Kat817

Hey girls~ Well I am not going to the hospital today, at least not for awhile....Kinsey is sick. Poor baby is running a high fever....give her part of a chewable immodium and got the diarrhea stopped last night, but she is achy and feverish (102) and has slept all morning. I keep waking her up to give her sips of water, so she doesn't dehydrate. My folks are off getting their taxes done. So will maybe have them sit with her this afternoon, and go over to see Manda. I have spoke with her, and there is not any change, waiting to see her Dr.'s to see what the plan is for discharging her. The thing is, the ear looks as bad as it did the day they admitted her....nothing has changed, other than the possible prognosis. Will check in throughout the day. Tracy--so good you caught the water draining when you did!!! I was in my dining room one day and heard a wierd noise in the laundry room, so I opened the door and got hit in the face with a massive spray of water! I closed the door in a panic--then realized I needed to know---so I dashed out through this seriously inch around hard spray of water-----only to see it spraying out of the pipe. I called Rick, and called my Dad who was closer----and finally found the shut off valve...Dad got here about then, and she shut the water off at the meter for me. Ended up the valve where my houses water supply went into the water softener, broke--so the entire water line was just spraying, it would have ruined my house in less than an hour----if the spray had not been so strong and hitting that door, I would not have heard it! Scary!!! Glad yours is getting taken care of! And so happy to hear that Macy is loving her new house. Judy it seems a good sign that Ethans Mom recognizes that she needs to rest and let someone else deal with him right now....hope it is a good sign anyway! suzyt--tell us a little about you-------we know now what kind of work you do!! LOL Well most days anyway! Time to irritate Kinsey and wake her to drink. I'll BBL Kat

Were 8 of your 10 infants all at the same time, the same age? Let's say she does find daycare for those 8 kids all day, and the twins all day, and the others after school. That will be in the neighborhood of say 3 grand a month with family discounts if it is at all similar to rates here in NM. A single child in full time day care is $400.00 a month. She will have 10 in full time, and 4 part time. So that is well over a thousand a month discount. She is in school all day, away from the kids. Then when she comes home, at say 5 PM---there is dinner to cook for 15. And don't forget, the infants cannot feed themselves yet. So that eats up a couple of hours. So it is now at least 7 PM, and you have 15 people needing baths to get ready for bed. Once again, the infants cannot bathe themselves yet....for that matter most of the kids in the ages she has them, need help shampooing their hair, combing out the tangles etc. And there is not enough of an age range for the older ones to help with the younger ones....so it is up to her. Time to lather on lotion and cuddle and bond with each of them? When? So if you have an assembly line in baths, and figure 10 minutes a piece, then you have spent over 2 hours on baths. And good luck getting a 6 year old in and out in 10 minutes! So it is now after 9 Don't forget laundry is having to be done. Dinner dishes done. Floors vaccuumed--there are afterall a LOT of kids on that floor. BUT....most of them cannot be bathing alone! So nothing but baths are getting done during that time. All the other household chores must wait until after bed time. Now it is 9 and you are putting 14 kids to bed. Infants do not usually just get laid in their cribs and drift off. How do you rock 8 babies? Read to 6 other kids? Get countless drinks of water? Ok, it is somewhere around 10, and she is trying to study between crying babies, changing loads of laundry, paying bills, ordering some clothes for the kids online, because how do you take that many kids shopping? Dishwasher is finished, time to put them away, and prepare things for the next morning, because you have to get up at 5 to get showered and ready for school, then wake up 14 kids, change minimally 8 diapers, and feed them all breakfast, and get them all dressed, faces clean, hair and teeth brushed and to school or daycare.....then get to school herself.....with none of her homework or studying done, there was not time. When school lets out, she might have a few minutes to study before having to pick up all the kids, but nope, she has to hit the grocery store! And has to go get the 4 year old for a speech class, and take the oldest to the dentist. Just as examples, there is a steady array of errands for an average family on an average day, and NOTHING about this is average. Then it starts all over. You have repeated her saying she will give 100% of herself to her kids...... WHEN does she give 100% to any of them? She may (and I stress the MAY) be giving 100% ---but no one, is getting 100%. Those are innocent children who deserve time with someone who loves them. To have diapers changed regularly, and cuddle time with feedings, not a propped up bottle, stories read, and just time to rock on their lap, or to listen when they tell stories, to build blocks with, or play dolls with. They all need a Mommy--and there is simply not enough Mommy to go around. In your case, and in the Duggars case, there are/were older kids and younger kids, and husbands to help out. She made this decision -- even if it was to only have one more already knowing she was not providing for her existing children on her own. That SHOWS she is not mentally stable enough to do this with 8--------let alone 14. The things she says ---- planning to raise a family on student loans? That is not feasible! Nor in my opinion should it be legal--------there are lots of people out there that want to use that money to actually go to school, and people like this make it impossible. If she had said she plans to prostitute herself and her children out to the tabloids to support herself.....THEN she would be looking at things honestly! More power to her! I personally believe this is why she did it in the first place. That and state $$$$$. Disability payments on a child with a speech delay? Wonder how many hours she spent obtaining that??? I have a grandson with a speech delay---they receive no money, she spends hours with him and they TALK--he is almost 3 now and catching up...slowly but surely. WITHOUT government money----instead a parents time and love. At least if she wrote a book or sold her story to People or whoever then SHE would be supporting them not the taxpayers--who had zero to say about her CHOOSING to have multiple kids. This is a scenario that simply does not work. Yes she says she is going to have help from family and friends. And she currently has compassionate moms bringing breast milk to her babies----but that is not doing it on her own, as she repeatedly states she will do. Sure some friends and family might help----for the kids, but for how long are they going to be able to disrupt their own average size families to help out someone who made a selfish decision? Then what? Pay someone to help? She cannot make enough money working to do that. She is going to HAVE to sell her story, but so be it--------let her! Let her support herself. And those like you, who feel she is deserving can send her $$$. Personally, I hope CPS camps on her doorstep to assure that those babies are watched and cared for properly, and by babies I mean all 14 of them. I have not called her names---though several come to mind!!! Selfish is not a name it is a condition, and one she suffers from tremendously! Kat

