meganwf

Hello all slow losers, In this group I really have you beat, although I know there are a lot of turtles who have me beat. Anyway, I am just passing my bandiversary with a loss of 15 lbs. I have a different idea about that than most of you though. I never wanted to lose weight fast; I wanted to lose weight without dieting. I don't believe dieting works, and there is a lot of evidence that supports that. So I have never followed any band protocols at all. No liquid phase (well a day or two), no pre-band diet (I went abroad for the band), etc. Now some ppl I am sure would look at my weight loss and they would correctly point out that my method is not a 'recipe for success', but to me that depends on what success IS to ME. I have lost 15 lbs effortlessly, and I would have gained. I no longer feel sick all the time. In the last year, I have re-learned how to eat, at my own pace. Now I chew chew chew and eat slow slow slow. I have started enjoying eating fruit for the first time in years. But this has gone gradually. I get a fill, I take a long time getting used to it, then I get another one. It is like easing into the ocean for a swim for me. I'll move on when I'm good and gol'darned ready! Anyway, I just had fill #5. So in response to some of the comments- fills 1 & 2 had minimal effect, and I didn't wait too long before going on to 3. 3 was where I started having PBs and really had to notice how I was eating. Fill 4 was very small, as I was traveling for work and didn't want to be elsewhere if it was too much. Fill 5 just occurred, and WOW- had to pause after a sip of water to let it go down before the next one. Now I feel like my restriction is PERFECT. I just don't feel hungry very much. I am eating less than I plan to. I am definitely losing; I want to keep it to no more than 1 lbs per week though. Faster than that never feels good. I start getting irritable and light headed and I can't concentrate. So I am trying to keep a fullish meal size so I don't have to add a snack. I really never feel happy eating more than 3 times a day on a regular basis. I don't know if this will help anyone at all- but my feeling is a) relax a little; fills are incredibly important and you won't know if you are 'there' until you get 'there', and it typically take 4-8 fills for most ppl; c) there is a lot of 'conventional wisdom' in the bandster rules, and they should be taken with a grain of salt. Not all of them are true (eg aspirin is not a problem, unless of course you are having acid or other stomach issues). Many of them work for some ppl a lot better then others d) even if you are not where you think you should be yet, doesn't mean you won't get to where you want to go. As long as you don't give up, you still are 'on the way'. e) Most studies of the band show it is in years 2-3 when a lot of the weight loss occurs, after ppl get adjusted and after behavior changes happen. f) 'Life is what happens while you are making other plans'- enjoy the journey, not the destination. g) Some slow losers have very definite medical problems. If you can't lose after good restriction and you know you aren't eating too many calories, see a doctor and demand help. See Vinesqueen's posts on this; she really covers that whole issue very well. h) Walking is useless- what utter BS!! They have just shown that exercise isn't necessary for weight loss; calorie reduction will take care of that by itself. But exercise is good for your health; the more the better. And, a little all day long is better than 20 minutes on a treadmill for longterm health. In any case, 3 miles a day is something to be EXTREMELY proud of - no matter what weight you lose you will live longer and be in much better shape while you are alive!

Wel, I am probably not one who you will relate to. I never had any interest in following the advice or protocol of the American system of lap banding. My basic attitude is that if the lap band can't reduce my hunger then I won't lose weight. I refuse to go through hunger; why? Because all diets have pretty close to 100% failure rate long term. That is, hunger is a bad strategy. If you can't get to a reduced state of appetite, some day you will eat again. And, in the meanwhile, you have gone through a near obsession with food. What will I eat? When? How will it taste? How much can I eat? What will I eat the meal after that? I hate thinking about food. I won't diet if that it makes me care about food all day, all the time. And I was aided and abetted in my strategy by my surgeon, who said from the day I was released from the hospital, 'eat what you want'. No rules- exactly my thinking! I already know I can trust myself to eat only healthy foods, but without a dimininishment in hunger levels, I couldn't get myself to eat the right quantity. Why am I writing this book? I can't help you with your fear and obsession about losing weight on some arbitrary schedule that has nothing to do with your body. But I can reassure you that the lap band does indeed diminish hunger, at least for me, and in a surprisingly natural way. Just had my third fill, and it really the difference is amazing. I am having to add a snack as I am losing too fast (for me). And I HATE snacking. Moral: get a fill, get another, maybe get 5 or more, but fill carefully and gradually and you will get there.

I take my old full sized Vitamins. The fish oil capsule I take whole. It is a soft gel-cap and dissolves very fast. The mulit and the glocosamine I chop up into little pieces every day and swallow in bits. Also, I checked with my surgeon, and he said aspirin was fine. To quote, he said "the band does not in any fundamental way change the nature or functioning of the stomach. Therefore aspirin is fine." 1000 people will now explain that I am completely wrong and will even offer scientific sounding reasons why this is wrong. But you know what? MY surgeon said it's fine. SO I take them when I want to, and so far, not a hint of a problem.

