BethFromVA

I apologize. I thought you were insulting your own intelligence by acting as if this is the first time this has ever happened. No doubt both sides are using it now. I was just showing this is nothing new. Especially from the left.

You have proven yourself incapable of carrying on a dialogue with somebody who doesn't walk in lock step with your fascist views without getting a bad case of the vapors, so you'll understand if I choose instead to loan you a pair of my big girl panties and tell you to move along. I'd rather carry on with your friends who, though we disagree, can actually communicate. Besides, you surprisingly "bore" when you're not getting your way. Wouldn't want to see you get yourself banned again over lil ol' me. :cool2:

May as well. MANY a black church is preaching liberal politics and endorsing liberal candidates from the pulpit, which goes against their 501c3 status.

WOO HOO! COWBOYS! :cool2: *ducks and runs*

No, actually I don't think that Americans are so much brighter than the rest of the world. However, we are still on this side of freer than most of them are. So compared to what many countries have as their societal system, they just may consider Obama a republican. I guess I could ask how in God's name you know that most outside of America consider Obama a republican. I have seen pictures of Arabs and other middle easterners carrying signs saying they are for Obama. Saw one in fact that says Palestinians for Obama. And I am sure the terrorists DO want us out of Iraq. It's harder to keep up with their terrorist activities if we're there.

Try and keep up. I was posting the history, showing that it's nothing new, and it certainly isn't performed only by the right. No, but Barack's OWN WORDS about spreading the wealth IS socialism. Talk about the Kool-Aid drinkers! Omg, y'all really can pick and choose what you want to hear. What a talent. :cool2:

I don't mean this as derogatory to you but instead as a well-used sentiment: If you haven't heard what I've mentioned, then you must live under a rock. I have heard this stuff for YEARS. I even knew which words to Google just so I could find them. I guess it's less about being in the eye of the beholder as it is being able to cherry pick what one hears. Again, you can Google it as I did. Here it is from USAToday, in 2004 (though others ran the story, but I figured if they weren't left-leaning enough, you would cry foul): Kerry raises possibility that draft could return if Bush re-elected WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, citing the war in Iraq and other trouble spots in the world, raised the possibility Wednesday that a military draft could be reinstated if voters re-elect President Bush. Kerry said he would not bring back the draft and questioned how fairly it was administered in the past. Answering a question about the draft that had been posed at a forum with voters, Kerry said: "If George Bush were to be re-elected, given the way he has gone about this war and given his avoidance of responsibility in North Korea and Iran and other places, is it possible? I can't tell you." Had Clinton not decimiated our military by 1/3, Bush (or any president to follow Clinton) wouldn't have had to do such a thing. Personally I couldn't care less if he's a one-eyed, one-armed, flying purple people eater. He IS a SOCIALIST, and for me, that's all that matters.

It's the victimology of America, Ceradad. If I can be labeled a victim (or if the government can do it for me), maybe I can get me some goodies. :cool2: We have become a country of whiners and complainers, of PC wussies, of greedy losers with their hands out, of people who wouldn't know a hard days' work if it bit them, of people with no shame and no pride, of people who will come out in droves to save a rare mosquito or hug a tree but would never do the same for a person, of people who can't raise decent human beings to save their life, and people who have no idea how responsible they are for their own problems. All I can say is I am glad my grandfathers who fought and died for this country aren't here to see this.

I personally couldn't care less if he's an Arab. What I DO know is that he is a socialist, which is reason enough to make sure he never sees the light of day in the White House. HOWEVER, I can see some people's concern: He has issues with certain tokens of patriotism. Add to that if he's an Arab or even remotely a terrorist sympathizer, that could certainly mean something of substance.