Hi y'all, Well, the Dr. nixed the coming home already idea! Looks like maybe Friday....whenever, we will wait, I want her as healthy as possible. Jane they showed us how to work the pump, and all today and we will work with it tomorrow ( at least she will) they are going to add a length to the line now so she can do most of it herself. Kinsey is still fighting some sort of stomach bug...the diarrhea continues. Such fun up and down 500 times a day and night! She says her bottom is sick! Manda ask the Dr. about it, he laughed, and told her she was in the hospital with 200 people with the same bug, not to worry about it. The ENT said today that her preliminary blood work looks like his diagnosis may prevail (Please God) as her nuclear something in the blood and her SED rate were lower than the diagnosing guidelines. Had us laughing and floating on cloud 9. Then the CD Dr. come in and told us that may very well be because the flare is easing. Brought us down in a hurry. I took a book to the hospital and sat and read, we took off Kinsey's boots and let her climb up in bed with her Mama and she put on Spongebob----and in a few minutes Kinsey was snuggled up against her fast asleep. Should probably have been a clue she was getting sick! Manda turned the volume down, and within minutes she too was fast asleep. So I moved my chair outside again! The nurse come by and said she would put a sign on the door to check in at the nurses station. I told her it was not visitors that were the problem, it was the CNA's! They all were really good after that! The 2 of them slept for about 2 hours. Then they played a couple of games of Candy Land. She always takes things to entertain herself, today we took the game. Then we come on home. She has spent most of the evening in the bathroom. She is asleep now and has a chewable Immodium in her system, maybe it will help. Judy I agree that your DIL needs to have time to adjust to her meds and all before the stress of caring for a child again. Hope it all goes well. That is such a difficult thing to deal with, it makes you angry at them, then at the same time you kind of shake your head at yourself and realize it is a mental condition they have no control over. And the condition itself makes keeping on a medication regimine very hard. We have dealt with it through the years with the kids Mom. Her problem is the drugs and alcohol mess with the affectiveness, then she is convinced it isn't working so just quits it all....cold turkey and all hell breaks loose! Think I might go try to get some sleep while Kinsey is, it was about 2 AM when the bathroom runs began last night. I have no problem telling y'all I am tooooooo old for this! Hugs~~ Kat

So what if celebrities hold out for pay for pics of their kids-------just one more thing she was irresposible for. I had my Mom help me when I come home-------her Mom is fed up with her.... How many people does she expect to drop everything at her whim? Kat

****BABY TALK***** AVERT YOUR EYES SUZANNE! Laura, you won't see it. They had all 3 girls sit up in bed, and lean over the bedside table, stretching their backs---and you are tall, they will have a nice canvas to work with! Then both Ali and Manda said they got zingers down their legs, and that their legs literally jumped! I was there when they told Manda, if you roll over, the medicine works like a gas, and a bubble---it will concentrate on one side then. So if your pressure and the baby's heart rate allow you to labor on your back it isn't likely to just do half!! And while it might hurt, it is one of those exciting, hurts that is like NOTHING else! Hurting with a purpose!!! My DD that just had her baby had let someone scare her about the fact that the Dr. breaking her Water would hurt. She was so upset she said because hers did not rupture on its own, and said she burst into tears when the nurse got ready to rupture the membranes, and it was all for nothing! She said she felt the splash of Fluid, and nothing else!! She told us it was the stupidest thing to be afraid of, because she felt nothing! Point being, you will hear all kinds of things and none of them have happened to you, so your experience will be different! Women do it all the time....over and over (although not all of us want 14 kids!) so it can't be as bad as some try to make it! You will be fine, Carson will be adorable.... Kat

Good morning~ I have spoke with Manda on the phone, we have not left yet to go up, I am seeing how Kinsey is doing. She was up a good part of the night with diarrhea--such fun! Manda said the ear is ulcerating in a different area now, so she doesn't know what the plan is, she has not seen a Dr. yet this morning. I am really upset with my son, he has not gone up to the hospital, he calls, and my DIL and grandson have been there, but he says he will "lose" it. So what? We all have! Does he think his Dad didn't shed tears? So he is VERY upset with me. I tried to talk to him and tell him not to lose her to avoid losing her....he hung up quickly. Oh well. Jane I am so glad your bloodwork is good again. What a huge relief that must be for you! I know when my thyroid results come back clear I was walking on cloud 9. Pamela, have you thought about going to an ENT and having them check your sinuses? It sounds as tho that might be a good next step. Since it just keeps coming back. suzyt---glad you posted, and thank you again for the PM. All of you---thank you, from the bottom of my heart---knowing that prayers are coming from every corner of our country, is heartening like nothing else has been. TracyK---please DON'T stop!!! Judy---my thoughts go to you so often. Hang tough with me! Michelle, it was tempting---I really wanted to tell you to hop on the plane! BUT.....this time with your kids----be there, and enjoy every minute of it. Laura, I walked Kinsey up to the nursery window the other day so she could see the babies. I thought of you! I had an epesiotomy---was in the heat of the moment it was done, and was only a distant memory! All 3 girls went with epidurals, and they all worked really well for them. I know LJM was saying they only worked on half of her at a time, and that was due to her having to be on her side during it all but the final delivery...that is just how it works. I left the room when they put Manda's in. When I left she was seriously hurting, and having trouble concentrating through the contractions. They were induced, and would peak and just hang there. So they convinced her to have the epidural. And when I went back in the room, she was smiling and telling me that the anesthesioliogist that administered the epidural, was her new best friend! Manda's MIL at the time is an OR nurse, so had an inside track to the anesthitist----and when Manda said ok, she sent her down and it was done. She sat up, smiled, talked, put on some make up, and stayed a happy camper til delivery time! Then they slowly let it wear down, as she ask, so she could walk sooner. You will be fine. If they have to do an episiotomy, you will deal with it for a few days, then forget it forever! That little guy will be worth it. And besides, maybe you won't have a child like I did with her head fully grown already!!! Well, I just spoke with Manda again, and I am off to learn how to administer her meds AT HOME!!!!! She will get to come home tomorrow, but I have to show today that I can do this!!! One med she will get 2 X a day, the other 3 X a day! I might as well move in with her! I might try to get her to come here for a few days---have a feeling that will go over like a lead balloon..... BBL~~ Kat