Really nice to see this stuff up here. And nice to see another Keith Olberman fan out there, Tired_Old_Man. Glad to see so many poeple are as outrages and sickened that OUR President and country is now out there promoting torture. I can't believe this is where I grew up in some ways. I don't think Americans have really changed their values, but maybe the TV reporting of what Americans think has. Not sure.

Hello! I am no expert, but I have the SAGB. I looked for any studies comparing them, and most I could find online were out of date. But there were a few more recent ones. They suggest that the SAGB has much lower rates of food intolerance, and a lower rate of slippage. I know it it cosidered 'soft' and 'wide' in comparison to the Inamed band. The European doctors, who have a chocie, are changing over to the SAGB. So other than the fact that it is not yet approved in the US, it looks like the SAGB is the better choice to me.

I am thinking of going to him for my fills.

Just a late addition- I read some studies that showed a dramatic reduction in slippage from 2 things: 1) Slippage rates fell from about 8-10% to about 2% by using the 'pars flaccida' technique when placing the band. This is where the band is situated on the stomach itself. I guess when they started doing banding they were putting it in one place and trial and error lead to an improved placement. I think there are several studies that confirm this. 2) I saw a very small study that showed a 0% rate of slippage using the SAGB instead of the inamed band. I can't remember the time frame though, but I don't think it was long. My surgeon suggested that the SAGB had been improved and now, because it was softer and wider was proving to be superior. It is also supposed to have reduced levels of food intolerance. Of course it is not yet approved here in the USA. That said, I would get a number for his rates of slippage. If it is higher than about 2%, he has a problem that he oculd be addressing. It is suspicious. And, there must be lots of other docs around that will do your surgery if needed...even with the awful insurance! :-)

France is even cheaper than Mexico! I had a great doctor for 4400 Euro for everything- 3 nights in hospital and all the rest...and a great vacation! While I was there, someone told me Belgium is cheaper still, and they have been doing it the longest. I don't know how to find a Belgian doctor, but it can't be that hard.

I am also wondering- maybe the mother just instinctively was afraid about her daughter having surgery, and so said the first thing that came to mind to push her not to get the surgery? Mothers do get a little weird sometimes when they are concerned for their kids. As to the notion in general, I tend to pull out the numbers. I say, look- people can lose about 10% of their bodyweight on a diet, and maybe what? less than 1/4 will still have that weight off in a year. Now let's say you are talking about having to lose maybe 1/2 your body weight- the rates for success at doing that are pretty close to 0%. So why would anyone try something known to have a 0% chance of success, as opposed to something like the band with at least an 80% success rate- where success is losing at least 50% excess weight and keeping it off at least 5 years later?

I just wanted to add some facts that have been missed or misquoted in this thread: 1) the last study on mortality associated with RNY showed 4.6% died within 1 year of the operation. In those 65 and older, that figure was 11.1%. The 'way under 2%' death rate that has been suggested in this thread is fundamentally incorrect. It represents perhaps those that actually die on the table (instead of within 1 year), or perhaps the results of one highly superior surgeon. Overall, the picture is far worse than that. 2) There have been several international studies that show by 5 years out, the weight loss for RNY and GB are within 1-2% of each other. RNY do gain weight back starting in the third year, on average. GB studies I have seen show no weight gain or a very small weight gain by the 7th year. Of course these are average results. Some people do much better on one or the other; some do worse. 3) Gastic bypass is the 'gold standard' ONLY in this country, and our medical system is ONLY ranked around 37 in terms of the world. In other words, if there is a gold standard, we probably don't have it- some country with a much better medical system probably does. (Sorry to those who want to think America could only have the best of everything.) Those coutries that are in the top 10 all hold the band as the gold standard.

I looked into it and decided to give them a pass. Go to their free intro session (once a month) and you hear all about their program. If you are looking for a lot of support (a LOT of support) they have a good program. I found that they insisted on a lot of rules and procedures- at least 18 meetings before surgery of all different types- including several sessions of small group therapy and 2 visits with a psychiatrist- as well as you had to lose weight first (so they could judge your 'committment') and you had to quit smoking if you did. (I don't, but it still pissed me off- it really would be easier for people to quit AFTER when they feel better). I have heard the Brigham & Women's program is a lot more normal/ less demanding, and equally reputable.

Yes it was the SAGB, which I know is larger both in terms of capacity and overall size- the ring itself is wider, so perhaps that explains why it is so much easier to eat quickly. I don't know if the pars flaccida technique itself can be classed as 'gentler', but it definitely does have dramatically reduced rates of slippage. This would give doctors more confidence regarding patient's eating, I suppose. I don't know how many of the American doctors are using this technique. From what I could tell, it is already an internation preferred technique- and has been for a few years anyway, but individual doctors don't always change or aren't always aware.

