pattygreen

Did you just ignore my story of my aunt, bjean? How tough love can work, and how enableing people keeps them down. If you want to call me 'Noticing',or 'knowing', that she smoked, judgement, then I judged her. I KNOW she chose cigarettes over food. If she didn't have anyone ENABLING her to smoke, by providing food for her, she would HAVE to give them up. For you can't live without the food, but you can live without the cigarettes. I know what it's like to smoke. I did it for 10 years and then quit. So can she. Now, I donate food all the time, and I'm not there to pass it out. I'm sure no one is questioning anyones 'need' for it. And if I was handing it out, I wouldn't be questioning anyones need for it either, but the person receiving it KNOWS that if they gave up their SIN (whatever that may be, cigarettes, purchasing expensive jewelery over feeding your kids, whatever) that the food would be able to go to those who could 'really' use it. Which I am all for. Helping those who need it. I am not 'all for' helping those who 'continue' to live in sin. Like prostitutes. If i gave them assistance, and talked to them about getting a different job, if I took them for a job interview and gave them some decent clothes to wear to it, and showed them a way out, and then told them that if they changed their lifestyle that they could continue to get the programs help, and after 'helping' them they still refused to give up their sin, because the money was too good or whatever, I would stand on my rule. No more help. Enableing people doesn't work. There needs to be some consequences that they must endure for their wrongs. One of the consequences is no further help. Aren't you a parent? If you are then you know that. My sister gave her son $29. a week for allowance and school lunch. $10. was for 5 lunches. On Thurs. all the money was gone. He asked his mom for more money because he was hungry at school and had none. She said "You need to be a better steward of your money, and only spend 1/2 of what I give you each week on yourself." She made him go for 2 days without lunch. He never did that again! It stunk to be hungry at school. Tough love. It's how they learn. Moral of the story is "if you do what's right, usually no problems"

I have a great aunt who has been an alcoholic all her life. Until just recently (3 years ago) Know why she stopped drinking? Because after a lifetime of one family member or friend after another constantly 'Giving" to her, they stopped. We gave her money, we bought her food, we took her for job interviews, we put up with her verbal abuse, we paid her rent at times and I could go on and on about how we all enabled her to continue in her sin of abusing her body with alcohol. she had state ins. she couldn't hold a job for more than a week or two. Fourty years of that! Finally, we chose the tough love approach. No more enabling. No more money for food, no more help with rides, nothing. She had noone to turn to. Even her daughter and son gave up helping her. Simply because she wouldn't help herself. She was dependent on all of us. Once we stopped giving, she HAD to do it herself. She lost her apt, her job, and was even going to live on the street. We allowed it to happen FOR HER SAKE! Do you think we wanted to let our beloved aunt live on the street for that time? Absolutely not. But within one month, she walked into the Hospital and they committed her into rehab. She was hungry and cold. Now, She is in a wonderful community apts. with new friends she has made, hasn't had a drink for 3 years and has a job for the last 2 years. We put up with her drunken abuse for 40 YEARS! and in less than 6 months of disenabling her with our 'help', she started to take care of herself. When you 'help' people they tend to rely on that help and not 'do' for themselves. I am all for helping those who can't help themselves, or for helping people who are "trying" to better themselves and in the meantime need a hand. But I don't condone helping a prostitute who gets an STD because she CHOOSES to have sex with others for a living unless she leaves that profession for an honorable decent one. If she chooses to continue in that lifestyle, why should I have to pay for her medical care? She knew what the consequences of her career could bring. So, out of her own pocket is where her medical treatment should come from.

Bjeans def. of judgement: What one superior person dicides is right or wrong activity of another. My def. of judgement: A final sentence. Now, look at all your definitions of the word that you posted from the dictionary and tell me which one does hers line up with? Mine lines up with #1. And she was more polite you say? She ridiculed me with her definition. Please!

