Kat817

slim----very likely you will have to say it point blank to DH, or the MIL one. Chances are your DH cannot even tell you why he is striving so hard for things to be different with his mom, must just be the way we are hard wired. Abuse comes in many ways, and he sounds like he had his share of emotional abuse from her via neglect. Doing anything and everything to appease and put yourself in a favorable light to the abuser is very common. I hate that he is there. I hate that I was there at one point in my life---but I was. I let that bastard beat the living crap out of me, and convince me it was my fault! I come out the other side, and I hope your DH does to, with you still by his side....it might not be a pleasant journey------but in the end, one WELL worth it! Getting away from the emotional attachment, is easier said than done. Our whole lives we are told and made to believe that our Moms have our best interests at heart, so maybe, somewhere probably when he was young, he let himself believe he was at fault. When she is not around, and he has nothing but strength he doesn't fall for it. But when she is.....she makes him feel he is lesser. I am not a psychiatrist, and can only compare the feelings to that of what I had with my ex. I was raised in a Norman Rockwell painting kind of life. My parents were not abusive, and were happily married, my grandparents were both married for over 50 years---I was the first divorce! I EXPECTED to be treated the way I saw my father and grandfathers treat their wives....when it didn't happen, I was almost immobilized. I let him convince me it was because I was not a worthy wife! I became such a doormat! I tried everything to be the perfect wife....which of course does not exist, and even if I had managed to act perfect--he would have found a reason to abuse, that is who he was! Eventually I saw it.....and realized it was his shortcomings, not mine. Friends helped me see it, they tried to make me see it pre marriage, but I knew best!!! HA!!!! I would focus on how much different his relationship with his son is, than that his with his Mom.... I am in no way condoning, her taking over, or him putting up with it. Just giving my own insight into WHY he might put up with it. My former son in law never had a healthy relationship with his Mom and took it the other way, and has NEVER treated a woman well--including the Mom to this day. Makes me hope we have done better with our kids!!! Makes me a little scared too!!!! LOL

Heather, about all I can say...is what took you so long???? LOL It is not possible to please all the people all the time on here, and trying is a waste of effort. We all have opinions, and as long as we acknowledge that and respect others can have differing ones, things go ok. Some people just have an inability to accept that others feel different, and have to be tacky about it. There is also an issue with this type of communication, that inflections of certain words, things done in a sarcastic manner, even if joking, do not come across the way they were meant often times. When it happens with me, and I feel I might have overstepped, or been in the wrong, I have no issue apologizing. I find myself wrong in RL and having to do the same at times!! I know--can you believe it??? Me wrong!! WOW!!! Shocking huh???!!! LOL If it is the other person being petty, or if they are one of our beloved members who simply get their jollies by going around being difficult---then just ignore them--that works better than anything. They want the attention of an arguement. Ignoring them really gets their goat!!! I am feeling rotten. Have both Kinsey and Connor. Connor has peed in his pants twice, and pooped in the only diaper I had left. He is now wearing little girl pink panties. My son will have a hissy fit. But I do not have a way to do differently. His Mother did not leave his carseat. I put the diaper on him and went to put it in the van, and she did not put it on the porch. Makes me upset! Oh well.......his life is in turmoil, he is 3 and this is the only way he can act out, so I am trying very hard to be understanding and not angry. I am angry alright, but it is with his parents not him. So I will check in tonight. Will be a busy day--------- Hugs girlies!!!

Pre cancer I had long, very straight, fairly light blonde hair. When it grew back in it was darker, much coarser, and some is curly to the point of being frizzy, and yet other locks, are much straigher. It has been a challenge ever since! I lost probably 50% of my hair post banding, seriously! And I did all the Protein, the Vitamins, and ate a healthy diet, but lost it anyway. It however grew in same as before....rather confused!!!! My hair is light brown/dark blonde, with lots of natural variations in it, so while I can occasionally see what I think is a gray hair, it blends so is not noticable. DH is the only one out of he and his siblongs who was not gray in their 20's. He is almost 50, and his hair is beginning to have gray, and his beard is about 50/50. He has a full head of hair tho, while his brother who was always the long hair hippie, lost his early, and now bics his head regularly! His oldest sister is white headed, and dyes it really light blonde (which is still a darker color than her own!!!!) And his other sister went gray---not white, and she lets it be natural. It has a tendency to yellow. When it was whiter, it was kinda pretty, but where I lost my hair post banding, she lost some, but her hair went yellow-----pretty strange! Her bangs area has never changed, it continues to be a yellow gray. It still throws me to run into old friends, and see them all gray headed, it is like WTH happened???!!! How did they get old without me!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL I wanna put something on to cook, and be ready for an easy dinner------------anyone have any ideas??? Kat

