KartMan

That was Senator Jim DeMint form South Carolina. "Senators and Congressmen will come back in September afraid to vote against the American people," DeMint predicted, adding that "this health care issue Is D-Day for freedom in America." "If we’re able to stop Obama on this it will be his Waterloo. It will break him," he said. The sad thing is that much of the opposition to Health Care reform is not about the issue of Health Care at all, but a backhanded way in which to defeat Obama in order for the Right to get back in power after having their shorts handed to them in the last election. Unfortunately, it is the American people that will suffer for this plot in the long run.

Patty, Sometimes your arguments are baseless, other times you just don’t make sense. Mostly, form what I have seen you are just outright wrong. This one troubles me though because your choice of words is a new low even for you. You may dislike Obama and his policies, but to suggest he is anything other than a loving husband to his beautiful wife Michelle (even if by mistake) is completely uncalled for. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just have made a poor choice in words (oh, and I’ll forgive the misspelling too - because that is certainly a failing that I share with you:blushing:). phi⋅lan⋅der –verb (used without object) (of a man) to make love with a woman one cannot or will not marry; carry on flirtations.

Maybe we should petition to have is account name changed to plainolepunchingbag:lol: I’ve actually been trying to lay low from LBT R&R the last couple of weeks, I found it was consuming a little too much of my time. I’m still reading the posts, just fighting the urge to respond to every ridiculous argument, especially the insane ones about Obama’s vacation and his ability to pay his own credit card bills. Those posts came close to setting me over the edge but I went to the gym instead:cool:

Keith, Congrats on the 80# loss, that is fantastic:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:. By the numbers, it looks as if you have more lean mass than me (mine is only 153 lbs). I knew I wasn’t very muscular, but I was surprised to learn how “skinny” I was under all that fat. The good news is that I feel great about working out now and I am reasonably sure I am on the way to building muscle (especially once I am able to stop losing weight). It seems as if you are losing at a really good clip (as did I). The good news there is that you should get to your goal fairly soon. Once you get a little closer to your goal, it will be a little easier to ascertain where you really are with respect to BF%. The way I see, that fat is easily coming off so there is no reason to believe that 15% is out of the question. Oh, and BTW - totally agree with you about the beef jerkey:drool:.

Well, the good news is that you can bring it up and you are on the right track by exercising. Take a look at this http://www.korr.com/solutions/metabolic_boost7.htm It has some good tips for boosting your metabolism.

Deniseh, Well, there is the rub isn’t it? I don’t have it all figured out. I think I have a better understanding of it, but it’s a whole lot of new stuff to learn. What you said about losing muscle makes sense, it was just never put to me quite that way. If I look at my last 2 dunk tests, I lost 6.4lbs from the first to the second test. About 55% of that was fat mass loss and the other 45% was lean mass. Obviously, it is my best interest to try to lose less lean mass. My trainer and the RMR Administrator both said that I would need to add in calories and protein now that I am working out. They both are of the school of thought that I should be getting 1 gram of protein for every pound of lean mass. For me, that works out to about 150g of protein per day:eek:! I am still struggling to do that while not taking in too many calories. I find salmon to be a great source, but I can only handle so much of that. I have been supplementing with Muscle Milk Light or Protein Shots, both are only 100 calories and available by the case at Costco. I find them both to be a little on the sweet side, but not as gross as some of the stuff out there. I honestly don’t know if it is ok to eat less than RMR, but I know that when I eat over 1500 calories (which is below my RMR) I don’t lose weight. I have also started to take Glutamine, which is supposed to aid in protein synthesis. It is thought to help prevent the muscle from being catabolized (eaten up) during rigorous exercise.

Where is that thread? I'm always game for throwing somebody under the bus:biggrin:

Psst, just between you and I, my frustration was directed more toward the OP for posting it here than the “author” of the letter. And BTW, you read way too fast. I barely posted that before you responded.

