pattygreen

His full name–as by now you have probably heard–is Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. Hussein is a Muslim name, which comes from the name of Ali’s son–Hussein Ibn Ali. And Obama is named after his late Kenyan father, the late Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., apparently a Muslim. And while Obama may not identify as a Muslim, that’s not how the Arab and Muslim Streets see it. In Arab culture and under Islamic law, if your father is a Muslim, so are you. And once a Muslim, always a Muslim. You cannot go back. In Islamic eyes, Obama is certainly a Muslim. He may think he’s a Christian, but they do not.

{QUOTE}There are many who are christian who support gay marriage, are pro-choice and who believe in helping the least among us. I am one of them and you are in no position to judge whether I am a christian by your definition or not (and don't say it's God's definition because I can read the bible too, and come to my OWN interpretations/conclusions, just as you have). I believe as well, in helping the least among us. I don't believe in stealing from the rich to give to the poor, though. I believe that each individual should do for the poor as they are led by 'God' to do, not the 'government'. Also, I am not judging your faith. If you say you are a christian, then you are. That is between you and God. All I know is that anyone who says that they are a follower of Christ needs to be in obedience to him and what he says.

Christians who support gay marriage and abortions are christians who have not read their bible and what God says about those issues. You can be a christian (a believer in Jesus), yet be wrong on your stand on an issue. It doesn't mean that God does not allow you into heaven when you die, it just means that you are wrong about what God says about that issue. There are many denominations of Christianity for that reason, but there are black and whites in the bible that have no gray area. Abortion and Gay marriage and stealing, among other issues, are those black and white issues that can not be disputed amongst believers. God said so and that's that! There is no other interpretation for those issues. Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them" 1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

This comes from their website. I just copied and pasted. My point is highlighted in red. Center History When the Annenberg Public Policy Center (APPC) was established in 1993, its founders, Ambassadors Walter and Leonore Annenberg, sought to increase the impact of the scholarship produced at Penn’s Annenberg School for Communication, the Policy Center’s home. It was their hope that the APPC would apply its knowledge about communication to improve the well-being of those in the U.S. and throughout the globe. In the subsequent years, APPC research has been put to use in studies of adolescent health, HIV and AIDS, media content analysis and political civility. Funding for APPC comes through an endowment established by the Annenberg Foundation, as well as the generous support of federal agencies and foundations. APPC projects are overseen by a staff of 54 people.

Obama Spokesman Robert Gibbs Issued A Statement Explaining That "Senator Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, Was Not Raised As A Muslim, And Is A Committed Christian." "Obama's campaign aides have emphasized his strong Christian beliefs and downplayed any Islamic connection. The Illinois senator was raised 'in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother,’ his chief spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said in a statement in January after false reports began circulating that Obama had attended a radical madrasa, or Koranic school, as a child. 'To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago,’ Gibbs' Jan. 24 statement said." [Los Angeles Times, 3/16/07] Factcheck has also issued that statement, and since you believe everything they say to be factual, then it's true. He has claimed to have NEVER been a Muslim. LIE! He may 'say' That he is a Christian, and that's great if he truly is. But the Lord tells us that by a man's fruit you shall know him. Obama is Prochoice and all for Gay marriages and he doesn't mind at all the taking of money from the rich and giving it to the poor.(thievery) These 3 issues are contrary beliefs to what God deems right and good.

Our Mission We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding. FactCheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels. The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation. Factcheck can write ANYTHING they choose to write as their statement of 'mission'. But in FACT .... "When the government is the one generously supporting you financially, I don't believe a "fact" they come up with!!!!!!

I'll be back Sunday. I'm going on my church's woman's retreat in sturbridge, Mass. Talk to you then. Bye.

I don't care whether Obama is Muslim or Catholic or whatever. What's not right is his deceitfulness about it. I call that lying.

