pattygreen

bjean, Americans are not confused about what Obabma wants with Health care reform. He wants the government to have MORE control of the people and their choices. Give the people some credit. We're not as stupid as the dems believe us to all be. Also, these protesters are not rabble rousers and their deffinitely not causing riots. They are just angry peeople who are fed up with government interference and spending. Fed up! Obama talks all about this economy "that was handed to him", yet people forget, and I believe it should be talked about more often, that in his OWN first 6 months as president, he has spent MORE than the past president AND all the others since George Washington combined!!!!!! This is ridiculious!. We can NOT afford to pass this bill. There is NOT ONE financial wizard out there who says we can sustain this in the future. Obama needs to start listening to the people. He may speak well, but he doesn't hear well.

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/AAHCA09001xml.pdf

This is a copy of a letter that someone sends her representative after reading the health care bill. I am in agreement with her on every issue. Julie Posted August 4, 2009 at 5:12 pm Here is a copy of my thoughts and the letter I’ll be sending to my representatives Senator Bayh As a citizen of Indiana who works in healthcare I have major concerns with the healthcare bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill that was released by the house ways and means committee and I am shocked by the brazenness of the government’s proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a healthcare system that works for all. I agree that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed. I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to fully read the bill and look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill (I have added my concerns to some of the provisions under their respective lines in italics). You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens. As you read this bill and make your choice of how to vote, take into consideration that as servants to the citizens of this country, all members of government should be required to carry the government healthcare plan that they enact as their own healthcare plan for themselves and their families. If you would not desire this plan for yourself or your family DO NOT VOTE FOR IT!!! Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get. The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals’ finances & a National ID Health card will be issued! Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to you banks accounts for elective funds transfer. Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange. Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan. Who regulates these companies? And why the heck is Acorn being discussed as a possibility to do this? If there are groups to be used then they should be highly regulated as to their methods unlike Acorn in the last voter registration drive. Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice. What happens if the individual is not interested in Government based Healthcare? Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Govt Monopoly. How is this American? Our country has always utilized its ability to grow and adapt by questioning itself through “judicial review” of practices and ideologies that are outdated. Does this mean that the government wants the medical and science communities to stop learning new and improved methods of treating and curing illnesses? We can’t afford to allow one government body to dictate our medical and scientific growth and development!! I realize that this bill has “the Center” for research, but a lot of valid research occurs in the physician’s office with individual patients. Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make. I understand the desired outcome of this provision. However, by allowing this line to stay in the bill, the government is stifling physicians ability to specialize and develop better treatment options for patients. It may allow all patients to be able to afford the same care, but sometimes the “best care” from more expensive, more specialized physicians allows for this growth, which then becomes common practice by all physicians after it has been proven to be effective. History has proven that the ‘wealthy’ are willing to pay more for their healthcare and this willingness has required physicians to “think outside the box” and develop these new treatments to accommodate this particular population. These physicians take on more risks and as a result deserve to be compensated at a higher rate for that risk. Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. Page 146 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payrolls. Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business’s with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll. Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income. Where does the money come from for these employers to pay for this insurance? This could bankrupt many small companies leaving even more people unemployed and uninsured! The government is already spending my unborn grandchildren’s money, so they can’t provide these funds to the employers without continuing to spend money that doesn’t exist. Government spending must be halted not increased. Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay) Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records. Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected. Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor’s time, profession, judgment etc. Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries. Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs. Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS Cancer patients - welcome to rationing! Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions. Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you. This provision makes absolutely no sense to me! Some conditions and diseases have recurring sub-conditions that require hospital treatment and monitoring as a normal part of their disease process. So with this provision the government will be forcing hospitals to refuse to treat these sub-conditions of their patients to avoid fines. This is NOT improved healthcare for United States Citizens!!! If individual hospitals are abusing the system by discharging and readmitting patients on the same day or the next day in order to continue to receive government funds then and only then should the hospital be fined. This is not an area where across the board rules will be beneficial to patients or the hospitals that treat them. Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own! Since when did the government of the United States have the right to dictate what it’s citizens owned? The Equal Rights (for women) and Civil Rights (for those of ‘minority’ status) allow for every United States citizen the right to own property and pursue financial independence through equal employment opportunities and other legal financial opportunities. Good Healthcare providers do not practice medicine based on how much money they can make, instead they make money by being tireless in their pursuits to give their patients the best care, medicine and treatments available. Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand. Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. This means that if a community experiences a population growth, its ability to meet the healthcare needs of its citizens is jeopardized as a result of the government deciding that it can or can’t expand. Healthcare representatives should be allowed to be proactive in caring for the community. Delays by having to apply for an exception and going to the community for input delays the care the community expects from their local healthcare representatives. This could result in people going untreated due to an ineffective healthcare system and could also result in a loss of revenue for that community as citizens are forced to look outside of their community for healthcare. Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome-based measures. HC the way they want. Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan. Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Committee. Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients. Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory! Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends? Page 429 Lines 1-9: An “advanced care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patients’ health deteriorates. Page 429 Lines 10-12: “advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT! Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life! Physicians, nurses and social workers in healthcare are already addressing end of Life care. This is an area of healthcare that is very personal to the patients and family members involved and should not be interfered with by the government! We are all going to die, that is a fact of life, but how we die (if not by a sudden illness or accident) is as individual as the lives we live. The government has no right to indicate how a patient should address that part of their life: family and religious beliefs, as well as the patients’ condition are the only things that should be considered. A politician in Washington will have no personal investment in those areas of the patients care and would not want someone interfering if the patient were themselves or a loved one and as such should leave that part of healthcare to the patient and the physician and healthcare workers involved with that individual patient. Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services. This bill appears to me to be another way for government to control the lives of its citizens. The United States that I have been led to believe in is Represented by its government officials and not controlled by them. I believe in the United States where we have the freedom to lead our lives the way we choose and where those ideals are protected by the government, this is what I believe our founding fathers and the writers of our constitution wanted for the United States at the birth of our country. This bill comes from a true need to fix our current healthcare system, please use your vote to reflect the voices of those you represent and protect us from decisions made too quickly with little or no thought given to what the American People truly want. Please be aware as you vote that we need healthcare reform for the people of this country and their individual healthcare needs, and NOT for the government to dictate across the board treatments for illnesses. Illnesses are as individual as the patients that they effect and the treatment of those patients should be allowed to reflect that individuality. Thank you for your thought and consideration, May God bless and guide you as you continue to represent the state of Indiana. Julie B.

