Tired_Old_Man

There is a large group of US Christians who are pro-Israel to the point of funding Israel's most right-wing political parties. They do not do it out of benevolence, but for a mean spirited cruel deceitful purpose. Their aim is to have Israel throw the Palestinians off the land that they now occupy, because these US Christians see that as the first step toward the countdown to Revelation Day. The pity is that they do not realize the "Revelations" does not belong in the Bible. Many scholars think that the "Book of Revelations" was a communication between Christians denouncing the Emperor of Rome, written in allegorical code, so that the writer would not be killed by the Romans. The emperor was probably either Domitian or Nero. Constantine was emperor of Rome about 250 years after "Revelations" was written and probably did not realize what it was, when his commission allowed it to be canonized as part of the Bible. Much like "Alice in Wonderland" and "Gulliver's Travels", it was political satire. But these 21st Century US Christians believe that after Israel takes over the land, there will be a 7 year war in which all but 144,000 Jews will be slaughtered. The 144,000 will be the Jews that accept Jesus as their savior and then get to go to Heaven on Judgment day along with the Evangelical Christians. All the others; all Baptists, all Roman Catholics and all the members of many other Christians Denominations will burn forever in the fires of Hell. Much of these ideas are based on the writings of John Nelson Darby from the 1830's who formulated the idea of the "Rapture". But lately they have been pushed to the forefront by Reverend Timothy LaHaye, one of the most influential leaders of the Christian right, and a man who played a quiet but pivotal role in putting George W. BuSh in the White House. Reverend LaHaye is renowned for his series of best-selling apocalyptic novels known as the "Left Behind" books (and movies). They are known as the "Left Behind" books because the sequence starts with (Darby's) "Rapture" in which all the good Christians are swept off Planet Earth leaving their clothing behind and flying off toward Heaven. When an Israeli official, who's right wing party benefits from the UnChristian Never-Right Political Movement's contribution to them was asked about the intended slaughter or conversion of Jews in the plans of the money contributors, he said that they (the Jewish right-wing party) would accept the money, but did not believe (or worry about) that the wars known as "The Tribulation" would be coming. Two groups, each playing the others for fools, each doing it using the name of God while advancing their political/religious agendas. Happy WW3.

Sounds great, but I don't think we can hack it right now.

I thought that ad was totally disgusting and should have immediately been removed and the sponsors censored. That kind of tripe doesn't belong in government. Mary It was removed, but then the media showed it over and over again, pretending to be disgusted at its content and implication. The USA will be the country that it pretends to be when an ad like that will have only the effect of dropping the person who put it on TV further down in the polls.

You have not dicussed theology other than saying your interpretation is right because it is the word of God. I am secure in my convictions and one of my convictions is that people like you are only around to abuse people by making them feel inferior you and to your all knowing understanding of Jesus. Like each of the 10 people I spoke about after my minister's guest sermon, they each knew that their way was the word of God. You are not number 1, you are just number 11. The other 10 would have all Known that your opinion was wrong.

By the way, the same thing would have happened again after the "Great Flood". There was neither enough humans, nor animals on the boat for a good variety of genes.

I was not abused personally, but you did abuse some of the others. Even now you feel righteous because YOU KNOW YOU ARE RIGHT, and you have the right to say what you want because Jesus is your enforcer. But, you were not arguing with atheists most of the time, but with Christians who are not as stubborn and cock sure of themselves as you are. And atheists don't come crawling out of the woodwork. They are not roaches as you imply, for if you really were a Christian, you would know that even an atheist is formed in the image of God. Like Hitler and KKK members, your use of religion disgusts me. And I find your use of the name of Jesus Christ to be blasphemes, treacherous and unholy.