I finally drug myself out of bed!!! I laid in there and watched TV for a couple hours!!! Rick gets all his political TV on Sundays, so I laid in bed and watched the Selena movie! I had seen in before, so I could doze off and on, and not be lost when I chose to watch again....besides the remote was waaaaaay across the headboard, and too much trouble to reach. Now I have the music stuck in my head!!! Which is fine, it is usually kids music!!! Rick is building a trailer....his friend is helping, so I am staying in the house, thinking maybe Rick will talk with him, but I am resenting the hell out of it! We usually do that stuff together. EVen if I just sit in a lawn chair and spend time with him. But not now. grrrrrrrrrrr. Everyone remember the time change without issue?? We called and reminded both sets of parents last night, so they would get to church at the right time! My Dad had forgotten, Mom said she remembered it earlier, but had let it slip her mind! So we saved them!!! Rick's Mom said she had it under control. We caught them last year, I think it was the fall back one--------she was all flustered, but adamantly REFUSED to admit it!! I just laughed to myself. Wonder if I will be that know it all and cranky at 80+. Y'all will probably quit inviting me to the reunions!!! LOL Anyone have any good ideas for dinner? I'd like to have something quick and easy.......if I felt like it, I'd make him take me out!!! How is that for EASY! I used to have a shirt that said "If it's true that you are what you eat, then I am Fast, Cheap, and Easy". Sad how true it was!!! Guess I will go get some things done....right or wrong!

That's what I told her on FB----I'd send the kids off, and enjoy nekkid Sunday!!! LOL

Well if it out of the country and a passport required I am not raising my hand yet....as I cannot get a passport still. I need to get that taken care of, but life has been so busy lately--I am good to remember the name I have now, let alone change it!! Judy, poor Kris......she would have been seriously injured, and possibly neither one of them would have lived, had she not had the option of the c section! Manda had no choice between her Dads side (in his female relatives) and mine, she is very well endowed. When you added that, plus engorgement, to a 4 pound baby, it did not work out! Kinsey was too small, her mouth would not latch on, without her nose being smushed! And if Manda tried to push back at all, she lost suction. So she pumped.....and give her a bottle---well the first week, they dripped in into by syringe!!! Then they gave up trying to avoid the bottle, and just pumped into the bottle. As with most babies, once she had the bottle figured out, she was not happy being forced to try the breast. So Manda pumped for her til she was 7 months old!!! Then Kinsey just tossed the bottle---and refused breast milk in a tippy cup. The pediatrician recommended trying a tiny drop of vanilla extract in a cup of breast milk or formula, and she finally took the formula with it, for a couple of months then ditched it too. There was NEVER an issue taking her bottle away, she threw it away.....the pacifier was a whole nother story!!!! LOL They forced a pacifier on her in the hospital due to her prematurity, and her lack of suck instinct. Plus they had just figured out they helped lower the SIDS risk---so she developed a strong bond with her Passy........I have pictures of her at about 16 months, with not one but 2 pacifiers in her mouth---because Mommy threatened to take one!!! LOL Doesn't really matter how he got here, she should feel proud, she grew him well, she must have been very good about her health while pregnant! Still feeling crummy. Had such congestion last night, it got my ear and jaw aching. Finally about 1 AM I popped a pain pill and crashed, feeling some better today as far as the ear. For years I had this neighbor he was old when I was young it seemed, and then when I bought the house, he was still there, and they were even older! But he was in the military, and every year his group (brigade, platoon...something) had a reunion. He and his wife always talked about them, and had so much fun. I see us doing the same......of course some of us might (just maybe) will seem older than others!!!! LOL So Rick and I are not really at odds, we are in a position, that makes neither of us happy. A couple of weeks ago, his friend ask if he could park his travel trailer in our back yard area (there is an RV storage). He is in the final stages of a divorce, and she got the contents he got the house. So he was needing a place to park the trailer til he could get into the house. Was supposed to just be 2 weeks. Well, I hear him talking during the day on his phone and it sounds to me as though he is not getting the house anytime soon. Meanwhile, he just happens to "show up" to talk to Rick when Rick gets off work--so of course is here for dinner.....more often than not, I would say 5 out of the last 7 times I cooked he was here. Day before yesterday he even ask for leftovers for lunch! Now he has been fired from where Rick works, but his severence pay runs through the end of April, so he is making what we are with the hour cuts! He is not without funds! He gets bored and wants to talk so he comes to the house. I don't want company all day everyday! He is not a bad guy, I just am done helping!! If things are not going to work out with him getting his house as planned, then he needs to find a park to put his trailer in---it is a really nice little trailer, there are just not many spaces available because so many have travelled into the area to work the gas field, as the oil has slowed. So anyway, yesterday, he comes in and does laundry ALL day. Sunday when Rick was home, he ask if he could shower before church. Rick said ok, because he thought it would be fine since he was home, but now the guy comes every morning, knocking on the back door, and if I don't respond he comes around and rings the doorbell, so he can shower. So I told Rick, ENOUGH! Now he is deciding how to best handle the situation, without it seeming like he is kicking someone when he is down. I mean his being kind and helpful is one of the things I fell in love with about him, but now we know we are being taken advantage of, and it has to stop. So....he is on days off starting tomorrow, so by Monday I am hoping he is GONE! Time to find food!!! See y'all in awhile. Oh see if your spell check accepts it with the ' in the y'all spot--contracting you all as opposed to ya all. Maybe it is the ya it is kicking out!!! Kat

Nope snt------not wrong......read what you posted about my DD-----seems to have worked for you too!!! They do say the best revenge is a life well lived!!!!!

