ELENATION

My girls are now 14 and 16 and they didn't see the Passion either when it came out, they were too young, it would've been very hard on them, I did see it, and as a Christian it was hard on me too, but I could handle it, now my daughters have asked me to watch it and I think it's ok now, Schindler's list as well, they were small back then, but I think they are now ready, they are pretty mature for their age, so I think they can watch both movies now, with me there though... Gadget, being as sensitive as you are, I can tell you that The Passion is extremely hard to watch, I cried the entire time, so I think you are better of not watching it.

Hey Green! girl I'm happy to see you always! I've been thinking about you! and yes, I agree with your post, i makes sense to me too.:cursing:

Yes, another good point Gadget, some people may say they are atheists, but they really are anti-christians... and of course, I'm not referring to anyone here either, but it does make sense.. same way some people hide behind religions to hate and do evil, some people hide behind atheism to hate Christians as well..

Read that book! actually recently when my oldest girl was reading it! extremely interesting to say the least!

There! I think you nailed it! it's like the ex-smoker symdrome....

I agree that hostility comes from both sides, I've seen it from both sides in forums, in my personal life I have only encountered it once, I used to work with a guy who was an atheist, he was rude most of the times, not liked by almost anyone, including the bosses, gee, he ended up getting fired, I'm sure that had nothing to do with his personal lack of belief at all, it was just his personality, he used to start political and religious conversations all the time at work, which is not the greatest idea, and he always proclaimed he was an atheist and lashed at Christians, never once I heard him say anything against any other religion, I once asked him why the hostility against Christians specifically? and he said "religions are evil, they have been responsible for much of human misery" and I said, but you always bring up just Christians, I suppose you feel the same about every religion, his answer was "I hate all religions, but CHristianity is on the top of my list" I left it there, he was a very angry person and it wasn't worth it to get into a fight with him, even though I admit that the comment did bother me.... I am sure that not all atheists feel that way, so the atheism vs religion discussion ending up most of the times about atheism/christianity could be because it's one of the most common religion here and therefore that is the one that atheists hear about all the time? and also because since there are many Christians, those are the ones who enter into such discussions with atheists, so maybe as Christians we perceive it as hostility..? I don't know.... just saying...

Unless I missed other posts, I was the one talking about consequences, so yes I thought you were talking to me, if you werent, then I apologize, keep your "jabs" at me to yourself because frankly they are not welcomed by me, I'm sure other people would LOVE them... you think I may be "somewhat confused"?? with your posts I am at times... I will say this politely, as I already said, I don't care to engage in any type of debate with you particularly, or conversation, or pretty much any interaction, you are free to keep addressing my posts , there is nothing I can do about it, so if yet that's what you want, then knock yourself out, but know that I won't be answering , not interested, but please don't take it personally. THank you.

I agree, I'm dissapointed on all four.... I LOVED Jason's personality, then again, they are there to win a signing competition... and he wasn't good last night.... at this stage of the competition to forget the lyrics? not good... Syesha was ok, but I've never been a big fan, her Tina TUrner's version sounded ok, but it looked like she was trying to immitate Tina... I dunno.... her second song was good I thought... Cook was ok, I'm also not a big fan, but he did good and little David A.... I really don't like him, he always does these slow songs that he can pull better since he has good vocals, but I can't imagine him as the American Idol and selling millions of records.... he can't move, sure he could be trained later on I guess... but I guess I just don't care for him.... I have a feeling that the two finalists are going to be the two Davids....

FYI I found statistics showing evidence of the contrary of what you just said, and compare harsher laws with creationism/hell is not accurate since hell applies only to religious people, and I was talking generally. And please, please ,please KNOW that I was not backsliding on you, simply made a comment that happened to have something to do with something you said, that was all, to avoid confrontation with you, I will not comment on anything you say again, it's not a problem for me at all, actually I think it will be a pleasure, please refrain from commenting on my posts as well. Thank you.

Yeah, I know what you mean, I will dare to say that I can determine right from wrong on my own pretty well too.... or at least most of the times....LOL! but like you said consequences are a factor, IMHO a big factor, not everyone is raised by parents that offer decent values and good morals, so all they have is consequences to stop them.... of course, some people don't stop at nothing, at all.... I certainly hope that is the minority of people.