Was Obama Ever a Muslim? "I've always been a Christian," said Obama, focusing on his own personal lack of practice of Islam as a child to deny any connection to Islam. But Muslims do not see practice as key. For them, that he was born to a line of Muslim males makes him born a Muslim. Further, all children born with an Arabic name based on the H-S-N trilateral root (Hussein, Hassan, and others) can be assumed to be Muslim, so they will understand Obama's full name, Barack Hussein Obama, to proclaim him a born Muslim. More: family and friends considered him as a child to be Muslim. In "Obama Debunks Claim About Islamic School," Nedra Pickler of the Associated Press wrote on January 24, 2007, that Obama's mother, divorced from Obama's father, married a man from Indonesia named Lolo Soetoro, and the family relocated to the country from 1967-71. At first, Obama attended the Catholic school, Fransiskus Assisis, where documents showed he enrolled as a Muslim, the religion of his stepfather. The document required that each student choose one of five state-sanctioned religions when registering – Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic or Protestant. Asked about this, Obama communications director Robert Gibbs responded by indicating to Pickler that he wasn't sure why the document had Obama listed as a Muslim. "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim." Two months later, Paul Watson of the Los Angeles Times (available online in a Baltimore Sun reprint) reported that the Obama campaign had retreated from that absolute statement and instead issued a more nuanced one: "Obama has never been a practicing Muslim." The Times looked into the matter further and learned more about his Indonesian interlude: His former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade-school teacher as childhood friends, say Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended. That registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religious class.

There are nuts everywhere, and you can't put an end to the protesting of the American people about the things that they are upset about in Washington because there might be a mentally unbalanced somebody out there. There were crazy democratic liberals protesting during the time of Bush's reign and Clintons reign as well, but noone believed they were ALL Timothy Mcveigh's or part of radical militias. Get over it Nancy.:scared2:

I agree with Plain on the point that if the American voters were all for this bill, it would have been passed already. But because they aren't it's a battle for Congress. They know that their jobs are at stake if they pass it. The public will be in an uproar. They will make sure they get off their seats and get out to vote if they never did before.

You are talking to 'me', not 'everyone else'. I have never been on LBT praising Bush, so I'm not suddenly concerned about what Obama is doing.Therefore, no highlighting of any hypocrisy is necessary. The peoples outrage over what Obama is doing IS genuine. When someone promises that they are going to Change things for the better, and that Change isn't for the better, but worse, it can outrage you. " But, HE PRIOMISED!!!!!" They say. He said he would stop the incessive spending, and the secrecy and deceit inn Washington.

Are we talking about Bush? Cause I thought we were talking about Obama. Oh yeah, liberals, when they can't respond to your points on our new President, feel the need to bring up what the past president did. I don't care about Bush. he's not in the office any longer. I only want to talk about what is relevent to the here and now. Obama. Just because your ex boss at work did alot of wrong while she employed you, doesn't mean you can blame your new boss for what she's doing on the job now.

Why don't we take just one thing at a time in my post and get to the root of it, okay? He said He was NEVER a Muslim. Never means just that. Never. Mind you, I am not accusing him of something wrong by being a muslim, it's the 'hiding' or 'concealing' of the fact which is wrong. You know, the lying. Yet, many, many websites speak of his Muslim upbringing. Here's just one. Barack Obama's Muslim Childhood :: Daniel Pipes Google was Obama ever a Muslim? See what you get.

Let me get this straight......we're trying to pass a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president that also hasn't read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke. What the heck could possibly go wrong?

The psalm you pointed out (109)is a psalm about a man who loves God and is appealing to him to deliver him from false accusers. It has nothing at all to do with asking God to kill an enemy of his. The person who chose to use verse 8 out of that chapter chose ONLY that verse, because it was a fitting sentence for what he wanted to portray, which was : May Obamas days be few and may another president get reelected when his 1st term is finally over. The verse after it had nothing to do with what he was trying to portray, so looking it up and 'adding' it to his verse was 'digging ', IMO, to find some other motive that would make him look evil. Oh brother! The bowing down and the fly thing you talked about are deffinitely petty, to say the least, but the rest of the facts I posted are pretty SERIOUS. And, they are not so much "criticizms" like you say, as they are "matter of facts". His past and present associations are documented and proven, his own books and statements in them can be read. Everything I posted there can be verified. One fact of itself is probably nothing, but when you put them ALL together, you end up with a man with a socialistic, Marxist agenda who sat under an Anti- American pastor's teachings for 20 years and wouldn't put his hand over his heart at the singing of the National anthem or wear a flag lapel pin until there was a public outcry!

