Tired_Old_Man

If it does die, will it be resurrected in three days?

Who is bashing Christians? I said it would not shake my faith in the Resurrection of Jesus whether "it was the human body of Jesus that was resurrected or a hologram type image that one could put their hand through".:help: I would hope that any good Christian could make that same statement.

But my statements are my opinions. Who am I but a lowly mortal. Your statements are those of God (or his scriptures), so, as you have demanded that your statements are to be taken as a higher standard, must you not be held to a higher standard?

You hit the nail on the head IMHO.:clap2:

Gringos!!:scared:

There is a danger that was not exposed in this thread. I just finished watching 60 minutes last from last night on my DVR (Tivo type unit). There was a story about a Nazi concentration camp that was used as a showcase to the world to hide what the Nazis were actually doing. The International Red Cross inspected that camp in 1944 and raved about how well the Jews were being treated. One surviver of the camp (now in his late 70's) said it was easy for the Red Cross and the World to believe (that lie) because they wanted to believe it. Jews have always been treated poorly and thought this thread was named about and seemed to be a complaint against ill treatment of Jews (in France), not much was actually said about the Jews (accept maybe they should accept Christ as their personal savior). It is easier (for some) to look the other way when evil is done to an unpopular group. Or a group that doesn't accept Jesus like us. Though the opening post is supposed to be about the problems of the Jews, it is more about those evil Muslims (who also don't accept Jesus like us). During our long (155 page so far) conversation, it has been debated whether the God of the Qur'an is the God of the Christians and Jews, and some have been said that the Qur'an is not a real holy book and/or is not as good as the Bible and scriptures from the Bible have been offered up to put the Qur'an down. This is the first step toward doing to the Muslims in the USA what Hitler did to the Jews in Germany. The Nazis could never have committed those atrocities against "normal" Germans. It was easy however to arrest Jews, Gays and Gypsies, and hold them without charges, without access to legal council and to sentence them without trial (to death). Almost sounds like the BuSh policy regarding non-combat detainees. It will be very easy to round up the unbelievers of Jesus as soon as another 911 happens. It will be easy to hold the 5 million Muslim/Americans responsible because they do not believe in Jesus like us. They do believe in Jesus, but not as we do, but that will not be good enough to stop the paranoia, fear and the selling of our souls (and civil rights) for security. The Christian Right political Movement will be right out front calling for the detention of these Godless immigrants, even though they pray more often than Christians do, pray to the same God and it will not whether they were born here or naturalized. Has anyone ever wondered why I have a Right-wing quote as my signature? One member (not long after I joined LBT) welcomed me as a Republican to LBT. Well, I have been waiting for someone to comment on my sig for about 7 months. "The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life." Is it a quote by George W. BuSh? Or Jerry Falwell? Or Pat Buchanan? It is proof of how close we (in the USA) are to another Holocaust.

Canada is in America as is Mexico and the "United States of America". The name of the USA is not America. So Canadians are (North) Americans as are Mexicans. Panamanians and Peruvians and Chilians are also Americans; (South) Americans. We in the United States have been so presumtive as to try to take over 2 continents (in name, of course). There I go, Crying again.:faint:

Does BuSh really believe in what the Christian Right Political Movement is espousing or does he really need the votes of the Christian Right Political Movement? There was a book out, Tempting Faith by a conservative Christian, David Kuo, who worked in the BuSh White House and who exposed the lies told to garner votes from the Christian Right Political Movement, though never giving them much of what they wanted except lip service.