Even if the letter is real… Who cares, I don’t see ANYTHING wrong in it. It is written as if there were supposed to be some grievous wrong committed and I just don’t see that there was. 1) Obama is the POTUS and there have been a few whackos that have already brought guns to Town Hall meetings. Security is a major concern, what is wrong with the location that was chosen being a secret till the last minute? Oh and before you 2nd amendment types get on my case about your god given right to bear arms, save it, I really don’t want to hear it. I’m not here to say you have to give up your guns (that is an entirely different discussion), but I see no reason why you should be allowed to bring them to a political rally – NOTHING good can come of it. 2) I have been to a lot of political rallies and neither side in a debate like this is ever “well behaved”. All of the people there are passionate about their beliefs. I am sure the pinko commie SEIU bullies and the redneck birther anti-health care yahoos (before you get all uptight about these terms, I am being careful to denigrate both sides here:tt2:) were equally rude and boisterous. 3) I’m sure that 900 tickets didn’t just disappear, they went to supporters and local organizers. I’m also sure that it wasn’t a secret and it certainly wasn’t some conspiracy. Why is this a surprise or even a problem? This always happens with these sorts of things, no matter which political party is involved. 4) From what I saw, the press did exactly what they were supposed to do. The majority of their coverage (and I watched it on all 3 cable networks) was about the President’s speech and a much smaller portion was devoted to protestors on both sides of the issue. I see absolutely no problem with that arrangement. From my perspective, the President WAS the news - the protestors were a side issue. If the President wasn’t there, there would not have been news at all right? So why should either group of protestors have gotten any more coverage than they did? 5) There were at least 2 comments in the email reminding us about the recession and it’s impact on the local economy. Hello? This Presidential visit was probably the single biggest event this little town’s economy has had since it was founded in 1906. 6) Don’t even get me started with the whole “homemade signs” argument. Just like argument #2 above, both sides in this debate are very organized and are more than capable of cranking out signs en mass for their supporters to use. The best ones are the mass produced signs that are actually made to look homemade (do those really fool anyone?). It’s not egregious, it’s just marketing 101 and a fact of the current political environment. 7) I don’t see why the author wanting their email address removed takes away any validity of letter. If I sent out some lame letter like this, I wouldn’t want my email address plastered all over the internet either. It just shows that they are cautious (or possibly embarrassed), it doesn’t prove it as a fake. 8) What’s with the comment about “THOUSANDS of Dollars of Lobster were shipped in for Obama” supposed to mean anyway? Even if he could eat it (BJean has informed us he can’t), the author makes it sound as if it were for him alone and that nothing else was on the menu. Really? Is this supposed to be any sort of meaningful argument? Hasn’t the author ever heard of a State Dinner? It is the President of the United States for goodness sake. I don’t see how an elegant dinner is out of place. Regardless of how you feel about Obama and his policies, at least the Office deserves the respect of formality. 9) I love the comment “Just think...with all of the traveling the White House is doing. $$$$$ One can only imagine what else we are paying for.” Really? What planet is the author from? He is the POTUS, it is his job to get out and be the face of the administration to the public. This is nothing new, every president has done this before him (oh, and they all took vacations too – sorry that is another topic). Sorry, this was a lot of ranting on my part but I have tried to stay away from LBT R&R for the last couple of weeks and I guess this topic was the one that sent me over the edge.

My Resting Metabolic Rate was 1829, My Lifestyle & Activity is supposed to allow me another 546 calories. The test showed that my metabolism is 6% lower than “normal”, which may have contributed to my past obesity (but I tend to think it was more likely the massive quantities of food I used to eat:blushing:). Having said that, my own experience with the band has shown that I need to consume less than 1500 calories (before exercise) to lose weight consistently. My peak VO2 was 36.4 which puts me in the “fair” range. VO2 is a measure of your fitness, a higher VO2 indicates a greater level of fitness and a greater ability to intensely workout, which in turn gives you a better chance to burn calories. For example, Lance Armstrong has a VO2 of 83.8:eek:, superior is in the high 40’s, so he is off the chart. Knowing your VO2 allows you to determine your target heart rate zones for working out. For me, I need my heart rate to be 114-136 for fat burning ((Aerobic) and between 136-174 for cardio (Anaerobic). I took these tests before starting my workout regimen and plan to do them again in 6 months (except the dunk, which I will do monthly). I am hoping to see an improvement particularly in VO2 after about 6 months of regular workouts.