The whole reason for this health care bill was to reform it because Obama says that there are 47 million people in this country without insurance. Let me explain where he gets the 47 million from: !8 million are those who can afford insurance, but don't choose to get it. 8.4 million are those between 18-25 years old who feel they are indestructable. 12.6 million are illegals. 9.4 million are in between jobs and only temporarily uninsured. 8 million are children that could be covered, but their parents have not signed them up. And 3.5 million are eligible for government health programs but haven't signed up for them. (These categories add up to more than 47 million, because some categories overlap each other). So,..... why do we need government health care?????? Because it's just another step closer to full control of the Powers that Be.

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No, not because you want medical reform, but because you want the "government controlled" medical reform.

Heather: "I really can't see a good person with a good heart being automatically condemned for the sin of being born different."

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Kat, even if you are born gay (which you're not, for every action taken is a choice we make), that wouldn't change the fact that God said to have sex with the same sex is wrong. So if you're 'born' that way, you are in for either a sexless lifestyle or settling to have sex with the opposite sex if you want to obey God. Some people are born with disablities and have to live with them. They accept the fact that they are blind or have a weight problem or have one arm, whatever. Therefore, whether you are 'Born' gay, or not matters little when it comes down to sinning against God or not. It's just another thing that God uses to show mankind his absolute NEED for a Savior.

Get real! If there is anyone to feel sorry for, it's people like you who want the government to take away your freedoms. The freedoms all those people fought and died for.