You're right. Sin is sin. I've always said that. All sin is the same in God's eyes. You're right about that also. I have always said that, too. I don't judge anyone, BTW. I only tell others what God has to say on an issue. If you want to say that I am casting a final judgement on their soul, I can't stop you. But I have NEVER told anyone that they would be going to Hell. Only God can make that call. People who don't like what they hear for whatever reason tend to tell the one doing the talking that they are judgmental. It's not that they are judgmental, it's that they just don't agree with them. And that's okay. We can agree to disagree.

Hey! I may have donated that food and intended it to be for a person who is having financial difficulty. Not for someone who has the finances but chooses to spend her money on 'Other' unnecessary things instead of food! Your definition of judgment is wrong.

[quote name=BJean;} I don't see many people who consider prostitution a sin lobbying for the men's names to be made public and for them to be thrown into jail and prosecuted if they pay for the services of a prostitute. Why is it always the women who have to be punished and not the men? Why it is far more acceptable for men to only be looked down on for going to a prostitute for sex' date=' but the women need to be punished by being prosecuted and jailed?[/quote] If the woman wouldn't give it up, there would be no men going to them. Even so, it is just as wrong for a man to buy a womans body for sex. And just as wrong for a man to prostitute himself.

[quote name=BJean;1227426} There's a difference' date=' for instance, in wanting to legalize prostitution and supporting prostitution. [/quote] Really? What's the difference? To me, if you are ok with legalizing it, you are also accepting of it.

Actually, the story was about a woman caught in adultry, not a prostitute. (John Chapter 8) After Jesus told those who were condemning her to cast the first stone at her if you have never sinned, they all dropped their stones and left. He said noone is condemning you now and neither do I. But he also said "Go now and LEAVE your life of sin." Mary Magdalene was a prostitute that was a friend of Jesus. I believe maybe you are refering to her. Like I've said before, Jesus loves evryone, but hates their sin. After this Mary got to know Jesus, she turned from prostitution.

That's true.

Cyndi, When you have children, you let them play (live) and you watch them and care for them and you allow them to make decisions for themselves. Some consequences for those decisions are good and some not so good, but they learn from being allowed to make their own choices. (Of course if it what they are going to do is clearly written in the families book of rules that it is wrong, then they should obey their parents). When you see them about to harm themselves or others, then you intervene and protect them. Otherwise, you continue to let them play. (live) God is the same way with us. Lapband surgery is not a sinful thing to do IMO because I believe God would allow a person to have surgery to correct bad health. We are just taking care of our bodies. Therfore, he was like that parent who allows his child to play (live). You made a decision to have the LBS and God allowed it. Now your band has eroded and needs to come out. Stuff in life happens. It's not that God had disapproved of the LBS for you and now he's going to make it come out. It's just that it has to come out because of the erosion that 'happened'. So, now you need to make some new decisions. You have many options. Put a new band in, have another kind of WLS or you may even try to do it on your own. Whatever your decision is, if it isn't sinful, I believe God will allow it. I will pray for God to give you peace about your choices and for the surgery you will have. God bless you. patty

Believe me, there are plenty of sites out there where people can find out about other forms of WLS. If they don't get the info here, they will not go without it. It's not selfish. I certainly didn't rely on LBT only while making my decision about WLS. But after I made my decision to choose the LB, I joined this group.

Any answer to any question I gave on this thread was taken from what the bible teaches on the subject. The answers are not my opinions or thoughts on the subect, unless i stated so. They are what God himself teaches in the scripture, and you may believe it or not, or search the scriptures for yourself and find out. Or you may not believe the bible to be true at all. That is certainly up to you. I personally believe that the bible is the only infallible written word of God and therefore, IMO, I believe I have answered them correctly. If you don't agree with my answers to the questions posted, that of course is fine. I'm not posting here to have a debate about it, because the thread starter doesn't want that. I'm just giving what I believe are the answers to some of the questions.

I'm glad I'm not religious either. I can't stand religions. I prefer a relationship. But if you choose not to discuss it with me, then that's up to you. I won't respond to your posts.

