Tired_Old_Man

The USA is one of only a handful of countries that uses the death penalty. Do a google and when you find out who the other countries are, you might want to take a shower.

Only WASP's have the right to be President of the USA. The voting public only made one mistake in the 230 years of electing presidents and look what happened, JFK a WASRC almost got us into a war with the Soviet Union and then got himself killed. When will we learn not to mess with the Rx for proper American government?:help:

Let me explain why I am so confused. I hope you know something about baseball. I am right-handed. When I was young, my step-father gave me a baseball glove for my birthday. He said, pointing to one of my hands: "This is the right hand to wear the glove on." And then pointing to my other hand, he said: "And this is the hand that is left to throw the ball.":faint:

Or it could be that all of the three bubbles are true, but that God is playing a war game with us as the toy soldiers. But there is no evidence of that, so I guess I am delusional.:faint:

A group called the "Institute for Historical Review" was founded in 1978. One of its founding members wrote a book suggested that the Holocaust was an exaggeration and that it was not anywhere near as large in scope or as evil as most Americans had been taught to believe. The bibliography of the book was sparse. A year later, another founder of the "Institute for Historical Review" (IHR) wrote a book with similar contentions and it used the above book in its bibliography. A year later a third founder of the IHR wrote a similar book and it used the afore mentioned two books in its bibliography. After about 10 years and a book or two by each of the founders, a book was written with an impressive bibliography. How can anyone challenge that book in its contentions that only a small number of Jews died in German camps, and those that did, died from sickness? Here is a studious work with many footnotes and much collaborative proof. Did I change the subject or did I make a point about fostering an agenda?

You know, everyone on the board has agreed to leave the personal attacks and the snide remarks out, and engage in serious discussion. I find it interesting that you find it necessary to keep baiting, but that you don't seem to be able to present intelligent, thoughtful foundational reasoning for your remarks. Perhaps what is not fair here is trying to engage you in a meaningful discussion. That is very sad! Maybe you need to ask Jesus for a sense of humor. If anything, I was giving you credit for being able to hold off two debaters at once. And it wasn't I who made fun of another member's name. I am not Grumpy(-Old-Man), but your lack of a sense of humor might lead you to become grumpy. Who says my points have not been intelligent? You? Who says we have not had a meaningful discussion? You? You do remind me of our favorite president. You know the one who wants bipartisanship, by which he means, “see it my (party's) way”. Would the discussion be more meaningful if I said, "Ron, you have opened my eyes. I now KNOW that every word of the Bible is “word for word” true and that only with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ will anyone ever be able to gain eternal life. PS: All Muslims, most Jews and many other people who worship the wrong way are doomed to eternal damnation. Thank you, Ron. Thank you." Now, that's what we call meaningful dialog!!:faint:

This is not fair: Two TOM's against one Ron.:faint::help:

I wonder what would happen if I showed up at the Southern Baptist Church or the Seventh Day Adventist Church (each within walking distance of my home) tomorrow and offered to teach a class in science in place of the Sunday Sermon.

Why would medical science (or any science) come from God? Wasn't it the free will of the people to become scientists? Wasn't it the free will of the scientists to pick their branch of science? Wasn't it the free will of the scientists to chose the techniques that led them to their breakthroughs? Wasn't it the free will of the scientists to discover evolution through the use of scientific principles? Wasn't it the free will of the medical scientists to discover medical breakthroughs that led to the many cures we have today through the use of scientific principles?

And while our women might stop dieting, they will be requesting major surgeries. Then again to have a 23 inch waste might cause even more eating disorders. They need to come out with a breast implant filled with helium or else these bean-pole women will keep falling forward.:faint:

Yes Sue, you and I are too stupid to see the big picture. I am now Grumpy-Old-Man, because I do not see it Ron's way. Ron: Did you pray to Jesus for a fitting name to call me? Or did you call the White House for help in deciding what name to use? I realize that people like you and BuSh who have direct consultations with Jesus have probably been introduced to each other and are on a personal name basis. What do you call the president? George? Mr. President? W?

I am not attacking a Christian. I am stating the obvious. Modern medical science is doing the cures. Why did not prayer heal without the need for the same science which proves that "word for word" believe in the bible is inaccurate? As far as my grasp is concerned. I have a grasp of what was said, but I do not have to agree with it and I do not. You would feel insulted (and you should) if I asked you or any other Christian (of similar beliefs): When are you going to grow up and understand reality? But I will not do that. My grasp is fine. It is just different than yours.