I go back in forth. In general, caution is a good thing. On the other hand, caution has a cost too- extra time, extra resources, extra doing-without, etc. The trick is to not go too far to either side. Truthfully, some people are terrible at this balancing act, and for them, it is better to have a rule-set they can follow. But then there are some of us who are quite good at it. For example, your instincts kicked right in and said "NO" to black bean soup- so the doctor's advice was good. You listened to yourself, and yourself urged slowness. Mine urged speed. I was intensely satisfied by meat on the fourth day, and felt much better for having eaten it. And a lot of the agony I read on this site is people trying to stick some liquid only diet when their body is telling them very strongly something different- they are ready for more. Most of them would be better served by listening to their own bodies, IMO. As to the risk of slippage, it is determined far more by surgical technique and band type than by a liquid diet, although vomiting in the early stages is not helpful. But the research shows a very significant drop in slippage using the pars flaccida technique for instance- the slippage rates drop from around 8-10% to around 2%. Also, the 4.5 cc band is really too small, and is not being used any longer in Europe- they have found the larger bands have better slippage and erosion rates. It seems to me as long as your are not gagging or vomiting and are well able to be cautious and a good listener to your body, there is no reason not to 'follow your instincts'.

All these other people also have good ideas and more experience than I do, but I notice one thing from your description: You said when you eat the pain comes. This means you probably do not have a one-time event, like something stuck or a stitch slipped. You are having some problem with eating. I decided soemthing about the surgery etc, maybe just eating less, made my stomach very prone to be acidy for a while. Actually it was probably all the pain relievers. In any case, I took Zantac religiously for a few days, and things improved a lot. I am still taking them as needed, but it is getting better. I did have to give up all caffeine. I seem to be too sensitive.

I got banded on the 23rd. I did have a lot of strong pains that went away when I took Zantac, so I decided they were acid stomach. It isn't the acid stomach feeling I had before the band; something has really changed. Now it is just pain. Oh- and I know the soft food mushie/ liquid thing is gospel around here, but my doctor said 'follow you instincts' and I have, with no problems at all. I am eating pretty much what I used to eat, although I chew more, and eat a lot less. I hope this helps! Good luck.

I went to France and paid Euro 4400 = ~$5500. That includes all hospital costs and the device. While I was there, I heard Belgium is substantially cheaper (maybe $1500 +). Of course you have to add in airfare, and probably some time in a hotel, but I think France is even cheaper than Mexico, and they have a more reputable health care system. I say the last about the system overall....I know there are some wonderful Mexican doctors and hospitals out there, it's just their system as a whole is not as strong.

I am no expert, but it really does not sound like something caused by the band, even though you have only noticed it after getting the band. Maybe some kind of hormone shift relating to the operation/ weight loss brought whatever this is on. It does sound sort of like the onset of menopause, but there are other things for sure that cause irregular periods. Have you scheduled an appt with a OBGYN?

Hello all, I haven't posted much hear pre-band, although I read everything and it really helped. So now I thought I should offer my bit. Comments on these first 12 days: 1) I am just back to work, and I wouldn't have minded longer. That 'you can go touring/ ride an airplane/ go to work' within the first days or week really was NOT true for me. The physical energy wasn't too bad, but there has been a lot of different sorts of pains post-op (mostly gas related). 2) It works for me EXACTLY like it is supposed to- I feel full on a small meal, and I stay full until the next one. I am amazed how my instincts have already started to kick in. I am taking the right amount of food, taking small bites, and chewing a lot without thinking much about it. Also eating slower. 3) I started back on real food by day 3 (Dr. Dargent said follow your instincts). Day 4 I had meat, and realized how much I had been craving it. I have expanded and now am eating just about everything I used to eat, with a few restrictions (I am avoiding Pasta and careful with bread). 4) I am right now down 8 pounds; 2.5 this week. It seems likely that won't last without a fill, but as long as I am losing, I won't be getting a fill. I still don't have anyone for after-care, so that is the next big hurdle. About the surgery itself: I went to France (4400 Euro- ~$5500), which is cheaper than Mexico! The poeple in that hospital did not speak much English, but they were very nice. The doctor, Dr. Dargent, has done over 1500 bands, and publishes regularly in medical journals. I was very impressed with him and the French medical system, which I have found out is one of the top 3 national medical systems in the world (the USA is down in the low 30's!!!). They kept us in the hospital for 3 nights (2 days) and I felt that I needed that much time. I definitely enjoyed the morphine drip the first day. I did have a lot of gas pain post-op. While I was there, my roommate, who was also having the band put in, was a British woman. She said you could get the band in Belgium for 1000 pounds cheaper than France! I can't believe it- that would be about $1800 less. She said Belgium was where the band really started being done. I never heard anything like this in my researching, but she was a nurse, so I suppose she knew what she was talking about. Oh well! That's my news.

Anyone know of any fill doctors in New England for those of us who got the band abroad? Most of the doctors and clinics aren't interested unless you start with them from minute one.