What annoyed me the most was his comparison of this board (which means its membership) with Sodom. And his arragant attitude towards others that do not agree with his variety of Christionhood. Is Christianhood a word or should I have said "his version of Christianity". Recently I attended an interdenominational church service. My minister was the invited guest speaker and he was appreciated by many, but got some glares for some his statements during the sermon. Later, at a cake and coffee next to the meeting area, I spoke to some people. Each person I spoke to told me that members of my denomination would not go to Heaven unless we changed our ways to their way. But each person I spoke to told me that I would not go to Heaven, but neither would the people who spoke to me telling me I need to change my ways to theirs. In a nut-shell I spoke to about 10 people who each had the only way into Heaven and KNEW that none of the other 9 would be accepted.

By the way, Hitler was also a Christian. As were many members of the KKK. As was the President of the Confederate states of the USA who based his support of slavery on Biblical quotes. So claiming to be a Christian does not give anyone the right to act unChristian. Love and compassion were the cornerstones of the teachings of Christ, not war on the Muslims or Jews that do not accept him as a deity.

If I visit your website, will be permitted to abuse its members as much as you have abused the members here?

No one has ever said, except maybe some right wing phonies trying to distort the opposition's beliefs, that evolution turned one species into another already insisting species. We, human beings, came from primitive primates and so did monkeys, chimps and gorillas. Only the people who want to mock evolution, lie by claiming that Darwin said we came from monkeys.

Me thinks thou protest too much!!

If you don't mind a male joining this love fest, I would like to say that I generally agree with very much of what both you, Green and you, BJean write. BJean and I may have seemed to be at each other's throats on this issue, going back and forth, but though some may have inferred it, I did not assume nor insinuate that BJean is anything like Pat Buchanan, nor that she wants to exclude people from the USA's benefits or opportunities. I think that if BJean and I were sitting across a table having lunch or a cup of coffee, we would be agreeing on 99% of what each other say. The PC forum is a great way to exchange ideas, but it can not compare with direct conversation for nuance and interpretation of ideas. I also want the immigrants to be able to work, and to be able to prosper and have the same chance at promotion as any other citizen does. My biggest gripe with the BuSh plan for immigration was that immigrant guest workers would be tied to one sponsoring company, which could have him deported if he didn't kiss butt and allow abuse.

So you figure that Laurend is lower than a thief, liar or murderer? More of the Love you learned from the study of the teachings of Jesus, I assume.

Who do you think you are to compare us with Sodomites? Is that the Love and Compassion that you learned from the teachings of Jesus Christ?

Actually I do think that we should all have a common language in the USA and even though I am a liberal and liberals generally don't support English as a common language, I do. But, not because English is superior (as some people like to think), but because since more people in the USA speak English than any other language, it would be the easiest transition. My objection is to people who want to use the inability to speak English as a way to discriminate. Pat Buchanan who ran for president in the Republican Primaries in 1996 and 2000, wants to only let people who are white and come from English speaking countries to be able to legally migrate to the USA. But he is not prejudice, they say. If you go to Europe or many other places, or even airports and bus terminals in the USA, you will see signs in a universal language; pictures. When I first got into computers (early 1960's), it was required that people learn very intricate languages like Cobol and Fortran. Very few people became fluent, most people were not able to have the benefit of a computer and computers cost in the millions of dollars. Then someone at Stanford University and at the Palo Alto Research Center, got the idea of using pictures instead of words. People, then found it easier to use computers (because they did not have to learn the languages) and now most people own computers and are able to do things they never dreamed of doing, like writing this reply to your post, and PC's which have the power of computers that used to cost $5,000,000 can be bought for less than $500. All because we didn't get hung up on language. This country needs immigrants as workers and as consumers. We can help them learn English. They will melt in if they are not isolated into pockets by language or by fear of deportation. In the late 1950's, Brooklyn had a huge influx of Puerto Ricans. One of 5 people in my 6th grade class could not speak English. Today, many of the grand-children of my classmates can not speak Spanish. Many of them eat as much American food as traditional Puerto Rican food. I learned that I love Puerto Rican food. I benefited and they benefited. If immigrants are given a chance to become citizens, by first allowing them to get green cards and go through a citizenship process, they will gradually blend in. Here in Florida, about half the people I see on local TV shows (news for example) have Spanish surnames and they speak perfect English and would not be singled out as Spanish-Americans except by their name. I am Italian-American and when I go to many places to register for something, people start speaking to me in Spanish because my last name is spelled like it could be Spanish. There will always be flux. Whatever is changing always annoys some people who would like to keep the status quo. Sorry, but life moves on. Read the papers from the 1800's or 1900's. We have been here before, and we survived and thrived.