I don't believe that suicide = hell. Did your mom ask Jesus to save her from the consequences of her sins? If yes, then she would go to heaven, if no, then not. When Jesus died to take our punishment of death from us, he fogave us for all our sins. The ones in our PAST, the ones in our PRESENT and even our FUTURE sins. The member of that church who told you that was mistaken. This is why it is so important for people to read Gods word for themselves and not listen to mere men in every christian denomination out there. They can make mistakes and say things contrary to scripture. There are many christians who have good hearts, yet give advice that is wrong because they have never taken the time to actually 'read' and study the book. It's a long read and will take much time to get through it all. They tell people what they believe is in there and not what actually is.

The bible tells us that God created Adam and Eve. It doesn't state whether they were the only people he created. So, if he created others, then they had children for Adam and Eves children to marry. But even if they were the only 2 created, God would have had to permit siblings to marry in the beginning for procreation purposes. If a murderer repents and is in Heaven will he meet up with his victim?......Only if his victim repents for his or her sins and also asked Jesus to save them. It wont be awkward because everyone that will be in Heaven understands more fully then 'that ALL mankind sins and is in need of the savior.' In heaven there will only be love for each other, no hatred or animosity. What if I get to heaven and a loved one doesn't, will I be able to see him or visit him in hell?..... No. This is God's wonderful grace to all mankind who gets to dwell with him in Heaven: He wipes away every tear and even the memory of your loved ones who are in hell. We shall all cry as in mourning for those who chose not to accept Jesus as their savior. But afterwards (and that's a long story in itself) we will no longer cry. How can we be expected to live in Heaven for all eternity in happiness with our Father if we are continuously thinking about the fact that others are separted from this wonderful place and Gods love? He doesn't expect that. He will erase from our memories those who are lost.

When a man dies, his soul and spirit is separated from the body and his body is laid in the grave, but his spirit is not bodiless, it has what Paul calls its "Psychical" or "soulish" body. This may be illustrated by a peach. A peach is a trinity. It is composed of the flesh of the peach, the stone, and the kernel. Let the flesh correspond to the body of man, the stone to the soul, and the kernel to the spirit. Remove the flesh from the peach and the kernel still has a body, the stone. So, when a mans body is separated from his soul and spirit at death, the spirit is not bodiless, it still has its 'soulish' body. As this 'soulish body can hear and speak and think and feel, it must have some tangible form. It is not a ghostlike structure. There are doubtless limitations in its use, or there would be no need for it to recover its physical body at the ressurection. See the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16. Every spirit and soul that trusted in Christ for their salvation goes directly to God at their time of death, where they will then enter a place called Paradise to await the judgement day when it will be time for the resurrection of their new bodies and then they will be allowed to enter into their eternal home, called Heaven. Those that didn't trust in Christ will go to a holding place called Hades where they await the judgment day also. They, too, will get new bodies. But since they didn't trust in Jesus to save them from their sins, they will be separated from God for all eternity in a place called Hell. As soul and spirit are impervious to flames, this explains how the wicked, after being disembodied again by the 'second death' as it's called, can exist forever in literal fire. So, the souls are not drifting around, haunting us or hanging with their remains. I'm not sure about watching us. The scripture doesn't answer that one. I believe those that are saved are okay, and know where they are and are glad they listened to God drawing them to him with his love and I'm sure they know what awaits them. But those that weren't saved, I believe understand what awaits them also. An eternal separation from God who created them. If you make it to paradise, you can not visit earthlings, and the souls and spirits of mankind can not watch over us. God does that. Souls are not shared. Everyone has their own. They are conscious and as aware as you are at this moment.There is no 2nd chance after death. No purgatory, no reincarnation. Why? Because God gives every human being an opportunity to ponder the afterlife and make a choice. Do you choose to belive he is who he says he is or do you choose to reject him?