Patty, what kind of job outside the home did you have that allowed you alone, no husbands income to count, to raise 10 children in a proper manner, and still allow you time with each child every day? How do you choose which child or children to tuck into bed each night? Lottery system? When my DH and I joined forces we had 3 kids combined his 2, my one. They were each less than a year apart. His son is oldest, and then my DD a year younger, then his DD a year younger than her. With them all being so close age wise, they all went to bed at the same bedtime, and with only 3 there were times it was hard to listen to all they had to say, and to get them to settle in with just one book. We made an effort for years to head to bed at 8:30, and try to be done by 9......and again, that was with 3 kids. When they got older and we moved to "chapter" books, we would let them all snuggle on one bed and read our chapter then off they went to their beds--------there is no bed big enough for her to even do that! She plans to make millions right out of college? To pay to feed, clothe, school, and simply raise that many children, plus hire outside help is not going to be possible on income earned straight out of college. And yes I think she will need permanant outside help.....how is she going to fit in work, housekeeping, cooking meals, doing laundry for a family of 15 all by herself? Ask any working mom of a standard sized family how hard it is, then multiply the work. Yes we resent the welfare, the foodstamps, the disability for being speech delayed! Perhaps if she spent some time speaking with the child each day the delay would not be an issue.....but no, instead she is incubating a litter of innocent babies, who will also fall through the cracks if something is not done. The sap who agreed to father this brood, has a rude awakening coming to him I believe. She wants more with him is what I got from the interview! Selfish is the only way to describe what she has done to these little children. Patty when you had 7---you then CHOSE to add 3 more. WHEN you could apparantly afford to help them become responsible citizens. She knew she was already living hand to mouth on student loans which are meant to educate YOU not raise a HUGE family!!! Does she really think in this economy that those loans are not going to be a bit harder to come by? And if she is 50K in debt now......add that to the impossibility of paying her way directly out of college. It seems quite simple that we as a tax paying group will always support selfish people like this. I can see no way in the world she can do so in a proper manner. Children are expensive!!! It goes beyond the diapers and formula which she said the diapers had already been provided---that is HELP whether she wants to acknowledge it or not! There is the never ending birthday parties kids are invited to, and the "right" tenny shoes! No they do not NEED these things, but wouldn't that figure in to her wanting a better childhood experience for her kids than she had? You can argue all you want, IMHO it was a selfish, and mentally unstable decision on her part, and a foolish one on a Dr, who should answer for this. Kat

Hi Girls, Yes what Harley Nana had to say was taken wrong, she is a very special person, who was just relaying what I had told her....and it was not directed at any of you, or anyone in particular. I tried to call her---her name is Pat, and also Sherry yesterday around the time I spoke with Tracy---and got no answer so talked to her today, and she had no idea, and was simply trying to let the other people here she knew I was close to know. This thread is a lot of pages, and I did not post what exactly is going on with Manda, I simply cannot type the words, it makes it all way too real. Pat sent me a copy of her post, and she did not mean any of you would relate horror stories to me, but we DO get a lot of lurkers....and I simply do not want to hear about someones neighbors brothers nephew who had this disease....unless it is a VERY positive story, and we all know they are not always that way. I hate it when someone rolls their eyes over the choice of Dr.'s and all, it is so scary anyway, I don't want those little doubts planted. Anyway, Pat said she did not come over here to insinuate that anyone would do that to me, but just to share the info if I had not talked to anyone else. She was trying to help me, and keep my friends informed. There was not much news today. The ear is beginning to look some better, the big scab come off, and there is a hole almost all the way through her ear. The ENT is sitting on the fence with the CD Dr.'s Dx. He said on one hand the gland involvement, is totally NOT part of the RP, which leads him to doubt the diagnosis. But on the other hand the ear is horrible, everywhere except the lobe, which is perfectly normal sized, no involvement at all----only the area of cartiledge. Which is highly indicative of the disease. The rhuematologist was more informative today, telling us there are different severities of the disease--which is what I had read. And he said if you work closely with the Dr.'s and make efforts to maintain your health, and he listed a bunch of issues--avoiding the sun, limiting animal fat intake, consistant exercise, without overdoing in one session, avoiding extreme cold.....all these little things will lessen the frequency of the flare ups, and therefore lessen the severity of the illness. It gave us a lot to think about, and some hope. Manda is coping with it better today, I think we all are. I still get overwhelmed, and lose it. Putting Kinsey to bed, hit me very hard tonight. Wierd times, and places are more difficult. I get VERY upset with myself at times, when I let my mind go off in ways I do not want it to.... They got the meds in that they are going to treat her with----and started them today. As soon as they see that she tolerates them, then they will train us to hook her up, and she will be released probably Thursday. Then we will do 10 days of the meds, 4 X a day she will get a bag through her PIC line. Then she goes for the next round of bloodwork. She actually has a home health care nurse who will come out every other day for those 10 days and draw blood for SED rates and something else, I cannot remember, it tells how active the flare of the RP is. So the presence of the stuff they are looking for will be a HUGE determining factor in whether this diagnosis is right. I SOOOOOOOO hope and pray they are wrong. Judy, does Ethan have a room at your place? Kinsey has the room next to ours, which is great, she sleeps on her own, and does fine, but she is afraid of the dark! So she has a night light on, and I HATE light at night!! So the light is making it dificult! But I cannot close a door, I might not hear her. So I am adjusting! We had a snow day here, schools were closed. So Manda's sister wanted to go to the hospital with me when I went. So I go to pick her up at my ex's house---and Kinsey and I are sitting in the van waiting for her, she is a teenager, so was not ready!! It is beautiful out, white snow on every single branch of the trees, and in all the diamonds on the chain link fences, just really pretty. I am thinking to myself, this is a good sign....ok, just hoping. Then out between 2 of the trailers (they live in a mobile home park) come 2 cats----and they begin lovin' in the middle of the road! Kinsey gets all upset and think they are fighting!! I told her no they are playing. She says "Oh they ARE Granny, look that one is jumping up and down!" I couldn't say anything, I just laughed and was extremely grateful that Courtney chose that time to come out!!! I always get the fun stuff! Well I am going to try to go get some sleep. I took some Tylenol PM to see if it would help. I wake up and my mind begins churning, and I just cannot sleep. I got a really nice message from one of our readers---she says she reads our thread, but has not participated.....suzyt. Please feel free to join us!! And thank you so much for your special message. Night all, Kat