There seems to be alot of revolution in America underway. What with the Tea parties, Dump Dodd rallies, the 10th Ammendment Sovereignty Movement, The Audit the Fed Bill, and many other events, organizations and publications resisting the federal governments disregard for the Constitution and assaults on our freedoms. The voters have been apathetic at best. We the people, own this country, and we 'hire' officials, via elections to operate it for us. It is our obligation as citizens to supervise them. Instead we have turned our backs on freedom and independence. The people have been propagandized by media and bribed by free handouts into dependence on the government for everything.They've become economic slaves wearing gold shackles in a socialist empire run for the benefit of the political class. Our founders wanted freedom from government not dependence on it. We need to vote the bums out! Repeal the socialist programs and constitutional violations destroying America. Return to a free society with limited government, states' rights and local control! Some differences I see in most dems and reps: Republicans believe the constitution means what it says and says what it means. Dems want to pass legislation behind the backs of people in the dead of night. Reps want a public airing of legislation before acting. Dems believe what you work hard for and earn should be taken and given to those too lazy to work. Reps believe you should keep what you earn. Dems believe government should control every aspect of everyday life. Reps believe government should stop intruding. Dems believe they know what is best for you, reps believe you do. The earth has cooled over the last 10 yeras, but Dems believe in global warming. Reps believe more proof is needed and most believe God is in control in that area. In essence, Dems want to control and Reps don't.

Plain: "Ok, so now the problem will get even worse. More business and jobs going overseas. It's ok though, we'll just blame Bush when the unemployment rates top 11%." I have 5 friends who work at Pratt and Whitney in Cheshire, CT. They have just announced their moving overseas (Asia) where they can pay their employers less.A Thousand more layoffs coming soon. It would be great if the one who was making $40./hr. making parts could be told to take a 50% paycut or lose the job. (Unions!) They just can't afford to pay these people such high wages. What a shame. My husband's friend works there and so does his wife. They will both be out of work at the same time.

I might have endorsed the health care program of Obama's if Senators Chris Dodd and Edward Kennedy didn't sneak in a provision exonerating Congress from participation in it. Social justice for all will be achieved when everybody is included. This is why I call it a government takeover and control issue.

When a president takes more time in making a decision over the kind of family dog he will choose (6 months) than the kind of healthcare proposal for the nation he will sign(he gave them 2 weeks) you know we're in trouble!

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One thing I know for sure. The people will get the leadership it deserves. God will see to it.

With all due respect to you, Kat, I want to state that I am sick and tired of being accused of saying things I have never said! I have ALWAYS affirmed that I am not the one to tell you where your soul will end up. I have NEVER told anyone including YOU that they were going to Hell. I NEVER said what "gate' you are heading for. You must have 'assumed' it was the wide gate over the narrow one, cause I never said that. You don't have any right to tell me what kind of attitude I have, for you are not me! If you are feeling judged by me and thus feel less worthy than me, that is your own doing unto yourself. I have never boasted of being on a higher plain than anyone, so please don't put words or your own assumptions on me. Do you think that my telling others the truth about eternal life is a "threat" to people? I see it differently. I see it as opening eyes to the dangers of the afterlife when you don't know Jesus as your Savior. It's a life without your maker in it. Forever sorrowful. Isn't it better to be warned of it prior? I think that it is better to do both. You should be loving and kind to people as well as being truthful about what God has to say. When you talk to your children about the wrongs they do, you don't just 'love' them into doing the right thing, you also 'warn' them of the consequences when they don't do right. As a believer in Christ, I do both. I love people and I tell them straight up about what God has to say. Too many christians are afraid to speak the truth concerning what God says about eternal life for fear of people telling them they are judgmental or saying they are hateful for the words they speak about God. This couldn't be farther from the truth. The fact is that it is because christians LOVE others sooooo much that we share what God has to say about issues. When people contemplate their own sinfulness, they then begin to recognize their need for a Savior. Without that uncomfortableness that comes along with thinking about maybe having to go to Hell and being without God forever, people will never come to Christ. It's a price that christians have to pay for sharing the gospel. Even Jesus talks about it. It's a price I'm willing to bare. So, with all due respect, I am not judging you or anyone who reads this. I am a very loving, kind and supportive person, and if you were able to meet me in person, you would think so as well. Others in my life say that I am very compassionate and loving and giving of myself. I am telling you this because what you hear of me here on LBT is mostly in the rants and raves area where we discuss very controversial issues. These issues concern right and wrong life choices.So the topic of sin and the consequences of it will come up with me. One last thing. Kat said: Patty with all due respect, you have no idea of what gate I am headed for------I truly believe the same can be said of you. I just want to tell you that I am certain of my destination and what gate I will enter through when my life is over. God gives all believers this peace of mind. You can have it, too.:cool2:

Just another sad story of how drugs and their addicting power can overtake someone till they die from it. They have raided his private physicians office or clinic to search for something. Like Anna Nicole and Elvis, we will probably find a drug overdose of some kind, not a heart attack. Then the doctors involved will be on trial. We'll then watch that on the news for the next year. ho hum.

All I can say (type) to that is another scripture, a quote from Jesus: "Enter through the narrow gate, For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. (Matthew 7:13,14)

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Sorry for the misunderstanding here. I certainly didn't mean to say that they were not mistreated. They were in many ways. I'm saying that they were brought the word of God and because of that, they were blessed by Him.

Yes, christianity made their lives better. If they died off, and we all will, they are in Heaven now instead of Hell. The one thing that unbelievers do alot is think in the realm of this life only. Believers in God always think in the realm of eternity, and make their decisions in life not just on what will happen here on earth, but also in heaven. Believers understand that life is everlasting. Who says the indians were cursed by God? They had every bit of opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior as the rest of the world. And if they did,they will now be enjoying their decision in the after life. Sounds like a blessing to me.

Not true. The Catholic church is the church that ruled over in England before we came here to America to get away from that rule. It was so named the dark ages because of that particular church keeping christians in the dark about what was actually in the bible. The bible was actually read in its entirety by some people there and when word got out that the Catholic church was teaching so many unscriptural things as biblical truths, the protestants, so named for their protesting of the Catholic church's dogma, turned strongly against the catholic church leaders and demanded the bible for themselves to read. In christianity, no one claims to be perfect (except maybe the pope:rolleyes:), but perfection isn't the goal. Heaven is. If some denominations disagree on things, it is okay. Man has never been known to be able to see eye to eye on all things. Just look at our government. There is only one issue that christian denominations can not differ on in any way, and that is that Jesus is the way to get eternal life. If they differ on that issue, then they need to not be called 'christian'.

These people actually saw the hand of God first hand as he delivered them from slavery in Egypt. They watched God hold back the egyptians with a flame of fire from nowhere and saw the Red sea divided for their safe journey to the other side, yet they still didn't believe. Talk about stubborn. It just goes to show you that there are some who will never choose to believe in the existance of God, even if he parted a Sea for them. They knew full well, that Moses' God was the one true, real God, but because he was a long time in returning from the Mt., they grew impatient. They were used to having an Idol to 'look' at and 'see'. So they decided to make one. I suppose that if you and others (unbelievers) feel that God is irrelevent in the decisions that you make, then you will ultimately make your own choices. I'm not against people making their own choices, just when those choices change the laws that have been set up to govern the land in a moral and decent way. For instance, I am against gay marriage because God says that to have sex with the same sex is sinful. If 2 men want to have sex with each other, go right ahead, they are grown adults and can do anything they choose, just don't try to make it a law that makes it an acceptable and right thing to do. It's not. Same thing with prostitution.

- The Greek Septuagint in the Codex includes books not found in the Hebrew Bible and regarded in the Protestant tradition as apocryphal, such as 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, 1 & 4 Maccabees, Wisdom and Sirach. Appended to the New Testament are the Epistle of Barnabas and 'The Shepherd' of Hermas. These books were put into the 'catholic' bible only. In the bibles that everyone else read they are not there. This would only bring question to the Catholic denomination as to why they 'added' these books to the holy scriptures. Kat wanted to know where I got the info, and that's why I posted that link. I think you may need to reread the link, for even though it says that whole parts were left out, it wasn't because someone deliberately took parts out of it, but because they were not intact or found. They were ruined over time. I own an original greek version of the bible that is translated into english. I can open any other version of scripture and read them side by side and their meaning is the same. There are never any contradictions.