God doesn't intervene in the consequences of life unless someone prays for the situation and even then he knows what's best for all involved and answers our prayers according to his will. (just like a parent with a child)

Worms don't go to heaven for they have no spirit like humans do. Why bother praying?...... Because prayer changes things and because "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." James 5:16 Science and scripture always mesh. There is never a contradiction. For instance, the bible states in Genesis 1:1 that "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth." In Genesis 1:2 (the next verse) He states "And NOW the Earth was formless and empty." It doesn't tell us when he created the earth, it just says that it was in the beginning. So, He created the earth and NOW it's empty. Something new for him to do on the earth. Genesis 1:2 also states that "darkness was over the surface of the deep and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." That tells me that whatever was on this earth before Adam and Eve were created was destroyed by Water. Then, "Let there be light" etc., etc. Then he creates mankind. (6000 years ago or so) Science claims the earth is millions of years old, so what? The bible doesn't dispute that. Man OTOH has only been around for about 6000 years or so. Can grace ever be lost?...... Yes, if you choose to return the gift of grace God gave you you can lose it by handing it back. Are all sins equal?........ Not to man. But to God it only takes one sin to be excluded from Heaven, and since no one can live a life without sinning, no one can enter. (unless of course they choose to ask Jesus to allow his sacrifice on the cross to include them) Noah's Ark? Tas Walker's Biblical Geology - How did Noah fit all the animals on the Ark?

I voted 'NO'. Thus the name 'LAPBAND' talk.

God planned for children to be born through the birth canal. It is the natural way and the best way. But if there is an emergency and for some reason having the baby that way will cause harm to the mother or the child, then of course a C- section is the answer.

What does a mother say to her child when they ask her what kind of Job she does? "Oh, honey, I have sex with many different men all day long, and they pay me for it. Don't you want to grow up to be just like me?" How could she do that to her children? Set such a horrible example for them. It would be better to get on welfare or to live in a shelter if needed than to have your children find out how she makes the money to feed them. I would rather my child went without shoes or toys or anything than to let him or her grow up with such an immoral example of a parent. Children can understand poverty, and are accepting of it, but sexual immorality is another thing! That can scar a child for life. And Kat, I find it hard to believe that you would be for it since you are so protective of children and all. go figure.

Here in CT the minimum wage is $8.00/hr. If we can live on it here where everything else is priced higher than any other state in the nation, then you can live on your minimum wage in your state. And if your walmart only gives you 28 hrs. a week, then work there and at mcDonalds. Noone said you'd be well off, but many people just 'get by' in life. It beats prostituting your body. You're right when you say the bible doesn't support people sitting back and expecting to be cared for. AND the bible also doesn't support the sexual sin of prostitution! It's funny how you will accept one thing the bible tells you, but not the other. Could it be because you agree with the one and not with the other? If we pick and choose the things we wish to live by in scripture, instead of living by ALL of it, we end up with differing views on what's right and what's wrong. BTW, nowhere in the bible does it state that "the Lord helps those who help themselves."

Those prostitutes that have mental problems or are drug addicted certainly can't help themselves. They need someone to intervene in their lives to get them into rehab. I'm speaking of the prostitutes who do it for a living simply because they can make alot of money quickly. They can afford to pay for their own STD medical care, but they work under the table and usually don't have medical insurance because there is no employer to provide it. The whole point that I am trying to make is this:Enabling people is not the answer. When a person is not living right, they don't deserve to receive a handout, or to have the laws work in their favor. Another thought: You've heard of the Craigs list killer? He would meet the women that posted their bodies for sale on craigs list because it was free advertising for their prostitution. They DIED. He KILLED them when they showed up to the hotel room. If these girls weren't committing such an atrocity by selling sex, and abided by God's law which states that sexual relations are to be between a man and a wife only, they would still be alive today. Point is, if you do what's right, there are usually no problems. No death, no STDs, no AIDS, no unwanted pregnancies. This world would be a better place if everyone lived according to their own creators will for them.

I went back and reread what I wrote here. I didn't mean to say that, and I can see now where you got the idea that I want to deny health care to prostitutes. I would like to change the last sentence to: If they were denied care for STDs and Aids treatment unless they paid for it out of their own pockets, then they just might turn from prostitution.

Who said to deny them medical care? Not me. You ADD an awful lot to what I say. Do you always do that? I want everyone to have medical care. I just don't want to pay for it. Prostitutes usually get sexual diseases and because they are in a profession that is illegal, they work under the table and don't have employers who provide medical insurance. They go to clinics to get care and expect everyone else who is working legitimately to fork the bill for their STDs. That's what I'm talking about.