The Greatest Generation With our nation at war, a war which divides us, it is easier to talk about another war and what has become to be known as our “Greatest Generation”, the US military personal who fought in World War Two. Some who read what I am about to write will read things that I am not writing; that the US military personal of World War Two were not heroes or that they did not do a great job. I will not write that and I do not believe it either, BUT what I do believe is that by giving our military personal so much credit as the “Greatest Generation”, we take that title away from the rest of the “Greatest Generation”, the people that stayed home. Yes, our military fought very well, but so did many on the opposite side of the line. Yes, our military was brave, but so were so many of the men on the opposite side. Many of the military personal that our brave military fought against actually believed that they were defending their country and their way of life, just as our boys did. Our military was vital to our winning the war, but there were other people who got very little credit for our victory; they were the men and women who produced the airplanes, tanks, small arms, bullets, cannons, uniforms, submarines, aircraft carriers, battleships, destroyers and bombs, and the food supplies that were used by our fighting men and who also produced the merchant ships that got the supplies over to our military and our other allies. Occasionally, I have heard talk about the men who designed our tanks and planes and also about the men who were factory owners and managers who supplied our war effort as heroes, but in my opinion, the workers, particularly the women who had been housewives, homemakers, school teachers, etc., but who became the munitions manufacturers, airplane and ship builders that “Rosie the Riveter” became the symbol for were equally the heroes of WW11. Besides working long hours, they also sacrificed their living standards as many goods were rationed or where totally kept from commercial sales. That is why, while I do not want anything taken away from our military men who have become know as our “Greatest Generation”, I do feel that the men and women who stayed home and produced the never ending stream of supplies, be given equal recognition with the soldiers, sailors, pilots and marines who went to battle. Many can argue about the merits of any or all of the wars since WW11. Some can even debate how we became entangled in that war so far away from our shores, but in this time when only our people who are fighting in Iraq and their families are making sacrifices, I would like to point out that one of the differences between the great war of the mid 20th century and our first war of the 21st century is the level of sacrifice and participation by the general public of the USA. Let's extend our thanks not only to that quickly vanishing breed of WW11 soldiers for our freedom, but let's also thank those people that made those soldier's victory, the USA's victory and our freedom possible; the people who worked long hard hours with their hands to supply the military. And they did all those things while worrying about the lives of their brothers, husbands, fathers and boyfriends who were overseas and they had to keep going when the news was as bad as bad news could get about their loved ones. My hat goes off to all of the members of the “Greatest Generation”, both the men and women who went abroad, and the men and women who stayed home. I thank you all.

I think that anyone reading my writings has a firm grasp on my beliefs. If what I have said does not explain my beliefs to you, consider yourself in the minority. I prefer hot air that comes from a mind working and generating heat (check out a PTscan of the brain) to that of copying and pasting quotes from a book. A college professor once described a lecture as a process by which notes from his notebook enter a student's notebook without ever passing through the mind of either of them.

Excuse me. I thought that the context of my post would indicate that I was speaking (writing) about the people alive at the time of the writing of the Bible (and shortly there-after). I do not count you as ignorant.

I clicked on the links and then reported the posts.

I never clicked on any of the links, so I have no idea.

I don't know if I prefer being ignored or attacked.:frusty:

How do I allow for the differences between what the Jews and Muslims believe and most Christians believe? How do I allow for the differences between what different types of Christians believe? Was the Bible divinely written? The problem may not be the writing, but the translations and the politics. We have discussed translation ad nauseam, but politics played a large part also. I believe that “Revelations” does not belong in the Bible, because it was actually satirical letters written about the Roman emperor, using allegoric terms and metaphors. Much like “Alice in Wonderland”, it was not about what it was purported to be about (literally). I also believe that many parts of the Bible were left out. There is supposed to be a Gospel of Judas and a Gospel of Mary Magdalene, the Gospel of Thomas as well as a whole group of letters know as the book of Gnostic's. But politics played a very large role in what was included in the different versions of the Bible(s). Do I know which are right? No. But no one else does either. I will have to depend on God being fair and since he is so much more intelligent than I, I will hope he knows that no one of the 21st Century could possibly know which Holy Book is the real Holy Book, or if any that are around today actually embody his teachings. I have faith that my beliefs will carry me (and other people who love God) to my hoped for eventual outcome. No, I do not know. I just have faith that it is true.

