pattygreen

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I have never stated that everything in the bible is good and wonderful. Just that everything in the bible is true. I believe that the bible needs to be read in its full context and even studied some in order to understand some of the things that God has allowed. Mankind is truly sinful. We kill and destroy and lie and steal and the list goes on and on. God shows us our sinfulness in scripture so that we will recognize our need for a Savior. We just can't be good on our own. Many of the stories in the bible, especially in the O.T., show us this. Not everything God has willed or planned for man to do. Man does what he feels is right in his own eyes, and always has and will. God has ordered war in the days of old for many differing reasons, just like leaders today order war for their own reasons. (sometimes it is for vengeance, sometimes for protection, sometimes for freedom rights, sometimes it's simply to keep the land that belongs to you, etc.) But it's not wrong to go to war. Yes, people are killed in war,and that's a tragedy, but sometimes war is an evil necessity.

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In Exodus 31, the war that God instigated was for his vengeance against the Midianites for their part in seducing the Israelites to engage in sexual immorality and to worship Baal of Peor (A false God).The women were the ones who were guilty and did the seducing, therefore they were to be killed. The virgins were innocent of the indecencies at Peor, thus their lives were spared. And if the men didn't keep them for themselves as wives, who would care for them? Women depended on the men for their very survival back then. They didn't hold jobs. It was an act of mercy for the men to keep them for themselves. (they didn't rape them) Many countries have gone to war over vengence. When Pearl Harbor was hit, we didn't tolerate it. Even so, God is allowed to send his people into a Holy war against others if he so chooses. In Deut. 21, the Lord allowed the men who went to war to take a wife from the remains of the war back with them if they so chose to. This was because the after affects of war were hard on the women. Like I said, women whose husbands were killed in a war, needed to be cared for. It's not like today. Women didn't have jobs or any means except prostitution to make a living and get food. Believe me, even though they were very upset about the war and their men being killed, they were even more grateful if someone took them home with them to be their husband. This was what was needed to be done. It's like a soldier seeing a baby or child left behind form the destruction of the war they just fought and taking the child back with them to care for them instead of leaving them there to die from lack of food or care. The Lord tells the man to give the women time to mourn before they can become husband and wife in verse 13. He is being considerate of their loss, yet gacious to still provide for them. Isaiah 13 is a prophecy against Babylon.(present day Iran) God's judgements on the Nations are often a part of his salvation of his people. This prophecy foretells what will happen in the future. It is a warning to mankind of his fierce anger and wrath that he will pour out on "the day of the Lord" (which speaks of his return) It is those who are at war at that time who do these horrible killings, not God. The fact is that all people are affected by war. Isaiah 3:17 There are always cosequences for our wrong doings.

If it makes you feel better to think that, then....

I guess it all boils down to if you believe that the bible is God's guidebook to mankind or not. If you do, then you will believe what he says in there. If not, then live as you choose, and we'll all see when our lives are over. What else can I say?

It's "Thou shalt not murder."

Besides the fact that God approves capitol punishment, it is also a deterent to crime. The death penalty is a warning, just like a lighthouse throwing its beams out to sea. We hear about shipwrecks, but we do not hear about the ships the lighthouse guides safely on their way. We do not have proof of the number of ships it saves, but we do not tear the lighthouse down."(1) If capital punishment is even a potential deterrent, that is a significant enough social reason to implement it.

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bjean:Then we are crazy as a country. We've committed murder and horrible atrocities in Iraq and elsewhere. We commit murder when we kill convicts who have been convicted of crimes.

Did you mean "faith in all the non christians"? You know, the "good" people?:ihih: Because there are plenty of good christians. Those like the abortion doctor killer should NOT be considered part of Christ's family. He willfully committed a horrible crime of murder and is not held in high esteem by christians! I know you "LOVE" to continue to include people like him among us christian believers, but would it be fair for me to say that every non believer in Christ that committed a murder or an atrocious crime is one of yours? They think like you do? No, that wouldn't be fair, would it. So drop it, bjean! You know full well that ANY person, christian or not, that commits murder in ANYBODYS name is sick and has mental/emotional problems and is not a representative of a group by which they affirm themselves!

Kartman, Thank you soooo much. It is refreshing to have someone who will not be insensitive to my faith and what I believe God has said on issues. I like you. And if I have ever said anything insensitve to you, I apologize as well. It is never my intent to hurt anyone here.

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If that is your opinion, you are entitled to have it.

God knows the past, present and future. He is all knowing.In the human realm on earth we are bound by 'time', in the spiritual realm, there is no time.

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Yes, he does. Before you were even born he knew you and he knew what your choices would be.

I am sorry about calling you a murderer. It was directed in general for all women who kill their unborn babies. Sorry, but this is what I feel they are doing when they abort. Whether they think they are or not.

His free will to choose anything. Including who he will serve.

I didn't say it's a new thing. I said the 'term' is new to christians. They used to just be called 'believers'. Born again people have been around since Christ's death.

I'm not bashing anyone. Have I ever called you a name? I am simply typing out my beliefs as God has given them to me in the bible, and responding to the posts. If you feel that I have something against you personally, I don't. Just because you don't agree with my claims, doesn't mean I am bashing you. Everyone has a right to believe as they choose.

God controls everything but mans free will to choose whom he will serve. Would you want robots or puppets for children who are programmed to love you and obey you? This is why he gives us free will.

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Also, I am glad that I can still worship any way I choose in America. You are right about that.

It is true that America is still predominately Christian. But what is sad is that the christians have allowed, by their silence, for their faith of the one true God whom the founding Fathers professed, to be pushed out of government and law making. I can see how wonderful America could be if they would live according to the way that God has planned for them and if they made their decisions concerning the laws of this land based on his word. I can see how there would be no controversy over what is right and wrong and what we should accept, tolerate or deny.