A friend sent me this. It's quite lengthy, but an eye-opener. Please read. Really now, Did it Matter? The Fundamental Transformation of America When Obama wrote a book and said he was mentored as a youth by Frank, (Frank Marshall Davis) an avowed Communist, people said it didn't matter. When it was discovered that his grandparents, were strong socialist, sent Obama's mother to a socialist school, introduced Frank Marshall Davis to young Obama, People said it didn't matter. When people found out that he was enrolled as a Muslim child in school and his father and step father were both Muslims, people said it didn't matter. When he wrote in another book he authored “I will stand with them (Muslims) should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” people said it didn't matter. When he admittedly, in his book, said he chose Marxist friends and professors in college, people said it didn't matter. When he traveled to Pakistan , after college on an unknown national passport, people said it didn't matter. When he sought the endorsement of the Marxist party in 1996 as he ran for the Illinois Senate, people said it doesn't matter. When he sat in a Chicago Church for twenty years and listened to a preacher spew hatred for America and preach black liberation theology, people said it didn't matter. When an independent Washington organization, that tracks senate voting records, gave him the distinctive title as the "most liberal senator", people said it didn't matter. When the Palestinians in Gaza , set up a fund raising telethon to raise money for his election campaign, people said it didn't matter. When his voting record supported gun control, people said it didn't matter. When he refused to disclose who donated money to his election campaign, as other candidates had done, people said it didn't matter. When he received endorsements from people like Louis Farrakhan and Mummar Kadaffi and Hugo Chavez, people said it didn't matter. When it was pointed out that he was a total, newcomer and had absolutely no experience at anything except community organizing, people said it didn't matter. When he chose friends and acquaintances such as Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn who were revolutionary radicals, people said it didn't matter. When his voting record in the Illinois senate and in the U.S. Senate came into question, people said it didn't matter. When he refused to wear a flag, lapel pin and did so only after a public outcry, people said it didn't matter. When people started treating him as a Messiah and children in schools were taught to sing his praises, people said it didn't matter. When he stood with his hands over his groin area for the playing of the National Anthem and Pledge of Allegiance, people said it didn't matter. When he surrounded himself in the White house with advisors who were pro gun control, pro abortion, pro homosexual marriage and wanting to curtail freedom of speech to silence the opposition people said it didn't matter. When he aired his views on abortion, homosexuality and a host of other issues, people said it didn't matter. When he said he favors sex education in Kindergarten, including homosexual indoctrination, people said it didn't matter. When his background was either scrubbed or hidden and nothing could be found about him, people said it didn't matter. When the place of his birth was called into question, and he refused to produce a birth certificate, people said it didn't matter. When he had an association in Chicago with Tony Rezco, a man of questionable character, who is now in prison and had helped Obama to a sweet deal on the purchase of his home, people said it didn't matter. When it became known that George Soros, a multi-billionaire Marxist, spent a ton of money to get him elected, people said it didn't matter. When he started appointing czars that were radicals, revolutionaries, and even avowed Marxist/Communist, people said it didn't matter. When he stood before the nation and told us that his intentions were to "fundamentally transform this nation" into something else, people said it didn't matter. When it became known that he had trained ACORN workers in Chicago and served as an attorney for ACORN, people said it didn't matter. When he appointed a cabinet members and several advisors who were tax cheats and socialist, people said it didn't matter. When he appointed a science czar, John Holdren, who believes in forced abortions, mass sterilizations and seizing babies from teen mothers, people said it didn't matter. When he appointed Cass Sunstein as regulatory czar and he believes in "Explicit Consent", harvesting human organs with out family consent, and to allow animals to be represented in court, while banning all hunting, people said it didn't matter. When he appointed Kevin Jennings, a homosexual, and organizer of a group called gay, lesbian, straight, Education