No! People with an agenda interpret scripture. Why should we throw out a beautiful story because it is not "word for word" true? The story of the "Tortoise and the Hare", never happened, nor did the story of the "Grasshopper and the Ant", but we still can gain from their message of wisdom. And many of these men could not write, but instead passed on by word of mouth what they remembered to others, who passed it on until someone who could write, wrote it down. The moral of the story may be accurate, but much of the exactness may be distorted. Have you ever heard a story after that story was passed along by 3 people? That is why “hear-say” evidence is not allowed in a court of law. I watched a 911 documentary recently, and even though I knew the story was correct in principal, many of the words used were inaccurate and some conclusions false. And this is with modern recording equipment. Jesus being a messiah doesn't prove he was quoted properly. Jesus being a messiah doesn't prove he was the son of God anymore than any of the other billions of male children of God. My wife is a daughter of God, as is my grand-daughter. And yes, I have faith, because I DO NOT KNOW. I agree that our problems in the Middle-East have been caused by both parties with their "America has the right to do what it needs to do to protect its interests anywhere in the world" philosophy. But only George W. BuSh invades countries on the word of Jesus. Or should I say after consulting Jesus? And regarding “hear-say evidence not being allowed in a court of law”. That must be modified to “Except in Bush Tribunals”, where not only hear-say, but evidence from torture will be allowed. Sort of like the Salem Witch Trials.

Isn't it more accurate to say, He gave me cancer, back pain, allowed me to become addicted to both smoking and over-eating, but modern science, medicine and doctors have healed me of cancer, back pain, smoking and are in the process of delivering me from overeating using the band?

Just because someone has a degree, doesn't make him honest or immune from lying to push a political or religious agenda. Do you really think my comments are cute and pithy? Thanks!!

If he was a scientist, he would not have been a creationist, so of course you will not find any scientist who have gone from creationist to evolutionist. That's like asking if anyone knows of a scientist who's gone from creationist to scientist. Duh!! As was pointed out earlier, a scientist looks for the reason why something happens. A creationist looks for a way to fit what happens into his preconceived idea.

As an Italian-American, I have first hand knowledge of the power of Flying Spaghetti.

When people look at Hillary's voting record they find that she is a moderate Democrat. The Liberal label is one painted on her as a smear.

Carol: Life without parole can always be corrected if a mistake was made in the trial. A person executed has no recourse. The need to kill is one of the lowest forms of human behavior. When it is done by government, it is even lower considering the relative power of the government. Hitler, by the standards you use, was not evil. He was just enforcing the law of his land. George W. BuSh was asked by a fellow Republican governor to rethink the death penalty in 1999, because half the people on death row in Illinois had been found to be innocent by a graduate class in journalism from Northwestern University. The governor of Illinois told BuSh that his state and Texas used the same system for determining the death penalty, so he assumed that Texas would also have innocent people on death row. But BuSh being characteristically stubborn said that there was nothing wrong with the Texas judicial system. Why do you ask about what we want done to "a gangster who shot up a family in the park as a gang initiation? Or how about the stoned out meth head who broke into somebody's house in the middle of the night and murdered the residents only to steal $20 for his next fix"? Why don't you ask what we want done to people who were convicted of those crimes but were totally innocent? If your post is consistent with the feelings of defense attorneys for their defendant clients which they represent, then there is no wonder we have so many innocent people on death row.

I agree with 90% of what you said, except why would you expect the news to cover all the good things? During the 35 years that I was an aircraft mechanic, once I had five straight years of perfect attendance, including never being late once. It never made the news, but one day, one of our planes crashed and its story was in every paper for months. Yes, our troops have done wonders in Afghanistan, but they need help. BuSh pulled troops out of Afghanistan to invade Iraq in 2003. He is going to pull a battalion out again for the Iraqi troop escalation this year. I hope some of the Taliban or Al-Qaida terrorists can find away to get to New Orleans. Maybe then we can get that city rebuilt. Just before I moved from Brooklyn in 2003, there was a story about them opening up a new firehouse in an Iraqi city. On the next page, there was a story about them closing 5 firehouses in Brooklyn because the Federal government was no longer giving the local governments money. When a citizen of Brooklyn dies because a war in Iraq is causing our country to go bankrupt, there is a disconnect. Charity begins at home. The rebuilding we have done in Iraq is being done over and over as we knock it down, build it up, knock it down, build it up... And yes, Pakistan harbors our enemies. But if BuSh pushed for Democratic elections in Pakistan, we would lose Pakistan as our ally.