Update I went back for a second dunk test this past Friday (8/21/09). It had been about 3 weeks since my first test and I am pretty happy with the results. I went from 201.2 lbs to 194.8 lbs (total loss = 6.4 lbs.) Of that, I lost 2.8 lbs of lean mass and 3.6 lbs of fat mass. I went from 22.3% Body Fat to 21.2% Body Fat. I need to lose another 14.2 lbs of fat mass to get to my ideal of 15% Body Fat. My goal is to get a better ratio of fat loss to lean loss. This is where the gym comes in. I have started hitting the gym regularly and have increased my protein intake in order to build (or not lose) lean mass.

This is really good point. I am certain that two things were the main cause of obesity for me; I was a volume eater and I ate a lot of bad carbs (not sweets so much, but bread/pasta rice). It took a lot to make me full, and I always ate until I was full (ok, often times I ate past that). If I went for fast food, I would get 2 combos. When I would go out to dinner I would always eat more of the chips/bread/appetizer than anyone else and I usually was the only one to clean my plate (and sometimes nibble on the others). If I went to a buffet, I always had at least 2 heaping plates, sometimes more. I wasn’t too bad at snacking or with sweets, but boy could I put away a big meal. For me, that has all changed with the band. I still don’t snack much and only eat minimal sweets – the big difference is in the quantity I eat per meal. I can only eat small portions (my 7 year old daughter now eats larger portions than me) and have gotten pretty good at recognizing when I’ve had enough. Examples of meals for me: Breakfast – 2 runny egg yolks and a 45 cal slice of toast lunch – 2-4 oz of meat, 2-3 bites of pasta/rice/bread, some veggies Dinner – 2 oz of meat, 2-3 bites of pasta/rice/bread, some veggies Since I have started working out more I have been trying to mix in an energy bar before the workout and a Protein shot after. I also try to have at least one V8 a day to make up for the veggies I can't get down during meals.

Please don’t use this thread as your determining factor for getting or not getting the band. All of us on here are biased at least to some extent and most of us are not medical professionals. The answers you get will be purely anecdotal and related only to the person giving the information. As has been said numerous times before, the band seems to work differently for everyone. Two people following essentially the same diet and exercise routine can and often do lose weight at different speeds. There are tons of people on here that have had absolutely no problems with their bands and others that regret every second they have it in. Will it work for you? Unfortunately you won’t know for sure unless and until you have the procedure. There are bunch of things you can do to make it fail - drinking calories, eating past the band, poor diet, sedentary lifestyle, etc. There are also a lot of things you can do to improve your chances of success – drink your Water, listen to your doctor, take charge of your food intake, start an exercise routine, etc. So here is my totally biased anecdotal answer: I love what the band has done for me:thumbup: I was banded February 18, 2009. I started at 285 and am down to under 195. So that’s about 90 lbs in just over 7 months. I have gone from size XXXL shirts and 44 pants to L/M shirts and 34 pants. During the first 5 months I didn’t exercise much, but have recently started to hit the gym (more to gain muscle than to lose fat). I eat between 900 and 1500 calories each day with three meals and rarely any Snacks – my hunger and energy levels are fine most of the time. I have 3.6cc in a 10cc band and currently feel great (maybe a little too tight). I was pretty lucky in that I had a good amount of restriction right from the beginning and had steady weight loss from day 1. My initial goal was to get to “normal” BMI of 24.9 (I started at 38.7) Now that I am almost there, I have shifted my goal from BMI to Body Fat % (measured hydrostatically). My last Body Fat test was a few days ago and it is “Average” at 21.2%, I am about 15lbs of fat away from an “Ideal” body fat of 15%. At the rate I am going, I fully expect to be at my Body Fat goal within the next 1-2 months. I am currently at a weight that I haven’t seen since leaving Navy Boot camp back in 1984. It hasn’t been super easy, but very doable. I have had to learn how to eat all over again. I have also had to train myself to think about what I do to my body every day (with respect to calories in/calories out). The whole thing has made me a little OCD, but I feel so good about how I look and feel that it is worth it. Regrets? Not for a second:thumbup:

Your mama's so fat that her belly button makes an echo Yo momma's so fat she had to get baptised at sea world Yo momma's so fat her cerial bowl comes with a lifeguard

Exactly, I am 6’ even. I used to be 6’1”, but that is another story:cursing:. Like Keith has said, BMI is not very accurate at determining anything of real importance. I still track it because like it or not, it is a number that doctors use and the health industry uses. I have researched the Hydrostatic Dunk test quite a bit and have found that it can quite accurately measure Body Fat vs. Lean Mass. It was pretty easy to do (once you get past the feeling that you are being waterboarded) and not terribly expensive ($60 at this place FitnessWave ). I was so inspired by the fact that I am in the “Average 18-24%” range (22.3% to be exact) and that I am still comfortably losing weight that I set my goal to 15% Body Fat. 15% is considered “Fit”, “Ideal” or “Good” depending on whose literature you are looking at.

Fair enough. The Body Fat calculation has had another positive effect, it has gotten me into the gym. Up until taking the dunk test I had lost most of the weight on diet alone with little to no exercise. Now I have this desire to get down to 15% body fat which means I need to lose about 17lbs (since the test) of fat while not losing any muscle, or better yet while gaining some muscle. I’m really eager to hit it hard for the next couple weeks and see what the effect on BF% has been. As for your earlier comment of setting OCD goals on what your body may or may not be able to do, I felt that way at first too. I did set them, but in the back of my mind I told myself not to be disappointed if I couldn’t make them. I also convinced myself that I’m “big boned” or would look “too skinny” if I got too low or there is “only so much” I can lose. Well to my utter surprise, none of those is true. I’m not in fact big boned, it turns out I have a “normal” skeletal structure for my height. I am only about 12 lbs from that goal and I don’t look too skinny at all, I look pretty good (if I say so myself:blush:). And most importantly, the weight is still coming off at a steady pace.

LOL:laugh: I actually considered using a Soylent Green reference in my post but I didn’t think there were any dorks out there like me that even would know what it means, I guess I s wrong.

Number 3 has been revised. Last rights will now be prohibited and considered illegal as they would be a violation of Separation of Church and State laws. Since the entire medical system will be socialized, last rights would normally be administered in too close of proximity to medical care and we just can’t have that. Since all the doctors will be government employees and hospitals will be government buildings, priests and rabbis will not even be allowed on the premises. So from now on, we will all be euthanized in a purely secular fashion. To save even more money and to help protect the environment, all bodies in a county will be cremated en mass and together once a month. Eight ounces of the common ashes will be distributed to families of the deceased, the rest will be recycled into fertilizer.

Keith, I think I’m on the same page with you. I started this process with the intent of getting to a “Normal” BMI of 24.9 For me that number (which will be @ 184lbs) is only about 12lbs away right now. As I have gotten closer to that goal, I see that I still have some fat around my belly and chest. I look pretty good in clothes now, but I can still see the stuff there in the mirror. At this point I am still losing weight at a comfortable pace and have started a regular workout routine to help build some muscle. I still have my BMI and Body Fat goals, but I think my real goal is just to get down to a nice leveling off point. My best guess at this point is that that will probably be 170-180 lbs which should equate to 23.- 24.4 BMI and about 13-15% Body Fat.

