NeonRaven8919

It could be that your body is having a bit of a panic thinking it’s in starvation mode and therefore is holding on to everything it can! It becomes a battle of wills to see who will back down first - you or your body. Just keep doing what you’re doing and try to keep off the scales if you can (easier said than done at times)
You are doing brilliantly 👍

"So this is the first day of a 12 week liquid diet to lose 10% of my body weight before the surgery."
Wow, 12 weeks is a long time on the liquid diet portion of the prep surgery step! Im glad mine was only a week or two. Sorry for your losses, I'm sure its very difficult.
Good luck and congrats on getting your date moved up!

@orionburn I'm on my pre-op liquid diet and I'm not the one. I will be as kind as possible in my response.
You're in the vegan & vegetarian forum so do not come in here and laugh about eating animals. It's not funny or cute, and it's very disrespectful. I leave my veganism out of the main diet forums so you can leave your meat-eater jokes out of the vegan/vegetarian forum. Thanks!
The evidence is overwhelming that a plant-based vegan diet absolutely is superior to other diets. (Evidence produced by real studies done by real researchers in real medical journals, not some fringe blogger types.) You're welcome to access the numerous resources in this forum to learn about this evidence if you're open-minded enough to do so. The fact that this way of eating is superior obviously does not mean WE are superior. Nobody in this forum claims to be better than anyone else.
My beef with Joe Cross is that he is clearly riding the wave of interest in veganism/plant-based eating without making it crystal clear that he includes animal Protein in his diet not just occasionally but every single day. That's deceptive. I think it's probable that a large swath of his followers and supporters are buying his books and products thinking they are supporting a vegan lifestyle - meaning they wouldn't be buying if they knew he's eating animals everyday. To me, that's just wrong.
I'll weigh in with a different perspective from @fruitandveggies on the term "plant-based." While I do agree it's often being used as a softer way to say vegan without saying vegan, it also distinguishes a healthy whole foods diet from a vegan junk food diet. Soda and candy and all kinds of highly processed meat/cheese substitutes are vegan but they are excluded from a plant-based diet. The term "whole foods plant-based" is a mouthful so people just say plant-based, or sometimes they just say vegan for the sake of recognition. I started off not liking the term vegan but have come to embrace it so sometimes I say plant-based and sometimes I say vegan. It doesn't matter, they mean 85% the same thing and both completely exclude animal products.

My diet is plant based. I eat the animals that eat the plants.

I will never to subscribe to any one diet being superior to another. Find what works for you and makes you happy. Want to be a vegan? Great. It simply doesn't make you better than everyone else. Nor does going carb free, or gluten free, of whatever else. If the guy was selling himself as being vegan that's one thing, but you can argue that his diet is plant based if the majority of his diet is fruits & veggies. Just because it does include meats doesn't negate the other 80-90% of his diet being plant based.

My doctor said women must eat 60-60 grams after surgery, and men 80-100. so no... I don't think she has a problem. That is what you need.
You can use plant protein, protein doesn't = meat.
I am not full vegan, but try to eat as little animal product as possible.
I use Isopure flavorless protein in my Soups and drinks to help hit my number. But I also use this Vegan Protein from 1st Phorm... when I tell you the french toast flavored one in coffee is AMAZING, it really is. They have a lot of flavors and other vegan options.
https://1stphorm.com/collections/protein/products/vegan-power-pro

Hi,
This topic drives me nuts because it just builds fear and people hit me with this all the time. Grr.
My nutritionist doesn't think surgery is right for me unless i start eating meat. I think its just old school training. I gave her a copy of the China Study and Forks over Knives and calculated my actual daily Protein intake on My Fitness Pal.
Using accepted protein calculations, the same ones she uses, heres what I found.
Your protein needs should be based on a healthy weight rather than the weight you are before surgery. Fat doesn't require protein so adding excess weight into the calculations is silly. At 5ft 4 all I need is 60 to 70 grams of protein and that is probably high for me. During recovery when my body is trying to heal or when Im trying to gain muscle, my body would require more.
The lobbyists decide what goes in the medical books but the information is out there from reliable scientific studies. Many green leafy veggies have about 10% protein built in. You need to consider all sources of protein when calculating your daily intake. I admit this will be harder and some supplementation will be required after surgery, but I swear my nutritionist stopped reading when she graduated school, about 20 years ago. Sad but true.( She still thinks cows milk is a good source of Calcium but it has been proven to do more harm to your bones than good as the calcium molecule is to coarse for us to use..)
To much animal protein is just as dangerous for the body as too little. Animal protein has been linked to heart disease and cancer. Read the China study, do your research and do whats best for you. There is a whole healthy vegan community out there thriving, working out, building muscle all while eating a plant based diet without excess supplements.
Sorry for the rant, hope it helps.