We are up dressed and ready to leave for the hosp. and Rick called, there is a huge accident out on the highway and traffic is stopped, for awhile from the sounds of it. Now they are running the thing on the bottom of the TV. It snowed most of yesterday, and is coming down hard right now. Rick shoveled and cleaned my van before he left for work, and you can't tell he did anything--solid white blanket again. I called Manda, but there were nurses and maybe a Dr. there, she just said "they are here, I will call you back" so I have no idea who or what is going on, and cannot get there. The back way in, is a twisty windy road that runs along side the river, and it is icy in spots all the time through the winter---and I do not drive it unless there is no other option. The farm is actually on that road, but less than an eighth of a mile from a cross over to the main hiway. So my plan right now is to wait and hear from Manda. Then depending on what she has heard or has planned I will make my next move. I just had to raise my voice at Kinsey to take off her coat--she was standing at the door, ready to go see her Mama. She made her cards last night, and is extra anxious to go give them to her. And my friend Errol give her money to buy her Mama flowers with, so she is really faunching at the bit to go. It is such a sucky morning, my Mom is begging me to sit here and wait for awhile, she is VERY afraid of bad weather and driving in the snow.....and yet Manda is alone. Think I need to go into Terry's room without a door and just scream for a few minutes! I did some reading on line about 2 this morning, and found that there are different severities of this disease. So I found something to give me hope. I know I need to simply pray that God's Will be done....and I am finding that impossible. I want to dictate how this is going to be...I am afterall the Mom. And not being allowed to do that is harder than I knew. Well I am going to go see if the state hiway has any updates on line. Kat

Hi girls, There has been no news really today. Manda underwent several biopsies and tissue samplings today and will have an extended visit with the rhuemetologist tomorrow. It has been an extremely emotional, stressful day. I am not sure which end is up. Nothing had prepared me for this, I am not sure being prepared is possible. I am doing my best to control myself, and not to let it affect Kinsey any more than usual. Jason was an ass, and refused to bring her back when he was supposed to. Which was not something Manda needed today. When he did bring her, I had a pretty serious talk with him. He left in tears, but it did no good. Within a short time, it was all about him and his life again---he called her to tell her his gf was in ER and probably going to have surgery and would be on the same floor. Like who gives a shit? Manda kept it together pretty well for Kinsey. When we got there, she held her tight and shed a few tears, then wiped them dry and went on like all was well. They colored and watched Spongebob, and even napped together for a bit. I literally sat outside her door and forbid anyone entrance! Even ask the nurse if she could delay the IV for a little while---she said she could and just to let her know when she woke up. I had to sit outside the room, I could not sit and watch them. I took one of the zanax that I was given and thought I would never have use for. Thanks so much for all the messages and love. I simply could not type it out. I tried. To see it makes it all too real I guess. They are attributing all the factors of her RA Dx to this as well---there are several factors in common. I keep hoping this is a nightmare we will wake up from. There are studies being done at both the Scottsdale Mayo Clinic and the University of NM---so she will be referred to one, depending on the results of all the tests they are doing. Ryan, the old BF come to the hospital today, he heard through our son. He spent over an hour with her, and called me tonight and said he would take Kinsey with him anytime. Possibly with her not being the competition Lindzie would be better. Right now I just want her with me. Becky offered to take her home. I just want her here. Not sure what happens from here. Hoping even if the worst is true, that the flare eases soon so we can move on to treatment. She read an article by a woman who was diagnosed with this 13 years ago, and she has become a strict Vegan, eating no animal protein, or dairy, and her symptoms have disappeared, she has not had a flare in years. So she said she might do some serious life changes. She has a good attitude, but is so scared. Seeing her fear is so much worse than my own. I am rambling. I will be in touch, and will have my cell phone. Love you all. Kat

Oh Judy! While medical issues plague us right now, they are so different from what you are dealing with, and I am soooo sorry. My DS is not real happy in his marriage, and they are expecting again...Rick keeps telling him he needs to work harder at it...no idea if he is listening, they are both EXTREMELY selfish! Where will little Ethan go??? Poor baby. The prayers will be flying right back at ya! I know the heartache.... Kinsey is a goin' and a blowin' like nothing ever happen!!! She has not had any oozing or anything, and is in fact itching---which is a sign of healing. She is self medicating!! The Dr. showed her how to apply the hydrocortisone----so she does. She is actually spending a couple of hours with her Dad!!! Shock and surprise!! He will bring her home here anytime....but she was happy to see him, and that is what matters. Manda is not doing well. Her white count is rising. And the gland area behind the ear is swelling seriously! So the plan is to drain it tomorrow. Something she is looking forward to--to release the pressure, but also dreading the actual draining itself. Her sisters are with her tonight, we spent a good part of the day with her while Rick is off. It is snowing like crazy outside. This morning it was mid 40's and Kinsey and Connor were in the backyard on the swings, and blowing bubbles in shirtsleeves! Then in 3 hours, we are well below freezing, and the snow is piling up! Will use the road conditions to determine whether I go back afterwhile or not. It is not like she is a kid who won't understand. Let's see Michelle, there is so much to be thankful for...... My husband, even when he wierds out, is supportive, and loving. We have a warm, cozy home, and plenty of food, and the love of family and friends. We do NOT have any constipated animals to deal with on top of all this other junk!!! Sorry, couldn't resist!!! And I have all of you, who I know are supporting me from every corner of our country!!! And I know that YOU each know the support is always right there for you too! XOXOX Kat

Hi girls~ Well, Kinsey is a goin' and a blowin' like nothing ever happened to her. I took her to the pediatrician, and she checked her out really well, and she sliced an area just up inside, and had an abrasion from the scrape of the door rail, the entire length of her little girlie parts. She had quit bleeding, but the next morning she started up again, and the Dr. said it was because she was swelling, so the swelling caused the wounds and abrasions to open up. Had me put 1% hydrocortisone on it, and let it heal. It oozed for awhile, but since her bath last night, there has been none. She (Dr.) also had us pushing lots of fluids, and doubling her OTC Vitamins, as she did lose a lot of blood. Plus the extra Fluid did as you mentioned Pat, and diluted the urine. But the pediatrician said while it might burn a bit, it was the best thing she could do! That the urine is sterile, and will help in the healing process. Encouraged her to take baths, just no bubbles!! She is just fine again. And feels like somewhat of a star! Tells her story to anyone who will listen!! Her Mama is another story. The infection is not responding to any of the antibiotics they have tried. They are on #5 now, along with the vancomyicin, that they thought originally was working. They put in a PIC line so they can use stronger meds, as they get stronger, they tend to eat up veins, so------into the artery with them now. The PIC line is under the bicep of her right arm. Her white count is headed up again, and the swelling is increasing today, so they plan on draining it tomorrow...something she is dreading and looking forward to all at the same time. The pressure in the ear and gland is so severe, that she is on constant pain meds. So that will be a relief, while she is not looking forward to the actual draining itself, she is ready to get on with it. She was in the hospital, for 2 days, released, then readmitted 29 hours later, andhas been there this time since Thursday morning. Her work is being great, but in this economy, being off for any reason is not a good thing, you do not want to be dispensable! Rick is recovering!!! But all you have to do is say anything about it, and he acknowledges that he had never seen anything like it, and hopes to never again! And this is the man that literally threw up buckets of blood during his GI bleed, and has hauled me to the hospital hemhorraging 2 different times!!! He just says "that poor little girl!" Thanks for all the well wishes. I am heading back to the hospital soon, it is snowing like hell, so I am dreading it. The hospital is in kinda a poor section of town....why is that so common???? But, waiting to hear from her. Right now her sisters are there (on her Dad's side) so she has company. If she is tired when they leave, I will just let her sleep. Will update as things change....thanks again for being there. This 24/7 parenting of a 4 year old is exhausting!!!! Hugs~~ Kat