They are apparantly in the middle of a server change for LBT....so hope it will go smooth. Sucky thing about a free site----not much of a way to complain now is there!!! LOL Ebony that was a wonderful story---glad you have such a great DD. Years ago I would drop my DD off at the high school on my way to the Day Care. One morning, right in front of us, the Resource officer of the school was a motorcycle cop, and he swerved to avoid a kid who swung a door open, and laid his bike down. There were no less than 75 kids wandering in and around the area, but my DD and one other girl were the only ones to rush over to him, to check on him, and even attempt to help him pick the bike back up. 2 years later, when she got stopped for a headlight being out, he recognized her, and thanked her again, and only warned her about her light. She still sees him around town, and they always wave! He is now a leutinant with the force....and she graduated 10 years ago!!! Always makes you feel good when you realize they really DID listen, and pay attention!!!!

Sorry your day is crappy Laura. Haydee---the place looks horrid, and it is a miserable 86 degrees there right now, so to show you what a good friend I am.....I'll go in your place.....it's fine! You're welcome!! No problem!! WOW----it is a gorgeous resort-have a wonderful time Haydee!!! I bought Kenny Chesney tickets for DH & I and a couple of friends a few weeks back, the concert is the 23rd I think. Also bought Dave Matthews Band for DD and I on the 5th of May. Tried to buy Nickelback tickets for Rick and I but theyare not on sale yet......probably just as well!!! Personally not a huge Reba fan, we saw her in concert not long after her band was killed and I can't remember if it was the OK bombing or what had just happened, (I have slept since then). But they did a minute of silence-and they were laughing and cracking up on stage. Sorta left me with a bad taste. Rick has told me a bajillion times, there was something else going on they were laughing about....and I know that, but it still got me. Went and bought groceries today----used the coupons I clipped, and shopped the sales. My total come to $148. something, and I saved $112. something! I told Rick I was taking that $112. and putting it in the 2nd bank account to save for my Alabama trip, he said whatever like I had grown a second head. But they laid off 15 people yesterday, and they were not new hires, they were long time employees! So we continue to hold our breath. Judy, that first night home, is so stressful, and the poor babe--EVERYTHING is so new and wierd to him. All he knew was warm safe and surrounded by water, now the temp is always changing, and he has clothes on, and nothing is right!!! Give them all my best, they will settle in....it is pretty normal!!! Pamela--sorry your sweetie is sick. Now you have to have a get well birthday party too!!! I feel her pain, everytime I think this is getting better or going away it smacks me down again. Today my fever and pounding head are back. grrrrrrr. I am ready for Alabama too. Tracy-----is Macy still in love with her new school and house? Is she keeping up ok in school? I know you were worried. Terry-thanks for the email you are such a sweetie! Jane.....I wanna do some change with my hair....thinking some really drastic highlights--both in an auburn and a blonde....know what I mean? Do you have an opinion? And on't just say what you think I wanna hear------!!LOL Jenn, Jenn, Jenn----------gotta hear the story! What are we gonna do with you? Might have to lock you and Kev in a room and see who walks out again!!! J/K Silly girl! Suzanne--slow down enjoy your afternoon off! Michelle, have fun at the book fair!! Heather-I agree with Terry, plan a carry out dinner of some sort, and do a quick swipe clean and enjoy your company. Straighten rugs, wipe down counters, clean the bathroom mirror and sink------and let the rest go!!! LOL TracyKS--hope you are having a great time!!! Denise--how's things going? Better I hope! ((hugs)) I know I likely missed someone or 2---it is not intentional....I am headed in to lay down. I rec'd terrible news from a friend here at LBT, and it has thrown me for a loop....will check in later. XOXOXO Kat

I have a lot of mixed feelings about her selling her story and pics of the kids etc. First of all, it would be about the only way she could support a family of this size on her own. Thus keeping her off the welfare rolls. And if done in a tasteful manner, from the beginning, it could have worked for her possibly. But since she come off so flaky from the beginning, she is now reduced to tabloid forms of shows and magazines. There will be the occasional show of value, as well as articles, but the time for a tasteful sharing of her experience is past. We have spoke of many families who have done it--like the Jon & Kate plus 8 show, the ones with 18 kids, I forget their name.....all done tastefully considering that the adults made the decision for the kids to do this. And as for the J&K bunch, they readily admit it was a financial decision. They did not go into it with the negativity that this woman has brought upon herself. There is a yearly show of the Dilley kids----not sure how many there are, and Diane --man I am losing names today!!! From the Good Morning America or Today one, goes to see them each year on their birthday. They did family specials. As did the McCaughey family when their 7 kids were first born. ALL of them except the Dugars (see there is the name!!) went into the sudden large family with no more than 2 other children. And they went into it as married couples wanting a family--not a single woman with 6 already. No one likes greed. She exhibits greed every time they interview her. Who cares if she wanted one more or 8 more----she was not properly caring for the ones she had, and that set her up for a poor acceptance at having a show as the others have. Yes if she gets it people will tune in, same as they do for Nanny 911---------or Jerry Springer-----as has been said it is a train wreck, and you are impelled to look! Another part of me says at least if she has some sort of following, be it on TV or what, then she will be being monitored. Becuase really Radar would just as soon turn on her and villianize her for ratings if they caught her doing something that grabbed ratings!! It would be a monitoring system of some sort. Which is desperately needed!