Something tells me you could view a videotape of Obama admitting it and you wouldn't believe it. :cool2:

You mean like the fear politics like the libs have perfected over the years? You sound as if only the right uses them. Here's some not-so-oldies but goodies: "Don't vote for Bush, he'll bring back the draft. Do you want to get killed in Iraq? This affects you, make it your issue!" "If you think that rape should be legal, then don't vote. (To) fight off that danger of losing that, then you should vote!" "Bush legalized assault weapons, so crime is going to spiral out of control." "Bush is a Texas cowboy!" Kerry is following the familiar Democratic ploy of flogging the Social Security issue, hyperbolically implying that Bush's ill-defined plans for individual investment accounts will cost current retirees their benefits. GLOOMILY aware that Al Gore is not setting the campaign trail on fire, Democrats are already invoking the specter of George W. Bush stocking the U.S. Supreme Court with right-wing fanatics. Take People For the American Way, a liberal pressure group. Last month, a report from this outfit quavered that the court is ``just one or two new justices away from curtailing or abolishing fundamental rights that millions of Americans take for granted.'' (Roe v. Wade, back-alley abortions) Can you say "global warming"?? :cool2: Remember during one of the Bush elections the left claimed that a vote for Bush would all but guarantee your elderly parents and grandparents would be forced to eat dog food because they wouldn't be able to afford food and meds? And the most fantastic thing the left has THIS election is the true oldie but goodie: The race card. If you don't vote for Obama, it's because you're a racist. :biggrin: I mean, really, it is used constantly by all. :biggrin:

Exactly, with the operative word there being "giver," not having it wrested away and stolen from us.

BINGO! What I notice in an argument such as this is the hypocrisy and double standard. If we were talking about the government forcing one religion on people, there would be an uprising like nobody has ever seen. However, this same group who would be the loudest screamers if it was an issue of religion are essentially telling us that not only should we feel honored to pay taxes (and HIGHER taxes at that), that somehow there is something wrong with us if we aren't even happy about paying more than our fair share. I say if they enjoy paying more, go right ahead and cut the government a big, fat check. Those of us who don't agree with you can "selfishly" keep our money. Problem solved. :cool2:

I don't doubt that to the rest of the world Obama is a republican. The rest of the world doesn't have a clue. Does it bother you, by the way, that terrorists are rooting for Obama? Why do you think that is?

To steal from one who has to give to another who has not is a form of class envy. To true conservatives, he IS a liberal. I don't expect you to get that. Where's the joke? The messiah is the one this is about, not Joe. "Joe" just represents the average person who does not want Obama's socialism. Obama's own words created Joe, nothing else. Had Obama not been caught without a teleprompter in front of him, his true side may have been hidden. "Joe" just happened to be the one heil Hussein told it to.

I don't use hyphen-American anything. They're black or white (if I need to describe one's ethnicity for some reason). I absolutely refuse to do the hyphen thing. Makes it real simple. :rolleyes2:

Understood, and appreciated. However, part of what I said was taken out of context. I used her own words here, in black, with mine following in red: It is pathetically absurd. And incredibly stupid. Yes, that you see nothing wrong with that is pathetically absurd and incredibly stupid. I have worked very hard not to sling the name-calling like has been done towards myself for simply coming in here as an evil conservative and voicing my opinion. I see how the opposition is treated by some, and it's vulgar. I simply won't be bullied into backing down.

I almost missed this. Thanks! I've come to realize that this "progressive" crowd is rather regressive. One could get whiplash beating their own head against the wall with this crowd! Thick as bricks. lol