I didn't say it was incorrect, I just wanted credit given to the boys over at South Park.

Somebody stole the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" from "South Park".:faint:

As I said in my last post, the Bible is not to be taken "word for word" for if it was, the many contradictory points would drive even a scholar crazy. There are many wonderful stories of the teachings of Jesus, but Jesus himself did not speak in the Bible, but his words are written by apostles and others, or by people who were told by apostles or others after being handed down by word of mouth. My faith is that the trend is true, though many things in both testaments can be found which are not consistent How do I know that Jesus was who he claimed to be or did what he claimed to do is not really the question. The question should be "How do I know that the people who wrote the New Testament depicted what Jesus was claiming to be or what Jesus either claimed he did or someone else claimed he did is true?" And the answer is, "I don't know!! But I have faith that there was a Jesus and his time on Earth was for Man and he was sent by God." My sarcasm regarding "complete Jew" or "completed Jew" was not aimed at you, but was a question to ponder. Does your Bible say that being Liberal is a sin? In your Bible, is the 11 Commandment?: "Thou shalt not be a Liberal". Excusing a president who claims he takes his orders from Jesus to invade a country 1/10th the size of his own causing much death and suffering, who cuts food stamp programs for hungry children and cuts poor people from the Medicaid rolls is not my idea of being either Christian or Liberal. Yes, there is anger there, but I expressed none in that post you quoted. Yes, my mind is made up on many points, but you assume that it needs to be open to your way of thinking. Surprise me with something enlightening. I will listen and will discern its value. You have a clever way of calling people names. Anyone that does not agree with you needs an attitude adjustment or crawls out of the woodwork. You can worship Jesus in the way you want and I will worship Jesus in my way. I don't think your way is any less valid than mine, but I do think your way of pushing your way of worshiping is rather unchristian and rude.

It amazes me how true believers can not see when one of their own has erred. Ron may be 100% correct in his feeling on Jesus, but he has erred in his approach. EVEN HE HAS ADMITTED THAT. Of course "ousooner" was the exception that proved the rule. I thank him for seeing the light. When the Christians who are involved in political activism complain about how they are abused, I marvel at how a group that controlled both houses of congress, the White House and the majority of federal judges can feel picked upon. Or gang-raped for being disagreed with. Is there nothing for people who do not believe (in everything exactly as the Christian Right Political Movement does), can do except to revel in the light of the the Right and the might of the Right, that will satisfy the perfection of the Christian Right Political Movement? Ron, why do you bestow blessings on everyone that agrees with you? Don't we, who disagree with you, need the blessings even more? I listen to the FOX News talk shows on WSTU, Republican Talk Radio, and when a phone caller agrees with the host, the host says, "You are a great American" and the caller replies, "You are a great American". Everyone, that does not agree with the Right-wing hosts, must therefor, by the process of elimination, be traitors to America. Even the darling of the Right, Ann Coulter agrees with that analysis. So only Jews who find Christ are complete Jews? The rest of the Jews are bad, I guess. I guess someone will tell me how Moses worshiped Christ. I have heard that before. How about Noah? I also assume that Christians (like many here at LBT, including me) who don't buy a “word for word” interpretation of the Bible or who realize the politics that went into the Bible or who see the Qur'an as a retelling of the “Old and New Testaments” with many of the same characters, are doomed to everlasting burning in the eternal fires, unless those who think they have the only way are wrong. I don't believe the Bible is to be taken “word for word”, but as stories to make a point. I don't believe "Revelations" was anything but a communication between the Christians being tormented by the Romans. I don't need Hell to Love Jesus.

Maybe I am twisting things, but it seems to me that since God created Adam to be perfect and Eve was created without sin, then God must be a terrible parent.:faint: Satan was also created by God and had nowhere to learn bad habits from, but from observing God. No one can even use the excuse that Satan tempted him, because "he is him". The God of the "Old Testament" was mean, vengeful, Jealous and self-centered, and He was not ashamed of these traits. Is it any wonder his children took after Him?