So bottom line, it's our responsibility to our future health to take in the Protein that is going to repair our bodies and build new cells and maintain life. Those Proteins need to be easily digestible and bioavailable. They need to be complete. So whatever sources they're from: plant of animal, that's the bottom line. If you don't like it--then I highly encourage you to NOT have the surgery. Cuz it's a lifelong commitment that you make to get your daily protein in!!!!
This isn't a position of "those damn meat eaters" all they talk about is protein! It's not a political conspiracy to keep the man down. It's your nutritionists opinion that you need 100g of protein/day. So you follow it, or don't. They will be running tests on you and those tests are gonna tell the truth of your status.
Albumin and pre-albumin test for how much protein you are getting and have available. The lower the number the greater the association with death from all causes. Critically ill and malnourished people will have low values on these tests. And once you deplete your protein, it's very difficult to replace it--cuz it's much easier to replace it with fat. So you break down protein, you slow your metabolism, and once you DO start eating more calories (and you will--just wait and see), then you will be back crying cuz you've gained your weight back and you "just don't understand why"!?!
So if you want all to be well with your life, I'd recommend you meet your protein goals. Most of us have a goal of 60-80g of protein per day, cuz we're just average peeps of average musculature. I try to get at least 60g/day.

Since I know I am going to have track my food, weight & supplements etc. very closely, I wanted to combine this with my love of journaling so it wont be such a pain (hopefully!)
Does anyone use journals for tracking post surgery? looking for ideas on page layout, what's necessary to include, cute stickers etc.
I figure the more fun I make this, the more likely I will actually keep at it and do it properly 🤞😉

So if any of you have read my story on here, you will know I have PCOS.
I am 28 now, and I was diagnosed when I was 21.
I haven't really had a regular cycle, and in the past 2 years I have probably only had 3 times where I have bled REALLY light. I wouldn't even call it a period 🤣
So now I have lost weight, in the past 2 and a bit months I have had 2 periods - proper ones! I am both elated but also now reminded of the annoyance of them 😂
Grateful to my body for functioning, but boy oh boy, the hormones?!?! I have been an absolute wreck this week - angry, depressed, sad, crying, detached, more angry. 🤦‍♀️
On an interesting note though, I was really struggling with my restriction - I really need to be eating more - and I noticed that whilst on my period I could eat more which was good!
Anyway, just a bit of an observation from me 😂

The things people feel they have permission to say never ceases to amaze me... Fat phobia is deeply ingrained in our society. It is a sad thing because being fat is still seen as lazy or a morality issue instead of the medical issue it truly is. Just because we need support and sometimes surgery to deal with the weight doesn't mean it isn't a medical issue. People who are thin and have been thin all their lives can be really narrow minded about weight. They think they are incredibly self controlled and virtuous to maintain their weight, instead of realizing that most times it is luck of the draw...
No one in my immediate family is as heavy as I am by any means, and in fact my sister barely touches 100 lbs. She's healthy, she's just naturally tiny. She's always been angry at the comments I get because she knows that she eats more food and more crap than I do, especially when we were younger, and yet she struggles to maintain weight and I can't keep it off. I adore her because she celebrates every win I have regarding my weight because she understands how hard it is. People can be biting to naturally tiny people too... My brother on the other hand is supportive but is very fat phobic. He gains 15 lbs and calls himself a fat ass and obsessively works out at the gym until he can get it off. He doesn't understand the struggle at all.
I've been very open with everyone I know about the surgery because that's just how I live my life. Most are wildly supportive because they know how hard it has been for me... I'm sure a few silently judge me but they can keep their thoughts to themselves. I don't make space for their bullshit. The best way to deal with that crap is exactly what you did, to tell them to stop and show visible disgust. I react that way to other discrimination too, it is very useful for shutting down a conversation! LOL

First, degrading someone because of their weight is simply UNACCEPTABLE. Period.
That being said, I may have a different take on some of this. I've been VERY open about my surgery with family, friends, and co-workers (I've actually had two co-workers have the surgery after they saw my success). I WAS fat. Seriously FAT. Even if people didn't say things, I know darned well they thought them. Maybe it's because I am/was so open about the surgery, people are more comfortable saying "DAMN, I didn't realize you were THAT big!" when they look at before pictures. It doesn't bother me at all. I take pride in my accomplishment and try to use it as an educational moment.
On another note, one thing I find myself doing now is sometimes thinking about how this surgery could change someones life. Not from a "OMG, did you see how much food they are eating??!!", but rather seeing someone overweight, struggling to walk, out of breath, etc (just like I was before surgery) and thinking to myself (I would NEVER say anything unsolicited) MAN, surgery could change your life....
Anyway, my takeaway, is that people ARE going to see you differently. Some are idiots and are going to say things they THINK are appropriate because now you're "one of them" and offend you. All you can really do is be proud of what YOU have accomplished and if they offend you, let them know.