Yes I reported the Dr. and have to go see the Admin on Monday. I am doing my best to keep good thoughts, feeling that whatever I think will happen, will happen kind of thing....so I am only allowing good thoughts. I am going to speak with her (Manda) today, and try to get her to be more assertive. She is usually not this laid back! Rick is acting all wierd....I have had enough of his wierdness! He needs to get it together and be here---he has several guys from work he is trying to help with this or that, and I want him to take care of family first. He cannot take Kinsey with him to move things so he needs to keep that in mind. I think it is an escape for him from his fears, but also from us who are driving him nutso! He loves the grandkids, but he is not used to a 4 year old full time who wants to know what he is doing every second and why!!! Makes me laugh, makes him crazy! He needs to get over it! Well we are off to the hospital. Will check in later. No bleeding at all overnight for Kinsey---YAY!!! Kat

Yeah Patty, I too could probably get anything I want from my DH too....really never pushed it or tried....BUT--------I don't HAVE to have sex with my DH either....but I WANT to......A lot!!!! Yep, that floats my boat! And I didn't even have to ASK for that boat!!! LMAO!! Kat

Yep Michelle is right, that is exactly what happened with Miss Kinsey. One foot in the tub, one out, stepping out, and the foot still in the tub, actually slid under the mat and boom. In her favor was that she is so little she only had inches to fall, but she fell full weight on it. It sliced or caused abrasion the full length it looked like. No one, Dr. included really prodded or poked around. She took a bath tonight--which Dr. said was good, just no bubbles. AND she waited for me to put her in and take her out. Terry, her Dad is being a jerk! He has still refused to pay any CS. He will not allow Manda into the storage shed, because HE has not paid the bill----so Kinsey in their new house has a bed WE had in storage, Not her day bed. Manda bought her a daybed when she got big enough for a bed. Jason bought one for his house too. So when she moved over there, they put her daybed in storage, because her room was already set up. So her bed, and matching dresser, everything is in storage....Manda's TV, her microwave....everything they had doubles of. BUT the storage shed is in Jasons name, and he is pissed off because he heard she went to Kansas, and he knows that the friend she went to see, is the younger sister of an old boyfriend, and that she saw him while she was there. Which is BS, he was holding her stuff for ransom before that. BUT......he is busy. He and his girlfriend just bought a new house....they close on it Tuesday. So he is busy packing and all, they even sent her DD to stay with her Grandma, so they could work. Manda finally told him he had to get her stuff and all the CS he owes her before the 15th or she is filing against him, and claiming he has not paid CS in 9 months. Which enraged him! Because she really was living with him part of that time.....but like she told him....prove it. Show the court the cancelled checks.....you cannot show any court ordered CS being paid! I know my DD, she won't do it, but it is a good threat!!! Bottom line, is he does not have time right now for Kinsey. Shame, because when he has her she seems to have a great time, and she loves him. But he is more "into" his new family right now. I get frustrated and tired of 4 year old questions....why everything! What is that? What does _________ mean? Non stop! BUT I would rather have her with me. I can assure her that we will go see Mommy, and ease her fears. Even if she did get hurt, I feel safer with her with me. He has never had accidents or issues, she has always been fine with him, this is a mental needing her to be ok with the separation. She gets scared, and I can hold her and tell her how much Mommy is missing her too, and we call Manda. I know Jason would not do that. He would go to her if she cried, but he would distract her, or something, not reassure her or nurture the Mom/Child thing. And Kinsey is having a hard time sharing her Daddy anyway....so to face sharing Dad and Mommy being totally unavailable is a lot for a 4 year old. So while it might be nice for a couple of hours to read, or clean even without help.....it is ok. It really IS ok. It is also one of the only ways I can really DO anything for my DD. I want to fix her and can't. I CAN ease her mind with this. My MIL today hinted that I was being taken advantage of because of having Kinsey 24/7. She did not however invite her to play over there for a little while! LOL Jane, I am sure you are right, heck I am guilty!!! I put off my hair! I figured heck all I am doing is trimming the ends right now---nothing major. Finances might get really tight, so I am making adjustments all over the place. I bet it does hit you hard.....maybe I should call Lori (my stylist) and apologize!!! Laura, I have never cooked a duck. Never cooked a Quail. I have cooked a chicken! A turkey! Even cornish game hens----but that is it!!! Well, I am going to read some email, and go to bed. My mind will not shut down.....hate that!! See y'all tomorrow! Kat