'Course it doesn't -- to you. I don't speak liberal. :rolleyes2: Truth, yes, I know. It's a hard word for liberals, but it is what it is. That quackin' Mr. Thang out there is most certainly a duck. Yes, we get punished with socialism. Because it IS. This is beyond "fairness." This is punishment for class warfare. When do we ever get LESS taxes?? I know, the leftist playbook doesn't have such a bird, but it's a truly novel idea. What about fiscal responsibility? What about not loading a bogus "rescue package" with more pork than you can shake a stick at? What about ALL people paying taxes and not just some? Yes, and that is when companies and PEOPLE are not ruled and taxed, cradle to grave, by the government. When companies are not nit-picked out of business. When wages are dictated by the necessity of the job and not by the government. When things are allowed to thrive via natural means and not by government interference and taxation at every turn. When people are forced to be responsible for themselves and don't have daddy gubment there to constantly clean up stupid messes. We don't have a great America any longer. Those days are gone. And I DO pay for that. I also pay to house, teach, imprison, and feed illegals. I pay for illegitimate kids all over the place. I pay for life-long pensions for representatives who might only work one term -- and when they die, their spouses get it. I pay for weapons to be shipped over to hostile countries who then use them against us. I pay for a failing public school system where Johnny can't read, but he can put a condom on a banana by the first grade. Problem is, he can't put it where it should go, and then I pay later on for all his crotch fruit. I pay into a totally socialist program like SSI where the money is stolen by the government and used to pay for other things, and the pisser of it all is I'll never see a dime of it. Yet they won't let ME invest that same money as I see fit because Lord knows I'll do a better job of it! I pay for stupid programs that study how fast ketchup pours out of the bottle, the mating habits of the speckled bottle-nosed dwarf beetle, and a gazillion other useless, vapid programs. I pay towards huge sums that are then given to countries who hate us. I pay to rebuild countries that I'll never see, nor do I want to -- yet they have all the oil in the world (yeah, baby, that war for oil thing really worked out for us, didn't it? :laugh:). I pay for us to build rockets to go to the moon. Why?? I pay for people's failings left and right. Shall I go on? The hell I don't know what socialism or capitalism are. Sounds to me like you are the one who is confused. Socialism is the pooling of things, be it money or goods, which are then disbursed "fairly" to all. Now, we are not 100 percent socialist YET, but that is coming. The messiah himself wants to "spread the wealth." THAT IS SOCIALISM! For somebody who likes to show how intellligent she is, you seem to miss that completely somehow. When you start talking class envy and taking from the "rich" (all the while sounding angry as if they have no right to be rich) to give to others, THAT IS SOCIALISM. Capitalism is the ability for somebody to go out and build a better mouse trap and not be hindered or impeded by another, whether it's an individual or a government entity. If somebody has built the best thing out there, instead of people treating him like a common criminal and screaming like banshees that he is monopolizing, BUILD A BETTER MOUSE TRAP and make something better than his! Governmentally controlled programs are doing way more than giving out "BASIC" things that people need. And what is "need," anyway? I have seen TONS of people who cry "poor mouth" who are not truly in need. I can see a short-term hand up, but too many people just want their handouts via MY tax dollars through the government pimp. What good does that serve? It's like feeding a wild animal. Pretty soon they get too fat and lazy to go out and kill their own game, especially when you have fresh vittles sitting there waiting for them on the front porch. Where's the incentive to DO anything?? Government-controlled programs should be next to nothing. Forty percent of our people should NOT be on some form of program. Wow, the hatred for somebody who has done... what? We KNOW what is so evil about heil Hussein... what is it about Sarah? Sarah isn't crowing about wanting to spread the wealth or conquer the world. :hurray: One would think, as an otherwise intelligent woman, that you would be happy that a woman has made it this far, even if you disagree with her beliefs and/or policies. Her situation is ground-breakin as well, you know.

Like... I... said... reeks of Hitler's Youth Brigade. See, what you don't seem to realize is that the distance from socialism to communism is thisclose. You think the Patriot Act is bad? Just wait. All you need is your neighbors tattling because you said something that's considered criminal or don't walk in lock step with some group. You may be okay with that because right now you side with heil Hussein. But what if that changes? Then what? You'll be okay with his little Hitlers running around? When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I was not a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

Two words: No teleprompter. :rolleyes2:

Nor am I commanded to give 50 cents of my last dollar to some schmuck who could work but won't. Or make baby after baby after baby that they can't take care of. Or make excuses that McDonald's just doesn't pay enough. Or could have gotten an education but chose not to... chose to do drugs... chose to become an alcoholic... Life is about choices. And I choose not to be forced to help some idiot raise his standard of living.

I haven't voted yet. Nor have I ever said I will vote for McCain. I may write in Micky Mouse for all you know. And Nader is still on the ballot. There are not just two choices.