network, as safe school czar and it became known that he had a history of bad advice to teenagers, people said it didn't matter. When he appointed Mark Lloyd as diversity czar and he believed in curtailing free speech, taking from one and giving to another to spread the wealth and admires Hugo Chavez, people said it didn't matter. When Valerie Jarrett was selected as Obama's senior White House advisor and she is an avowed Socialist, people said it didn't matter. When Anita Dunn, White House Communications director said Mao Tse Tung was her favorite philosopher and the person she turned to most for inspiration, people said it didn't matter. When he appointed Carol Browner as global warming czar, and she is a well known socialist working on Cap and trade as the nations largest tax, people said it doesn't matter. When he appointed Van Jones, an ex-con and avowed Communist as green energy czar, who since had to resign when this was made known, people said it didn't matter. When Tom Daschle, Obama's pick for health and human services secretary could not be confirmed, because he was a tax cheat, people said it didn't matter. When as president of the United States , he bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, people said it didn't matter. When he traveled around the world criticizing America and never once talking of her greatness, people said it didn't matter. When his actions concerning the middle-east seemed to support the Palestinians over Israel , our long time friend, People said it doesn't matter. When he took American tax dollars to resettle thousands of Palestinians from Gaza to the United States , people said it doesn't matter. When he upset the Europeans by removing plans for a missile defense system against the Russians, People said it doesn't matter. When he played politics in Afghanistan by not sending troops the Field Commanders said we had to have to win, people said it didn't matter. When he started spending us into a debt that was so big we could not pay it off, people said it didn't matter. When he took a huge spending bill under the guise of stimulus and used it to pay off organizations, unions and individuals that got him elected, people said it didn't matter. When he took over insurance companies, car companies, banks, etc. people said it didn't matter. When he took away student loans from the banks and put it through the government, people said it didn't matter. When he designed plans to take over the health care system and put it under government control, people said it didn't matter. When he set into motion a plan to take over the control of all energy in the United States through Cap and Trade, people said it didn't matter. When he finally completed his transformation of America into a Socialist State , people finally woke up........ but it was too late. Any one of these things, in and of themselves does not really matter. But.... when you add them up one by one you get a phenomenal score that points to the fact that our Obama is determined to make America over into a Marxist/Socialist society. All of the items in the preceding paragraphs have been put into place. All can be documented very easily. Before you disavow this, do an internet search. The last paragraph alone is not yet cast in stone. You and I will write that paragraph. Will it read as above or will it be a more happy ending for most of America ? Personally, I like happy endings. If you are an Obama Supporter, please do not be angry with me because I think your president is a socialist but there are too many facts supporting this. If you seek the truth you will be richer for it. Don't just belittle the opposition. Search for the truth. I did. Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Constitutionalist, Libertarians and what have you, we all need to pull together. We all must pull together or watch the demise of a society that we all love and cherish. If you are a religious person, pray for our nation. Never before in the history of America have we been confronted with problems so huge that the very existence of our country is in jeopardy. Don't rely on most television news and what you read in the newspapers for the truth. Search the internet. Yes, there is a lot of bad information, lies and distortions there too but you are smart enough to spot the fallacies. Newspapers are a dying breed. They are currently seeking a bailout from the government. Do you really think they are about to print the truth? Obama praises all the television news networks except Fox who he has waged war against. There must be a reason. He does not call them down on any specifics, just a general battle against them. If they lie, he should call them out on it but he doesn't. Please, find the truth, it will set you free. Our biggest enemy is not China , Russia , Iran ; no, our biggest enemy is a contingent of politicians in Washington DC .