Hey girls, I wish I had news to share, but the news is that there is no news. No change. They have now tried 4 antibiotics, and there is no response to any of them. Rather than change types again, they are increasing the potency of the vancamyicin. They got the PIC line in, and will be increasing the strength....IF her Dr. EVER shows up! She is being seen by a CDC specialist, and she and I had words! She is supposed to be this specialist for communicable diseases. We can barely understand her and have to ask many times for her to repeat things. She is from India. I would say Indian....but around here that is not right..... So anyway she is there she is going on about no change etc., and she is messing with Manda's ear, without gloves.....and tells us she is going to go see if the contrast CT scans are on the computer yet. And walks out------------without washing her hands! She touched the doorknob. The very doorknob WE touch, after we wash our hands every time we go in and out. There are signs everywhere WASH IN/WASH OUT. I follow her down the hall asking her about it, she sits down at the computer and begins typing WHILE I am asking her about it. So now all of us who touch the door, and all those who touch the computer might as well have been handling the ear itself. Well now she hasn't been back, and the ENT who admitted Manda has NEVER been in to see her...... It does not look better, it does not feel better.....her blood count remains in the same range. She is getting irritable with me....because I want something done! So I am home, letting her deal with it for now. I am upset and frustrated with the hospital, which is not unusualy, but getting that way with her as well, for being so complacent about it. With her being an adult, they do not listen much to me! Oh well......we are going back over shortly, Rick wants to go see her. I thought about Kinsey and I staying home, but she wants to go of course! She, Kinsey is doing good. Very little oozing....if any this afternoon, I have not checked. She of course prefers me not to!! Her color looks better, she isn't as pale. We have really pushed liquids, and good food on her...as directed by the pediatrician. Jane, thank you so much for calling! It was good to talk to you! You are such a sweetheart! My Dad has the stomach bug going around. He is losing things at both ends, and running a fever. So there went any back up with Kinsey! Becky is usually right there, but they are all in Albq. have been for a few days, Gary's Mom and Sister and the families are all there as well, so they are having a mini reunion. I thought perhaps my MIL would offer to let her hang out and play with Connor and my sons DD from his first marriage, but she has not offered. So Kinsey is just doing the best she can. It is hard to be 4 and not touch things in the hospital, and ride back and forth all the time.....not to mention dealing with a seriously grouchy Granny!!! I am just so incredibly thankful that Kinsey was not hurt worse. The amount of blood was UNREAL! Well ladies, I am going to go have a "discussion" if you will, with my DH. He is taking wood out to the shop, like he plans to build a fire. If he is, I am outta here, I am not waiting while he plays motorcycle with the guy across the street, I want to come home at a decent time tonight!!! Will check in soon. Pam LOVED hearing good news about the diss, not so much about the problem student!!! Kat

Hi girls~ Well the news with Manda is not so good, she is not responding yet to any of the antibiotics they have tried. It is not spreading or worsening noticibly, but it is not improving. Tonight they have her scheduled to go in and have the PIC line put in, so they can try some more potent meds, but they would eat up the vein, so have to be in a bigger artery. She is still feeling pretty good, and her fever is normal again. I took Kinsey to the Dr. today, because she has oozed and bled pretty steadily all day, after it pretty much quitting over night. The Dr. was able to see where she hit, and she has literally cut or abraded from front allllll the way back. Nothing is terribly deep, and will heal without issue she said but the problem right now is it is bruising and swelling, and the swelling is keeping the wounds open, and they are bleeding. So she has to sit with ice packs on it for 5-10 minutes each hour til bedtime,and for part of tomorrow. Then when she goes for 6 hours with no bleeding at all, we change to heat, so that it increases blood flow to help with healing. She said nothing would have been different taking her in last night, other than the trauma to Kinsey mentally. She is such a sweetheart the pediatrician is. She kept telling me it was an accident, and Kinsey would be fine. So Kinsey and I are home....Rick is on his way, and one of us will stay here with Kinsey and do the ice packs, and the other will go be there when they bring Manda back out of the cath lab where they will insert her line. I am beyond exhausted! Hives are bad, but lessening, saw my Dr. he is Manda's PCP as well, and come to see her today, and he gave me a Rx for a bit stronger dose while we get through this, and then we are going to experiment with some other options. I have dinner going, and need to go make some breadsticks----everyone have a good night, I will get back and read up---I just posted without reading!! Love to all y'all!! Kat

Forgive me in advance, I am copy and pasting this so I can keep everyone informed, and not spend all night typing. Manda was readmitted to the hospital with a positive MRSA test. They are seriously thinking she might lose her ear...and are VERY concerned with the proximity of this infection to her brain. They readmitted her today, after releasing her yesterday. But sure enough the infection originally called staph, has morphed into a MRSA and is not responding to the 4 antibiotics previously tried. So that was the story through til tonight...... OMG girls the night I have had.....I hate to come here and do nothing but complain and monopolize things, but you just have no idea. Manda has now got a spot on her leg and one on the right rib cage they are watching. She is getting IV antibiotics, vancomyicin or something, 2 times a day. So I was stressed with that, and Kinsey was getting antsy, so we come home about 7:30. She ate a bowl of ice cream and wanted a bubble bath, so I had her in the tub. I usually sit on the floor next to the tub with the lap top, and just hang out. She decided she was done, and I reached for her towel and realized I left it on the hamper outside the bathroom, by the linen closet. So I told her just a second, and got up, and turned away to sit the laptop away from the Water, and to get the towel, and I heard her scream. She tried to get out on her own, and straddled the edge of the tub, with the rail for the slider doors and fell! I turned, I was right around the corner, and she was covered in blood from her crotch to the floor. I screamed for Rick, and grabbed her up and rounded into her bedroom and laid her on the bed. She is dripping wet, and pouring blood from inside her. He come barrelling in, and about passed out. I am trying to tell him what happen, and he handed me a towel. We kept trying to stop the blood so I could see what was happening. Finally deciding to just take her to the hospital. Kinsey had quit crying, and was only worried about getting "pokes" at the hospital. So I got some panties that were left here from Lindzie, and were big, and pulled them on over the towel, and got some big jammies, and tried to get them on her, it is 20 some degrees, and she is wet....and then I called her Mommy. I held it together until I had to tell her that I let Kinsey get hurt seriously, she is of course upset, although not with me. Kinsey talked to her, and I checked the bleeding, which had slowed a lot. We decided to give it 10-15 minutes and see if it would stop. It slowed considerably. So I talked to Manda again. To touch her, to clean her up, and for her to walk etc. was not hurting her. So we decided unless it began pouring like it was to wait. OMG the amount of blood was unreal. I know that is an area with lots of blood flow and she had been sitting in a hot tub, but nothing prepared this Granny's heart for seeing that. Nothing. We sat for awhile with her on my lap, and finally I took her and laid her back on the bed, Rick had stripped it....and we removed the towel, and cleaned her up. I cannot see where she cut/tore herself, it is up inside. It cannot be deep inside, but inside out of view. And I was not going to go hunting, which is what I was afraid the ER Dr. would do. I got her cleaned up, and of all things, I put a pad on her---left over from my TT bandages! She is still oozing a bit, but not much. I gave her a bottle of water and told her she needed to drink as much as possible, so the urine is diluted and won't burn so much. She has actually peed twice, and it makes the bleeding worse, but it stops quickly. I gave her some Tylenol, and she fell asleep in my arms just a bit ago, so I laid her in bed. I cannot believe how bad it was. Rick is still pale as a ghost, he is in shock from it, I think we both are. She is chatting away and wanting pop corn and being normal Kinsey. I was right there! If I had not forgot the towel I would have lifted her out of the tub like I always do. But she said when I went to get the towel she heard the phone and thought it was her Mommy and she wanted to talk. It was not her Mommy, and in fact I have no idea who he hung up on....hadn't thought about that til just now! My poor baby....both of them! Manda's ear is horrible, and she is stuck in a hospital knowing her baby is hurt. And the little baby was hurt, very badly! And now I have finally relaxed and started crying and cannot stop....I am just so thankful she is ok. I am taking her to see her pediatrician tomorrow, and let her look at it. I know she will be gentle, and Kinsey knows her. Unlike an unknown ER Dr. who may have been rough with her. Manda and I have talked again, and thought this way would be less traumatic for her. Thanks for letting me pour it out.....again. I am so glad y'all are here. Gonna go check on her again....only been in half a dozen times while typing this post, she is sleeping soundly......I will check her bleeding off and on through the night. Rick and I decided tho, that if it starts up heavy again we are calling an ambulance, so we go straight in to ER. Will keep you posted. I am being very careful, I don't even hug my own DD, and don't let Kinsey. We blow kisses. And we wash when we go in and out. But ya know her Dad is worthless, and we are all she has, I have to go. My head feels totally wierd, lotsa hive bumps! Odds and end ones, I am surprised with the panic I am not a mass of them.....they may be yet to come!!! Hope not. OMG I cannot believe I let her get hurt like this! I feel like such an idiot. I know to never leave a child in the tub---but the water was draining out....I needed her towel. The poor thing is going to be so sore. She will never want a bath at Granny's again. Will be in touch some time tomorrow, will be at the hospital most of the day...and Kinsey's Dr. hugs~~ Kat