Businessmen and -women make themselves millionaires and billionaires. Barring the types of bullcrap that Enron executives and other shysters pulled, and no matter what the left will have you believe, wealth is not evil. The class envy on the left is amazing. *snorkle* Something tells me you wouldn't know a neo-conservative if it bit you on the leg. IF he has ushered in neo-conservatives, it is only because he did not stay true to his base and went far afield of the right. I know because you adhere to such leftist policies you don't see it, but to the right, he IS a liberal. Because you are so leftist, to you he is a conservative. You're so very right. And his name is Barack Hussein Obama. Just ask "Joe the Plumber" about how the left has virtually performed anal probes on him for the mortal sin of daring to question Heil Hussein.

Did you make up that phrase "intolerant and hate-filled as Islamofascist terrorists"? Sounds like something you heard from your Republican heros. Not even close. Those are just the kind of angry words that we're going to have to put aside after this election. Beth, we have to live together on this planet, in this country, in our states, in our towns and in our neighborhoods. Do you say the same thing to the leftist people who use "angry words"? If I went over to the "WHY would anybody vote for McCain" thread, would I see just such a thing? Or do you march in lock step with all the other libs and/or allow them to use their hateful rhetoric without calling them out? I understand that politics can bring out the worst in people. I understand that people are passionate about their political beliefs and biases. We're all a product of our upbringing. I'm sure that's true for some, but we never talked politics in my home. As a matter of fact, this is the first year I know who my mother is voting for, and I'm not sure who my dad is supporting. And we're also in this election process a product of those spin masters and rehtoric spewing people that we hear every night and every day on our radios and TVs. I can't hear any right-wing rhetoric on my television because it is all controlled and overrun by the left-wing media. But we're all Americans and we all want a strong country. We've got to get past this crap. People can't continue to call good and patriotic Americans, socialists or terrorists without it eventually causing some kind of eruption. I wouldn't like the label either, but very FIRST definition of "socialism" is "a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole." I call it socialism and those who promote it as socialists because that's exactly what it is and what they are! "Spreading the wealth" is SOCIALISM! Taking over the private sector as the government is beginning to do is SOCIALISM. And my comment about terrorists refers to the way those on the far left (including many on this board) use bullying tactics to shut up the opposition. Terrorists hate our lifestyle, in opposition to their own, and seek to destroy us for our difference. I see the leftist fringe as doing the very same thing, showing the same hatred and vitriol. It is what it is. The Republicans have not been honest in that name-calling B.S. and this attitude that prevails, this attitude of bigotry and resentment, is just plain wrong. You DIDN'T just go there... For everybody I have talked to, this has NOTHING to do with the color of his skin. You talk about the right, but this is RIGHT OUT OF THE LEFTIST-OBAMA PLAYBOOK! Anyone who opposes Obama is a RACIST, a BIGOT! No, we just despise everything the guy stands for! Wow... In fact, I've read some things on these couple of political threads that are as backward and ignorant as anything I've read in years. As have I, but they are all people you would likely call your friends. I mean, one of them actually says her family is HAPPY to be paying taxes! Good grief! Honest to God Beth, you write well, you spell well but the venom that you spout off is totally unexpected from someone who otherwise seems intelligent. Ditto. It amazes me that when the left uses venom, it's just fine, but when the right uses information that the left doesn't like, they call it venom and denounce the messenger. I have been much more respectful than what I have been shown here. I have even been contacted by some who believe as I do and have been run out of here because of some of the "oh-so-tolerant," venom-filled liberals on this board. I guess you expect somebody as intelligent and well-spoken as myself to *gasp* believe as YOU do. Sorry to disappoint you. We're not all the inbreds so many of you make us out to be. I understand that you believe all the terrible lies that your party has put forth. No, I believe the horrible things your messiah has spoken and endorsed. And evidentally you believe that little old bushy haired lady who called Senator Obama an Arab. Or was that gadget? I get you two mixed up because you sound so much alike. it wasn't me, but I believe there are lies involved in who he is. His birth certificate has been in question for months, along with other records, and they are all under