pattygreen

Most people just don't understand what it is to be Born Agian. Therefore, they may choose to get annoyed over learning more about them. I was, and am, born again. Everyone that God created can be born twice. First, they are born physically, from their mom's womb. Then, if they choose to be a part of God's family and ask Jesus to be their Savior, they will be born again, spiritually. (thus the nick name 'born again')This spiritual re-birth is an eye opener for people. God actually takes the scales from your eyes and the plugs from your ears, so to speak, and gives you the ability to understand spiritual truths. The Holy Spirit of God comes to dwell within the believer and guides them through life. God helps you to make decisions, helps you with every problem, and He becomes a personal friend. He loves you and desires for everyone to know Him in this way. It is His hope that you will all seek after this relationship with Him. The Day I became Born Again was the most important day in my life! I don't care if the world makes fun of me for it. I chalk it up to their lack of understanding, because until you have been born again, you will not know the love of God. Also, try to explain to the baby in the womb what it's like outside the womb. It would be hard to explain all the colors because he has only experienced gray. It would be hard to explain all the air and the breaths that he will take, cause he has only experienced Water. It would be hard for him to understand communication, and activities, etc., for all he has experienced is sleeping and darkness. This is how I feel about unbelievers who are not Born Again, yet. They just can not fathom it, so I take no offense at being made fun of. And, this is why Born Againers want others to know about God, and sometimes seem pushy. They want you to experience a relationship with your Creator as well. They only have your best interest in their heart, so maybe you shouldn't be so hard on them.

There remains one and only one type of cause that has shown itself able to create functional information like we find in cells, books and software programs—intelligent design. It seems to me that rather than creating “artificial life,” what they did was figure out how to plagiarize the intelligent designer’s programming.

Actually, It's the love of money that's the root of all evil, not money. Anyway, my advice to you is to look for a relationship with your Creator and work at getting to know Him. Don't discredit God because of all the "born againers" that you know who are hypocrites. When my Pastor was a child growing up in a Christian home and attending church every Sunday, he had a talk with his dad and said, "Dad, I don't want to go to Church with all those hypocrites!". He said to his son, "That's okay son, you can stay home and go to Hell with them." Now, of course you don't go to Hell for not attending church, or for being a hypocrite for that matter. That's not the lesson he was trying to convey. He was trying to tell his son that he should do the things that God desires for him to do, and he should have a personal relationship with Him because He's his Father and he loves you and you love him. You can't control what all God's other children are doing, you can only control what you do.:confused:

I agree with free will to follow or not follow the laws. Every person has the free will to make their own choices in life, but they will have to suffer the consequences for them, If they do right, the consequences should be favorable, if they do wrong, the consequences will be unfavorable. Just because God gives us a free will, that doesn't mean he is giving us the freedom to do anything we desire. He is the one who hands out the consequences. Just like a parent with a child. If the rule in the house is bed at 9, and you stay up till 11, you will have a consequence to deal with. Mayber no phone usage for a week, or grounded to the house, etc.

Most liberals, who deplor the slaughter of baby seals, believe the slaughter of baby humans is not only morally justified, but the prevention of it, if they want the murders to end, should be financed by taxpayers as well as the abortions that doctors perform for the murderers. Fundamentalists believe that children are a gift from God. Psalm 127:3 says, "Lo, Children are an heritage of the Lord..." Ruth 4:13 says, "...the Lord gave her conception, and she bear a son." Now, if God gives a life, is it not dangerous to abort that life? Is it not obvious that God stands to the right of the abortion issue? The U.S. Supreme court, in 1973 made abortions legal, although no court can make something that is morally wrong, legally right in the sight of God. The court said that the baby does not have rights, although it has said that criminals, Communists and moral cripples do have rights! How did they get around the 14th ammendment that says "no state shall...deprive any person...the equal protection of the laws."? Easy! They proclaimed unborn babies as "non-persons," reminiscent of the 1857 Dred Scott Decision that proclaimed blacks were not "persons". Blacks could be personally bought, sold, beaten or killed by their owners. The 14th ammendment corrected that barbarism. We need another ammnedment to correct the barbarism of the 1973 decision and recognize unborn babies as "persons" with a right to life. IMO, people who have no problem hurting babies in the womb are no better than those who felt it was their choice at the time to hurt their slaves. "They weren't "persons" after all." :rolleyes:

When you ask a liberal why he voted for a democrat, he will give you these answers: 1. I voted Democrat because I believe oil companies' profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn't. 2. I voted Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would. 3. I voted Democrat because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it. 4. I voted Democrat because I'm way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves. 5. I voted Democrat because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius. 6. I voted Democrat because I want to keep all death row inmates alive -- and living in conditions better than 75% of the rest of humanity. 7. I voted Democrat because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits. 8. I voted Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Democrats see fit. 9. I voted Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would never get their agendas past the voters.