No, not the truth; "your truth". I will take it up with God, I hope.

My Allah? I happen to be a Christian who only read the Qur'an because I wanted to know what I was talking about BEFORE I shot my mouth off. It is you opinion, call it faith if you want, that Jesus is the son of God and that there is a Trinity. My opinion doesn't matter, but there are billions of people who are just as sure as you (their faith) that there is only one God and he has no son, no Holy Ghost. The God of Israel is the same God who spoke to Abraham and Abraham's sons are considered as the founders of the religions of Judaism and Islam.

And if you had read the whole book instead of pieces here and there, you would know that he was talking about the Jews and Christians who had turned their backs on their own faith. Like floods or destroying cities? This is true, but what is your point? It considers Jesus as just another prophet, and without divinity! Just because these names are used does not give it authority or value. I could write a book about the history of medicine, but that does not make me a doctor. So your problem is that the God of the Old Testament may be just like Allah, but Allah is not like Jesus? Do you think the God of the Old Testament is just like Jesus? God would have had to be Schizophrenic I sometimes wear a shirt that says on the front: "God might have been a conservative" and on the back, "But Jesus was definitely a Liberal". Follow the teachings of Christ but do not shove your belief in the trinity or that Jesus was a deity down everyone's throat. Be prepared to say I told you so, when the people you criticize are rejected from Heaven, but while on Earth, don't push people away who don't believe everything you believe in.

Let me see if I can spell this out for you. If you buy a ticket on American Airlines and then take the AA plane to Rome, when you get there the signs will not say Roma; they will say Roma. If you drive to Venice, the signs will not say Venice; they will say Venezia. If you want a glass of water, they will give you a bicchier d'acqua. Now here comes the hard part. If you ask a Arab or Muslim if he thinks that God is powerful, he may answer "Yes, Allah is all powerful, but merciful." Of course Allah is the same God as the Old Testament. Talking about Homework:

Neo-Cons and members of the UnChristian Never-Right Politcal Movement, Including BuSh, only believe in Science when in regards to advancing Warfare.

002.062: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. The word Allah is Arabic for "The God". If you had read the whole Qur'an, you would know that the human whose name is mentioned most in the Qur'an is Moses, followed by Noah and Jesus. Even Mary (the mother of Jesus) is mentioned more often than Mohammad. 002.053: And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (Between right and wrong): There was a chance for you to be guided aright.

Rick Warren wrote the book "Purpose Driven Life" and is the minister at one of the largest Christian mega-churches in the USA There was no specific list of which books would be accepted as the Bible until Conatantine started a commision to evaluate the different books for cannonization and then had 50 Bibles made up in 332AD. So George W. BuSh would not be a Christian by your standards.

The word theory means something entirely different when used in scientific and mathematical terms than when used in lay terms.

But there is a lot of antisemitism being directed at the Muslims of France, including new laws directed at their clothing. I wonder why you are so annoyed by the antisemitism against Jews, which are not anymore Christian than the Muslims of France, yet post nothing in complaint about the treatment of the Muslims of France. Doesn't seem either fair or logical to me.

Which of the different Christian groups are the cults. I have spoken to members and clergy from many different denominations and some basically say that any other denomination but theirs is a cult. Rick Warren says that only Evangelical (Born Again) Christians are God's Children, while he sells his video games to Christians so that they can get a chance at killing non-Christians and especially Muslims. BTW, Muslims who have read the "Holy Qur'an" accept Christians and Jews as God's children. I would almost say, "That is mighty Christian of them". Is that the Bible as put together by Constantine about 325 AD? Or what was decided at the "Council of Trent"? Or some other governing group?