flying planes, but finally let some Blacks through flight school and the squadron of Black fighter pilots that was formed had the best record in the history of US aviation protecting US bombers on their flights to bomb the enemy. Women were "allowed" to ferry planes across the ocean to get them to the UK from whence they were launched to bomb the enemy. The US soldier did not win WW11. The people who stayed home and turned out the equipment were the ones who really won the war. And many of them were women (like "Rosie the riveter"). But who do they show as the heroes of WW11? White men!! When Clinton's infamous "Don't ask, Don't Tell" policy took effect in 1993, the top fighter pilot in the Air Force and the top fighter pilot in the Navy, each quit the service because they were gay. It was estimated that it took $20 million to train them. The US has lowered the standards for the military this year to meet their enlistment quotas. The military is taking in functional illiterates, people with questionable psychological and emotional problems and raised the age limit, while thousands of Gays who were trained, then booted out would be glad to return to service. Let's call it what it is. Discrimination. Let gays marry. If you oppose gay marriage, then don't marry someone of your own gender. I know that if Florida allows gay marriage, it will not break up the 39 year old marriage between Tina and I. Will your marriage break up if gays can marry? TOM Note: While I started this post with a quote from Belle and an attempt at humor, the questions were rhetorical and aimed at no one and everyone.

And while you are complaining about the people with less money than you, the people with 100's of times more money than you are so glad you think that way because they need your vote and everyone's vote who looks down to complain, rather than up to see the real problem.

My female friend, a very dark skinned Black woman would wear white bras underneath shear black blouses whenever my wife and I threw a party back in the 60's. We had our living room walls painted black and lit the room with 3 "black lights", so when our friend walked around or danced, all you could see was a bra floating around (just below a set of teeth). I am from the "old school" on this one. I only wear no color at all = WHITE.

At 61? I took Freshman English (English 101) in 1962. I remember coming back to my first class after lunch, Sophomore English (103) and being told that we would not be discussing Moby Dick because we would not be able to concentrate on it that day, so the professor dismissed the class. The date was November 22, 1963.

Thanks for the compliments (I guess). By the way, within the past two weeks, I saw a picture of BuSh meeting in the White House with many of the FOX (Fair & Balanced) News team and other media reporters who do the right-wing polka. I have been searching on-line for that picture. Does anyone remember seeing it and what show it was on?

I would never condemn any Holy Book; The Old Testament, The Dead Sea Scrolls, The Torah, The New Testament, nor the Qur'an or Koran. But people use verses out of these books for terrible things. I was watching a documentary on hate recently: 21st century Neo-Nazis in the USA, UK and Germany 21st century Skin Heads in the USA 20th Century KKK leaders Hitler were all shown quoting the Bible to validate their messages and actions of hate. Jefferson Davis, President of the US Confederacy during the civil war was quoted (with the use of an actor) using passages from the Bible to validate the Confederacy's message and actions of hate as far as justifying slavery and their treatment. And we all know how religious extremists have used their holy books to justify 911, the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem Witch Hunt, and many more. If we allow it, Gays will be persecuted in the USA just as they were in Nazi Germany and as the Neo-Nazis of today do, and it will all be based on the Bible for justification.