Yep Jane, I used to go and order a Route 44 cup of ice every single day from the Sonic, before my cancer and following hysterectomy--and I was ALWAYS anemic. I always wondered how a woman as fat as I was could be lacking in anything!!! Had the hysterectomy---and never have had the urge to crunch ice again!! Rick can tell you what it is called---something like Pica---it is not just you!!! LOL Had a nice lunch, my friend is handling things really well--------I was so impressed. She is not hiding from the truth, but facing it head on, and keeping herself together through it all. I have Rick's friend coming for dinner tonight, and I had just put on a pot of potato Soup, because that is what Rick ask for, he thought it sounded good for his throat. So now I have to do something else as well...grrrrr!!! Will check with y'all in awhile!

I do not have any doubt whatsoever that she was distraught over her son missing. Nor am I surprised at her joy upon seeing him safe. I had a neighbor when my DD was small, and her son come to my house to see the baby--I ask if his Mom knew, and he calmly told me "yeah she watched me cross the street" so I let him stay. Before long, cops were knocking on my door to see if I had seen Chad! His Mom and I both wanted to hug and strangle the child. Her biggest upset following it was that they ask her what he was wearing, and she could not answer the question. She knew pretty much what the girls were wearing, because she did their hair, and tried to match, but she said she could not tell them what he was wearing, besides jeans. She had 6 kids. He was missing for less than an hour, and she had a teenager, and a pre teen to help her watch --- and no one saw Chad cross the street. From that day forward, I always made a mental note what my kids were wearing. And each year when the library did the fingerprint/picture documentation, I took the kids. I realize they can and do slip away from sight sometimes, but everyone should agree that the more you have the harder it is to keep track of each of them, as well as how each one is dressed....how tall, how much they weigh, etc. For these kids to have been outside for an hour with no supervision is reprehensible. Unlike Patty's kids, these are ALL young kids, there are no older ones to watch over. The dynamics of this family just boggles my mind. It is hard and very frustrating sometimes with one infant at a time, especially if they are colicky or not feeling well. You walk, you rock, you bounce, you sway...you try the swing, you try the bouncer, you sing, you cry along with them.....you try ANYTHING! Now if you are doing this with one infant what is happening to the other 7? If your newborn baby was THAT upset or apparantly hurting, could YOU allow the neighbor to try to comfort the baby? I couldn't. The odds of her having more than one doing this at a time are immense. The preemies resistance to infection is compromised--that is a well proven, medically documented fact. They are going to have not one or 2 older siblings bringing in germs from school----but 6-------to 8 highly suseptible infants and eventually toddlers. Today my granddaughter is at the dentist. She has went to the dentist with my DD and I from birth. She was probably 9 months old the first time he sat her on my lap and looked in her mouth. By the time she was 18 months she sat still for an exam, and cleaning, and does so every 6 months now. When is this Mom going to have time to schedule 14 kids to see a dentist regularly? And I would be willing to guess who pays for them to be seen. Hopefully one parent will eventually have some sort of insurance. These seem like silly questions in the overall view of things, but this is daily life with a child....or at least should be. These are the things that boggle my mind. To listen to her talk and smile serenely, it comes across like she thinks these 8 babies will room in the big master bedroom with her, and they will lay quietly in their beds each day until someone comes along to deal with them, and she can sit in the middle of a big, messy, cluttered room, and fend off older kids, in the name of playing with them, and spending time with them. I agree that the clip yesterday was likely the autistic child. OK.....but is he going away when the 8 come home? If not, then he is a danger, and steps need to be taken to protect them all. Him included. Personally, from the years spent in a Day Care setting, it is pretty easy after a while to tell which parents are involved with their kids in their off time and which are not. Some kids begin babbling the second a parent shows up, and the parent listens---not visiting with me, or who ever else was in the room....they were happy to see and hear their child. Others shushed the child, and visited....and you could see from the child, they were used to it. That is how the clips of this woman strike me, and this is simply my own personal take on the situation. You may all disagree, and that is your right, but how I view it, is my opinion. These kids are wild because Mom being there in the middle of them is a rarity. As much of a rarity as the cameras. They don't listen to her, because she is not who they are used to listening to. I would like to see how the kids behave in a similar interview with Mom not around, but Grandma in the chair. I would bet my socks, that they behave much better---she is who they are used to listening to. How do I KNOW this? I don't....it is just how I see things--my opinion....nothing more.