Religion? I didn't say religion. I said God's word will one day be the law of the land. When He returns. And not just this land of America, but the whole earth. Then there will be no more 'constitution' to follow. Just God's word.

{quote} If that is the case and free birth control would say reduce unwanted pregnancies by 50% and abortions by 25% wouldn't you support that? And if not, why not? No. Just as I don't support the government paying for you to have a new home, I don't support the government giving away free contraceptives. I don't think the government should give ANYTHING to anybody. People should work for their living. I am okay with SOME government assistance for a time to give a hand up to someone in desperate need, but never a hand out that fosters dependency on them. I don't believe the gov. should pay for half the crap they fund. Be personally responsible why don't ya?! Is there anything else you want the rest of America to pay for for you? How about your hair appointments. After all, you can't find a decent job if you don't look your best.

One day, soon coming, the law of the land will be God's word. "Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." So, since this will one day be inevitable, why not bow your knee now?

ALL Christians are hypocrites. It's not possible for them to not be, cause no one can be good. No one can be righteous, thus our need for Jesus. So, stop worrying about the hypocrites, and YOU do the right thing. If you say that it is wrong to be a Christian cause they never do as they say, I ask you, is the Christian a hypoocrite?, or is he a sinner, saved by God's grace? Do you think that once you become born again you become perfect? You can't sin? This isn't true. It is hard for Christians to be good examples for God, because we can't be good. All we can do is try our best and ask God to help us to not sin. Unbelievers should not judge whether Christianity is true by the actions of it's followers. The sinfulness of man does not make God any less real, it only reinforces our need for Him.

Yes, God is forgiving. Why do you think it is so important to make Jesus your Savior before your life ends on this earth? Cause no one can go through this life without sinning. Just a point here: God forgives those that are His. In other words, if you're not a member of His family before your time is up here, you will not be forgiven for your wrongs in life. You are trusting in your good deeds to save you and they will not be good enough. BTW, God is not an "I'm gonna get you" God. He is very loving and caring. He doesn't want anyone to perish. He is also just. And he must give us the punishment we deserve for our sins. Those who sin deserve death. Those who accept Jesus' sacrifice for their sins will receive life. Eternal life.

If you were standing on your sidewalk and saw a man walk by and threaten the life of a 6 year old child next door, would you call the police? Step in and protect him? Do something? If you answer yes, it's because you SHOULD! Just as preventing harm to that child is everyone's business, so is preventing abortion, which is death to a child just as sure as it is to that 6 year old.

And they have that right, by all means. I like this analogy. You may choose to drive your car off a bridge. That's your choice. Just make sure there aren't any passengers in the vehicle, cause it may not be what they would choose.

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That's how we do things here in America. We make laws to protect others and ourselves. When they get broken, we give consequences. These consequences are given to deter people from breaking the law. If abortion were illegal, which it should be, and which is what we are talking about here, then killing babies would be against the law and consequences for those who break the law would be given out.

I am not trying to tell you what to believe. I feel the same way as you do. Go ahead and do what you like. Live any way you please. I do not have to answer to God for what you do, only what I do. But, I will have to answer to God for my choices and decisions in life. One of them is who I vote for and if they stand on God's principles or not. Would God be pleased with me if I voted for a person who is pro choice? I don't believe He would be. He might tell me, "Patty, you know that I abhor the taking of life by man's hand, I gave my words to you so that you would know what my will is. Why would you vote for someone who would allow the laws in your country to accept that wrong doing?" (or) He might tell me, "Patty, you know how I feel about the sin of homosexuality, because I gave you my words so that you would know what my will is. Why would you vote for someone who would change the definition of the covenant that I set up between a man and a woman, called marriage, and thereby allow that sin to become an acceptable practice in society?" You see, I, and every Christian out there, believe that we will have to answer to God for our choices in this life. I am not one to only worry about the here and now. I believe in eternal life that lasts forever after this one.

I come across as a wingnut? Now I've heard everything!

Gee.... Did I say that women "deserve" to die? WOW!!!! I believe I said "suffer the consequence". A drug user, who uses drugs illegally and breaks the law, just happens to overdose and die while doing his illegal thing. Does this mean that he deserves to die? No. But that's the consequence. If he wasn't doing anything illegal, he would not have died. A woman who gives herself an abortion, because the law says that abortions are illegal, doesn't deserve to die, but that may be the consequence for breaking the law. The woman is not the only one who died. The life within her was taken as well by her act of disobedience to the law.