OMG girls the night I have had.....I hate to come here and do nothing but complain and monopolize things, but you just have no idea. Manda has now got a spot on her leg and one on the right rib cage they are watching. She is getting IV antibiotics, vancomyicin or something, 2 times a day. So I was stressed with that, and Kinsey was getting antsy, so we come home about 7:30. She ate a bowl of ice cream and wanted a bubble bath, so I had her in the tub. I usually sit on the floor next to the tub with the lap top, and just hang out. She decided she was done, and I reached for her towel and realized I left it on the hamper outside the bathroom, by the linen closet. So I told her just a second, and got up, and turned away to sit the laptop away from the water, and to get the towel, and I heard her scream. She tried to get out on her own, and straddled the edge of the tub, with the rail for the slider doors and fell! I turned, I was right around the corner, and she was covered in blood from her crotch to the floor. I screamed for Rick, and grabbed her up and rounded into her bedroom and laid her on the bed. She is dripping wet, and pouring blood from inside her. He come barrelling in, and about passed out. I am trying to tell him what happen, and he handed me a towel. We kept trying to stop the blood so I could see what was happening. Finally deciding to just take her to the hospital. Kinsey had quit crying, and was only worried about getting "pokes" at the hospital. So I got some panties that were left here from Lindzie, and were big, and pulled them on over the towel, and got some big jammies, and tried to get them on her, it is 20 some degrees, and she is wet....and then I called her Mommy. I held it together until I had to tell her that I let Kinsey get hurt seriously, she is of course upset, although not with me. Kinsey talked to her, and I checked the bleeding, which had slowed a lot. We decided to give it 10-15 minutes and see if it would stop. It slowed considerably. So I talked to Manda again. To touch her, to clean her up, and for her to walk etc. was not hurting her. So we decided unless it began pouring like it was to wait. OMG the amount of blood was unreal. I know that is an area with lots of blood flow (to prepare for Laura's condition!) and she had been sitting in a hot tub, but nothing prepared this Granny's heart for seeing that. Nothing. We sat for awhile with her on my lap, and finally I took her and laid her back on the bed, Rick had stripped it....and we removed the towel, and cleaned her up. I cannot see where she cut/tore herself, it is up inside. It cannot be deep inside, but inside out of view. And I was not going to go hunting, which is what I was afraid the ER Dr. woul do. I got her cleaned up, and of all things, I put a pad on her---left over from my TT bandages! She is still oozing a bit, but not much. I gave her a bottle of water and told her she needed to drink as much as possible, so the urine is diluted and won't burn so much. She has actually peed twice, and it makes the bleeding worse, but it stops quickly. I gave her some Tylenol, and she fell asleep in my arms just a bit ago, so I laid her in bed. I cannot believe how bad it was. Rick is still pale as a ghost, he is in shock from it, I think we both are. She is chatting away and wanting pop corn and being normal Kinsey. I was right there! If I had not forgot the towel I would have lifted her out of the tub like I always do. But she said when I went to get the towel she heard the phone and thought it was her Mommy and she wanted to talk. It was not her Mommy, and in fact I have no idea who he hung up on....hadn't thought about that til just now! My poor baby....both of them! Manda's ear is horrible, and she is stuck in a hospital knowing her baby is hurt. And the little baby was hurt. And now I have finally relaxed and started crying and cannot stop....I am just so thankful she is ok. I am taking her to see her pediatrician tomorrow, and let her look at it. I know she will be gentle, and Kinsey knows her. Unlike an unknown ER Dr. who may have been rough with her. Manda and I have talked again, and thought this way would be less traumatic for her. Thanks for letting me pour it out.....again. I am so glad y'all are here. Gonna go check on her again....only been in half a dozen times while typing this post, she is sleeping soundly......I will check her bleeding off and on through the night. Rick and I decided tho, that if it starts up heavy again we are calling an ambulance, so we go straight in to ER. Will keep you posted. Terry I am being very careful, I don't even hug my own DD, and don't let Kinsey. We blow kisses. And we wash when we go in and out. But ya know her Dad is worthless, and we are all she has, I have to go. My head feels totally wierd, lotsa hive bumps! Odds and end ones, I am surprised with the panic I am not a mass of them.....they may be yet to come!!! Hope not. OMG I cannot believe I let her get hurt like this! I feel like such an idiot. I know to never leave a child in the tub---but the water was draining out....I needed her towel. The poor thing is going to be so sore. She will never want a bath at Granny's again. I am gonna go try to deep breath and relax.... Hugs~~ Kat