Still feeling crummy. Kinsey and Manda are are at the dentist, then she is dropping Kinsey off with Nana and she is going back to work. I am having lunch with my friend Marie, she is having some SERIOUS family crap go on, and she just filed for legal custody of her grandkids, so she needs an ear and a shoulder, even if the rest of me is sniffly. Poor thing. It seems like my whole group of close friends is having some sort of crisis with kids/grandkids. Becky just found out that her grandson, is technically not her grandson, another man fathered him, not Becky's son. They all say that is in the past, and he is theirs, and the fight has just begun. They love him--it is just a scary prospect, that should she decide to leave or something, they have no rights. With my son and his wife split, she is talking about moving to Tuscon. So who knows when we would see Connor or the baby due in August. If her Mom has anything to do with it, it would be never. Another friend who has helped her son to raise his son who is 5 called in tears, the boys Mom who has not seen him in over 4 years appeared on her doorstep with a Sherrif, and took the boy. You think the problems and worries go away when your kids get grown, but they just move on to the grandkids, and are one more step removed, we have even less control. Judy I am so glad that through it all you got to be the constant in Ethans life, that is so important. I bet he is surprised by how little the new cousin is-even though adults (especially women!!!) are shocked by his birth size! My little nephew was feeling very left out when the youngest nephew was brought home. So I give him a little Pez candy dispenser, and he was all bowed up and told me he wasn't sharing with 'Brandon Baby'!I told him that was fine, that 'Brandon Baby' didn't have any teeth to eat candy with. His eyes got huge....and he says NO TEETH? I told him nope, and he couldn't walk, so his candy was safe. Something about him being unable to walk or not having teeth, calmed him, and he decided he better help protect the baby!! Was hilarious his look when he heard that the baby had no teeth!! I do not have a donut issue! That was the worst PB of my life, and it has definitely colored the way I look at donuts!!! Y'all can have mine. Judy how goes the exercise with being in the hospital--------you can use the stairs in the daytime, that is what I did! Well I am off to answer some email, and get dressed. Will check in later today...hugs!

That is one of the good things about having the ability to do your research and make a decision that you are comfortable with. Everyone has different criteria they feel is important, and with information as available as it is these days, we can all make informed decisions. I do find it sad that the country's (MX) problems could very well limit peoples decisions on surgeons. Eliminating some very qualified doctors. There are many countries I would readily travel to at this time....IF I could!!! LOL

I think it is really scary to be thinking of travelling into Mexico at this time. I was banded in Mexico, in Mexicali, and while I loved my Dr. this is one time I am totally glad he insisted on having local care as well! My nephew who is a senior also had email go home to parents that the school would in no way sponsor a senior trip into Mexico and in fact was advising against it. Then they listed crime rates and how quickly they have rose recently, and mentioned the murders in TJ. I have no issues whatsoever with my Mexican surgeon, or how I have done with my surgery----but getting me to travel there right now, would be about as likely as me taking a vacation to Iraq. I feel for those facing surgery in this time of disruption there. Now that being said.....when I was banded almost 3 years ago, I was walking the halls the day after the surgery, and all of a sudden there were Policia everywhere! A nurse ask me to go back to my room. I guess a high ranking Mexican official, had been shot! In an attempted assassination! They had him taken directly to surgery, he survived, and within a little while I was out walking the halls again. It made me feel relief at the fact they brought him there, and that it was handled efficiently. That was in April (like the 25th) of 2006, if anyone needs to check my story! I would be too scared to go now. And true story or not, it is something that everyone needs to consider. Heck some US hospitals are in some really seedy areas of town, not places I would walk alone!!! Hope all goes well for the OP. Kat

I too hope the bill passes. I believe the point of regulation is going to have to lie with the Dr.'s. I mean the differences between Dr.'s and what they require seems to be even more vastly different than what we read on here regarding band Dr.'s. Seriously, Lu's Dr. required their driving record....as well as the things I would have expected to be legally required, such as a psych exam, and an ability to show that you can provide for a child this Dr. is going to try to help you get. Where as Octo's Dr. obviously did not require anything except your ability to pay him. While I do understand that more laws are not something we really want, this seems to be something that is going to have to be regulated. Also what methods can be used. I read or heard him saying he uses a special method for implanting...which has brought better results. Is the method safe or is it part of what brought on the 8 as opposed to 1-2 kids? Yep something needs done. Before every welfare Mom out there, decides they too want to be on TV!!! The CNN video is just sad and depressing. She is a grown woman having issues fighting the child off, a newborn will not have a chance. And I feel I am an average person....if this woman was in my town, and I volunteered to help, and was busy fighting off a toddler who was hitting, biting and pulling my hair, I am not sure I would go back. Witnessing the harm come to those babies would be terrible! She has no parenting ability. The time to teach him "gentle" was when he was an infant himself! But she had no time to teach him, she was off working to get the money to be implanted again. Which is the same story with all of the kids, they never have been #1. That is incredibly sad. When he hit the first time, she should have calmly ask the camera man for a minute to take care of her son. She should have turned his face to hers so they were eye to eye and told him NO! in no uncertain terms, and put him in a time out, even if that time out had to be physically enforced by a bear hug....if he cannot control himself, she needs to control him. Because a room full of infants cannot defend themselves. And as for the Radar guy---------a birthday party full of 5 year olds, yes would be loud....but things breaking????? Where are the adults??? My kids were normal---they fought, things got broke on occasion, but they were NOT allowed to smack me, or one another without consequences! They did not get turned loose upstairs to play like they were at a birthday party and yell and break things. GIMME A BREAK!! I would like to see her be reasonable, and accept some classes on parenting, and plan to allow for help, even if that means letting the babies be raised outside the home. She speaks of help, but does not say where it will come from. PattyGreen, has said she would help, and I am sure there are many like her who would....but she seems to shun the offered help like she is waiting for bigger better terms. I hope for the sake of those 8 newborns, and the existing 6 who for all intents and purposes are still babies too----that there are lots of Pattygreens out there who when she finishes primping for the camera are there to help those kids. They deserve a warm hug and a lap to be rocked on....all 14 of them, even the little wild child who was smacking her around!!! Kat