For those of you that only have a weight goal in mind, I suggest you jot down a few other goals. For me (and keep in mind I am not normally a list person or a goal person) it has been a tremendous area of self satisfaction to track and mark these off as I go. Since originally posting this thread, I reached some new goals and had to change a few. My biggest change was around some of my BMI goals because I discovered that I am actually closer to 6’ rather then 6’ 1” (which means I was even fatter than I thought:crying:). I did actually used to be 6’ 1’” but I hurt my back several years ago and I think I lost ¾” due to some crushed vertebrae. 1 – Have LB Surgery – Achieved 2/18/09 2 - Overweight (29.9 BMI) – Achieved 6/13//09 3 - L Shirts & Size 36 Pants - Achieved 7/15/09 :thumbup: 4 - Lowest Previous Diet Weight (206 lbs) - Achieved 7/19//09 :wub: 5 – “Average” Body Fat = 18-24% (Hydrostatic Dunk Test) - Achieved 7/19//09 @ 22.3% :eek: 6 - Onderland (199 lbs) – Achieved 8/2/09 :eek: 7 – M Shirts & Size 34 Pants - Achieved 8/7/09 (I never believed I could wear a M shirt) :thumbup: 8 – Goal, Normal BMI (184 lbs 24.9 BMI) – Oh so close 9 – “Ideal” 15% Body Fat (Hydrostatic Dunk Test) – Very doable if keep losing and hit the gym 10 – My Navy Boot Camp Weight (180 lbs) – Post Goal Goal 11– “Excellent” <14% Body Fat (Hydrostatic Dunk Test) – Might be unreasonable, but I feel it is possible 12 - OMG Weight (165 lbs) – This is a stretch goal 13 – Size 32 pants – Seriously? Are you f***ing kidding me? Size 32?

Shantra, These were a few very well thought out posts and I for one appreciate everything you had to say. I don’t care if it was your first post or your 400th post, they were more thoughtful and to the point than many people on here that have hundreds of posts. As for being told to “go back to Europe”, well all I can say is consider the source on that one. From what I can see, you came here legally and your husband has sacrificed greatly for this country so you are more than welcome in my book.

Are these people really trying to be patriotic by claiming that Obama is not a citizen? Are they just opposed to his politics or maybe it’s his middle name or the color of his skin? I’ve been around a while and have seen a lot of racism in my life, and this looks like racism to me. Of course Rush and our friends at Fox are all over this and are trying to stir the pot even more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbed9snwjBM&feature=related http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104595

No, I can not compare the two in any way. I am angry at the Obama Administration about this issue though, just not for the reasons that you are. I am angry that they were too shortsighted and politically naïve not to see how this would come back to bite them. I think they were making an attempt to gather information and talking points form the other side so that they could retaliate against them, rumor control if you will. I don’t believe for a second they were trying to secretly collect personal information on “dissenters”. They didn’t need to do it this way though, they could have just Googled the web and gotten all of the info that is out there for anyone to see. By asking for it this way and not explicitly telling people to strip out email addresses, they have opened the door for their critics to lambast them on the issue. For the record, they deserve to be lambasted for it too, hopefully they will learn form this stupid mistake. If I were in the Administration I would demand the idiot that initiated this either resign or be fired.

I know very well how laws are made, thanks for the attempted high school civics lesson. I am also very aware that Democrats (the Senate vote was 92-1-1 the first time and 89-10-1 on the 2006 version (Obama was in favor of the second version in 2006)) voted in favor of the law too. The point I was trying to make was that it was the Bush Administrations law that congress approved and it was the Administration that pushed thru other egregious encroachments on civil rights. I don’t for a second give the Democrats a pass on that issue, nor do I forgive those that got us into the Iraq War. In full disclosure though, I bought the Iraq War nonsense early on too because so many of the lies the Administration fed us seemed so compelling at the time.