I teach my children right from wrong and I sure explain to them that (example) muder is wrong because you are taking someone's life and we don't have the right to do that and that person's family will suffer if you do it, and because it's cruel, and I go on and on about many reasons why murder is wrong and I make it clear to them of course, and also about any other wrong doings, but consequences are definitely important , not only that, but I do think that they have a big impact on people's behaviors, imagine if everyone was going around knowing that there are no consequences for their actions, in this case their wrong actions.... sometimes morals would stop some people, but sometimes even when morals were not taught, knowing the consequences can be very powerful to stop them from committing a crime, serious or minor crimes, they may not stop everyone, but I'm sure it would stop many, in fact because sometimes the law is not enforced strong enough and some people go in and out of jail with very little consequences, they don't care anymore and they keep braking the law, I say that makes this world a scary place for sure...now if there were stronger laws/consequences, I bet they will make many people think about it twice.... and besides, when morals lack, consequences are there to remind us what to do or not do.

WOW BJean, what a story...sure I can see how the little girl's family was bitter, but you can't help but feel bad for everything that happened to your boss, the whole thing was really sad, actually one good thing is that he is resting in peace now... and again, thanks for sharing this story, it touched my heart.

OMG! I felt like crying, what a sad story... I mean, just unbelievable... I do feel bad for him because obviously he drank to medicate himself, plus I strongly believe that alcoholism is an illness, and then the incident with the little girl...who I feel horrible for and her family, and then after everything he already went through, he had to endure this also... I believe his heart was broken too... where his body injuries the reason he died? was he very sick? oh how terrible.... Was is ever determined if he was indeed drinking while he was driving that day? Oh Lord, what a story... I can only imagine having to testify....thank you for sharing this..:thumbup:

No, it's not offensive to me at all, even if we don't see eye to eye on it, that's besides the point, one important thing is to know and be able to trust the candidate, regardless of what party is, but that's the thing, it's so hard after you start finding out about their skeletons in their closet, I know you can't believe everything and I don't , from the ads or just in general but there are some things that you just can't ignore and will make you doubt inevitable... but that won't prevent me from voting though.. I thought I agreed with my boss's position and I even believe that there is still honesty to him, but sure it's confilcting when I hear them talking out of both sides of their mouths. I agree that it does matter who the president is for the same reasons that you mentioned, but sure what party dominates congress extremely important, so it's not all just the President. I would never consider not voting, you are right about that too. It must have been kind of a sweet and sour experience to work for your boss who you agreed with politically, but his personal life was affected by alcoholism, he probably could've done a much better job if he was handling it all by himself and sober, so to see that must be conflicting too...ugh!

I could've written this post myself, only you have had a lot more experience than I have, but it's true, it's better to be in a dark about some of the character issues that my boss has... but sometimes it was hard, you couldn't help listening... like when I heard two conversations in a row he was having with two different people on the phone, where he was assuring one person that he was backing him up as the republican candidate for a position, and right after that, on the next conversation with someone else, I heard when he re-assured the opposite democrat candidate for the same position that he will be backing him 100%... I just could never imagine him having that character flaw, I know, naive from me... ugh! and yes, the only time he jumped was when his constituents made noise..just like you said, gee.... it does make you not want to vote abain, but you are right, we at least have that power and if we don't at least contribute that way, then things can get REALLY ugly, just completely agree... I don't know much about political games or anything, so I can't bring such great insight on this topic, but what I've seen and heard while I've worked here is sometimes dissapointing and makes you wonder what's going on on the BIG presidential elections...scary... but nope, I'm not giving up....:thumbup:

I have to completely agree with you, I think that some start out with good intentions and then they get cut up in the race and the whole winning thing and they get dirty and nasty....I personally have lost some faith in politicians, yes of course I vote and I have my favorites and all, but sometimes is sickening... I work for the mayor of a town in Illinois, I've worked for him before he became mayor and he was always so passionate , I always thought he had good honest intentions and I think he still does, but after almost 6 years, I've seen and heard things that have shocked me, I've witnessed his first election and now he is getting ready for re-election and the whole process gets brutal, I've seen him behave in ways that are out of character for him, or at least I thought so... his campaign manager comes across like a very cold mean person , they do whatever it takes to win...and this is just for a little mayor position.... I can only imagine for President of the US....:confused:

Oh gee, Rain your comments were too funny and actually pretty darn accurate!:thumbup: My favorite is gone, John Michaels... but from the ones that are left, I like Jason and I wish hed win... I like his laid back personality and his choices of songs in the past have been different and I like that , even though I didn't like him this week, I think he was pretty weak...but he is still my favorite of the ones left... Syesha too theatrical...Brooke I didn't think she was ready...her voice is not bad, but she is so nervous and showed it all the time and her behavior looked ackward to me sometimes.... I think David Cook is going to win... the judges praise him big time and I understand that he has a big fan base, he is not my favorite, he is all right, but despite of being known for being "original" I actually don't think he is, I can always see the cute pop song with a rock arrangement coming from him... it's just so predictible and his voice is ok I guess but nothing to write home about... David A, oh gee what can I say... he has a good voice obviously, but he seems so insecure, I think it's because of his age, poor thing... hate the gasping for air, but I do feel bad if it's due to asthma of course, if it's just a habit, he needs to get rid of that, he still does some lip licking once in a while, but that has gotten better..., but in my opinion, he is painful to watch... I think will be the runner up, but he needs major counseling and I'm sure he will sound better when his songs are done in a recording studio... and hopefully will look better in a music video, but live? ewk!

Gadget, firstly I must comment on your avatar picture! You are just beautiful!:wub: and I do agree, I have teenage girls that already ask many questions about ...well, pretty much everything.... and I always try to give them an objective answer on every issue, but there is some garbage out there, tv, movies and books that I don't think they are mature enough to understand them and if they are exposed to them, they could have an effect on them and not necessarily a positive one, so it's my job as a mom to guide them and protect them, it would affect me very much if they abandoned God one day, but after they become adults I may not be able to do anything about it, but while they are children I still have the power to do something, so I try, and I must say that I'm not referring to this particular movie though, which my children didn't even mention it or weren't interested on it, but I'm just generally speaking, my kids have watched Harry Potter, they don't really like the movies much, but they watched a couple of them, when they did, they were able to understand the fiction in them and I could explain to them that whatever message they may have gotten from them wasn't real and it was clear to me that they wouldn't have been influenced by those movies, they were ready to watch them and I was there too, however, atheism is not fiction, it's real and the whole debate between religion and atheism is very complex and frankly I don't think that it's appropriate for a child, IMHO, but again, I'm not referring to this movie, I don't know much about it....

I don't necessarily think that people are afraid of atheism, I think that many religious parents prevent their kids from learning about it in an effort to keep the child in the religious path, considering that children are easily influenced by pretty much everything, book, movie, etc... I would think that parents wouldn't be outraged if their grown up children learned about it, just my opinion... I personally don't see the point on the protests, in fact they bring more attention to the movie/book... totally pointless

Sorry Luluc:sad: I forgot exactly what you said and realized it now, I still think you did bring up a good point in that post though. And I still think that the "what ifs" are good to consider and discuss.. Yes, this thread seems to never die... I was away for a few days and it's still alive and kicking...

I hear you, I know what you mean BJean, what I was thinking is that a few days ago I posted that in my opinion, if we all from both sides could agree when life begins, then that would be the key to pretty much end the whole debate because if both sides could agree with that, neither the pro-choice side would want to end a life when it's proven to them that it is a human being, nor the pro-life side would have a problem with an abortion having proof that life begins at... say 12 weeks, or 20 weeks... or whatever the case might be, (that was just an example) and I remember when I posted that ,I thought that I was right on, but Luluc brough up the point of the "what ifs" which she thought would come into play even if both sides could agree on when life begins... "what ifs" such as rape, or incest.... which I thought it was a very good point, so that's why I thought the the "what ifs" are important, I think they help not to miss any detail/points.

I agree that we could be more tolerant towards each other when debating this issue, as it is so personal and our emotions get involved easily. As far as going into the "what ifs" I don't see anything wrong with that, the "what ifs" are addressed by both sides all the time and I believe they actually provide additional information to all the dynamics of this issue and on BOTH sides. "What ifs" are necessary in any debate in my opinion.

I have to agree with Plain, changing our attitudes and setting a good example for the next generations is the key to eliminate racism, focusing on the past is not going to help, we have been doing that for too long already and it just keeps the wounds opened, and I don't mean forget what happened, but focusing in the present and what we can do to change it, if we want healing we need to make a change , make a difference now and in the future.

This is no pity party at all!, you need to vent in a moment like this! I'm so sorry, and please know that I'm praying for you, the good thing is that you went for a physical and they were able to find it now on time, please keep us updated.