Please note.....I changed your name!!! LOL Mindy to Mindsy!!!! Sometimes I have dyslexia of my fingers....wonder if I could get $$$ for that affliction???? Kat

Mindsy, I thought seriously about taking my questions to Patty to a PM, but it was not an attack, it was legitimate questions regarding why she believes someone that the majority of us have trouble believing. She brought up points I wanted to discuss that were pertinent to this thread. We went back and forth, but did no name calling!!! I try not to get into the debate side of things too much with my being a moderator---but thought these were legitimate questions and discussions. If not, I apologize to everyone here, Patty in particular. Kat

I agree, Grady is a keeper!!! What a cutie. I know birth size has little to do with eventual size, I mean, I was a small baby!! LOL But my Dad who was a 10 pounder as well, grew to be 6'5"--------and Nathan is tall as well, so looks like Grady may well follow suit. On the other hand Kinsey was itsy bitsy! She is now slowly catching up. She was under 5 pounds at birth, and by age 2 had only made it to 17 pounds! But she is back on the charts height wise! She never made the charts in anything but head size for years!!! LOL Now she is on in height. The old double the height at 2 shows her to be 5'4" fully grown, which give or take an inch or 2 will be fine! Her Paternal grandma wears heals to make 4'11"! My family is all tall, so it was a toss, and looks like she will fall in the middle!! I bet Grady gets some height to him tho..... I showed Kinsey his pictures, and she said she is going to ask her Mommy to get them a baby!!! Manda is so gonna love me!!! I have not felt this crummy in a long time. I was sick yesterday and spent most of the day rebuilding fence on the hill---trying to keep kids out, and eliminating some flamables---logs we used for seats when pitching horseshoes, dried leaves. The backs of my thighs are so sore from bending it is unreal! IT looks good up there, I am calling the resource officer to come see the change so if I have to call him for damages, he will see what has been changed. I am also taking pictures this afternoon, of all angles with my new signs posted. So if and when they catch these kids doing things, I have evidence. I plan to ask them to remove the trees they killed, and replace them, in exchange I would not press formal charges---and their record would remain clean, if they refuse, I will tell them to go for it! Tracy, Rick said if you put your foot on the brake and revved it up, and it did not clank, then he would look elsewhere before focusing on the crank shaft. He said it may just be beginning, and it could be that or a rod sticking, and only be happening intermittently. I know that doesn't help! Sorry! So much for diagnosing over the computer!!! I am trying to do laundry today, but carrying the baskets of clothes is almost more than I can do today---what a wimp I am. My head feels like a big ol bass drum, tight and big. The rest of me just hurts...and it migrates, from a finger hurting, to my hair follicles hurting to an elbow--but hey it is always something new to complain about!!! I'll check in later......once again Judy, congrats, I am so glad he is here safe and sound. Please let Kris know we think he is just perfect, and she did not fail, she just grew him EXTRA good!!! Enjoy your grandsonS today!!! Kat