Answer: "Oh, hon - having watched all seasons of 600 lbs life on TLC doesn't count as "knowing someone", you know."

What in the actual eff! that is horrible! Very very select ppl know I am having this surgery because of the backlash.

I am outwardly fierce and confident. No one but my doctor, since high school has ever dared to mention my weight. I would deck them.
Now they just say wow you look good, your new hair style suits you or think my husband has a mistress. There is loads of Exorcist head turning going on when we go out together. What they are saying behind my back has not as yet been heard by me.
I am a big believer in Karma. What goes around always comes around with a heavy hammer.

I'm also in the "what to do for the birthday Struggle Club!

My surgery is 7th of October and my birthday is tomorrow 25th July.
My dr put me on a 12 week milk diet (1.5litres of milk with semi-skimmed milk and 1 salty drink a day) to quickly lose weight before my surgery.
So I don't want to jeopardise that and have my usual slices of cake from my favourite bakery. It's also my friend's wedding on Saturday. I can't avoid the wedding are ask people to do something that isn't food related. But I can control my birthday and avoid temptation.
I made the decision to go out and get my nails done and go to a comedy club instead! I'm not much of a drinker so the club won't be a temptation and I can't eat while getting my nails done!
Next year, I'll be thinner and probably more in the mood to Celebrate anyway.

I have contemplated eating what I want too while getting all my pre op stuff done. But then my blood work came back saying that, instead of still being borderline, I was now in fact Type 2 Diabetic. Luckily I had already started Keto weeks previous before that test came back (to get me used to no sugars or bad carbs). But yeah before that I most definitely felt like saying eff it, I'm gonna eat what I want while I can. But nope, figured I'd take this time now to prepare myself for what needs to become the norm for me anyway once this surgery is done. But I totally get your way of thinking. Had my blood work not come back like it did I may have even done the same but that scared the sh*t outta me because it is something I had been trying to avoid for years now.

People refer to this as having "food funerals". I didn't have the opportunity because my surgery was scheduled so abruptly that I had to start the pre-op the same day I got my surgery date. But it's not an uncommon impulse.
The good thing to remember is that you can very likely enjoy those foods again. The post-op diet starts off pretty strict but by the time you are done losing weight you can eat almost anything (minus the one or two items that still upset some of our stomachs). Not as often and in smaller portions, but very few foods are off-limits forever (my bariatric team gave me two: carbonated drinks and popcorn).
In the two years since my surgery I've had Chick-Fil-A, Thai food, ice cream (non-dairy for me), and other goodies. I'm still not able to eat ground beef, so hamburgers are not on the menu. But since they don't sit well in my tummy, I don't miss them. Practically anything else, I can have if I really want it (just not often and not all together). Part of learning how to maintain is learning how to have an occasional indulgence without going into a destructive binge. So, you don't really need to have food funerals. You're not saying goodbye forever to most foods, just "I'll see you later".
Forgive yourself and look forward! Exciting times ahead. Hugs. 🤗

I'm also in the "what to do for the birthday Struggle Club!

My surgery is 7th of October and my birthday is tomorrow 25th July.
My dr put me on a 12 week milk diet (1.5litres of milk with semi-skimmed milk and 1 salty drink a day) to quickly lose weight before my surgery.
So I don't want to jeopardise that and have my usual slices of cake from my favourite bakery. It's also my friend's wedding on Saturday. I can't avoid the wedding are ask people to do something that isn't food related. But I can control my birthday and avoid temptation.
I made the decision to go out and get my nails done and go to a comedy club instead! I'm not much of a drinker so the club won't be a temptation and I can't eat while getting my nails done!
Next year, I'll be thinner and probably more in the mood to Celebrate anyway.

Actually, I did say what I wanted to hear. I said, please tell me I haven't failed. It's literally in the title.
Making a passive-aggressive post over here about my thread is kinda rude.

