ELENATION

YOu know, I never said that "you " said to seat down and talk with Bin Laden, I was just trying to make a point... and the lesson that I believe we have taught to terrorists were taught while we were trying to accomplish other goals... so "the price" paid was for many other reasons.. I see that this is taking us no where, we don't agree, I don't see things the way you do, you may feel the way you do from your stand point, based on what you have seen on the news or heard through others, or read, I'm not sure, I guess we all feel we are right...I do think that your feelings are noble and we both and most, not all, but most do want what's best for everyone and we believe in different ways to find the solutions ,I feel the way I do because I lived through a regime like Sadam's , I was there, suffering along with my family and friends, and I have a feeling that if you would've been there with me, you would feel like I do, but who knows.... I don't think I'm right or wrong, I know that what I feel is based on the truth because I lived it... and the price is never to high to pay for freedom from opression, it seems to me that you believe you are right and that's all there is to it, but maybe I'm wrong.... maybe we are both very headstrong... This statement "So why should we trust him? Why should we believe that the agenda he presents to the world is his real agenda? Don't you ever wonder at all about what's really going on? Do you feel that you would be a bad person if you ask the hard questions? Do you feel that he should be held accountable for the lost lives and limbs and property that has happened in Iraq? Why do you think that the horrors or 9/11 justify what we have done in Iraq? It has not given us the results that he promised. He just has not - no matter how much we wish that it were true. But people believe that he wanted it to be true so it's okay" I really don't want to dignify with an answer.... I'm sorry... Have a good day.

L8Bloomr, Wassa, Derrick...and I know others...but I can't remember all their names...

I completely disagree with you... and because the actions, lives lost, or "bombs" have not led to the capture of Bin Laden, we should have never taken ANY action? or should we stop now? so we took actions, and haven't had a result capturing Binladen, we should've quit it all? ther is something called persistance... we keep trying... Because YOU say that the administration has not been correct and some, and even if you want to say a lot of people around the world "think" that the administration has been wrong, it's not necessarily the truth... people around the world? the europeans...? most are socialist , that explains it... and besides, I'm not terrible concerned with what the rest of the world thinks of us, I've said this before and I'll say it again, the US has always been a target for many to envy our country, therefore hate our country... we help so much around the world, but still it's never enough for some... I do think that our actions have shown a few lessons to terrorists.... But maybe if we sit down and try to talk and negotiate and communicate with Sadam(when he was alive) and with Castro and with Chavez, well, that should work.... I'm sure because they are such civil individuals...why wouldn't work? why not trying to find Bin Laden and sit down and have a talk with him too? hey, aren't we all human beings that should understand how to communicate and learn to get along? I'm sure that will teach them a lesson, not just to them but to terrorists as well... And the reasons that you believe that theare are still some americans supporting our president are not accurate, just because you think that way doesn't mean it's true, I personally don't support him just because of that. I assure you. You are welcome, I certainly have much compassion, My father almost lost his life when he served this country, so I should know a little bit about compassion for our heroes, my own father was one of them.

I'll add that the lives that are lost and the sacrifice that our military who are truly our heroes touches me deeply as my father was a veteran of WWII, he was also injured, and he was also proud, so very proud to serve this country, and yes he was born in Cuba, but lived here at the time and loved this country very much and volunteered. I do feel the pain of the lives that have been lost in wars...very close in my heart.

