Tired_Old_Man

From a fellow club member (of mine); a patriot, and humorist rwspisak. This is copy-righted.

She would probably appoint BuSh as (both) Secretary of Defense and Secretary of State.:faint: FOUR MORE YEARS (OF WAR)

So it wasn't "word for word" like the Bible?

Did you just say, “I told you so”?:faint:

We can discuss antisemitism in France, or the anti-religion attitude of the French government or the anti-Muslim attitude of many in the French populace, but the Bible being literal or not will never be anymore that an “I told you so”.

Come back over soon. I have been at it again.

I married a British women. We eat out a lot.:help:

Scene #1: Ron, TOM, gadgetlady Lisah25, Bjean, Green, GeezerSue, leatha_G, TommyO, ousooner, TruBlueSue, and all the other's who have posted to this thread all meet up in Heaven one day. They greet each other with hugs and kisses (where appropriate) and talk about this thread and how it made them learn more about human nature, and the nature of God and religion, which may be the same thing (come to think of it). They all realize that though they argued tooth and nail, there were genuine relationships forged. God and Jesus (at his right hand) walk by and are pleased at their endeavor. “See, Father, Adam and Eve might have broken your heart, but these LBT members have filled it with joy, but you already knew that would happen.” Scene #2: Ron, TOM, gadgetlady Lisah25, Bjean, Green, GeezerSue, leatha_G, TommyO, ousooner, TruBlueSue, and all the other's who have posted to this thread all meet up in Heaven one day. They immediately rekindle this thread and a “knock down, drag out” verbal battle ensues, becoming so loud that God and Jesus (at his right hand) have to walk by to referee the battle. When they fail, Jesus issues a degree, “He (or she) who continues this battle shall be sent to join Satan. I gave you guys a break after that LBT melee, but enough is enough.” As God and Jesus (at his right hand) walk away, a snicker and “I told you so” is heard. Jesus spins on his heel and says, “No. I told you so” and the LBT crowd is not so crowded anymore. Epilogue: Which of these two scenes would you put your money on?:faint:

Turning things upside down sometimes makes more sense. Something to think about.

My grandfather, an Italian American, born in Italy who came here as a WOP (Italian for Illegal Alien), who fought in WW1 in order to become a citizen was a True Believer. I knew him for the 25 years that I lived prior to his death, and except for breakfast I never saw him eat a meal that did not have 'Pasta' as part of it. In fact many of his meals consisted of nothing but Pasta. Of course, he would have been on Ron's side in the other thread, because he never even drank a glass of Water without a one to two minute prayer to bless the bounty that he was about to receive. He must have had a split personality.

The next sound that you will hear is that of Tina's 12 inch skillet contacting TOM's extremely thick skull:faint::help:

What are you doing Friday night?

Mac's have been better in many ways ever since they came out, but they are not problem free. My wife's iMac threw a fit once and it was barely usable until it was reformatted and the OS reinstalled. Luckily, I had attached a USB hard-drive and copied all her pictures, music, and MS-Word and Excel files before the iMac threw its fit. Yes, Mozilla Firefox is great. I use it on my XP PC, my Linux (Linspire) PC and have it on my wife's iMac, but every once in a while, we try to open a web-page and we get a message that says that this page needs Internet Explorer (IE) version 5 or higher, or sometimes v6 or higher. Also, sometimes some gif files (that my wife receives via e-mail) have no movement or will not open, so she forwards the e-mails to me so she can see them (in action). Yes, the Mac is a better computer, but Micro$oft has gone out of its way to make life difficult for Apple, Mozilla and Linux, by changing standards (protocols) in mid-stream (that they have previously agreed upon). Micro$oft just puts out an update and all Windows PC's see things correctly, but Mac's, Linux PC's and Windows' PC's using Mozilla (or other 3rd party browsers) are screwed.

Let us all go to the "Olive Garden" and Pray.