YIKES. Ok this is a tough one. I am a very blunt, call it like I see it person IRL. I call out BS and I don't put up with pity parties and manipulation. And yes, I've seen a person or 2 on here that falls into that category, so I tend to stay away from those posts. The reason being, food addiction is a real thing. It's an ugly beast that can strike at any time. Some may not be doing what they need to, and while my first instinct (and clearly yours) is to point it out and "give it to em straight", there's a way to say things that still get the point across without the humiliation and hurt and aggressiveness. We have all suffered that IRL. That's part of why we're here and had the surgery. We are looking for like minded people that truly understand the unrelenting hold that food demon has on us. And we're looking for compassionate advice on how to get past it and get (or stay) on track. Maybe therapy is needed, maybe accountability IRL is needed, maybe experiences from others and how they did it is needed, maybe just strength and encouragement is needed (this might be the only place they get it). And yes, sometimes tough love is needed. But it's not up to us to give it. We don't know their state of mind, their emotional status, anything. I am as motivated as they come. But if I falter, if I mess up, I would hope I could get some compassionate and supportive help to get me back on track and not be bereted for not living up to the ideal standards.

There is a fine line between supportive and mean... gotta tread lightly.

Maybe YOU feel better when people are giving you tough love, but most people do not. Most people find "supportive" comments make them more inclined to change their behavior. And, you were probably struggling with your weight for years before surgery. Did anyone "telling you the truth about how you're doing everything wrong" cause you to meaningfully start eating healthier and exercising more? If it did, you wouldn't have ended up getting surgery.
There is so much scientific literature that shows that BULLYING is not helpful. Telling people that they MUST be doing everything wrong or else they'd have great results is NEVER going to make someone change their behavior, and it ASSUMES that there is something wrong with what they are doing.
Since you are not their doctor and have not examined them, and you do not follow them around all day watching what they eat and do, you can only assume that she is doing everything wrong; you really have no evidence, and I know there are a lot of people who do everything right and still don't loose much weight.

JUST STOP BEING MEAN AND UNHELPFUL

This thread was a wild ride. I also don't believe OP was trolling, but I think there are more issues going on here than just dealing with the weight loss stuff. If you're still reading this OP, I sincerely recommend you try to speak with a therapist about the issues you've been discussing. If you can find a bariatric therapist, great. Otherwise, any certified therapist should be able to help provide you with a caring ear. You seem to be carrying a lot more weight than just the physical pounds, if you get what I'm saying, and speaking to someone can help lighten the load.
Regarding the specific things you've been discussing, a few thoughts. First, as others have mentioned, the procedure you chose is a tool like the other procedures, but it's a tool that statistically results in the least weight lost of the rest. That doesn't mean you can't be extremely successful, just that it might be tougher.
You say you don't want to be one of those people weighing every gram of your food on a postage scale. Well, I'm one of those people and I've been lucky enough to have a lot of success so far. That said, I don't necessarily watch every gram, if I'm a little over it's not the end of the world. But most people have absolutely no idea what a portion of food actually weights until they actually weigh it. When I started out I was shocked on how small my 4 oz potions of food were, if I had been eyeballing them I would have had twice as much as I should have. So I would get a cheap scale (you can get them for $10 or less) and start weighing EVERYTHING. You say you don't have time, but it takes practically no time at all. Weighing all my ingredients takes at MOST 3-4 minutes per DAY. You just put stuff on your plate like normal, but first put the plate on the scale. I had some cantaloupe for a snack earlier, and I just put the bowl on the scale and watched the numbers as I filled it and stopped when I hit my limit. It took pretty much the same amount of time that it would have taken to put the cantaloupe in the bowl without using the scale anyway.
You also mentioned you weren't interested in a sleeve because you believe the recovery time would be a month. I can only speak for myself but four days after my sleeve I drove 30 miles to visit with family, and I was fine. I took about a week or so off of work and went back with no problems. Everyone is different but from what I've seen posted by others, that's generally the experience most folks have. I'm not saying you need a revision, but don't let the potential recovery time deter you from a procedure if you and your doctor feel it would be appropriate.
Best of luck.

I agree. We gave the benefit of the doubt with what info we were given in the beginning. That's all we can do. It's not good to jump to assumptions about someone in the beginning that's here asking for support/help/info. You might suspect that they're not doing what their plan says, but you have to gather info from them to make an assessment and sometimes they're not completely transparent.

As an ESGer myself, it is crystal clear that the procedure should have NEVER been done in the first place. The OP does not have and most likely never had the mindset needed in order for the ESG procedure (or any other type of WLS) to be successful. Shame on the clinic who preformed the procedure. With that being said, OP you wanted a quick, easy fix. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.