Interesting how you say that until we human beings learn to communicate with each other... In my opinion, Sadam Hussein may have looked human, but inside is not... animals have a lot more care and compassion than he ever did, so the "we human beings" just doesn't work with these monsters... how many times was asked from Sadam to comply with the UN? did he behaved like a human being and did it? NO... I personaly don't agree with negotiating with dictators or terrorists, it's totally worthless, a complete waste of time, I've seen it over and over... those people are savages, how do we negotiate with savages? impossible... Until we are allowed freedom to live our lives on the soul we were born? that would be great, but it wasn't happening in Iraq, it;s not happening in Cuba, Venezuela and other countries... is it because of the US? or Bush? NO, it's because the dictators that are ruling there.. so that's also not an option available.. all the freedom talk that you did sounds great, but they are not real options in some cases like Iraq, Cuba, Venezuela, etc... Are you really asking me if we should occupy Cuba, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I think you knew the answer! That would be such a blessing for the people of Cuba and they will appreciate it and many in the military serving for the US will perform their duty gladly and do it, our heroes that are in Iraq now are in the military because they wanted to be, they were not forced to... and most are happy to be serving their country, even if that involves helping another country in distress... I don't think that war is the answer in every case, of course not, but sometimes, it is the only answer...and the lives that are lost from our country and others represent freedom, a better life, a future for many, it's a huge sacrifice, but it's also noble.. We tried to get Bin Laden, we keep trying.....do you doubt that we did try and still are trying? unfortunately things don't go always the way we plan or want, but please let's not blame our country, or our leaders for not trying and doing their job. Do I care so much about our "reputation" among some countries in the middle east? not really, because they were our enemies before and will continue to be... I don't think they represent more of a threat for the US now than they did before... and no it isn't over, it will be over when THEY end their violence, ignorance, fanatic ways and craziness, until them if we have to keep fighting them, we should. I also rather we fight them there than in our own country... I wish that a peaceful solution was available and realistic with some of these dictators and groups, but unfortunately sometimes it's just not possible. Thank you for feeling sympathetic with the oppressed people in the world.

Thank you, as a Chritian I know you are right...I'm not 100% there yet, but I keep trying... blessing to you!

Exactly! yet some believe that we "attacked" Iraq, declared "war on Iraq" "devastated their country" and we did all that for no good reason, just because we have an "evil" president that is also inept...yeah sure.... we did all that, people in Iraq had it so nice , easy, calm and peaceful there before.... how could we? give me a break, can they really and I mean REALLY look at reality, that was NOT the case, we went there for the right reasons, we went there with good intentions, we went there to do what we were supposed to do.

Thank you much, yes, we have it made here, we really do and many don't realize it, I would trade the first 14 years of my life and my family and many cubans I know would too with the Iraqi people as they are now, at least there is a light at the end of the tunnel for them, a hope for a better future, cubans living there as of now can't see any light.... it's been close to 50 years of oppression... of killing innocent people, of people trying to escape the prison that it is living in Cuba and dying in the process.. if someone hasn't lived in my shoes, then please don't go there, no amout of books read or research will give you the real truth and horror of living under oppression of a dictator and the huge sacrifice that is done is worth it and appreciated by the people in those countries, I personally know people that have served in Iraq that testify how grateful and appreciative most people in Iraq are for us getting involved and freeing them from Sadam... THese Hollywood people supporting Chavez and Castro are hypocrites, fools, ignorant and I can go on and on... they are out of touch with reality, they are millionaires and they don't have to worry about financial stability, they can travel all over the world as they please, unlike Iraqi people, or cubans or venezuelans, not onlyu they can travel by when they do it, they also bash our government and leaders and they get away with it, you don't see anybody from those oppressed countries travelling, they are not allowed to leave the country, and they can't even disagree with those dictators, not even inside their own country or they will be killed... what the heck those celebrities know? absolutely nothing.... they think that because they are famous they can say stupidities and people are going to listen and believe them, well, I don't, because I know the truth....

oh gee, I have to sign off now, I won't be able to sleep tonight....somebody let me know asap....

very valid points...interesting... it's definitely sticky...

and you better let me know , I'm so freaking curious now............

Yes indeed....totally agree!

I think that's hypocritical and unrealistic and ultimately punishing that girls instead of the actual criminal...I'm sorry, but I couldn't deal with that...