lock and key. Why is that? The "certificate of live birth" that was provided has been proven to be a fraud. A "certificate of live birth" is NOT identical to a birth certificate. I truly believe he is hiding things, and there is a huge cover-up involved in many facets of his identity. Senator Obama is not an Arab. He is an American. He is proud to be an American. He loves this country with all his heart and he has said how lucky he is to be an American. You can believe that if you wish. He wants this country to heal the wounds of racial bias in this country. Don't you? If not, why not? This is NOT about race, his or anybody's! Senator Obama has no plans for bigger government. Liberals ALWAYS have plans for bigger government. (I feel like I'm speaking to Joe the Plumber.) And I feel like I'm talking to my navel... He has no plans to increase your taxes. Bull. Unless you make mighty good chunk of change. And even then, he only wants you to pay a fair share of the tax burden - no more or less than during the Reagan years. So what's fair? Will those under X dollars finally pay THEIR fair share? I'm paying MORE than my fair share now, especially when many don't pay anything and we are forking over money to countries that hate us and we are supporting illegals -- including, we now see, his aunt. :rolleyes2: Why are you so opposed to a roll back of the tax breaks that the wealthy have enjoyed for so long? I don't like certain people being singled out at all. Why not single out the freeloaders? Why don't we not only quit forking our money over to them but make them happily pay their fair share like Nanook's family does? McCain wants you to think that the way it works is this: give the wealthy tax breaks, allow corporations to make obscene sums of money while we pay at the gas pumps, and allow the wall street hoods all the leeway in the world to do whatever they want. Actually, corporations that make "obscene amounts of money" are simply practicing capitalism. You know, that thing that MADE this country so great?? Secondly, when you start taking away from the EMPLOYERS, the trickle-down is to create less jobs for the people it's supposed to help. And in case you haven't noticed, gas prices have dropped nearly $2 at the pumps (at least here they have), so that doesn't wash right now. As for the Wall Street hoods, those asswipes need to be in jail. Forever. Then take everything they ever owned. Make an example out of them so the next greedy bunch don't even think about it. And if you do that, it will create jobs and those huge sums of money the people at the top make will eventually trickle down to the middle class. Excuse me, but bullshit. It has been proven time and time and time and time again that you do not stimulate the economy by taxing people more. Then we'll all be rich. No we won't. Taking from some to give to others is and never has been the way for people to get "rich." That's what he's been selling. And apparently you bought it. I have this bridge... What part of Bush's policies are different from that? No part. If I understand you to say that no part of Bush's policies are different from what Obama is selling, you see that isn't working. And after 8 years of the exact things that McCain is proposing, our country is on the brink of financial disaster. There are many reasons for that, part of which has to do with government interference. The unemployment rate is creeping further and further up every day. Hmmm, time to kick the illegals out, perchance?? Middle Americans are not benefitting from Exxon Mobile or other huge corporations making unbelievable profits in this past quarter. We just are not. That kind of financial plan for America does not work for anyone but the wealthy. It is unfair. WHAT is unfair? Capitalism?? If you can build a better mouse trap, go out and DO it!! That's the American way -- not whining how unfair everything is! It breaks the back of people like Joe the Plumber, but Joe is too damn dumb to get it. No, he gets it just fine, better than you do, it appears. He gets that Obama wants to take from some to give to others. That is called SOCIALISM. All he hears is Bush and McCain saying that Democrats want to "spread the wealth" and they interpret that for Joe by saying they want to take your hard-earned money and give it to welfare cheats. Are you for REAL?? Excuse me, but OBAMA said he wants to spread the wealth!!! Omg, you are taking Obama's OWN WORDS and blaming them on Bush and McCain??? I don't care WHO he wants to give it to! He may as WELL give it to welfare cheats -- the fact is if he takes from me to give to somebody else, he is spreading the wealth, which he has NO right to do! It is pathetically absurd. And incredibly stupid. Yes, that you see nothing wrong with that is pathetically absurd and incredibly stupid. Who the hell are you to promote the kind of fringe (to use one of your words) lunacy we've seen in this campaign? Believe me, the left needs no help from me. Obama is as much on the lunatic fringe as they come... and you hail his praises. Sadly that says a lot about your ability to reason.