Judy he actually said they would test everyday when she went in for the abradement, because the MRSA is a mutation, that begins often times as another more generalized infection. Manda is a positive strep carrier, which is really common among RA patients, but he is concerned with the existing infection, plus the new one, and the possiblility of the treatment only handling one of them. And the underlying concern all along is how close this infection lies to her brain. I just got off the phone with her, and she was being taken down for a CT scan of the neck, see how much tissue has died or is involved. IV's are in and going strong. When she got the call that it was positive, she stopped at the Sonic and got a BIG drink she said and she drank heavily going to the hospital so her IV would be an easy stick. Sometimes some inside info helps. Plus she does understand a lot of what they are talking about....and is not one to take crap off of anyone. In the family picture, she is the one standing next to me. She is about 25 pounds less than in the picture, she was right in the middle of an RA flare and swells like crazy during them. Also in the back with Rick and I are our son and his wife the ones who are expecting again. Sitting in the chairs are my inlaws, and our DD Abbey that just had her baby. She was early pregnant there. And then the grandkids totally ignoring the camera, instead focusing on a remote car one of the nephews was playing with!!! Got all the bags packed here. As of now she is not in "quartantine" as I call her.....but that is subject to change, she was not in a real room yet, but a temporary situation while they get her tests run, and her set up on IV. Will check in as I can! Kat

Got a call while at lunch with Marie from Manda's Dr.'s office, they needed to get in touch with her--her MRSA test from yesterday was positive. She didn't answer her phone as she was coming over the mountain from work and was without service. She got the call within minutes, and is now checking in, and getting settled. I am waiting for her sister (1/2) to show up from school so she can go with me to help with Kinsey. I have been to her house and got her a bag together (hard work since some of it had never been unpacked!) Please say a prayer for her....and that I can hide these damn hives and get in to see her. XOXOXO Kat

Hi~ HAPPY BIRTHDAY LAURA!!!!!! Hope it is a wonderful day for you!!! I forgot to update my reminder for this year, so I did not get a card sent out, I am so bad!!! I had a horrible time sleeping last night, I worried about Manda, and with good reason, she is worse this morning by far, so is headed back to the Dr. at 1---he is in surgery this morning. I would not be surprised at all for them to readmit her. This is insurance issues I would bet, plus now she gets to pay double! Insurance sucks so bad! Judy, some people are so inconsiderate! And I know when Manda was working as a nurse, some of them were so mean! Her biggest issues were with Dr.'s wives in the private practice sector, but when she did her rotations in the hospital, she said it was like she threatened them or something and it seemed like everyone was out to get one another. The fear that one would have more work than another, was a constant battle! She come home in tears many a day. It is a shame that on a whole, women are mean to one another, they don't seem to band together like men do. Brownies.....well I am more passive aggressive than Michelle....she might be grumping more as he prepared to leave. I would have been mad, then I would have set out to show him what he would be missing! Those brownies would have been baking as he walked out the door. Enough so the smell was mouth watering....but oh darn, they aren't done yet! We'll think of you while we eat them! I would have fixed all his favorites, and done so with a plan in mind (I REALLY AM evil!) Like Rick loves meatloaf, and the biggest part he loves about it, is the sandwiches the next few days with the leftover. So I would have fed him the meatloaf, when he knew dang good and well, he was not getting any sandwiches!! Now to be honest, I CAN be that way. Rick has seldom made me be that way! And I usually fess up that I am trying to be mean to him! I did crap like that to him once when I was mad at him. I was pouting!! I baked his meatloaf, then offered the leftovers to his Dad---I laughed out loud at the look on his face. He could not deny his Dad because he too loves it, but he wanted it, and he knew I did it because I was mad! LOL I come in last night, and he had finished dinner, and had the house all warm. None of that surprised me. So I went in the kitchen to grab a bite, and OMG-the kitchen was cleaned up! My meeting got sidetracked talking lapband as opposed to Avon!! And with the weight I have gained I feel like such a fraud. Which is silly, when I was this weight before on the way down, I felt successful, but right now I don't. It is NOT the bands fault so I just said good things! I made Rick spew coffee out this morning. I was telling him that besides the lap band we got off on the subject of the woman who just had the 8 babies when she already had 6 at home...well at her parents home. I said that someone on the thread said she must have a clown car for a uterus.....he choked coffee all over!!! TracyK--glad to see you did not forsake your Mama!! LOL Jane.....hope your fill helps, I need one soooooo bad! Terry, I bet the break will give you great ideas for when you get your jewelry stuff back out. I wear my earrings all the time. Almost wore them today, but changed my plans. I am going to lunch with my friend Marie, and it always involves chips & salsa. I had on a white shirt......nah, changed into a red print thermal one!!! Salsa shows less!!! I can be a slob! Well Kinsey is ready to work now. All her Barbies are put away, and time to do some letters!! BBL~~ XOXOX Kat

My Grandpa come from a much smaller family than we are speaking of, and he swore he had a brother somewhere named Dammit that he had never met, because anytime his Dad wanted him he started out with the oldest and went down...."John! er James! uh Bill! AH Dammit! CLIFF!!!!!!" So how one would remember.....I suppose it is like a teacher, they eventually learn a classroom--or even several--but I am glad I don't have to do that!!! As for the Duggars---they DO have STRONG family dynamics. They have older children assigned to younger ones....and that makes a difference! Trying to feed and diaper and allow one infant to sleep properly is a challenge sometimes. Especially the feeding with preemies....let alone 8! Add to that the oldest of the others is 7 and will be minimal help in the overall view of things. Besides SHE had those kids, not the other kids. We kinda laughed on another thread about all the "J" names, that the next one is going to be named "Justanother" Duggar!! It happened to be on the other night, a rerun I believe of the last baby being born--so I left it there while I was here on the computer, and I did notice the teen girls are changing! There is make up visible, and they are laughing and carrying on like most girls do, and they used to not be that way at all! I too LOVE the clown car reference----so totally fitting!!! Kat

So Tracy, don't you have any like REAL family? I know you mention your folks and your sister....and I also KNOW if BB is a 2nd family, then we Violets have to be #1......where does that leave the blood kind????? HUH????? Kat

They were also very honest and said yes they are doing the show for financial reasons....that no they do not always like the days the camera follows them around--but it helps provide for their family. When you have to feed and provide for all the needs of 8 kids....let alone 14, you HAVE to do something! Families are struggling in this economy that have 2-3 kids. I am of 2 schools, if they gave her a show, or commercial deals or whatever, then at least SHE could support her kids, and not rely on welfare. And I would not have to watch anything I chose not to. But on the other hand glorifying such a selfish move, and giving her anything for it kinda rubs the wrong way!!! Guess nothing makes me happy!! LOL Kat