85% of Americans like their HC coverage. Why are we going to overhaul a good thing going, and spend trillions of dollars doing it? It has been proven that there are only 12 million people (for real, without exageration) who are without ins. We can insure them for less than the cost of this massive HC overhaul planned by Pelosi and her followers. Within 31 years, this country will be out of money. Gone! None left! With HC, Cap and Trade, business and job killing proposals moving dramatically to the left, we are being financially drained. Once this is passed it will never be repealed. Republicans gave Congress over 12 different HC reform bills that were tossed by them. It's not about reform, it's about governmment control and greed for their own pockets.

We CAN afford to. Take those 30 million or so who don't have insurance, and purchase it for them. That would be a HECK of a lot cheaper than the HC public option they are planning! (And it won't infringe on our freedoms) I am not against HC reform and insuring those without it. Let me say it again! I am NOT against HC reform and insuring those without it. We already do that as a country. I AM AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT BEING IN THE HEALTH CARE INSURANCE BUSINESS, AND HAVING THE SAY OVER MY HEALTH CARE!!!!!!!! What don't you get about that? I don't want the government of the USA to have a say in my health decisions or to be the ONLY HC choice. That is Socialism! With the public option, that will be our fate!

Just a thought. If you get fined for not having insurance, ($250.) what's to keep people from buying it until they have an illness since pre existing conditions can't be denied? Young, healthy people would rather purchase it if and when they need it and pay a small fine than pay their wasted premiums every week.

Obama signed the American Recovery and and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) which over the next few years more than 500 billion will be dispursed as grants, loans and contracts to state and local governments, agencies, unions, universities, businesses and non-profits. It's founded on the notion that during a recession, government should go on a buying binge to compensate for falling consumer spending. That doesn't boost the standard of living, it just redistributes it. minus the share it spends on the bureaucracy that collects and spends our tax dollars. The pie is sliced differently, but its not any bigger, in fact it's smaller. Federal figures show that to save 7,551 jobs where I live in CT, D.C. shipped out $1.7 billion worth of 'awards' to us. Yet, like the rest of the nation, Ct continues to lose jobs. More than 35,000 since the ARRA passed. Here's another interesting note. Hartford received 7 out of every 10 stimulus related jobs, and you know who works in the capitol city. Feds. All this 'stimulation is being charged to the nationa's credit card, and needs to be repaid. Oh well, That's a problem for others to worry about. The politicians are too busy doling checks to their friends on the public payroll! (reworded and shortened by me, from a newspaper editoral by D. Dowd)

The HC bill is obscure on many of its mandates and those who have closely scrutinized its contents have issued warnings that our freedoms would be curtailed. For example, warnings have been issued about a provision in the bill that would produce visits by federal agents to the homes of families to determine whether the children are being raised properly. If they were sooooo concerned about the people and helping them to understand better exactly what's in the bill, then they would simplify and clarify its contents for us. 2000 pages!!! 100's of amendments to it!!! Total confusion unless you're an expert attorney. What kind of hogwash is that? They know exactly what they're doing. They want us confused about what's in it. For if we really knew, we would NEVER even let it get passed the front door. If I'm wrong about their deceitfulness, then they can prove me wrong. Clarify the bill in simple readable wording, shorten it, and tell us who wrote it, then give us time to read it by posting it online. Obama has campaigned on openess and honesty to the American people, so he should man up and keep his word. I'm sure you will have an excuse for the complicated, mish mass of the misunderstood contents of the HC bill and Obama's reasons for making it so confusing to even lawyers, so I wait to hear it.

Right on. People do not see where this could end up if passed through the Senate. Obama promises that you can keep your own insurance and doctor if you choose to. He's right. If the bill passes, you can keep them, BUT, (and he fails to tell you this part) it will be short lived. After a while, everyone, people and busineses alike, will choose the cheaper, not for profit, insurance, for that reason, which in turn will push all the other ins. companies out of business. When their numbers head for the public option, they will have to raise thier premiums to keep afloat and it wont take long for the whole nation to be on the government plan. What choice is that for us?

This is adebate on politics, we're supposed to talk here.