Until Yana's post, we had subconsciously bought in to the perversion of this thread. We had been debating if my acceptance of Jesus was enough (or the right way or if I accepted Jesus for the right reasons) as we were also were debating whether Carlene's (and other Roman Catholics) way of version worshiping Jesus was good enough and whether relatives of some LBT members would gain entrance into Heaven without believing the "correct" way about Jesus or their version of Christianity was good enough. Yes, we fell into the trap set by the opening post of this thread. A trap which contends that there is only one way to gain entrance into Heaven. Over a billion people believe in the Qur'an, a basic retelling of the Bible (both Old and New Testaments) with a different flavor. Saying that the only way to enter Heaven depends on Jesus, leaves out the Jews and the Muslims, although they believe in the same God as the Christians, and Muslims believe in Jesus. No, Muslims do not believe that Jesus was the son of God, nor part of a triune, but they do believe that he was born of a virgin birth by Mary, and placed in her by God and that Jesus was the most perfect prophet and most perfect human in history. If I accept Jesus as my personal Saviour, do I have to refute the possibility of Jews and Muslims being saved? In my opinion; NO!! Ask me to quote scripture if you want and I will frustrate you by telling you that the tone of the New testament is love, compassion and forgiveness. And those are the lessons that Jesus preached and that I hear. Accuse me of being a Liberal. I am. Accuse me of being tolerant. I am. And I do not think that my being either Liberal and/or tolerant, that I will lose my place in Heaven.

I did not and will not attack you or Leatha for your beliefs. I just asked where (Book & verse#) the prophecy that she wrote about was regarding: presenting fake scientific evidence. Please feel free to enlighten me if you know the answer. Again let me repeat one question and add one more: #1: Many people have contended for years that when Christ rose from the dead, that it was not corporeal, but a visible spirit before the women. Would that be any less of a miracle? #2: Is there any place in the Bible (Book & verse#) that excludes the possiblity of Jesus being married? Question to think about besides the topic of this thread: Was Martin Luther King less of a spiritual leader because he was married? Was Moses less of a prophet because he was married? Is George BuSh less of a leader because he is married? Is Billy Graphem less of a spiritual leader because he was married?

We already argued that and no one said that a dog could be changed into a cat by evolution. At least no one with any modern knowlege of evolution. It was said that two different animals could come from the same common animal. A Zebra and horse probably came from a common ancestor; the Equidae family.

The Bible was written for very ignorant people. In one story, men attempt to build a Tower to reach Heaven. Does God, in order to stop them, take away their common language and gives them many languages to discourage cooperation? I think and would hope that God punished them for their arrogance in trying to reach Heaven without his permission, though, they never could have reached Heaven, unless God has moved Heaven since then. The highly technologically advanced humans of today can not build a tower high enough to reach Heaven, so how were the technologically inept people of a few thousand years BC a threat (to God) to reach it? The people of that time period probably thought a tower could be built to reach Heaven, though the people of today (I assume) know it can't be done. But, the story makes sense, both then and now.

On another forum, my sig is: Matthew; 26-52: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." Each Year, The USA Spends more Money on Swords than all the rest of the countries of Earth Spend Combined. I was told that the USA does not spend any money on swords. Was Jesus speaking of Nuclear bombs (or warheads)? If the USA proposes the use of Nuclear tipped bunker-buster missiles to destroy Iran's fledgling nuclear program and I tell someone, the USA needs to be careful because "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." Can I expect a "huh?" or "you are crazy?" or "Jesus never spoke about Nuclear weapons!"?

That is your opinion. My opinion is: "Some parts may be literal and some parts may be allegorical." See how I did that, Ron? I didn't say you were wrong. I didn't say you would burn in Hell. I didn't even say I was better or smarter than you. And yes, I am being a wise guy. Because after almost 800 posts, how many people have you brought closer to Jesus? I would consider your Ministry a failure here at LBT. All because the messenger can not put forth a message without driving people away. Earlier you said that I cry. I am laughing so hard that my finger are having a hard time hitting the right keys. You make a mockery of Christianity. Too bad you were not born in Kuwait or Pakistan. Osama could use more followers.

Of course that is not how I got my faith. I just asked if you would believe it.

The authority of the Bible may or not be literal.

My faith is not off limits to discuss. What is off limits is how I came to my faith without following the same path that you did. If I told you that an Angel appeared to me in a dream and told me that Jesus had special plans for me, would you believe me?

Maybe she can, but she doesn't have to provide them for you. Sorry BJean, you spoke up for me and I hope you don't mind if I speak for you.