She was asked if she was getting welfare, Not if she was getting assistance. SOME people consider welfare a cash check from the state. She did, and so did my daughter once. So, that's why she answered that question NO. I clipped this directly from your post as opposed to quoting the entire thing for the sake of space. But this comment for instance is what I am asking you about. You STATE that IS why she answered no. You STATE it as fact. I could just as well STATE she was lying, all the while knowing the fact that food stamps and SSDI is assistance. We are neither one her---we are adding our opinions. Yet you see ours as bashing, and yours as gospel truths. When I or anyone else says that we think she did something for a certain reason, you ask how we know what she would think or say or do, or tell us how it can be done because you did it, blah, blah, blah. You TELL us how she feels like you and she are one and the same. Yet none of us knows how she feels at all. We get different views everytime she opens her mouth, and gives an interview. I will admit, I seldom see them on TV, I have caught a few, but most of them I get through the links here. I am finished discussing this with you, as I feel you are totally out of touch with any of this discussion. I did not have 14 children, I did not have 10 children, I had 3. I read to each of them, and yes I even read to them all in one bed. But seriously Patty------this woman cannot keep a child on her lap to look pretty for the camera, none of them seem well enough behaved to lay in a bed and listen to the story, let alone a bed with 14 tired children in it. It is not realistic. My kids were each a year apart, when we blended families, and there were many times that put them too close together age wise. Sports, dance class etc. I run around like a chicken with my head cut off, because it all took place at once. That was 3 kids. Yes we blended a family. I brought one daughter into it, he brought a son and a daughter. I was thrilled, I wanted more kids. But a divorce from my daughters father, put an end to that thought right then. I was single, and totally responsible for her upbringing. She was raised financially by me, and emotionally by me. I did not ignore her while trying to grow my family. Yes she spent time with her grandparents and with friends. I was not the only one to ever change her diapers. BUT she knew then, and knows now, if she wanted her Mom, I was there--I still do not believe octoMom will be able to pull that off. Partly due to the sheer size of her brood, but also the personality she seems to me to have when interviewed. She might be there.....or she might be off at the fertility clinic again, or granting an interview....while ignoring her kids, and overburdening her parents and society. And finally act innocent of your comments if you must, but you were responding to me, and stated it was not my place to address the issues. This is just one of the several times you did this. Which is fine, as I did originally ask my questions of YOU. Like I said I did so because you seem to feel akin to this woman, altho for the life of me I still fail to see the connection. __________________________________________ And as for the breakfast.....y'all got ripped off!!! Only 8 eggs? You should have gotten at least 14!!!! I too wonder about the father/donor in this situation. OctoMom cannot keep her story straight for the interviews, and that alone makes me wonder what stories she used on him. I am not trying to make him innocent in this, but I would like to hear more from him. I wonder if he comes from a family that could help with the kids. Kat

Laura, when Kinsey was born they used Cervagel (don't trust my spelling of it!) it was inserted, and was used to ripen the cervix. Then the pitocin drip. And Kinsey was a vaginal birth. I think with Grady's size, a c section was a wise move! I look back---my Dad was 10 pounds 10 ounces when he was 3 days old---weighed on the butchers scale, same as all babies in the area! He was my Grandma's first baby, and he was born at home! Can you seriously imagine!!!??? Look forward to hearing the story from Judy---if we ever get her back. I know how hard it is to drag yourself away!! LOL See y'all tomorrow. Gotta go fight it out on another thread, then head to bed!! Kat

LOL, it is hard to even know where to begin with you. First of all I will thank you NOT to tell ME what my place is, I have never done that to you, I ask you how you felt about her half truth responses, and what makes you feel she is being honest now basically, and you passed over that. If she or your daughter or the president for that matter does not consider food stamps being assistance, then they are sorely mistaken-----they are being given something for nothing. When I put thoughts or actions onto this woman---it is MY opinion, yet you go on telling me why she did this or why she didn't have to do that, and that is IT, but no Patty, that is simply YOUR opinion. It is no more right or no more of a sure thing than mine. I watched them show her pictures of her infants and she did NOT know them. She laughed, and said over and over that was this or that one.....and they all have the same face. Mothers of identical twins don't even see their children as having the same face. My point in that being, that yes, they are small and similar, she simply does not have enough time to spend with each of these babies, to learn to tell them apart. I was not dogging her for it, just saying no matter what, there is only 24 hours in a day, and when you divide that between 14 children----all under 8 years of age, and try to sleep, and do ANYTHING else, then your time with each of those children is very limited. Contrary to what you believe, I have grown up with an awesome church family. A very real, small town church family---in a church that I was raised in from infancy. And here is how it works-------not just in my own church either, it is a subject we have discussed in other aspects (in particular, bringing food for funerals)....There is usually a very strong core of members who "do" for the church, and most of them are women, who are for the most part older. They are the ones who as we had discussed, take in meals, and provide rides for people to Dr.'s etc., help care for young and old when the needs arise. It does not mean that others in the church do not care, they simply have less time. So do we expect this church family to be around for years doing this for her? At 2 life is not going to be easier with 8 2 year olds. At least as infants--when you put them down in spot A-----they will still be there when you go back to spot A. Not so with toddlers. I too ran a day care, I am not flustered by children, but even in licensed day care situations, that is too many infants to be in one persons care! No it is no skin off my nose if those kids get put to bed by a different person every night, and fed lunch by a different face every day. Or if the same person never changes their diaper twice. Will it affect me? No but I am not an idiot, I KNOW it will affect the child. You comparing your family to hers is no more similar than me comparing mine. None of us had 14 children under the age of 8. Has anyone here? Does anyone you know personally? Not me. So I simply look at it realistically......X amount of things to be done in X amount of time, and it just does not work. Someone or something gets short changed. In MY OPINION watching how her first 6 children act shows exactly who was short changed. And no I do not find it presumptuous of myself (and many others here) to feel that she cares more for her looks and her fame than her children. Watch the interviews. She is dressed nice, and has a recent manicure (which has already been discussed in relation to these preemies)---but her childrens hair often looks totally unbrushed. Yes it is a TV show, and they may not always be that way. But if my child was going to be on TV, we would discuss their actions, and they would be dressed and clean. I can imagine that would be hard with 6 kids as young as these are, with twins, and one with autism. So I can sympathize with that being difficult....then I think OMG she still has 8 more to bring home, and they are all the same age and have multiple issues facing them. Like it or not....I am free to state my opinion. I am not attacking you, you were the voice of dissent, and seem to come to this womans rescue at every turn. Which is why I ask you the questions. In the process of that, yes I do have an extremely low opinion of her. I have never said anything about you. Please give me the same respect. Kat