Under the BuSh administration, which is now allowing torture to extract evidence and then allowing the evidence to be used, I see a next step as torturing atheists, agnostics and non-completed Jews until they actually believe that the Bible is 100% true a la 1984. 'Do you remember,' he went on, 'writing in your diary, "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four"?' 'Yes,' said Winston. O'Brien held up his left hand, its back towards Winston, with the thumb hidden and the four fingers extended. 'How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?' 'Four.' 'And if the party says that it is not four but five -- then how many?' 'Four.' The word ended in a gasp of pain. The needle of the dial had shot up to fifty-five. The sweat had sprung out all over Winston's body. The air tore into his lungs and issued again in deep groans which even by clenching his teeth he could not stop. O'Brien watched him, the four fingers still extended. He drew back the lever. This time the pain was only slightly eased. 'How many fingers, Winston?' 'Four.' The needle went up to sixty. 'How many fingers, Winston?' 'Four! Four! What else can I say? Four!' The needle must have risen again, but he did not look at it. The heavy, stern face and the four fingers filled his vision. The fingers stood up before his eyes like pillars, enormous, blurry, and seeming to vibrate, but unmistakably four. 'How many fingers, Winston?' 'Four! Stop it, stop it! How can you go on? Four! Four!' 'How many fingers, Winston?' 'Five! Five! Five!' 'No, Winston, that is no use. You are lying. You still think there are four. How many fingers, please?' 'Four! five! Four! Anything you like. Only stop it, stop the pain!' Abruptly he was sitting up with O'Brien's arm round his shoulders. He had perhaps lost consciousness for a few seconds. The bonds that had held his body down were loosened. He felt very cold, he was shaking uncontrollably, his teeth were chattering, the tears were rolling down his cheeks. For a moment he clung to O'Brien like a baby, curiously comforted by the heavy arm round his shoulders. He had the feeling that O'Brien was his protector, that the pain was something that came from outside, from some other source, and that it was O'Brien who would save him from it. 'You are a slow learner, Winston,' said O'Brien gently. 'How can I help it?' he blubbered. 'How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four.' 'Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane.' He laid Winston down on the bed. The grip of his limbs tightened again, but the pain had ebbed away and the trembling had stopped, leaving him merely weak and cold. O'Brien motioned with his head to the man in the white coat, who had stood immobile throughout the proceedings. The man in the white coat bent down and looked closely into Winston's eyes, felt his pulse, laid an ear against his chest, tapped here and there, then he nodded to O'Brien. 'Again,' said O'Brien. The pain flowed into Winston's body. The needle must be at seventy, seventy-five. He had shut his eyes this time. He knew that the fingers were still there, and still four. All that mattered was somehow to stay alive until the spasm was over. He had ceased to notice whether he was crying out or not. The pain lessened again. He opened his eyes. O'Brien had drawn back the lever. 'How many fingers, Winston?' 'Four. I suppose there are four. I would see five if I could. I am trying to see five.' 'Which do you wish: to persuade me that you see five, or really to see them?' 'Really to see them.' 'Again,' said O'Brien. Perhaps the needle was eighty -- ninety. Winston could not intermittently remember why the pain was happening. Behind his screwed-up eyelids a forest of fingers seemed to be moving in a sort of dance, weaving in and out, disappearing behind one another and reappearing again. He was trying to count them, he could not remember why. He knew only that it was impossible to count them, and that this was somehow due to the mysterious identity between five and four. The pain died down again. When he opened his eyes it was to find that he was still seeing the same thing. Innumerable fingers, like moving trees, were still streaming past in either direction, crossing and recrossing. He shut his eyes again. 'How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?' 'I don't know. I don't know. You will kill me if you do that again. Four, five, six -- in all honesty I don't know.' 'Better,' said O'Brien. A needle slid into Winston's arm. Almost in the same instant a blissful, healing warmth spread all through his body. The pain was already half-forgotten. He opened his eyes and looked up gratefully at O'Brien. At sight of the heavy, lined face, so ugly and so intelligent, his heart seemed to turn over. If he could have moved he would have stretched out a hand and laid it on O'Brien arm. He had never loved him so deeply as at this moment, and not merely because he had stopped the pain. The old feeling, that it bottom it did not matter whether O'Brien was a friend or an enemy, had come back. O'Brien was a person who could be talked to. Perhaps one did not want to be loved so much as to be understood. O'Brien had tortured him to the edge of lunacy, and in a little while, it was certain, he would send him to his death. It made no difference. In some sense that went deeper than friendship, they were intimates: somewhere or other, although the actual words might never be spoken, there was a place where they could meet and talk. O'Brien was looking down at him with an expression which suggested that the same thought might be in his own mind. When he spoke it was in an easy, conversational tone. 'Do you know where you are, Winston?' he said. 'I don't know. I can guess. In the Ministry of Love.' 'Just now I held up the fingers of my hand to you. You saw five fingers. Do you remember that?' 'Yes.' O'Brien held up the fingers of his left hand, with the thumb concealed. 'There are five fingers there. Do you see five fingers?' 'Yes.' And he did see them , for a fleeting instant, before the scenery of his mind changed. He saw five fingers, and there was no deformity. Praise the Lord. BuSh shall set us free and gain us entry into Heaven.

" 12 For whoever has [spiritual knowledge], to him will more be given and he will [c]be furnished richly so that he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away." So people who do not know the "truth" about God should not be allowed to find out the truth about God? And why is your Biblical text different than the one I posted? How can the Bible be "word for word" if there is no single Bible. If the Bible can not agree with the Bible, how can it be taken lierally. If you remember my earlier posts, I mentioned the problems of translation, transcription and political jockying to get what some wanted into the Bible compared to what others wanted.

That goes back to the old vicious cycle; I know there is a God because the Bible says so. I know the Bible is True because God wrote it. If "scripture interprets scripture", then the Bible is not literal. Something Literal does not need interpretation. Something figurative does need interpretation. If Something needs interpretation, it is figurative and not literal. That is God's Logic. Did God create logic, or was it the Greeks?

LOL! You're funny, leatha. I love your excitement about all things of God . Jesus definitely did speak in parables and Scripture does need to be taken into context to understand it. There are so many people that say the Bible contradicts itself, but then when I ask for an example their examples really never DO contradict each other -- they just took them out of context or really didn't understand what was being said. Other than TOM, who won't talk about it because it's "personal", I have yet to have anyone else respond in the affirmative, that they believe Jesus is the Son of God, that He was crucified and resurrected on the third day, and that they also don't take the Bible literally. Is there no one else with this belief system who's willing to admit it and talk about it? If it is parables and metaphors, then it is not word for word (literal). And if something is word for word, how can it be taken out of context? The answer I have previously heard is that in another verse or chapter, the verse in question is referenced. But since there is no footnote referring you to the correct other verse, it is left up to the individual reader to ASSUME what other verse completes the context. Again interpretation, rather than literal.

Matthew 13: 10: And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11: He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12: For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13: Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14: And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Maybe the word of Jesus was only for the disciples to understand rather than you or I.

Are we all hiding out here? I just left a google of Biblical Verses for Ron to justify. Why don't you guys look in on him while I watch "24".

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20 Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10 Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16 Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7 Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13 Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20 Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11 Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak”-- 1 Corinthians 14:34 "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God”--Deuteronomy 22:5 “If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints?” -- 1 Corinthians 6:1 NIV “...that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire”--l Timothy 2:9 RSV “Let not yours be the outward adorning of braiding of hair, decoration of gold, and wearing of fine clothing”-- 1 Peter 3 :3

Jesus in the New Testament Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT) The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)