All of the above verses tell us God considers us to be human before we are born, but they don't answer the question of when we actually become so. I propose there is a way to know what God considers the latest point in development at which we must consider a fetus to be a living human. Even before God gave Moses the law, when He gave Noah and his family all the animals for food (in addition to the plants), He told them, "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood" (Genesis 9:4). At the same time, God gave the law and penalty for murder (described as the shedding of "man's blood"). Therefore, God considers blood to be the basis for life and the shedding of human blood, which results in death, to be murder. Science tells us that the heart of the human fetus begins to form 18 days after conception. There is a measurable heart beat 21-24 days after conception.Since blood is flowing at this point, it is likely that blood formation begins well before day 21 (I could find no reference for the date at which blood formation begins). Therefore, this represents the latest date at which we must consider the fetus to be human (according to biblical standards), which is only 7-10 days after a women would expect to begin her menses. Most women have cycles that can vary by this amount, and therefore do not discover they are pregnant until after this point. For all practical purposes, from a biblical perspective, abortion at any point must be considered murder by Bible-believing Christians.

Yes, I can see that you are correct about the life for life verse. I will agree it was the man's life for the woman's life. But, even so, This does not change the fact that God deems the life that is in the womb, a LIFE. Why would God require a fine for the miscarriage if the fetus were just a blob and meant nothing? I do not need to use that scripture alone. There are plenty of scriptures that tell us that God is involved in our creation from the womb: "Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb? (Job 31:15) Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb; Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother's breasts. Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother's womb. (Psalm 22:9-10) For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Thy works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from Thee, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. (Psalm 139:13-16) Thus says the LORD who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you, `Do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen. (Isaiah 44:2) Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone, (Isaiah 44:24) In addition, there are a number of great men of God (and Jesus) who were called to be God's servants from the womb: Samson: Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, "A man of God came to me and his appearance was like the appearance of the angel of God, very awesome. And I did not ask him where he came from, nor did he tell me his name. "But he said to me, `Behold, you shall conceive and give birth to a son, and now you shall not drink wine or strong drink nor eat any unclean thing, for the boy shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb to the day of his death.'" (Judges 13:6-7, see also Judges 16:17) Jesus (prophecy): Listen to Me, O islands, And pay attention, you peoples from afar. The LORD called Me from the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me. ( Isaiah 49:1) And now says the LORD, who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, in order that Israel might be gathered to Him (For I am honored in the sight of the LORD, And My God is My strength), ( Isaiah 49:5) Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb; Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother's breasts. Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother's womb. ( Psalm 22:9-10) Jeremiah: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5) John the Baptist: "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother's womb." (Luke 1:15) Paul: But when He who had set me apart, even from my mother's womb, and called me through His grace, was pleased (Galatians 1:15) In addition, the Bible tells us the wicked are estranged or enemies of God from the womb: The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth. (Psalm 58:3)

Honey, you ARE wrong. God made all mankind, even those who desire to have sex with the same kind. I do not deny that God made men who are homosexuals. He made ALL mankind. The 'acts' that we perform, whether they be good or bad, are our choices, though. God made men who have sex with men and God made women who have sex with women. It doesn't mean that he approves of what they do. Now, as for who gave us the bible: All I can say about this is that God says that he gave men the words to write through the power of His Holy Spirit. Whether you choose to believe this is up to you. I choose to believe it. I guess, all I can say is, when you die, you shall find out who was right. If you are right, I have lost nothing, for life is over and I rot in the ground. If I am right, then you will have lost much.

{CLEO'S QUOTE}And you religious right anti-abortion hypocrites just want to punish women for having sex and getting pregnant. You arent' interested in reducing the number of abortions. Do you know how stupid that sounds? You don't understand anything about personal responsiblitity, do you? Did it ever occur to you that the "punishment" that people get for having sex and getting pregnant is not a punishment at all. It is a consequence that comes from doing something that they shouldn't have done. If the law says that abortion is illegal, then the CONSEQUENCE (not punishment) of having sex without protection or without a plan for pregnancy should it occur, will be had. The right does not desire for those who get pregnant to suffer the punishment for it, as you say we do. We feel that with wrong doing comes consequences. Just like anything else. You break the law, you get disciplined in some way. How stupid to say that we are not interested in reducing the number of abortions. This is our ultimate goal. To stop the killing of innocent babies. Do you really believe we just want to punish women for having sex, or are you just saying that?