Laura just called and let me know it was a boy too!!! She said Grady weighed in at 10 pounds and was 22" Long, so a C section was necessary. She said Judy said all was well!!! Congrats to all us new Aunties, and especially to the new Grammy and family. Enjoy the not so little guy!! Hugs! Kat

Patty, don't you remember her going on national TV claiming not to be receiving public assitance? Now she talks about wanting to be off of it, and not be a burden. She was lying then, which is obvious now---that it was brought to light, by someone other than her. Why do we believe her now? She was offered a safe home and helpful environment for her and her children, and refused it. Solely on the basis, that they did not want her exploiting the children. What would you say her priority is? Did you watch the video----of her child smacking her? What is going to happen when the same out of control child smacks a newborn? They are not going to smile serenely. She has no control over the children she has now. She has no time for the children she has now. I said back in the first few pages, she was receiveing disability on a speech delayed child. I said then, I have a grandson who is speech delayed----his help? His family TALKING to him.....not talking to a camera while literally fighting off children. Not taking money from the government, and paying a speech therapist to do what a Mom could do most of the time. If she has no time to spend talking and working with the speech delayed child now, what is going to happen when you add the new 8 babies....and are on guard 24/7 because they are not safe around the older 6 kids! My DIL is pregnant, due in August, and is also the parent of my 3 year old (today is his birthday) grandson that is speech delayed. He is also VERY wild. She is home with him all the time, and is concerned with how he will react to the new baby. I think she is rightly concerned. I cannot imagine that multiplied the way this woman is facing it. She alone will not be able to do this. So these kids are not going to know who is in charge. There is going to be a group from this church in on Tue. & Thur. and from somewhere else on Sat. & Mon.....you get the idea. None of these kids will develop attachments, they will not have any continuity in their lives. Yes the deed is done. Us bashing her is not getting anything accomplished. So what? It eases the anger we feel at the helplessness we have in helping the innocent kids. It eases the anger we have at a VERY selfish and immature woman, who obviously cares more for herself, her looks, and her future fame, that she does for all the kids she has brought into life. I know you support her because she brought them into life as opposed to destroying the embryos, or aborting---and that is fine by me, you have your right to support her in those actions. Many, many families, want a baby...A baby--not a litter, who those embryos could have been donated to. I have a friend that her niece had to have a massive surgery, including removal of her ovaries, when she was a child due to a ruptured appendix that caused massive infection----she has 2 kids----both through donated eggs. This woman had other options, that she chose not to use. She knew then she did not need more children, with 3 on disability, she surely already had her hands full. She was already on assisstance, and living with the help of a family home....another pregnancy was ludicrous! It was in itself sinful to my way of thinking....and apparantly many others feel the same. I hope that someone, be it you or someone else, DOES help her. I hope there are enough someones to keep those babies safe. I can picture an out of control 3 year old bashing a baby in the head with a metal car toy---who do you get mad at, hold responsible? The 3 year old who was never taught better? Or the parent that never taught the child when they were 1 or 2? I know who I am going to blame. But will that do the injured infant any good, or the 3 year old who grows up to learn they are responsible for having maimed their sibling? This goes beyond what is right or wrong in your religious belief, this is an unsafe environment for 14 kids, regardless who is there to help this week. Do you really think the church women are still going to be going in 2-4 days a week in 15 years? She is still going to be needing help then.....especially when we do not know she will not have more. And yes he has a home with 4 bedrooms. I am sure she will take one for herself. That leaves 14 kids to divide up among 3 bedrooms. They are young, I see no issue with it now. Give it a few years----the home is not going to be big enough. The one she has now is filthy! Will she do better when she has that many more kids to deal with? Laundry alone will be a full time job. Cooking and feeding that many young children, another full time job. Where is school and a job going to work for this woman. She cannot even tell her own children apart----how can she learn them? There simply is not enough time in each day. These are the issues I would like to see addressed. Not glossed over like she tends to do.

The 3rd is a wonderful day to be born--this is Connors 3rd birthday----he is 3 on the 3rd, isn't that supposed to be special in the Asian culture?? Your age and birthdate matching I mean??? He was born 3/3/06-----so I remember it easy 3+3=06!! Grady/Madison will be 3X3+09!! Still sick as a dog---------need to feed Kinsey, so will be back later. Hugs all---------will keep you as posted as I can as far as me in Alabama--I want to more that I can convey, but without a job.......so fingers are crossed for the job to hang in there!! BBL~~ Kat