I know this was not a reply directly to me but I'll add this anyway... Yes, it was media hype!!!!!!!! there is always media hype!!!!!!!! I definitely believe that! I also don't think that we declared war on "Iraq", we went there to get that maniac out, to make sure there were no WMD, he may have dipossed them before we went, it was not 100% guaranteed.. Restore the peace in Iraq? was there peace in Iraq before we went there? while Sadam was there? I don't think so.... Sadam as we all know was a dictator and had the people of Iraq oppressed, he killed his own people over and over, what kind of peace did they have? I think that the "mess" that they may have now is nothing compared to the attrocities that they had to live under Sadam's dictatorship... I know it was not "just" Clinton who was unable , sorry, scratch "unable" and let me say gutless for not getting rid of him long time ago and long before we did it now... I'll throw this in also... The way you put it in your post and this is with all due respect and my opinion... but it reminds me of my native country of Cuba.. Castro, another dictator, very much brutal too, that continues to commit attrocities against the cuban people is still there and as a cuban that lives here now and lived there for 14 years, I wish that George Bush would've been there and would've gone in and taken that monster out, like we did in Iraq, my family and I and friends and many, many people I know would've appreciated it very much and would have been willing to risk their lives, their homes whatever it took to get rid of Castro, and believe me, many have died trying to get rid of him, or trying to live the island, dying from dehydration due to exposure on their drifting in the Caribbean for days, if people are willing to do that , don't you think they will be willing to put up with the consequences of an invasion that ultimately will free them from monsters like Sadam and Castro and a few others...I would think so...I also hope nobody says that Castro is not that bad and not to be compared with Sadam... because that would be a lie, in my opinion, Sadam, Castro and those few others should be put out. period, at any risk... even if we have to suffer consequences because they are murdering innocent people every day and I'm aware that it wasn't just in Iraq and Cuba, it happens in other places and they all should be stopped, it's unfortunate that we have to go into their countries sometimes to stop them, I'm sure we all wish there were other easier ways of doing it, but sometimes there aren't and we must do what must be done...

I never got money for any occasion.... my parents thought it was impersonal.... and I kind of feel the same with my kids....now if I could pick my own gifts, I would go for the money, I love to get a gift card and then buy whatever I want.... so all of you out there that wish to send me a gift, please just ask for my address, cash, gift cards, all accepted! hehehe... I want to hear about the absence of presents from Santa, that's interesting... hhhhhhmmm

Very true.... and I feel in my heart that I want to be able to forgive and let it go completely, but if I still remember it, I say to myself that I probably didn't "really" forgive, but as time goes by I realize that those that I have forgiven I don't really remember much either, so maybe I'm beginning to forget.... it's just a process and it just doesn't happen over night... I don't feel the desire of being close to those people again or be their close friend, but I don't want revenge, I don't wish them any harm, and I start to feel indiference... which leads to forgetting.... but aren't we supposed to love everyone as well? as Christians? so forgiving and letting go, but at the same time not making an effort to love that person is not exactly Christ like....right? You are so right, it's not an easy task.... and I don't feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be regarding this issue... I don't see it a black and white... it's complicated for me, I wish it wasn't... thank you much, very nice everything you said. Elena

I hear you.... the part about someone hurting me or my children is so important to me, if they hurt my children, I pretty much lose it.... I admire those that can forgive even the worst offenses, like killing your child...like that lady that I mentioned that was in Oprah... bless her heart..

I feel like you, but my kids always get a little too much because I feel bad and I look at their cute faces....(they are 13 and 15...go figure..lol) and I melt....I'm terrible.... I agree with Wheetsin though....maybe teach them a lesson at more neutral time...?

Good morning, Not that it was extremely important or anything, but I was wondering why a new thread that I posted yesterday afternoon is gone this morning.... I know it was there and I even got an answer, but this morning it was just gone... anybody knows why or how does that happen? Thanks,:cry Elena

Thank you much!

Hi there, My thread came back, it was the one about forgiving...YAY! so it's all good.... thanks for your help.

LOL!..it took me a minute to get it... Consider that I used to be blonde for years.....

It's on!!!!!!!

ya think? LOL! well, I think that everything is possible..... so I'm watching you.....

well in that case I think Derrick will be tarred and feathered..... we all know how Derrick wants us all to think and be like him.... he may not admit it, but he is a little fundie at heart......hehehehe.....